Interview about new Chiangmai Immigration office

[RxDan]

New Immigration Office (Airport location)

Apparently, the request for a new Chiang Mai Immigration Office has been turned down by Bangkok. Soon, the remaining services at the Airport Office will be moved to the Promenada location

Here is an interview with Marc Vermeulen (Director of Promenada) and his interview with Pol. Col. Rutjapong Saravanangkool, the Chief of Chiang Mai Immigration

This was posted in the recent Chiang Mai Expat Club Newsletter

When Will Conditions Improve?

Last Wednesday, Sept. 9, I meet with Marc Vermeulen, Director of Promenada (Prom.) Resort Mall and found he wants to improve the "experience" for Immigration's customers at the mall. He stated that Imm. has signed a multi-year contract and plans to move all their operations at the current location near the airport to Prom. very soon.

Already, Prom. has taken steps to improve conditions. They have removed livestock from the holding pens near the waiting area, supplied comfortable chairs for waiting, and opened the toilets at 6 am. They've appealed to mall merchants and now some are open early with more dining options.

Marc listened to my suggestions that outside lighting was needed for those who arrive to queue prior to 6 am and also several steps aren't wheelchair-friendly. I think those problems will be corrected immediately.

Imm. Prom. has many amenities lacking at the previous location. There is ample parking. The toilets are superb and open early. There are wheelchairs available near the Rim Ping entrance in the parking garage. Several coffee shops open early and Rim Ping offers numerous excellent breakfast choices under 100 baht, starting at 8 am, and a full range of options for lunch including a mall food court, Duke's and Ragu.

It's too early for an announcement, but Marc realizes there is a need for an indoor aircon waiting area adjacent (and within sight) of Imm. and also a way to communicate queue number status to people who want to go into the mall. In the end, I think that private enterprise will probably solve the problem of lack of indoor aircon waiting or knowing when your queue number is being called.

Then I ran into Pol. Col. Rutjapong Saravanangkool, the Chief of Chiang Mai Immigration and we talked in his Prom. Imm. office for about 30 minutes.

He confirmed that Imm. has a multi-year contract with Prom. and that all operations at the airport location with move to Prom. soon, in stages. Education visa extensions will move within 4 - 6 weeks.

Col. Rutjapong said he signed the contract with Prom. because Bangkok turned down the proposal to build a new Imm. office and something had to be done to improve conditions. He said there is no budget for the move and the Imm. employees have made great sacrifice to do the move and asks expats to be understanding. He says that once the move is finished conditions will be better, but the transition period will be difficult.

About the on-line queue: Col. Rutjapong said it was discontinued because it can't accommodate two locations and generated many complaints. He said the programming is done in Bangkok. He was vague about if or when it will return. Note: I talked about the results of the survey, but didn't have a copy to give to him, since the meeting was impromptu.

Prom. Imm. at 2:30 pm last Thursday, Sept 10. Everyone is waiting for passports to be returned after seeing officers. It was reported on ThaiVisa.com that no one was waiting to submit 90-day reports or retirement extensions.

About getting another Imm. officer to process retirement extensions: Yes, there will be more than 20 people processed each day once more staff moves from the old location. It's low season now and there hasn't been a need for more than 20 retirement extensions per day. (I would agree, based on what I've seen during my recent observations of the morning queue card distribution.)

About whether mail-in 90 day reports have been discontinued: He said absolutely not! He said this is the best way for expats to submit their 90 day reports, but they must follow the rules. He doesn't understand why some expats say they have been told by Imm. officers that 90 day reporting by mail has been stopped. He said maybe it's because that expat had done something wrong in how they submitted their report. ThaiVisa.com has a good summary of 90-day report procedures.

About whether 90-day on-line reporting has been discontinued: He said it still is in operation, but doesn't work very well. All programming for that comes from Bangkok and the local offices have no control.

About visa agents: He claims there is no desire by Imm. for everyone to hire visa agents. Agents have to wait in the early morning queue to get queue cards just like everyone else and aren't given preference.

I wanted to ask Col. Rutjapong about other topics, but a junior officer presented him with a stack of passports and documents to review and it was my cue to leave. As I left, Col. Rutjapong reminded me to ask the CEC members to please be patient and polite.

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[khwaibah]

You need to reed this to get some enlightenment http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/855734-bomber-blame-game-sees-thailand-immigration-abruptly-change-visa-rules/#entry9851621

Edited September 14, 2015 by khwaibah

[masuk]

I somehow get the feeling that Chiang Mai is the poor relation of BKK.

They're getting the B's rush from BKK Immigration, footpaths are breaking up and full of holes, puddles, mud and motorbikes.

There appears to be little or no public education on Dengue Fever, people are in hospital with this and junk and old tyres in the streets collect water/breeding sites.

City water running to waste, as pipes leak.

Maybe I'm just imagining things.

[NancyL]

You're right, Masuk. This from the NY Times, in an editorial last week: "The Thai state spent more than 72 percent of public funds in greater Bangkok, where only 17 percent of Thais lived, according to 2012 figures from the World Bank, the most recent data available."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/opinion/how-to-save-the-thai-economy.html?_r=0

[hml367]

As far as spending relationships go, I think the revenue collected in relation to the area is more important than the percentage of people living in an area.

[Sparkles]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

[trainman34014]

It's a shame the old office is closing because it had, at last, returned to some sort of normality and is a lot closer to home for many of us who will now join the Circus at Promenada.

[MESmith]

It's a shame the old office is closing because it had, at last, returned to some sort of normality and is a lot closer to home for many of us who will now join the Circus at Promenada.

Having all the staff at one location has to be the way to go. good parking & facilities should be better for all,

[kaptainrob]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

Our General/PM is doing a stalwart job within a limited time frame and with many more urgent problems.

Different interpretations and rumour about CNX IO is rampant on CMTVF ... give them a fair go. Crikey, let's applaud the changes so far ... even if execution and PR is lacking.

[Trujillo]

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

Absolutely. These are jobs for life and if you pay attention, the "ho-hum let's see, what should I do next, oh, how about nothing for a while" attitude is widespread.

The "interview" shows me that the head of immigration is more concerned about his people than the foreigners they serve.

And who cares if the lights are on in the morning or if the shops are open? I mean seriously? Who cares? I just want fast and efficient service.

And agents don't stand in line the same way as us normal people, that I can attest to. If he doesn't know that basic fact, then someone has been blowing smoke up his asp.

The question I want answered is: How do you expect retired folks to extend their visa when even standing in line at 3am does not insure that you will get a number for service that day? That is not only stupid and demeaning, it's insulting.

But apparently we foreigners should be patient and polite because the transition to a whole brand new office will be difficult for the immigration personnel and will come at great personal sacrifice to them....oh, my crocodile tears are flooding the keyboard....

[gobs]

Thank you, sangphet, for the input.

[northernjohn]

Thank you, sangphet, for the input.

I agree. We now know what we are faced with. It looks to be better thanks to the mall taking action. The big question is will immigration get more office space and more staff?

[Trujillo]

About the on-line queue: Col. Rutjapong said it was discontinued because it can't accommodate two locations and generated many complaints. He said the programming is done in Bangkok.

Well, duh! Two locations? How on earth could that interweb computer thing be able to know how to book at TWO locations? The mind boggles!

And clearly nobody in Chiang Mai could possibly have the skill and knowledge that the computer geniuses in Bangkok have. Making a program to put your name in a queue to go to ONE location is so impossibly complex that only the computer mavens in the nation's capital could possibly make it happen.

[slipperylobster]

....at least they see the problem.

It has been hard to decipher the posts related to this subject. Many people had posted good experiences. I am sure the staff are considerate enough, but the "no parking spaces", "no comfortable seating, "long waiting in lines", "unorganized gaggle of jabbering farangs", and the "lack of adequate ventilation"....made the old Chiang Mai location a nightmare.

Hope they can get the new location sorted out. You would think it would be a "priority", as Chiang Mai is a world class destination for tourists and retirees, as well. As far as proximity...who cares? You only go there every 90 days anyways. If you do online reporting...only once a year.

Edited September 15, 2015 by slipperylobster

[CMNightRider]

I attended the Chiang Mai Immigration presentation at the expat club. They all had an opportunity to speak. Without exception, immigration staff explained how immigration would improve once they relocated to Promenada. Once they made this historic move, the first thing I couldn't help notice was the online queue was shut down. Then of course the shortage of staff along with opening their own visa service next door to their office. Lets give this a little thought. They opened their own visa service right next door to their office.

Without the online queue which made it possible to show up at immigration with an actual appointment, expats now have to show up two to three hours before they open their office. The other choice is to use one of the many visa services or use their visa service. I don't know about you people but I don't see any incentive for immigration to use their online queue anymore or to improve their services.

[BarnicaleBob]

I had made a retirement visa extension appointment back in July for mid October. I have received no notice of it being cancelled, will it still be honored when I arrive in October? Has anyone who got their appointment prior to July recently in the past couple of weeks showed up for their appointment and if so did immigration honor it?

[TheKnave]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

CM is Thailand's fourth largest city, behind Bangkok, Udon Thank, and Nonthaburi; or it's seventh largest city, by some whacky calculation I couldn't fathom.

Definitely not second, though...

[TheKnave]

Udon Thank, SP.

[TheKnave]

Huh?? U D O N T H A N I, jeez Mr. Tablet, get wise...

[Tywais]

I had made a retirement visa extension appointment back in July for mid October. I have received no notice of it being cancelled, will it still be honored when I arrive in October? Has anyone who got their appointment prior to July recently in the past couple of weeks showed up for their appointment and if so did immigration honor it?

There have been reports recently of excepting the reservation for retirement extensions at Promenada. Mine was excepted last week at the old office for extension based on work. They had a computer print out of appointments that they checked my appointment card against.

[Saan]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

Just to clear up a popular fallacy - Chiang Mai is not Thailand's second largest city. It lies number 7 after Korat.

Bangkok 5,104,476 Samut Prakan 388,920 Mueang Nonthaburi 291,555 Udon Thani 247,231 Chon Buri 219,164 Nakhon Ratchasima 208,781 Chiang Mai 200,952

[Jeffkp]

About the on-line queue: Col. Rutjapong said it was discontinued because it can't accommodate two locations and generated many complaints. He said the programming is done in Bangkok.

Well, duh! Two locations? How on earth could that interweb computer thing be able to know how to book at TWO locations? The mind boggles!

And clearly nobody in Chiang Mai could possibly have the skill and knowledge that the computer geniuses in Bangkok have. Making a program to put your name in a queue to go to ONE location is so impossibly complex that only the computer mavens in the nation's capital could possibly make it happen.

It's obvious you don't know a thing about computer systems. This is a centralized system designed and put in place in Bangkok. Of course, they're not going to give local offices the ability to make changes.

[anon467848]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

Just to clear up a popular fallacy - Chiang Mai is not Thailand's second largest city. It lies number 7 after Korat.

Bangkok 5,104,476 Samut Prakan 388,920 Mueang Nonthaburi 291,555 Udon Thani 247,231 Chon Buri 219,164 Nakhon Ratchasima 208,781 Chiang Mai 200,952

FYI, Largest cities in Thailand http://www.worldatlas.com/as/th/cities-in-thailand.html

[Jeffkp]

I'm baffled by the anger about the move. The airport location was small, cramped and chaotic. There was no parking. The small waiting area was hot and uncomfortable. I find the new office to be better organized, faster and much less stressful.

I guess haters are going to hate, no matter what....

[Just1Voice]

I'm afraid I gave up believing anything that comes from an Immigration spokesperson a long time ago.

Immigration offices are a gold mine for any ruling Government.CM is no exception.

It takes, on average, an officer 10-15 minutes to process a retirement extension.The online system had 10 slots for a whole day.

CM is Thailands second biggest city with a ratio of expats to Thais that would far exceed Bangkok.Go figure.

Just to clear up a popular fallacy - Chiang Mai is not Thailand's second largest city. It lies number 7 after Korat.

Bangkok 5,104,476 Samut Prakan 388,920 Mueang Nonthaburi 291,555 Udon Thani 247,231 Chon Buri 219,164 Nakhon Ratchasima 208,781 Chiang Mai 200,952

Source: Wikipedia.

№ Name Thai Province Population

(Jan 2015)^[1] Date, city designation 1 Bangkok (Krung Thep Maha Nakhon) กรุงเทพมหานคร Bangkok 5,782,159 1972-12-14 2 Nonthaburi นนทบุรี Nonthaburi 270,609 1995-09-23 3 Nakhon Ratchasima นครราชสีมา Nakhon Ratchasima 174,332 1995-09-23 4 Chiang Mai เชียงใหม่ Chiang Mai 174,235 1936-03-28 5 Hat Yai หาดใหญ่ Songkhla 157,467 1995-09-23 6 Udon Thani อุดรธานี Udon Thani 155,339 1995-09-23 7 Pak Kret ปากเกร็ด Nonthaburi 152,881 2000-02-16 8 Khon Kaen ขอนแก่น Khon Kaen 129,581 1995-09-23 9 Chaophraya Surasak เจ้าพระยาสุรศักดิ์ Chonburi 109,983

2013-05-01

[Oscar2]

And agents don't stand in line the same way as us normal people, that I can attest to.

But apparently we foreigners should be patient and polite

you too, can get a student who needs some extra cash to reserve a spot in the queue for you, or get a Thai wife to do it if you can't. no one says YOU have queue up.

yes, be patient and polite. or you will never get served. no visa extension. learn how to live here like the locals do. you are not special even though you may think you are.

[NancyL]

I attended the Chiang Mai Immigration presentation at the expat club. They all had an opportunity to speak. Without exception, immigration staff explained how immigration would improve once they relocated to Promenada. Once they made this historic move, the first thing I couldn't help notice was the online queue was shut down. Then of course the shortage of staff along with opening their own visa service next door to their office. Lets give this a little thought. They opened their own visa service right next door to their office.

Without the online queue which made it possible to show up at immigration with an actual appointment, expats now have to show up two to three hours before they open their office. The other choice is to use one of the many visa services or use their visa service. I don't know about you people but I don't see any incentive for immigration to use their online queue anymore or to improve their services.

CMNightRidger, maybe you should go back and listen to the entire Immigration presentation at CEC again (it's available on the CEC website), but there is no mention of a move to Promenada during that entire 45 minute presentation. At the time of that meeting (October 2014), Col. Rutjapong said he had submitted a request for a new building and, once approved we'd have a new building, with improved services within 2 years. That's near the beginning of the presentation and most people in the audience took it to mean we'd have a new building within two years. Nope -- listen closely.

Moving to Promenada was not the plan submitted to Bangkok. It was developed only after Bangkok turned down the request for a new building and he began to look for other options to relieve the problems at the location near the airport. Col. Rutjapong's frustration came thru in my discussion with him on Wednesday. Yes, he cares about his people, but he also cares about the quality of service they're providing to their customers. He has no budget use for the move and no support from Bangkok for programming, etc.

It's fortunate that Immigration has a very helpful "landlord" in Promenada. While some may dismiss amenities like working toilets, lights, and a nice assortment of shops that are open early, you've got to admit it's a big improvement over the old location. Since they've opened I would bet that anyone who was in the queue by 6:30 am was able to get a queue card for a retirement extension and during the last week I was there twice and they didn't give out all the queue cards for retirement extensions at opening, 8:30 am. The fact that there haven't been reports of any long queues or hissy fits this week tells me they're gradually working thru the opening pangs.

Yes, Immigration could have done a much better job with a little public relations (that would have cost them nothing) ahead of the move. Yes, there are definitely other improvements needed -- but I think the situation there at Promenada is such that there is more likelihood of those improvements happening than if they had stayed at the old location.

Edited September 15, 2015 by NancyL

[NancyL]

Just got an email from a friend at Prom. He arrived at 8:15 am to do a 90 day report, was at the end of the queue line. Got his queue ticket at 8:30 and they told him to return in 1 hour, so he went and had a nice breakfast at Rim Ping for under 100 baht. He returned at 9:30 am and they called his number within 2 minutes. He said everyone was nice and pleasant. He's going to stay and check out the mall.

Hardly rough treatment, is it? And sure beats the old location where he never could find a place to park or have a nice meal while waiting.

[LivinLOS]

About the on-line queue: Col. Rutjapong said it was discontinued because it can't accommodate two locations and generated many complaints. He said the programming is done in Bangkok.

Well, duh! Two locations? How on earth could that interweb computer thing be able to know how to book at TWO locations? The mind boggles!

And clearly nobody in Chiang Mai could possibly have the skill and knowledge that the computer geniuses in Bangkok have. Making a program to put your name in a queue to go to ONE location is so impossibly complex that only the computer mavens in the nation's capital could possibly make it happen.

It's obvious you don't know a thing about computer systems. This is a centralized system designed and put in place in Bangkok. Of course, they're not going to give local offices the ability to make changes.

and yet, when you made the reservation it had the type of non imm as one of the options..

So just send the retirement list to the retirement processing location.. The marriage list to the marriage location.. the Business list to the business location.. Etc..

Is that so hard ??

[northernjohn]

Just got an email from a friend at Prom. He arrived at 8:15 am to do a 90 day report, was at the end of the queue line. Got his queue ticket at 8:30 and they told him to return in 1 hour, so he went and had a nice breakfast at Rim Ping for under 100 baht. He returned at 9:30 am and they called his number within 2 minutes. He said everyone was nice and pleasant. He's going to stay and check out the mall.

Hardly rough treatment, is it? And sure beats the old location where he never could find a place to park or have a nice meal while waiting.

Well it sounds nice. But what if he dilly dallied around for three more minutes he would have lost his place in line.

Also I was wondering if the line for permission to stay is short because this was not a popular time of the year to

immigrate to Thailand. As you yourself have said 20 reports a day would not be enough to accommodate the over 5,000 they did last year. As mine is up in early October I know I have never had to be there before 7:30. Once in the last two years I got there at 9:00.