pbonline Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 The new Pajero is not available for test drive yet but I'm quite sure the 3-5 gear will give better performance. You don't want a diesel to run on high rpm, It´s a bit tricky do get max acceleration from a diesel car so this will help to keep the rpm at an level where you have the most power. Not a big difference compare to cars with 6 gears but still a difference, and the high 8 will definitely save some fuel. Looking forward to testdrive the new Pajero in Oktober when it´s available. Don't fink you understand stuff chummy............BUT, thats OK.......... Any diesel don't rev in everyday driving.......Can't remember the last time my pickup saw 2000rpm...... I understand but not really that interested to google the power charts for exact specs. This 8 gear aut is developed spec for the new Pajero and I think Mitsu knows what they are doing, so I´m convenient this will turn out great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... Edited September 21, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phutoie2 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... yes, most of us know and understand that, but, but the idjiot from Ubon R_____. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... yes, most of us know and understand that, but, but the idjiot from Ubon R_____. I think you're mis-reading him. He's OK - he's just looking for someone.... anyone.... to say his 4AT Weego still rates @TA: It's still a good truck mate, don't worry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Probably the most popular transmission for heavy trucks is the 18 speed Road Ranger. This is important for the best performance and economy. The 18 speeds allows the engine to stay in the best narrow RPM range. I can well understand that, BUT, a pickup truck is not a heavy truck with a heavy load. I'll be quite interested in what kind of fuel economy the new Pajero is getting. I'll be quite surprised if it betters the new Isuzus and Fords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... yes, most of us know and understand that, but, but the idjiot from Ubon R_____. I think you're mis-reading him. He's OK - he's just looking for someone.... anyone.... to say his 4AT Weego still rates @TA: It's still a good truck mate, don't worry But sadly folk don't understand rides with bundles of low rpm torque........... Yeah. On that, I reckon the Ford 3.2L could probably get by without the hassle of gears at all ugh, image keeps getting squashed so it's unreadable Anyway, the Ford 3.2L is that big flat torque curve at the top of the chart Edited September 21, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbonline Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 yes, most of us know and understand that, but, but the idjiot from Ubon R_____. I think you're mis-reading him. He's OK - he's just looking for someone.... anyone.... to say his 4AT Weego still rates @TA: It's still a good truck mate, don't worry But sadly folk don't understand rides with bundles of low rpm torque........... Yeah. On that, I reckon the Ford 3.2L could probably get by without the hassle of gears at all 2012 Pickup Torque Comparison.png ugh, image keeps getting squashed so it's unreadable Anyway, the Ford 3.2L is that big flat torque curve at the top of the chart Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giddyup Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsie888 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... These high gear count transmissions also have a big impact on emissions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseTheBass Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Designed by Daewoo built by GM. Avoided by most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Designed by Daewoo built by GM. Avoided by most. GM own Daewoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Let's try to clear this up The Captiva was originally a Daewoo design. The Sonic's base platform is a Daewoo design (donor car = Aveo) but the transformation to Sonic was a global effort. The Spin is a GM Brazil and Indonesia co-design. The Cruze was first sold as a Daewoo, but is claimed to be a global design effort. The Colorado and Trailblazer ere both designed by GM Brazil. In the Thai market, none of them are made by Daewoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Let's try to clear this up The Captiva was originally a Daewoo design. The Sonic's base platform is a Daewoo design (donor car = Aveo) but the transformation to Sonic was a global effort. The Spin is a GM Brazil and Indonesia co-design. The Cruze was first sold as a Daewoo, but is claimed to be a global design effort. The Colorado and Trailblazer ere both designed by GM Brazil. In the Thai market, none of them are made by Daewoo. Your statement about the Colorado and Trailblazer is not true https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Colorado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Let's try to clear this up The Captiva was originally a Daewoo design. The Sonic's base platform is a Daewoo design (donor car = Aveo) but the transformation to Sonic was a global effort. The Spin is a GM Brazil and Indonesia co-design. The Cruze was first sold as a Daewoo, but is claimed to be a global design effort. The Colorado and Trailblazer ere both designed by GM Brazil. In the Thai market, none of them are made by Daewoo. Your statement about the Colorado and Trailblazer is not true https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Colorado Yes it is - that article is just confusing North American models with same names, but which are completely different cars, with what we get here. Google for: GMI700 That's the platform code for the models we get here Hint: LinkedIn profiles will help you pin down where it was developed, if you find yourself getting stuck in blog reposts Edited September 22, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitar Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Probably the most popular transmission for heavy trucks is the 18 speed Road Ranger. This is important for the best performance and economy. The 18 speeds allows the engine to stay in the best narrow RPM range. I can well understand that, BUT, a pickup truck is not a heavy truck with a heavy load. I'll be quite interested in what kind of fuel economy the new Pajero is getting. I'll be quite surprised if it betters the new Isuzus and Fords. Yeah a pickup is not a heavy truck, but to get an incremental improvement in economy and emissions the engine needs to stay within a small load and rpm window. Can't do that with out a lot of ratios to select from. So far Mitsu is the only one claiming its PPV will be below the new 200g/km excise tax threshold, giving them a 5% tax reduction. If true, the new PJS fuel economy should be better too, at least according to the test standards. Real world economy will be interesting as you say. It's all pretty simple. They make 12, 10, 8 and 6 speed autos because they are better than 4 speeds. How much each engine / chassis combination will benefit from extra gears varies, but there's always a benefit. The main one is FE, then there's responsiveness, smoothness and NVH. Some high gear count auto's are now pulling better FE numbers than the same engine & chassis with MT. In the case of the Pajero Sport, it's using a Aisin 8AT from the same family that BMW is now using in some of it's newer cars (previously they used ZF boxes). if they're good enough for BMW.... These high gear count transmissions also have a big impact on emissions too. Yep, especially emissions measured to test standards, which manufacturers are primarily concerned about. Hence the sluggish economy modes in some the newer 7 and 8 speed Mercedes and BMWs. I hope the PJS 8 speed has a sport mode.... Edited September 22, 2015 by Jitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2fishin2 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Now we just want a comment from the guy who compares Chevrolet with Daewo.. Aren't some Chevy's made by Daewoo? Let's try to clear this up The Captiva was originally a Daewoo design. The Sonic's base platform is a Daewoo design (donor car = Aveo) but the transformation to Sonic was a global effort. The Spin is a GM Brazil and Indonesia co-design. The Cruze was first sold as a Daewoo, but is claimed to be a global design effort. The Colorado and Trailblazer ere both designed by GM Brazil. In the Thai market, none of them are made by Daewoo. Your statement about the Colorado and Trailblazer is not truehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Colorado Yes it is - that article is just confusing North American models with same names, but which are completely different cars, with what we get here. Google for: GMI700 That's the platform code for the models we get here Hint: LinkedIn profiles will help you pin down where it was developed, if you find yourself getting stuck in blog reposts Reading and comprehension dont seem to be your strong points. The article is not confusing at all, your mumbo jumbo sure is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAS21 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Let's try to clear this up The Captiva was originally a Daewoo design. The Sonic's base platform is a Daewoo design (donor car = Aveo) but the transformation to Sonic was a global effort. The Spin is a GM Brazil and Indonesia co-design. The Cruze was first sold as a Daewoo, but is claimed to be a global design effort. The Colorado and Trailblazer ere both designed by GM Brazil. In the Thai market, none of them are made by Daewoo. Your statement about the Colorado and Trailblazer is not truehttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Colorado Yes it is - that article is just confusing North American models with same names, but which are completely different cars, with what we get here. Google for: GMI700 That's the platform code for the models we get here Hint: LinkedIn profiles will help you pin down where it was developed, if you find yourself getting stuck in blog reposts Reading and comprehension dont seem to be your strong points. The article is not confusing at all, your mumbo jumbo sure is. WOW ... that reply is impolite if I may say so. I have read many of Mr IMHO's replies and never have I seen him make a rude or pointed reply .. you would do well to follow in his footsteps. Edited September 22, 2015 by JAS21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitar Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Besides, where is the contradiction? The wikipedia article says the first gen Colorado was "jointly designed by GM's North American operations, GM's Brazil operations, and Isuzu". The article does not credit the design of the current Thai model to any specific part of GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Besides, where is the contradiction? The wikipedia article says the first gen Colorado was "jointly designed by GM's North American operations, GM's Brazil operations, and Isuzu". The article does not credit the design of the current Thai model to any specific part of GM. Anyways, those in the know, know it was GM Brazil that headed up the project. No Wikipedia needed. Edited September 22, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Reading and comprehension dont seem to be your strong points. The article is not confusing at all, your mumbo jumbo sure is. WOW ... that reply is impolite if I may say so. I have read many of Mr IMHO's replies and never have I seen him make a rude or pointed reply .. you would do well to follow in his footsteps. Yeah bit of an odd reply. I'll put it down to PMS Maybe I should update some of those poor Wikipedia articles some day with some facts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 WOW ... that reply is impolite if I may say so. I have read many of Mr IMHO's replies and never have I seen him make a rude or pointed reply .. you would do well to follow in his footsteps. to be fair though IMHO did say that that wiki page is for the US models and has nothing at all to do with the models we get here.... I read the article as saying the models here, USA and Brazil are the same vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary A Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 At one time, GM owned 49 percent of Isuzu so GM and Isuzu worked closely together. Since then Isuzu has bought back all except about 12 percent of GM shares. They still cooperate but it appears that they pretty much go their own ways. Isuzu opted to keep its own diesels and GM globally designed their own. Which is the best diesel? The Isuzu 3.0 liter is time tested and recently improved. Time will tell how well the GM Diesel holds up. The GM engine develops more torque and horse power but the torque curve suffers. Everything is a compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 WOW ... that reply is impolite if I may say so. I have read many of Mr IMHO's replies and never have I seen him make a rude or pointed reply .. you would do well to follow in his footsteps. to be fair though IMHO did say that that wiki page is for the US models and has nothing at all to do with the models we get here.... I read the article as saying the models here, USA and Brazil are the same vehicle. Sorry, let me expand. The GMI700 platform that was developed between 2006 and 2011, which we saw launched here in Oct 2011, had nothing at all to do with the GMT355 platform GM USA was at that time using for the Chev Colorado or GMC Canyon. It's only since this year they started using a modified version of GMI700, called GMT700 now, to build US market trucks. GMT700 has numerous changes filtered down from the GMT800 platform used for the Silverado, and is not the same as what we get here, even though the two projects now fall under the same project name. GMI 700 development was headquartered in Brazil. Simple as that. As it merged to become GMT700 in the past couple of years, extra development work was done by GM USA. Isuzu's involvement was designing the ladder chassis and suspension. Whoever is editing those Wikipedia articles seem to ignore history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) Ford have built a run of short wheelbase Rangers using the Everest chassis... if only the 3.2 was manual. 200 hp/short wheel base (with rear coils and discs0/manual/locking diff.... has the makings of a fun ride... alas it is only Auto. saying that the 2.2 manual hirider shorty for 575k could be fun though. Edited September 22, 2015 by Don Mega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Ford have built a run of short wheelbase Rangers using the Everest chassis... if only the 3.2 was manual. 200 hp/short wheel base (with rear coils and discs0/manual/locking diff.... has the makings of a fun ride... alas it is only Auto. saying that the 2.2 manual hirider shorty for 575k could be fun though. sounds interesting The problem is the rear coils - with them it would no longer taxed as pickup, but as a car, here in TH right? It's been a while since I read the official excise tax definition of 'pickup truck', but last time I did, rear leaf springs were part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Mega Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 yeah it a bit of an odd ball with the rear coils being taxed as a sedan given it is 4x4 single cab. The reason it exists i was told (albeit very vague details)was that for Ford Thailand to receive tax reliefs with the Everest it had to be proven (with a sale of a minimum of 500 vehicles) that is based on a Pickup, hence there exists on the Ford Thailand website a listing for a 4x4 3.2/auto and a 4x2 2.2/manual. Does the Nissan Navara get the coil sprung rear here ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 23, 2015 Share Posted September 23, 2015 yeah it a bit of an odd ball with the rear coils being taxed as a sedan given it is 4x4 single cab. The reason it exists i was told (albeit very vague details)was that for Ford Thailand to receive tax reliefs with the Everest it had to be proven (with a sale of a minimum of 500 vehicles) that is based on a Pickup, hence there exists on the Ford Thailand website a listing for a 4x4 3.2/auto and a 4x2 2.2/manual. Does the Nissan Navara get the coil sprung rear here ? Nope - all NP300's here have rear leaf springs... the difference in tax is pretty (too) substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaseTheBass Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) No idea if this image will show. Ok. Got there in the end. This is the missus being told what all the gizmos do at Ford today. Edited September 26, 2015 by JaseTheBass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMac Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 If I would buy another one, perhaps a Tata. It's just cool to drive to some meeting and emerge of that shiniest of all cars well dressed and get someone to park it for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 (edited) Mrs JaseTheBass: Oh that's the contacts from my phone... How come all the Thai names show up as rectangles? Ford Sales Guy: Errrr....... (shrugs shoulders) Edited September 26, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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