Koh Tao murders: 2 DNA profiles from alleged murder weapon do not match defendants' DNA

[metisdead]

A post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

A troll post has been removed as well.

[BritTim]

Wouldn't it be great if they found out who's DNA was on the hoe besides Hannah's...Ain't the B2's, so whose is it. If Hannah's was on it the actual killer will definitely be on it...As for Dave's demise, other stuff was involved.

We need 'real' police work here, the technology is out there, even the technology to have a 'good' look at video stuff........

Touch DNA of both Hannah and David was on the hoe's handle. Hannah's blood (but not David's blood) was also found. There was also a partial DNA profile of another male insufficient for identification.

By far the most likely explanation of the DNA evidence is that the hoe was not the murder weapon. On the contrary, it appears Hannah and David were trying to use the hoe to defend themselves. When the attack was over, the hoe was used to mutilate Hannah's head and make it appear as though it was the murder weapon.

If Hannah's clothing resurfaces, and is subjected to DNA analysis, it may reveal the DNA profiles of one or more of the attackers. This is not certain if, as now seems possible, there was no actual rape.

[balo]

BritTIm "By far the most likely explanation of the DNA evidence is that the hoe was not the murder weapon. On the contrary, it appears Hannah and David were trying to use the hoe to defend themselves. "

I agree , they would pick up anything on the beach to defend themselves if they were under attack . But was it David or Hannah that used the hoe, both their DNAs were found on the handle ?

[metisdead]

Another post in violation of fair use policy has been removed:

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[BritTim]

BritTIm "By far the most likely explanation of the DNA evidence is that the hoe was not the murder weapon. On the contrary, it appears Hannah and David were trying to use the hoe to defend themselves. "

I agree , they would pick up anything on the beach to defend themselves if they were under attack . But was it David or Hannah that used the hoe, both their DNAs were found on the handle ?

So they went to a quiet spot on the beach and took along a hoe in case peepers appeared........

If I were attacked by anyone I would try and relieve them of the weapon, my DNA would be on it.........

The hoe was on the beach. Assuming the attack was initiated between AC Bar and where the bodies were eventually found, the victims would have have been close to where the hoe was left the night before. I find it quite plausible that the hoe was a weapon of opportunity used by Hannah and David to try to defend themselves.

[Basil B]

All they need to do is bring in some real police and this would solved in a weekend.

Most of the evidence has been so badly contaminated not even Ms Maples could solve this one now.

After the trial, what I hope for is a review of "Criminal Evidence" and how the police work.

what is needed is a professional police force, with professional crime scene examiners and independent third party agency to manage prosecutions.

[Trisha61]

Jersey Evening Post (PUBLISHED: October 2, 2015 12:00 pm) :- Never let a person sit alone': Memorial bench for David Miller unveiled on north coast.

See jerseyeveningnews.com for photographs, as Moderator has taken down the pictures that I posted. Sorry I do not know how to embed a link from my iPad.

[thailandchilli]

BritTIm "By far the most likely explanation of the DNA evidence is that the hoe was not the murder weapon. On the contrary, it appears Hannah and David were trying to use the hoe to defend themselves. "

I agree , they would pick up anything on the beach to defend themselves if they were under attack . But was it David or Hannah that used the hoe, both their DNAs were found on the handle ?

So they went to a quiet spot on the beach and took along a hoe in case peepers appeared........

If I were attacked by anyone I would try and relieve them of the weapon, my DNA would be on it.........

The hoe was on the beach. Assuming the attack was initiated between AC Bar and where the bodies were eventually found, the victims would have have been close to where the hoe was left the night before. I find it quite plausible that the hoe was a weapon of opportunity used by Hannah and David to try to defend themselves.

Hannah's DNA was found on a cigg butt. The butts were found by the log which is located just a very short distance from the small garden plot where the hoe was kept. She was within just a few meters of the hoe before something sinister started to happen.

[thailandchilli]

Jersey Evening Post (PUBLISHED: October 2, 2015 12:00 pm) :- Never let a person sit alone': Memorial bench for David Miller unveiled on north coast.

See jerseyeveningnews.com for photographs, as Moderator has taken down the pictures that I posted. Sorry I do not know how to embed a link from my iPad.

Never let a person sit alone': Memorial bench for David Miller unveiled on north coast

The bench carries the inscription ‘Never let a person sit alone’, with a plaque showing the location of a star that has been named after him.

http://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2015/10/02/never-let-a-person-sit-alone-memorial-bench-for-david-miller-unveiled-on-north-coast/

[thailandchilli]

The hoe was on the beach. Assuming the attack was initiated between AC Bar and where the bodies were eventually found, the victims would have have been close to where the hoe was left the night before. I find it quite plausible that the hoe was a weapon of opportunity used by Hannah and David to try to defend themselves.

Hannah's DNA was found on a cigg butt. The butts were found by the log which is located just a very short distance from the small garden plot where the hoe was kept. She was within just a few meters of the hoe before something sinister started to happen.

So BIG Dave needed a weapon and failed with it to take out two weeee Burmese guys. Naaaaaah, not two Burmese guys, a bigger problem......

Maybe the B2 were not there, Hannah and David are reported to have left the AC bar between 3 and 4am. The B2 claim they left the beach about 2am if I remember correctly. As far as I can make out there was some sort of gathering there and its from this that something then followed. For sure there was more than 2 killers

I do not believe the DNA on the other cigg butts belonged to one of the B2.

[AGareth2]

" they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted,
They fell with their faces to the foe."

[BritTim]

Hannah's DNA was found on a cigg butt. The butts were found by the log which is located just a very short distance from the small garden plot where the hoe was kept. She was within just a few meters of the hoe before something sinister started to happen.

The cigarette with Hannah's DNA is one of those interesting items where we have no idea of the true facts. It appears the RTP wanted to tie the Burmese kids to Hannah by claiming such a cigarette existed, and I believe it is one of the several important pieces of physical evidence "used up". In fact, there is no more evidence of a cigarette butt with Hannah's DNA than there is of the semen samples. The prosecution decided not to use it, as they wanted to portray the crime as a sneak attack by people Hannah and David did not know were there. As I recall, the cigarette DNA evidence presented in court only spoke about the accused's DNA on the cigarette's (proving them guilty of smoking) and did not claim Hannah's DNA on the cigarette butts.

Personally, I think the prosecution has "used up" all the evidence pointing to the Burmese kids' guilt. I think, however, there is clear evidence that is not "used up" of a deliberate attempt to frame the Burmese kids for a crime they did not commit.

[Fat Haggis]

BritTIm "By far the most likely explanation of the DNA evidence is that the hoe was not the murder weapon. On the contrary, it appears Hannah and David were trying to use the hoe to defend themselves. "

I agree , they would pick up anything on the beach to defend themselves if they were under attack . But was it David or Hannah that used the hoe, both their DNAs were found on the handle ?

Perfectly good explanation, apart from the small detail that these types of Hoes are not randomly lying on a beach in the wee small hours of the morning.

The final moments of their lives may have been, but it's becoming increasingly more obvious that the initial assault began a good distance from the final crime scene.

There are several police reports that Hannah had managed to run upwards of 50 metres from where her body was discovered, her and David were more than likely accosted/attacked on the pathway, and not on the beach, and the focus has always been where the bodies were found.

Big mistake, or done on purpose, there's 2 crime scenes, only one was ever investigated, as it appeared stage managed to fit into the RTP investigation.

The significance of the alleged report of hearing a commotion from the French girls would also tie in with the initial assault happening close to their accommodation.

Those who have been on Koh Tao should know this too.

The reports were dismissed and never investigated for a simple reason, it never fitted in with the original RTP "findings", anyone who has walked along that footpath towards the main pier also knows there's always some sort of construction going on, and lots of little houses too, a perfect place to grab something to defend yourself such as a hoe!!

You simply do NOT find such tools lying on a beach, the RTP and the prosecution would like people to believe this to be the case, but only the gullible would swallow this.

Nope, 2 crime scenes, one the focus of attention, the other carefully "tidied" up, to cover tracks, nothing presented by the RTP as a motive makes sense as to why the B2 went out their way to not just "rape and murder" two innocent lives, but to inflict such injuries on both victims, sorry but they would have seen literally thousands, if not, tens of thousands of beautiful female tourists during their time on Koh Tao, day in, day out, week in, week out, year on year out, and we are led to believe that that just randomly decided to rape and murder Hannah and David?

Nobody else see how far fetched this is? (Rhetorical question) I know many here have seen through the RTP and prosecutions versions of events, now let's hope the judges do too !!

[thailandchilli]

Hannah's DNA was found on a cigg butt. The butts were found by the log which is located just a very short distance from the small garden plot where the hoe was kept. She was within just a few meters of the hoe before something sinister started to happen.

The cigarette with Hannah's DNA is one of those interesting items where we have no idea of the true facts. It appears the RTP wanted to tie the Burmese kids to Hannah by claiming such a cigarette existed, and I believe it is one of the several important pieces of physical evidence "used up". In fact, there is no more evidence of a cigarette butt with Hannah's DNA than there is of the semen samples. The prosecution decided not to use it, as they wanted to portray the crime as a sneak attack by people Hannah and David did not know were there. As I recall, the cigarette DNA evidence presented in court only spoke about the accused's DNA on the cigarette's (proving them guilty of smoking) and did not claim Hannah's DNA on the cigarette butts.

Personally, I think the prosecution has "used up" all the evidence pointing to the Burmese kids' guilt. I think, however, there is clear evidence that is not "used up" of a deliberate attempt to frame the Burmese kids for a crime they did not commit.

Sure, we only have online media reports of Hannah's DNA being found on the butts so its not enough to make anything other than speculation regards the implications if it were true. The crux of the matter is that its now impossible to confirm that, or any other dna on the butts because they apparently no longer exist according to Dr Pornthip who was not given them by the RTP to test.

What is more than media reports however is the hair found in Hannah's hand, another key piece of evidence thats gone missing.

[Fat Haggis]

Perhaps the RTP forensics teams just binned the blonde hair as they kept trying to get DNA from it, and no results were coming through............because it was from a blonde wig

[AGareth2]

or the blonde hair came from the facebook cop?

[StealthEnergiser]

Koh Tao Policeman that testified , Loves wearing Blonde and Black wigs , Sings and plays Guitar and also works as a DJ .

https://www.facebook.com/jarkrapan.kaewkhao

[Trisha61]

Koh Tao Policeman that testified , Loves wearing Blonde and Black wigs , Sings and plays Guitar and also works as a DJ .

Jakkrapan.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/jarkrapan.kaewkhao

Is this the Fellow, who for some strange reason is " finally learning to love myself' perchance?

[expat_4_life]

Public urged to monitor the Koh Tao murder trial by Burmese investigators

How can anyone "monitor" the progress of a trial when the justice system does not allow transcripts?

[ronwparker]

The RTP are infamous for incomptetence, many crimes and corruption-I never thought these two Burmese were other than scapegoats as most Thai's hate the Burmese!

[MockingJay]

If not even the defending legal team gets proper insight to a majority of the so-called "investigative evidence" utilized by the prosecution, how should the public "monitor" the trial or the proceedings? Is everyone involved now going completely bonkers?

[freedom4life]

"Public urged to monitor the Koh Tao murder trial by Burmese investigators"

do you think we've been doing? In fact, if it weren't for the public,corruption would of been much higher.

[fxe1200]

The scapes will be unscaped but no goats will EVER be found. More scapes maybe. The family responsible are far too high to be prosecuted.

It's obvious for me as I've lived here 30 years but in case you didn't know apporximately 200,000 people in Thailand are ABOVE the law - understand?

..do you mean people like Mon or Nomsod, or such?

[Briggsy]

I think many posters have misunderstood the announcement by Burmese investigators representing the Burmese government, taking it incorrectly at face value.

It appears, at face value, to be a message to the public, but it is, of course, chiefly a message to the Thai authorities.

This trial is now 100% a political trial. Everybody is aware there is no credible evidence linking the defendants to the crime. They are there as scapegoats. They were chosen because, as migrant Burmese unskilled workers, they are powerless and have no access to justice. Scapegoats are required as the real perpetrators are linked to a politically powerful patronage network which controls the local economy, local government and law enforcement in Surat Thani. This network provides a powerful support base for the current administration.

A reminder from the Burmese that a guilty verdict could negatively affect relations may well be sufficient to prevent a guilty verdict for the B2. The verdict will not be based on the evidence, only on political expedience.

[sambum]

Hannah's DNA was found on a cigg butt. The butts were found by the log which is located just a very short distance from the small garden plot where the hoe was kept. She was within just a few meters of the hoe before something sinister started to happen.

The cigarette with Hannah's DNA is one of those interesting items where we have no idea of the true facts. It appears the RTP wanted to tie the Burmese kids to Hannah by claiming such a cigarette existed, and I believe it is one of the several important pieces of physical evidence "used up". In fact, there is no more evidence of a cigarette butt with Hannah's DNA than there is of the semen samples. The prosecution decided not to use it, as they wanted to portray the crime as a sneak attack by people Hannah and David did not know were there. As I recall, the cigarette DNA evidence presented in court only spoke about the accused's DNA on the cigarette's (proving them guilty of smoking) and did not claim Hannah's DNA on the cigarette butts.

Personally, I think the prosecution has "used up" all the evidence pointing to the Burmese kids' guilt. I think, however, there is clear evidence that is not "used up" of a deliberate attempt to frame the Burmese kids for a crime they did not commit.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that Hannah didn't smoke - maybe a quote from her parents or friends. It's been mentioned before (on this thread or possibly a previous one) but I can't remember whether this was verified or not.

[joebrown]

me

Koh Tao Policeman that testified , Loves wearing Blonde and Black wigs , Sings and plays Guitar and also works as a DJ .

Jakkrapan.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/jarkrapan.kaewkhao

Does anyone know whether it was this policeman (or another policeman) who posted the crime scene pics on Facebook? Has the poster(s) been identified?

[realenglish1]

This is just another example of how corrupt police behave. Thailand needs real police not mafia police. The world is laughing at their behavior and I do hope these guys are found

not guilty But I worry that there are many people who want to save face rather than find out the truth

[Trisha61]

The more I think of this whole shameful performance, that masquerades as an investigation, the more I question the actions of the police department involved.

Can they really be so inefficient, unprofessional and nonchalant as they would have us believe? Or, is there another agenda being played out for all to see? Smoke and Mirror diversionary tactics in the hope that this case will be a drawn out affair, which may go to an appeals court and be dropped like a hot potato sometime in the future (as some posters have alluded to).

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Not to be confused with cabotage, the transport of goods or passengers between two points in the same country.

Sabotage is a deliberate action aimed at weakening a polity or corporation through subversion, obstruction, disruption, or destruction. In a workplace setting, sabotage is the conscious withdrawal of efficiency generally directed at causing some change in workplace conditions. One who engages in sabotage is a saboteur. Saboteurs typically try to conceal their identities because of the consequences of their actions.

Any unexplained adverse condition might be sabotage. Sabotage is sometimes called tampering, meddling, tinkering, malicious pranks, malicious hacking, a practical joke or the like to avoid needing to invoke legal and organizational requirements for addressing sabotage.

[Loeilad]

DNA/schmeeNA....it doesn't matter the trial is a farce and contravenes just about every concept of procedure and fairness - anyone in their right mind would thrown the whole thing out of court.

[joebrown]

The RTP are infamous for incomptetence, many crimes and corruption-I never thought these two Burmese were other than scapegoats as most Thai's hate the Burmese!

Sadly, we aren't talking just about incompetence here. If that were the case then a future investigation into the real murderers identity might be possible. It's quite apparent that a lot of basic investigative procedures weren't followed and evidence has been ignored, lost/manipulated or withheld, all with the aim of convicting the B2. The Thai police have a long well earned reputation for perverting the course of justice. It remains to be seen whether they have been successful in their corrupt endeavours. I certainly hope not!