Critics warn constitution crisis looms

[Lite Beer]

NEVER-ENDING REJECTIONS?
Critics warn constitution crisis looms
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK,
TANATPONG KONGSAI
THE SUNDAY NATION

BANGKOK: -- 'Cycle of charter rejections may keep the junta in power'

CRITICS of the military junta have warned that Thailand may be trapped in a never-ending cycle of drafting and rejecting a new charter because the public will keep on rejecting undemocratic drafts in a national referendum. And this cycle, they said, would deepen the political crisis.

The warning came as red-shirt co-leader Jatuporn Prompan challenged Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha, who is also leader of the National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO), to try to hang on to power indefinitely, while key member of the People's Democratic Reform Foundation (PDRF) Akanat Promphan insisted on having reform completed before a new election. Two panels discussing the future of Thailand's constitution took place simultaneously at Thammasat University and the Thai Journalists Association (TJA) yesterday.

At Thammasat, Piyabutr Saengkanokkul, a Thammasat law lecturer and Chaturon Chaisaeng, a former education minister and senior Pheu Thai member, warned of a vicious cycle where people would keep on rejecting junta-sponsored draft charters that are deemed undemocratic, thus indefinitely lengthening the NCPO and Prayut's stay in power and deepening the political chasm.

"The new draft may not be that different from the one rejected [by the junta-appointed National Reform Council on September 6]. Once such a charter is accepted in a referendum then it's very difficult or even impossible to amend," said Piyabutr, who is also a member of Nitirat group of legal experts. He added that any NCPO-sponsored draft will likely undermine the power of an elected government through various means. Piyabutr predicted that curbing elected politicians' authority under the new draft would be more sophisticated than the one rejected. "You can imagine the cycle of rejecting and redrafting of yet more draft charters and so there won't be an election and the [NCPO] will continually extend their stay in power," said Piyabutr, warning that people were not so stupid as to not see the motivation behind it.

"We're in a situation where we flee a tiger only to be confronted with a crocodile," the lecturer said, using a traditional Thai analogy.

"We're always facing this crossroad," said Chaturon, whose passports were revoked for repeated criticism of Prayut. "The choice is between bad and very bad as long as nothing is altered."

Piyabutr and other panellists proposed that the interim constitution be altered or annulled and the 1997 charter revived so a truly participatory and democratic drafting process of a new charter can be carried out.

Rangsiman Rome, a key member of the New Democracy Movement who organised the panel, said it was time for Prayut to step aside. "The NCPO has lost its legitimacy already ... It's time they stop meddling with the charter drafting process," he said.

At another panel hosted by the TJA, Jatuporn, a former Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) co-leader, challenged Prayut to try cling to power indefinitely and vowed that he would keep on rejecting junta-sponsored charter drafts as long as they were undemocratic.

"I don't care when an election will take place," Jatuporn said, now that election will only take place at least 20 months from now. "I don't care if General Prayut wants to try to stay in power forever."

Akanat, meanwhile, reiterated the PDRF's positions for seeing national reform completed before a new election. This, said Akanat, was because the PDRF do not trust elected politicians to carry out reform. He said the past had taught the people that the public will was always distorted by politicians and a quick return to elections would only produce an "ersatz democracy".

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Critics-warn-constitution-crisis-looms-30268688.html

-- The Nation 2015-09-13

[Jon Wetherall]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

[Baerboxer]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

Just like the previous regime were aiming to do. 2.2 trillion loan, mostly into their pockets.

An Amnesty for every crooked and corrupt politician and lackey, especially the big boss, for all their misdeeds.

That would've worked - not. As shown by the extent of the protests against such blatant corruption.

Nothing will change will the powers that be continue to play musical chairs among themselves.

[Srikcir]

To make the Thai people wait for the best constitution while enduring the loss of their sovereignty is like throwing a drowning person a ring bouy but telling them they cannot touch it.

[Now or Never]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

[oneday]

Don't look now, the crisis is already here. If they keep drafting undemocratic "Charter's" like the one their own appointed people just rejected then the junta will be in power for a long time. One begins to wonder if this isn't what the people in power wanted all along despite Mr. P's protestations that he wants to retire.

[Eric Loh]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

Just like the previous regime were aiming to do. 2.2 trillion loan, mostly into their pockets.

An Amnesty for every crooked and corrupt politician and lackey, especially the big boss, for all their misdeeds.

That would've worked - not. As shown by the extent of the protests against such blatant corruption.

Nothing will change will the powers that be continue to play musical chairs among themselves.

You assumed too much mate. Both your examples didn't materialized then but fully manifest now with the amnesty for the coup and the 3 T Baht off budget fundings. Different now that no protest allowed, not even an opinion. Things changed when the power is the military. Politicians don't stand a chance.

[waitforusalso]

Not that I ever believed a word from his mouth, now the blatant lies have been laid out for all to see. There are only a few obstinate apologists left now.

[MZurf]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

"..ignoring the constitution.."

And what exactly did the junta do with the constitution when it overthrew the legally elected government???

[Baerboxer]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

"..ignoring the constitution.."

And what exactly did the junta do with the constitution when it overthrew the legally elected government???

One side willfully ignores the law and constitution when it suits, and then tries to threaten and intimidate the courts when caught out, publicly saying it won't respect verdicts it doesn't like.

The other simply suspends them and changes whatever they like.

A legally elected government, in caretaker mode having dissolved parliament in response to mass protests, and that was openly controlled by a non elected criminal. To be replaced by a military junta.

And still, there are those who claim democracy only means having an election.

[hugh2121]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

But...But...But...Sutthep!!!

[tx22cb]

I thought the PM declared yesterday that criticism will not be tolerated and critics will be prosecuted?

[MaxLee]

Well, dear opposition supporters on both ends, we you get what we you deserve.....

[ramrod711]

At another panel hosted by the TJA, Jatuporn, a former Pheu Thai MP and red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) co-leader, challenged Prayut to try cling to power indefinitely and vowed that he would keep on rejecting junta-sponsored charter drafts as long as they were undemocratic.

This guy is a major part of the problem, enriching himself at the cost of his country. He should be making his statements from jail.

[FredNL]

Thai economy is already down the drain for almost 2 years.

My internet company is doing B2B here in Thailand (#1 in Thailand in e-Commerce solutions). Luckely we have many customers from over seas.

Even Thai government can't pay their bills on time. Yes, waiting for over 8 full months to get paid !!!

The e-Commerce and internet providers / suppliers in Thailand are losing Thai customers and orders by the day. We aren't the only ones that complain.

TOT, 3BB, CAT, Loxinfo, True and others are also complaining.

I also hear from main Thai distributors in luxury goods and medical supplies that there business is very low right now.

I already said it some 5 years ago. Thailand is living on a giant soap bubble. Expecting it to burst any moment this year.

And I've been right many times the last 40 years.

Edited September 13, 2015 by FredNL

[MZurf]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

"..ignoring the constitution.."

And what exactly did the junta do with the constitution when it overthrew the legally elected government???

One side willfully ignores the law and constitution when it suits, and then tries to threaten and intimidate the courts when caught out, publicly saying it won't respect verdicts it doesn't like.

The other simply suspends them and changes whatever they like.

A legally elected government, in caretaker mode having dissolved parliament in response to mass protests, and that was openly controlled by a non elected criminal. To be replaced by a military junta.

And still, there are those who claim democracy only means having an election.

It doesn't only mean that but it most definitively is a sine qua non, don't you agree?

[eldragon]

Unpeace. Throw away the keys.

[onelasttime]

I get the feeling that whilst Thailand ponders its own navel and endlessly wrestles with internal options that the rest of the world and S.E. Asia in particular will pass it by. I'm not a Thaksin lover.. far from it but he let the genie out of the bottle and for all of Mr. P's huffing and puffing it will never go back in. Meanwhile everyone wonders about the political landscape post when that which is inevitable and is not discussed comes to pass.

[Lunchbob]

Critics from certain places put the lime in the coconut. When you shake they take.

[smedly]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

just because Jutaporn opens his mouth does not reflect what the majority of Thai people think, he has no mandate to represent anyone, he is a self appointed leader of a movement whos support is somewhat unclear since they murdered children and gloated on stage, my opinion is they are no longer a consideration - JMO

[greenchair]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

Just like the previous regime were aiming to do. 2.2 trillion loan, mostly into their pockets.

An Amnesty for every crooked and corrupt politician and lackey, especially the big boss, for all their misdeeds.

That would've worked - not. As shown by the extent of the protests against such blatant corruption.

Nothing will change will the powers that be continue to play musical chairs among themselves.

Well, now that same loan has ballooned to more than 3 trillion. And guess what! !!

Nobody is allowed to check where the money will be spent or how it will be spent.

But we all rest easy, because the good people are now in charge. And since the economy is being managed sooooo well, you can be sure that 3 trillion will be spent wisely.

[mikemac]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

Just like the previous regime were aiming to do. 2.2 trillion loan, mostly into their pockets.

An Amnesty for every crooked and corrupt politician and lackey, especially the big boss, for all their misdeeds.

That would've worked - not. As shown by the extent of the protests against such blatant corruption.

Nothing will change will the powers that be continue to play musical chairs among themselves.

Well, now that same loan has ballooned to more than 3 trillion. And guess what! !!

Nobody is allowed to check where the money will be spent or how it will be spent.

But we all rest easy, because the good people are now in charge. And since the economy is being managed sooooo well, you can be sure that 3 trillion will be spent wisely.

Please tell me more about this 3 trillion baht loan. This is the first time I have heard of it.

Not doubting for one minute it is not real, but you can't be too careful these days.

[heybruce]

I get the feeling that whilst Thailand ponders its own navel and endlessly wrestles with internal options that the rest of the world and S.E. Asia in particular will pass it by. I'm not a Thaksin lover.. far from it but he let the genie out of the bottle and for all of Mr. P's huffing and puffing it will never go back in. Meanwhile everyone wonders about the political landscape post when that which is inevitable and is not discussed comes to pass.

Very true. Before Thaksin there were corrupt, incompetent governments that served a privileged minority in Bangkok. Thaksin gave Thailand a corrupt government that shared some of its largesse with the majority, and proved that that kind of government could consistently win elections. There will never again be an elected government that caters only to the Bangkok elite, which annoys them to no end.

The ideal is an honest, competent democratic government that delivers government services fairly and efficiently, but that doesn't seem to be under consideration.

[phutoie2]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

just because Jutaporn opens his mouth does not reflect what the majority of Thai people think, he has no mandate to represent anyone, he is a self appointed leader of a movement whos support is somewhat unclear since they murdered children and gloated on stage, my opinion is they are no longer a consideration - JMO

He still has a lot of influence. Thankfully your opinion counts for diddly squat.

[heybruce]

"Piyabutr and other panellists proposed that the interim constitution be altered or annulled and the 1997 charter revived so a truly participatory and democratic drafting process of a new charter can be carried out."

YES! Bring back the 1997 constitution for one election and an interim period, during which an elected government writes a new constitution to be submitted for a referendum. Keep the referendum simple--the choices to be either the 1997 constitution or the new one.

[MaxLee]

As long as influential personalities either politics or from highly influential families, don't see any serious punishments overdue, things will never change, no matter which party is in power.

[Baerboxer]

Yes, PTP just can't wait to get back into power and continue their record of gross incompetence, massive corruption, ignoring the constitution. terrorism etc etc etc.

"..ignoring the constitution.."

And what exactly did the junta do with the constitution when it overthrew the legally elected government???

One side willfully ignores the law and constitution when it suits, and then tries to threaten and intimidate the courts when caught out, publicly saying it won't respect verdicts it doesn't like.

The other simply suspends them and changes whatever they like.

A legally elected government, in caretaker mode having dissolved parliament in response to mass protests, and that was openly controlled by a non elected criminal. To be replaced by a military junta.

And still, there are those who claim democracy only means having an election.

It doesn't only mean that but it most definitively is a sine qua non, don't you agree?

Absolutely - it is an essential ingredient for all democracies. But, not the only one. There are many democratic forms of government i.e, they contain elections. But the rules and procedures are different.

The real democracies also make sure elected representatives follow the law and have checks and balances to safeguard them. Some such as Britain, America, etc will punish offenders. Others such as some African "democracies" and others are a little less transparent and more prone to corruption and exploitation by crooked politicians.

Thailand sadly seems to suffer from corrupt politicians exploiting the country for personal gain or periods following their removal of non democratic regimes. Either way the people loose. The only discussion is one of which lot exploits more.

[Now or Never]

The only crisis is the Bankruptcy Crisis facing the corrupt PTP politicians who have had the thieving of government money stopped.

[Baerboxer]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

Just like the previous regime were aiming to do. 2.2 trillion loan, mostly into their pockets.

An Amnesty for every crooked and corrupt politician and lackey, especially the big boss, for all their misdeeds.

That would've worked - not. As shown by the extent of the protests against such blatant corruption.

Nothing will change will the powers that be continue to play musical chairs among themselves.

Well, now that same loan has ballooned to more than 3 trillion. And guess what! !!

Nobody is allowed to check where the money will be spent or how it will be spent.

But we all rest easy, because the good people are now in charge. And since the economy is being managed sooooo well, you can be sure that 3 trillion will be spent wisely.

Please tell me more about this 3 trillion baht loan. This is the first time I have heard of it.

Not doubting for one minute it is not real, but you can't be too careful these days.

Guess we must have been watching the cricket Mike. I can't remember reading about a 3 trillion baht off budget loan taken out by the current government.

Perhaps Greenchair will be kind enough to provide the links detailing it so we can catch up.

[mikemac]

So much for Mr P's "efforts to bring about reconciliation" then.

This man and his sponsors will bring ruin to Thailand's door.

just because Jutaporn opens his mouth does not reflect what the majority of Thai people think, he has no mandate to represent anyone, he is a self appointed leader of a movement whos support is somewhat unclear since they murdered children and gloated on stage, my opinion is they are no longer a consideration - JMO

He still has a lot of influence. Thankfully your opinion counts for diddly squat.

Trust you to make a statement like that. It would not surprise me if you had a poster of him on your bedroom wall, making a hate speech in front of thousands of his red-shirted orcs.

And I bet smedly has the same view of your opinion. I know I do.