I closed my business in thailand and saw surprising effects....

[marcofunny]

I closed my online business in Thailand and moved to Cambodia 10 months ago, I never thought the closing of my business in Thailand will have such a big impact as more then 25 Thai has lost their jobs ever-since, the 6 condominiums and office (rent was 35K) that we were renting didn't find any new tenants as I can see from their electricity bills, my business was transferring very valuable IT and medical research technologies to Thai engineers who could benefits other local Thai companies, our Thai contractor has closed down too laying off 6 employees even the restaurants and cafe down our condominiums is closed too.

the main reason why we moved out of Thailand is because the visa situation became so difficult for foreigners to stay legally as we previously had 20 Thai employees and 6 foreigners who were staying with tourist and ED-Visas, the hiring of those foreigners were essential for the surviving of our business because you will never find any Thai who is proficient in foreign languages if you need for example to sell you services to some country in Eastern Europe you definitely need someone who speaks that language ??.

this post is simply a refute to those who thinks that visa runners and others don't have any positive effect on the economy in fact we do have a huge impact,take a look at a lot of foreign businesses who closed down when those expats moved out.

the Thai government became extremely xenophobic with entrepreneurs like us who contribute and brings wealth to this country, even the office space rent has fallen down in Thailand while it has risen considerably in phenom penh where i am currently based, I think I made the right decision to move here because our business has expanded and now we are hiring more then 30 staff.

Cambodian economy has grown more then 7% this year and try to guess why ??

Edited September 13, 2015 by marcofunny

[tolsti]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

[robertthebruce]

I hear what you are saying, and its feasible and glad that it worked out for you..

onwards and upwards...

well done....

[marcofunny]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

Edited September 13, 2015 by marcofunny

[Loptr]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

[marcofunny]

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

I 've never heard about any country in the world where you can conduct business 100% free of charge without paying some direct or indirect taxes and the indirect local taxes that I was contributing were more than 5 million baht per annum which is a lot considering the small size of my business.

besides NY city which is considered to be one of the wealthiest city in the world have more than 15% of its workforce illegal and many top economists concluded that deporting them will cause a massive stock-market collapse, the same goes for Italy which has 20% of its GDP coming out from illegal foreigners as for Thailand it s either share the cake or they will be no cake at all.

some TV members are clapping their hands and cheering each time a new regulation restricting visas comes into effect and targeting those visa runners which they consider them to be a sort of unwanted pest, let me tell you that when the Chinese becomes very dominant here they will close all other businesses which cater to westerners, surprisingly last month I was refused a hotel room in a luxury resort in koh samet simply because they said that their Chinese customers don't want to have any other nationalities in their resort even the restaurant was closed to westerners note that this hotel is 10K per night.

Edited September 13, 2015 by marcofunny

[kaorop]

One wonders: Do those spouting, "WP" and "Taxes" go on about Thai businesses that do all sorts of "funny" things to stay open?

Some of which they most probably frequent and patronize.

Watered down liquid condiment.

[Don Mega]

Sorry to hear about your failed call centre marcofunny. I hope you do better in cambo.

[Crash999]

Cambodia is now starting to get serious requiring foreigners to have work permits. So what is OP going to do then once the same situation happens in Cambodia- move to Africa?

[Sam Jones]

I understand why you left Thailand and went to Cambodia, marcofunny. Its impossible to get anything to work here in Thailand with their red tape and corruption. I wouldnt invest one satang here ...

and for some odd reason many expats here simply refuse to acknowledge that expats, visa runners etc. contribute to the economy of Thailand ... strange people indeed

Edited September 13, 2015 by Sam Jones

[PocoLoco]

Thai laws make creative and proactive entrepeneurship nearly impossible for any farang. Good for you Marcofunny (and Cambodia), please keep us updated.

[Arkady]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

[NiwPix]

Well, and it can also work the other way around.

My business increased 30-40% over last year same months. 2 foreigners and 2 work permits in place and 20 thai employees.

While it may be true that "they" make it difficult for foreigners to stay -legally with Workpermit-, it is not impossible. My dad taught me at a young age a simple rule: where there is a will, there is a way.

Your will maybe wasn't strong enough or you saw Cambodia as an easier alternative...nothing wrong with that either.

[Satcommlee]

Did all these poor Thai staff that lost their jobs know that your business was run around foreign illegal workers?

Did all these people know that you were running a completely illegal business? With non-tax paying foreign staff?

Do you think Thailand is here for your to reap the rewards and not pay in a single Baht to the system?

I hope your legal competitors are cracking open the champagne right now!

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

[marcofunny]

Did all these poor Thai staff that lost their jobs know that your business was run around foreign illegal workers?

Did all these people know that you were running a completely illegal business? With non-tax paying foreign staff?

Do you think Thailand is here for your to reap the rewards and not pay in a single Baht to the system?

I hope your legal competitors are cracking open the champagne right now!

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

my Thai staff were not poorly in fact hey were all well paid at least 2x to 3x the amount of wage they would get at a local Thai company, all Thai I ve spoken to including the local police were very cooperative and understanding, they knew that the company needed foreign staff in order to function simply because you will never find any local who is proficient in the languages we needed as for the competitors I don't have any simply because i am working on a niche market that no one is able to compete with me because they simply they don't have the know-hows to get inside that market and those jobs were created from scratch.

for those who cheers up against those who are leaving let me warn you, watch out when the local cops and population starts to get hungry and lose their income sources, they will all turn against the so called legal residents and harass them with more fees and bribes, my bro told me that he had to pay more then 4 bribes this month alone to traffic police as they get more and more aggressive to extract more money as some of them have lost their traditional income source.

Edited September 13, 2015 by marcofunny

[marcofunny]

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

I personally know hundreds of companies in the UK who employs illegal refugees and students and they 'r running their businesses for years.

[Satcommlee]

I could be just as "clever" as you and avoid paying the 35% tax I pay here in Thailand..

Somehow - I just don't fancy the life of a criminal!

[marcofunny]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

I didn't start this post to discuss if my business was legal or no, I started it to refute the claims of some TVs members who thinks that back to back visa runners are useless to the economy this post was started to show what impact it does to the local economy.

when i decided to sell all my SET and move out of Thailand I was astonished to see more then 20 foreign customers who all wanted to sell their SET stocks and they were a rush to all out everything, months later the whole SET went down and the baht sank to its lowest level so I reckon that entrepreneurs like me do have a huge impact here whether legal or no.

Edited September 13, 2015 by marcofunny

[Happy Grumpy]

So the OP is/was a criminal, positively withholding tax revenue whilst illegally employing illegal aliens.

Cambodia sounds the place for him.

Hopefully the powers that be can track him down should he reenter Thailand.

[silverado]

Did all these poor Thai staff that lost their jobs know that your business was run around foreign illegal workers?

Did all these people know that you were running a completely illegal business? With non-tax paying foreign staff?

Do you think Thailand is here for your to reap the rewards and not pay in a single Baht to the system?

I hope your legal competitors are cracking open the champagne right now!

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

[canuckoverseas]

Hehe, he better hope he never pisses off the wrong person in Cambodia, could get ugly real quick

[bwpage3]

Just a small off topic recommendation. When drafting work correspondence where you are comparing things, you might want to use “more than” rather than “more then” as the meanings are very diffe

How is your post contributing to this topic?

[bwpage3]

I understand why you left Thailand and went to Cambodia, marcofunny. Its impossible to get anything to work here in Thailand with their red tape and corruption. I wouldnt invest one satang here ...

and for some odd reason many expats here simply refuse to acknowledge that expats, visa runners etc. contribute to the economy of Thailand ... strange people indeed

There is allot of jealousy on this forum, people are just plain jealous of those that try to make a go of it themselves without giving in to being a pathetic English teacher with no degree. It is amazing the expert advice here from people have never opened or started a company of their own in Thailand or anywhere

The OP is not the only one on this post that has not followed the law 100% but probably the only one brave enough to post about it

If everyone was above board there would be no need for a forum because you would all be angels

[Loptr]

We can only assume you were not paying taxes in Thailand either for your business activity, considering you were also subverting the visa / work permit process... Lucky you left when you did, I hear the monkey house is not a nice place...

I 've never heard about any country in the world where you can conduct business 100% free of charge without paying some direct or indirect taxes and the indirect local taxes that I was contributing were more than 5 million baht per annum which is a lot considering the small size of my business.

besides NY city which is considered to be one of the wealthiest city in the world have more than 15% of its workforce illegal and many top economists concluded that deporting them will cause a massive stock-market collapse, the same goes for Italy which has 20% of its GDP coming out from illegal foreigners as for Thailand it s either share the cake or they will be no cake at all.

some TV members are clapping their hands and cheering each time a new regulation restricting visas comes into effect and targeting those visa runners which they consider them to be a sort of unwanted pest, let me tell you that when the Chinese becomes very dominant here they will close all other businesses which cater to westerners, surprisingly last month I was refused a hotel room in a luxury resort in koh samet simply because they said that their Chinese customers don't want to have any other nationalities in their resort even the restaurant was closed to westerners note that this hotel is 10K per night.

I never said that it doesn't happen or that I was condemning you for your actions... I merely made the assumption, correctly so, that you were not paying taxes for your staff... That is illegal in Thailand, no matter whether thousands of Thai business' do the same... My point is that foreigners come under more scrutiny in these cases and if caught, face still fines and potential imprisonment... From your other replies, it sounds like you don't care and like operating close to the edge... It is my experience that those that knowingly operate illegally are living on borrowed time as sooner or later it will come back to bite you... Hell, a foreigner operating a legal business in Thailand is at a disadvantage to Thai nationals for a variety of reasons...

As far as your visa comments, it is about time that Thailand tightened visa exemptions because people have been taking advantage of this loophole to stay in Thailand for years without a proper visa... You and you company are perfect examples of why... It is not rocket science...

[blackcab]

Did all these poor Thai staff that lost their jobs know that your business was run around foreign illegal workers?

Did all these people know that you were running a completely illegal business? With non-tax paying foreign staff?

Do you think Thailand is here for your to reap the rewards and not pay in a single Baht to the system?

I hope your legal competitors are cracking open the champagne right now!

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

In the UK it's 20,000 GBP (1 million baht) per illegal worker now, and if it can be shown that you knowingly employed an illegal worker then the fine can be unlimited, plus up to 2 years in prison.

[DavidB4]

Marco, I read online that the internet connections in Cambodia are much slower than in Thailand, what is your experience please? Also can you tell me a little more about how living in Cambodia is compared to Thailand? I know one businessman from the US who lives there with his Thai girlfriend and they both prefer it over Thailand.

[SOTIRIOS]

...overall I am left with the impression of arrogance, not benevolence...

...thanks anyway.....

[jasonpaul85]

i speak fully fluent polish and english along w basic french, spanish, and thai, also have 14 years sales and business ownership experience in the us, currently split my time between new york and pattaya but would love to live in south east asia full time. Do you have any use for me in Phnom Penh?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kinmaew]

Good story and smart move. When you are dealing with a country that is run by a bunch of grovelling worms and cronies logic does not apply.

[ajarnmarc]

So the OP is/was a criminal, positively withholding tax revenue whilst illegally employing illegal aliens.

Cambodia sounds the place for him.

Hopefully the powers that be can track him down should he reenter Thailand.

What a sad post/reply.

On your free time, you volunteer for the tourist police too?