I closed my business in thailand and saw surprising effects....

[Transporter]

If you were in the UK for example you could be facing a 10000 GBP fine for every one of those illegal workers you employed..

Good luck in Cambodia.

I personally know hundreds of companies in the UK who employs illegal refugees and students and they 'r running their businesses for years.

If everybody ran their business the way you do the economy of everywhere would be ruined.

Overpaying staff is wrong too as it causes all sorts of problems.

You need to do it properly or good luck when all the loopholes you are benefiting from are closed off.

Why should I have to pay higher rates of tax to subsidise you not paying at all?

[marcofunny]

The author is, regretably, quite correct in that businesses/foreigners/tourists/ even Thais, are fleeing Thailand at an alarming rate which, apparently,Thai authorities haven't even noticed. They simple refuse to concentrate on what's happening as opposed to time consuming/expensive/unplanned Blue Sky

projects to take place in an uncertain nimber of years and. possibly,

decades, when few will be here to enjoy them or, more importantly, to

PAY FOR THEM ! ! Will the last one here please turn out the lights and put up the " Out Of Business " sign ! !

Exactly Thailand as sovereign country has the complete right to impose its own laws and regulations that is not the issue here as no body has forced me out of Thailand however when the right moment came and I simply decided to move out of there because the business environment became too hostile towards foreigners and I was surprised to see large number of entrepreneurs were doing exactly the same thing and the latest economic data fully confirms my sightings.

as for Cambodia it s completely the opposite and the place is booming with new businesses popping up every month yeah it still does not have the infrastructure of Thailand but it will catch up very soon, new offices and factories are popping up from nowhere, new luxurious condominiums and office spaces are being built, new medical clinics are available unlike few years ago and plus it s 30.% cheaper, my office building is getting very busy with new Chinese, Korean, Japanese and westerner entrepreneurs moving in unlike my previous office building in Bangkok which became completely dead when I left.

[kovaltech]

OP,

Admitting that you broke the law of Thailand, on a public forum... using some flaw excuses...

How difficult its going to be now for the real law abiding persons ?

I hope the Cambodians read this as well and that somebody takes you out of business...

There are no excuses for the crimes you admitted you did... so stop try to justify yourself, hurting others, and turn yourself in...

All legit people suffer from those who are illicit...

So again, get straight, turn yourself in and keep us informed ...

we need a good story now and then...

[Thaidream]

It never ceases to amaze me how self righteous and critical people are towards others. And down right mean! My faith in humanity again diminished after reading these posts.

[abrahamzvi]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

I didn't start this post to discuss if my business was legal or no, I started it to refute the claims of some TVs members who thinks that back to back visa runners are useless to the economy this post was started to show what impact it does to the local economy.

when i decided to sell all my SET and move out of Thailand I was astonished to see more then 20 foreign customers who all wanted to sell their SET stocks and they were a rush to all out everything, months later the whole SET went down and the baht sank to its lowest level so I reckon that entrepreneurs like me do have a huge impact here whether legal or no.

I really do not know what business the OP was/is in, but he most certainly knows nothing about international economics. If currencies drop in value against the US $ because expatriate are leaving due to difficulties like his, them most of the Far East, including such countries like, Philippines, Malasia, Singapur, China and Indonesia, must be experiencing such exodus, as all their currencies have been dropping against the Dollar recently. Even the EU must be experiencing the same "difficulties" considering the fact that for the last 3 years the EURO has dropped by around 35% against the US$....

[williamgeorgeallen]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

have you ever run a business in Thailand? employing 4 thais and paying for a work permit. how can anyone do this to employ foreigners? I understand why some people try other options.

[Soutpeel]

I don't see how you can complain that it became too difficult to have foreigners working illegally. They were illegal. It is supposed to be difficult.

If everything you say is true, this was a substantial business, that should have been able to get work permits for 6 foreigners with special skills, such as speaking E. European languages. Perhaps you were not keen on paying Thai tax. It would make more sense, if you said you were trying to run the business legally but encountered official roadblocks but it sounds like you didn't even try.

I didn't start this post to discuss if my business was legal or no, I started it to refute the claims of some TVs members who thinks that back to back visa runners are useless to the economy this post was started to show what impact it does to the local economy.

when i decided to sell all my SET and move out of Thailand I was astonished to see more then 20 foreign customers who all wanted to sell their SET stocks and they were a rush to all out everything, months later the whole SET went down and the baht sank to its lowest level so I reckon that entrepreneurs like me do have a huge impact here whether legal or no.

Well you did start the thread saying the Thai rules are crap so asking whether your business was legal or not is a valid question to ask,

20 thai employees would get you 5 work permits if you were legal

[Soutpeel]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

have you ever run a business in Thailand? employing 4 thais and paying for a work permit. how can anyone do this to employ foreigners? I understand why some people try other options.

All the companies i have worked for over the last 15 years seemed to have managed to get WP for their foreign employees, fact is the system in Thailand is not that hard, quick turn around and not that expensive...

[kovaltech]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

have you ever run a business in Thailand? employing 4 thais and paying for a work permit. how can anyone do this to employ foreigners? I understand why some people try other options.

pls, stop condoning breaking the law... If everybody would pay his taxes, there would be less taxes to pay by all who does pay...

so, to all that say its ok to break the law... get plagued by people asking for a bribe, maybe they leave the legit people alone then...

idiots...

Edited September 14, 2015 by kovaltech

[Soutpeel]

It never ceases to amaze me how self righteous and critical people are towards others. And down right mean! My faith in humanity again diminished after reading these posts.

It never ceases to amaze me how people, mainly the lilly whites who believe the native laws dont apply to them

[natway09]

Playing the stock market (SET) is just" legalised gambling" & I fail to see how there are any tangible advantages for Thailand

in allowing a foreign, unregistered Company buy & sell without the proper reporting licences & required TAX reports

Me thinks this is more about sour grapes than anything else (They didn't kiss my white arse when i wanted them too)

[Raymonddiaz]

Cambodia is now starting to get serious requiring foreigners to have work permits. So what is OP going to do then once the same situation happens in Cambodia- move to Africa?

Is Africa a new country?????

[Thaidream]

Now we are into alleging racism? Good God people- get a life.

[fletchsmile]

Maybe a few short term difficulties for those involved. Businesses come and go that's life. One fails, something else springs up elsewhere.

Long term it's probably in the best interests of Thailand that OP and his business have moved on. Thailand's come a long way in the last few decades. It needs to continue to progress on many levels though.

Losing illegal businesses that are here to compete on cheap costs, by-passing rules, avoid taxes etc are key steps the country needs to make to continue progressing. Not to mention the moral side of getting people to move away from corruption and illegal activities to support a stronger legitimate economy which in turn can better support the society we live in.

At some point Cambodia will want to make that transition too, along with Laos, Vietnam, Myanmar etc

By coincidence have just renewed my own WP for another 2 years. Used an agent service: THB 12k service fee + 6k fee for the 2 year WP. Swift and painless process - didn't even have to attend anywhere as it was a renewal.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited September 14, 2015 by fletchsmile

[55Jay]

Now we are into alleging racism? Good God people- get a life.

You really are living in a Thai Dream World, aren't you. Good god, man, wake up!

[umbanda]

Will be nice if info like this one get in the hands of the Thai PM. I think that foreigners do not have any representation in the governments, and it is necessary, to foreigners and to the government.

[Misty]

I guess the assertion that an illegal business may spur economic activity (or the removal of it may have a negative impact) really isn't all that surprising. Illegal arms sales, drug running, child prostitution, piracy - all these have a stimulative effect on economic growth, at least locally. I wonder how much of Bangkok's night life has been funded by boiler rooms laundering their ill gotten gains? But I'm not sure that they this means these types of activities are good for an organized society. Over the long run, for a successful country you need free markets but also a good legal system ( including the fair implementation of laws).

While I wish the OP well, I don't agree with his approach to business.

[Soutpeel]

Will be nice if info like this one get in the hands of the Thai PM. I think that foreigners do not have any representation in the governments, and it is necessary, to foreigners and to the government.

Why should foreigners have representation in the govement, one is not a citizen or a legal resident, of course they may be interested to know how foreigners are running illegal business' in Thailand

[duanebigsby]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

have you ever run a business in Thailand? employing 4 thais and paying for a work permit. how can anyone do this to employ foreigners? I understand why some people try other options.

He was already employing his Thai staff, not employing them to simply qualify for work permits.

So if he already needed this staff, then he could have gotten work permits for the foreigners.

[duanebigsby]

The author is, regretably, quite correct in that businesses/foreigners/tourists/ even Thais, are fleeing Thailand at an alarming rate which, apparently,Thai authorities haven't even noticed. They simple refuse to concentrate on what's happening as opposed to time consuming/expensive/unplanned Blue Sky

projects to take place in an uncertain nimber of years and. possibly,

decades, when few will be here to enjoy them or, more importantly, to

PAY FOR THEM ! ! Will the last one here please turn out the lights and put up the " Out Of Business " sign ! !

Exactly Thailand as sovereign country has the complete right to impose its own laws and regulations that is not the issue here as no body has forced me out of Thailand however when the right moment came and I simply decided to move out of there because the business environment became too hostile towards foreigners and I was surprised to see large number of entrepreneurs were doing exactly the same thing and the latest economic data fully confirms my sightings.

as for Cambodia it s completely the opposite and the place is booming with new businesses popping up every month yeah it still does not have the infrastructure of Thailand but it will catch up very soon, new offices and factories are popping up from nowhere, new luxurious condominiums and office spaces are being built, new medical clinics are available unlike few years ago and plus it s 30.% cheaper, my office building is getting very busy with new Chinese, Korean, Japanese and westerner entrepreneurs moving in unlike my previous office building in Bangkok which became completely dead when I left.

I agree with the idea that in Thailand it is difficult to be an entrepreneur, but it was doable legally for you.

Why didn't you just Google "rules to do business, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Vietnam, to begin with and then start up in Cambodia?

[fishhooks]

Just a small off topic recommendation. When drafting work correspondence where you are comparing things, you might want to use “more than” rather than “more then” as the meanings are very different.

Also a few more "CAPS" in the right places....sorry to be "Picky" but you need to dot all i's and cross all T's in business.

[Berkshire]

Will be nice if info like this one get in the hands of the Thai PM. I think that foreigners do not have any representation in the governments, and it is necessary, to foreigners and to the government.

It would be good if the Thai PM got the facts, not the made-up nonsense that the OP is feeding you guys on this thread. But hey, if people are gullible enough to believe him, I hope they will leave Thailand immediately and head straight for Cambodia. Lots of quality expats in Cambodia.....http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/12/7-ways-cambodia-can-solve-its-foreign-dude-problem/

Cambodia is also a great place to settle down....http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/07/7-reasons-why-you-really-shouldnt-move-to-cambodia/

Good luck!

[TPI]

I understand why you left Thailand and went to Cambodia, marcofunny. Its impossible to get anything to work here in Thailand with their red tape and corruption. I wouldnt invest one satang here ...

and for some odd reason many expats here simply refuse to acknowledge that expats, visa runners etc. contribute to the economy of Thailand ... strange people indeed

Hear hear! A couple of years ago I was at a CFO conference and we tried to work out how many tax payers there were in Thailand? Strange as it may seem the numbers came out to about 60,000, an odd number when you consider that there're about 60,000 WP issued every year! Odd that!

[h90]

Why didn't your foreign staff have a Non B visa and a work permit ? You are openly admitting that your foreign staff were working on ED and Tourist Visas... Either a troll or a perfect example of the fact that you can send a man to the moon but you still can't fix stupid.

I am not the only business that were running this way, you can not waste your time and resources applying for a very complicated paperwork for some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working with you, the staff were constantly changing and there is no flexible visa work scheme such as the Australian working holiday visa program, the Cambodian business visa however is straightforward you pay $300 to an agent and you have a one year visa without any hassle.

only a fool thinks that foreigners will compete or steal jobs or wealth from locals, take a look at north Korea which illustrates the best example when a country closes its doors completely to foreigners.

"very valuable IT and medical research technologies"

"some staff who will stays 5 or 7 months working" that must be quick learner.....

In Thailand you pay like 50.000 to an agent who connects with your internal or external accounting and get it done. Everything complicated is handled by the agent.

But in case if you also forgot to register the company and pay tax than it gets difficult......

Of course the visa regulations here are complete nonsense but I doubt that everything in Cambodia is the pure paradise....

[SGD]

Lots of commentary here on "just sort the work permit problem" but I guess most saying that haven't actually needed to go through the process.

One complication is that it takes time and if you are already "working" then you are caught up on a wheel outside the law so to speak and the OP's comments regarding a transient workforce are spot on.

[Soutpeel]

Lots of commentary here on "just sort the work permit problem" but I guess most saying that haven't actually needed to go through the process.

One complication is that it takes time and if you are already "working" then you are caught up on a wheel outside the law so to speak and the OP's comments regarding a transient workforce are spot on.

Been there seen that and got the t-shirt, the process is painless if you have people who know what they are doing and i base my observations on working in Thailand and having been through quite a few other WP/work visa processes in quite a few countries over the years and Thailands is one of the easiest

[Soutpeel]

I understand why you left Thailand and went to Cambodia, marcofunny. Its impossible to get anything to work here in Thailand with their red tape and corruption. I wouldnt invest one satang here ...

and for some odd reason many expats here simply refuse to acknowledge that expats, visa runners etc. contribute to the economy of Thailand ... strange people indeed

Hear hear! A couple of years ago I was at a CFO conference and we tried to work out how many tax payers there were in Thailand? Strange as it may seem the numbers came out to about 60,000, an odd number when you consider that there're about 60,000 WP issued every year! Odd that!

I dont believe you and on the basis of two fronts

1. I work for a MNC and all Thai employees pay income tax at a guess there are 4000 Thai employee

further i know many other Thais work for other big companies who pay their income tax and would guess in these companies another 6 thousand employed

2. I dont belive the number of 60k WP being issued every year

Dont always believe what a fellow farang tells you while sitting on a bar stool in Nana

[freebyrd]

Marco, I read online that the internet connections in Cambodia are much slower than in Thailand, what is your experience please? Also can you tell me a little more about how living in Cambodia is compared to Thailand? I know one businessman from the US who lives there with his Thai girlfriend and they both prefer it over Thailand.

I've lived in Cambodia 10 years. It's a much easier place to be than Thailand in many respects, as long as you're not too concerned about being a taxi ride away from the nearest hospital that is. Personally I wouldn't live in Thailand again if I was paid to.

That said, as always, one man's meat.....

[h90]

Lots of commentary here on "just sort the work permit problem" but I guess most saying that haven't actually needed to go through the process.

One complication is that it takes time and if you are already "working" then you are caught up on a wheel outside the law so to speak and the OP's comments regarding a transient workforce are spot on.

Been there seen that and got the t-shirt, the process is painless if you have people who know what they are doing and i base my observations on working in Thailand and having been through quite a few other WP/work visa processes in quite a few countries over the years and Thailands is one of the easiest

If you have everything correct and in order it is painless. I needed 3 attempts because the broker worked slow and stupid so always some document expired. After everything was done correct it was painless but expensive.

With an IQ of 80 and 1 hour time you could streamline everything in a way that would save half the time and costs.

With an IQ of 100 and 1 day for thinking you could cut away 90 % of it and still keep control of it.

[freebyrd]

Will be nice if info like this one get in the hands of the Thai PM. I think that foreigners do not have any representation in the governments, and it is necessary, to foreigners and to the government.

It would be good if the Thai PM got the facts, not the made-up nonsense that the OP is feeding you guys on this thread. But hey, if people are gullible enough to believe him, I hope they will leave Thailand immediately and head straight for Cambodia. Lots of quality expats in Cambodia.....http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/12/7-ways-cambodia-can-solve-its-foreign-dude-problem/

Cambodia is also a great place to settle down....http://www.khmer440.com/k/2013/07/7-reasons-why-you-really-shouldnt-move-to-cambodia/

Good luck!

And this doesn't happen in Thailand? I have been living and working in Cambodia for 10 years and have never encountered anything like this. I'm sure if I wanted to I could dredge up similar incidents from the UK, however I must get back to work and then go home to my wife. Not all of us are here for sex drugs and other debauchery.