thats some slide,great moves by the rider to grab his girl.

[pokerkid]

I see that Carl gets his knickers all in a twist again. Been an instructor for 15 years bla bla bla, Trained thousands of people bla bla bla. Standards bla bla bla, studied bla bla bla. We heard it all many many times before here and it sounds like a stuck record , very tedious.

So your lack of intelligent comment leads your to gender digs does it? Well done that really demonstrates your knowledge of the subject.

doesn't change the fact that your posts are very tedious mate. btw, you been in the sas by any chance ?

Sorry not a fan of planes, prefer boats. Don't think the SAS has much call for motorcycle instructors anyway?

Did it not occur to you that maybe spending 30 years as a Instructor Trainer teaching mostly male Instructors that I have grown experienced at having conversations with men like this and am well practiced at it?

You used the word instructor 3 times in those 3 sentences, must be a new record for you.

Edited September 17, 2015 by pokerkid

[garryjohns]

thats some slide,great moves by the rider to grab his girl

Maybe more relevant headline would be;

thats some slide,great moves by the rider to maximise any possible spinal injury to his girl by forcefully yanking her helmet down...

[Briggsy]

My girlfriend says the driver is one fat, ugly bloke. I am not sure what bearing that has on the discussion but I thought I would add the female Thai perspective.

My own perspective is that one should take extra care when you have a pillion passenger. I am not convinced this rider did. However I am still not entirely sure how he managed to come down.

[andrewrooney]

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

[taninthai]

Criticizing other people us the easiest thing in the world to do.

[CarolJadzia]

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

That looks like a radial on the front and a cross-ply on the rear, that certainly will not help the handling, especially in the wet.

Illegal in the UK, but TiT!

[garryjohns]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

[macknife]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

[rws85]

^^^ You don't have to lean when cornering. Only the bike has to lean. He hit a strong stream of water crossing the road and it grabbed his front wheel?

Pretty sure this is an expert rider leaning into the corner.

[pokerkid]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

most likely only thing he can afford is the monthly payments

[Happy Grumpy]

Is there any indication of his speed at the time he goes down?

http://www.vkizz.com/%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%B4%E0%B9%8A%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%84%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%96%E0%B8%A5%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%97%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%97-%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%9D%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%B2-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%82%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B9%82%E0%B8%84%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%87-105-%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A1-%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%A1-%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%81/

[garryjohns]

Criticizing other people us the easiest thing in the world to do.

Yes it is and in this jerks case is well justified

120kph in the rain and on slick tyres and with a pillion to boot!

He needs more than criticizing he needs a good slapping!

[rws85]

He would be done for dangerous/reckless driving in Australia

[CarolJadzia]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

Really? You don't know much about motorcycle tyres do you?

It is not the depth or extent of tread that matters so much these days. I have just changed the rear tyre on my ZRX from one of these:-

It has excellent grip in the wet. Far better than many tyres I have ridden on with far more tread.

Don't see much tread on that and it's brand new. It is the rubber compound that is the important thing with modern radial tyres not the tread pattern.

The problem with mixing Radial and Cross-ply is the way the tyres flex when they grip the road. The odd tyres fitted would react differently and due to this would lead to reduced grip. This with a very wet road surface would cause the tyre to break away. As you can hear in the video the rear wheel spins out just as he comes out.

I have had the same thing happen to me on an old bike with cross-ply tyres when I hit a steel expansion plate on a motorway bridge, rear wheel spun out and put us at right angles to the motorway, it was only our mass still going the original direction that pulled us straight as the tyre gripped again.

So miss-match tyres with a cross-ply on the rear crossing a slippery wet surface . Now if you don't want to call it aquaplaning then call it what you like, but there is obviously a stream crossing the road just before he came off. So no change there. The only difference to my original comment is that he also has miss-matched tyres which would also add the the chance of slipping out. All the rest still applies.

[taninthai]

diablo supercorsa tyres have excellant grip in the rain,,,,,really? do you actually know anything about these tyres and what they are really used for.?

[CarolJadzia]

diablo supercorsa tyres have excellant grip in the rain,,,,,really? do you actually know anything about these tyres and what they are really used for.?

Yes thanks I do. Why what tyres would you recommend for a ZRX1100?

I got it cheap as someone had done a couple of laps on a track day and decided he wanted fresh tyres for his next play.

Would have them again if I could afford them.

Back to Conti Motions for the moment though.

Racetrack performance delivered with a fully street legal tyre

Road and Racetrack use on the same tyre

Bi-Compound rear to combine grip, stability and mileage

Innovative and exclusive Pirelli patented high modulus carcass fiber

http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/gb/en/motorcycle/sheet/diablo_supercorsa_sp.html

[taninthai]

yeah racetrack tyres that are street legal ,so where does say excellent grip in the wet.

They are excellent tyres rarely seen on the road because they are expensive , don't last long and are crap in the wet.

they are used in bsb race series and a favourite for track riders and racers.

and your telling others on this forum in your above post that they really don't know about tyres...

Edited September 17, 2015 by taninthai

[CarolJadzia]

yeah racetrack tyres that are street legal ,so where does say excellent grip in the wet.

They are excellent tyres rarely seen on the road because they are expensive , don't last long and are crap in the wet.

they are used in bsb race series and a favourite for track riders and racers.

and your telling others on this forum in your above post that they really don't know about tyres...

Really? I have spent years stuck with budget tyres, for the first twenty years of riding experience we didnt have radial tyres, the only choice was cross-plys.

Even my last training bike - a Kawasaki GTR1000 was stuck with cross-plys.

By comparison any radial is more grippy due to the softer rubber that can be used.

Now us English Instructors don't get paid a lot and tyre costs come out of our wages so buying the best grippy track tyres is out the window.

We need something that can do 3000 miles at least otherwise we will end up changing tyres every month or two. So we are stuck with touring tyres

such as the Continental Motions I mention above, they grip well long as you don't push them too much and they are more within our budgets.

So having something like a Supercorsa is a special occasion and yes it does grip better in the wet than a 'Conti-motion' and many other sports touring tyres I have used.

Maybe it's a psychological thing for me to think that? After all when I looked at the tread - or lack of tread, I asked my mate at the garage if it would grip in the wet, he just grinned and said go have a play. Now with the exception of GP8 Gymkhana practice I am not going to be racing round a racetrack any time soon. But what the supercorsa proved to me was I could trust a lack of tread in the rain.

[Briggsy]

In addition I have no reason to believe grabbing your pillion passenger in the event of a crash increases the likelihood of a positive outcome.

Perhaps someone could explain why it is a "great move" apart from the fact that it would be quite difficult to execute in the heat of the moment.

[canuckamuck]

Yes all he did was eliminate her ability to roll and slide defensively.

[macknife]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

Really? You don't know much about motorcycle tyres do you?

It is not the depth or extent of tread that matters so much these days. I have just changed the rear tyre on my ZRX from one of these:-

It has excellent grip in the wet. Far better than many tyres I have ridden on with far more tread.

Don't see much tread on that and it's brand new. It is the rubber compound that is the important thing with modern radial tyres not the tread pattern.

The problem with mixing Radial and Cross-ply is the way the tyres flex when they grip the road. The odd tyres fitted would react differently and due to this would lead to reduced grip. This with a very wet road surface would cause the tyre to break away. As you can hear in the video the rear wheel spins out just as he comes out.

I have had the same thing happen to me on an old bike with cross-ply tyres when I hit a steel expansion plate on a motorway bridge, rear wheel spun out and put us at right angles to the motorway, it was only our mass still going the original direction that pulled us straight as the tyre gripped again.

So miss-match tyres with a cross-ply on the rear crossing a slippery wet surface . Now if you don't want to call it aquaplaning then call it what you like, but there is obviously a stream crossing the road just before he came off. So no change there. The only difference to my original comment is that he also has miss-matched tyres which would also add the the chance of slipping out. All the rest still applies.

What are you talking about? By you own admission you say his rear tyre is not a radial so your point is meaningless. Even if what you say is true of radial tyres, it doesn't apply here as his bike didn't have one on the rear and that is what caused his slip.

So tell me. If it's all about the rubber and not the tread, then why do motogp riders fall down all over the place as soon as it starts raining? is it because their tyres have no tread? I would think so as when they switch to their wet bikes, their tyres have treads on them.

[Throttled]

The Super Corsas aren't terrible in the rain compared to other high-end sport tires, but there are much better tires for wet conditions. As has been noted, less tread (on a new tire- I'm not referring to a worn--out one) usually means more grip in dry conditions, but tires with more tread generally do better in the rain (search for a comparison picture of dry and wet track tires). The fact you're using track-day take-offs likely means the tires have been subjected to higher heat and greater cornering forces due to track conditions than they would ever be on the street, and are probably now somewhat hardened (due to excessive heat cycles) and are actually less effective than a new, fresh set (which is why the original owner sold them to you instead of re-using them). For a ZRX (1200?), Pilot Road 4's would be a much better choice for the riding you likely do, and will give a lot more than 3K miles.

Tread patterns are actually critically important for water dispersal in wet conditions.

[garryjohns]

In addition I have no reason to believe grabbing your pillion passenger in the event of a crash increases the likelihood of a positive outcome.

Perhaps someone could explain why it is a "great move" apart from the fact that it would be quite difficult to execute in the heat of the moment.

Yeh, that was, in reality, more of a coincidental coming together

He grabbed the girl so he could cry on her shoulder is about all...

[garryjohns]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

Really? You don't know much about motorcycle tyres do you?

It is not the depth or extent of tread that matters so much these days. I have just changed the rear tyre on my ZRX from one of these:-

It has excellent grip in the wet. Far better than many tyres I have ridden on with far more tread.

Don't see much tread on that and it's brand new. It is the rubber compound that is the important thing with modern radial tyres not the tread pattern.

The problem with mixing Radial and Cross-ply is the way the tyres flex when they grip the road. The odd tyres fitted would react differently and due to this would lead to reduced grip. This with a very wet road surface would cause the tyre to break away. As you can hear in the video the rear wheel spins out just as he comes out.

I have had the same thing happen to me on an old bike with cross-ply tyres when I hit a steel expansion plate on a motorway bridge, rear wheel spun out and put us at right angles to the motorway, it was only our mass still going the original direction that pulled us straight as the tyre gripped again.

So miss-match tyres with a cross-ply on the rear crossing a slippery wet surface . Now if you don't want to call it aquaplaning then call it what you like, but there is obviously a stream crossing the road just before he came off. So no change there. The only difference to my original comment is that he also has miss-matched tyres which would also add the the chance of slipping out. All the rest still applies.

I agree about the tyre grip from better rubber compounds etc, on dry roads, but for wet roads you must have sufficient tread to disperse the water first off ,so that the sticky tyre can then grip the road surface.

The more and deeper treads the better the effect of water dispersal.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Rimmer

[CarolJadzia]

What are you talking about? By you own admission you say his rear tyre is not a radial so your point is meaningless. Even if what you say is true of radial tyres, it doesn't apply here as his bike didn't have one on the rear and that is what caused his slip.

So tell me. If it's all about the rubber and not the tread, then why do motogp riders fall down all over the place as soon as it starts raining? is it because their tyres have no tread? I would think so as when they switch to their wet bikes, their tyres have treads on them.

I do not know it's not a radial, just looks like it from the pictures but cannot tell for sure.

Of course on a race track they will come in and change tyres the moment it rains. But us Bikers do not get that option. Being as many of us our skint and cannot afford super sticky tyres that last a month we compromise. Also for many years we push the limits, I cannot remember the amount of arguments I have had with police officers on the legality of my tyres. Normally comes with a discussion on the size on my number plate and the loudness of my exhaust.

Yes the tread is important but the tyre compounds are equally important and these days with Radials being able to run so much cooler than cross-plys the tread area has been reduced to give a larger footprint of rubber on the road.

It is not the tread that grips the road it is the rubber, the tread just helps get rid of the water.

If it is a cross-ply on the rear then the mix of cross-ply and radials will have a far greater effect on the bikes handling than just low tread.

[CarolJadzia]

The Super Corsas aren't terrible in the rain compared to other high-end sport tires, but there are much better tires for wet conditions. As has been noted, less tread (on a new tire- I'm not referring to a worn--out one) usually means more grip in dry conditions, but tires with more tread generally do better in the rain (search for a comparison picture of dry and wet track tires). The fact you're using track-day take-offs likely means the tires have been subjected to higher heat and greater cornering forces due to track conditions than they would ever be on the street, and are probably now somewhat hardened (due to excessive heat cycles) and are actually less effective than a new, fresh set (which is why the original owner sold them to you instead of re-using them). For a ZRX (1200?), Pilot Road 4's would be a much better choice for the riding you likely do, and will give a lot more than 3K miles.

Tread patterns are actually critically important for water dispersal in wet conditions.

In an ideal world.

Sorry I don't live there.

My bike is a ZRX1100 (not 12) and my choice of tyres is down to the best I can get in my price range.

The Conti's come recommended by many others and work well, they are also coming through on a good deal at the moment.

The only reason for the corsa was because I could not afford a new set on tyres at the time, beggars can't be choosers, least it got me legal.

My son has been riding round for three weeks on a bald rear tyre, has done two festivals in that time and a thousand miles riding with his bike club mates, many of those miles have been wet, typical British summer. His old XJ550 does not have radials, he still has the joys of cross-plys. But he has not killed himself - yet. I have repeatedly told him to sort it, but what 19 year old listens to their parents?

So yes, all you say about tyres is right, just that's not the world we live in.

[Gweiloman]

The Super Corsas aren't terrible in the rain compared to other high-end sport tires, but there are much better tires for wet conditions. As has been noted, less tread (on a new tire- I'm not referring to a worn--out one) usually means more grip in dry conditions, but tires with more tread generally do better in the rain (search for a comparison picture of dry and wet track tires). The fact you're using track-day take-offs likely means the tires have been subjected to higher heat and greater cornering forces due to track conditions than they would ever be on the street, and are probably now somewhat hardened (due to excessive heat cycles) and are actually less effective than a new, fresh set (which is why the original owner sold them to you instead of re-using them). For a ZRX (1200?), Pilot Road 4's would be a much better choice for the riding you likely do, and will give a lot more than 3K miles.

Tread patterns are actually critically important for water dispersal in wet conditions.

In an ideal world.

Sorry I don't live there.

My bike is a ZRX1100 (not 12) and my choice of tyres is down to the best I can get in my price range.

The Conti's come recommended by many others and work well, they are also coming through on a good deal at the moment.

The only reason for the corsa was because I could not afford a new set on tyres at the time, beggars can't be choosers, least it got me legal.

My son has been riding round for three weeks on a bald rear tyre, has done two festivals in that time and a thousand miles riding with his bike club mates, many of those miles have been wet, typical British summer. His old XJ550 does not have radials, he still has the joys of cross-plys. But he has not killed himself - yet. I have repeatedly told him to sort it, but what 19 year old listens to their parents?

So yes, all you say about tyres is right, just that's not the world we live in.

You are starting to give out dangerous advice and recommendations. Super corsa's great in the wet? You're having a laugh. Bear in mind that we are talking about conditions in Thailand, not the UK.

[ktm jeff]

Tires have "tread" to displace the water . This works to an extent , then you aquaplane . In the wet , correct tread ( and plenty of it ) , matters more than the rubber compound . Ive had a front tire "grabbed" by water , but off-road tires do behave differently . In the video , the rear tire spins-up . Lack of tread would cause aquaplaning . Also a "snatched" front wheel , that would de-stabalise the bike . When it rains - good tires , and slowly slowly .

[Gweiloman]

Tires have "tread" to displace the water . This works to an extent , then you aquaplane . In the wet , correct tread ( and plenty of it ) , matters more than the rubber compound . Ive had a front tire "grabbed" by water , but off-road tires do behave differently . In the video , the rear tire spins-up . Lack of tread would cause aquaplaning . Also a "snatched" front wheel , that would de-stabalise the bike . When it rains - good tires , and slowly slowly .

Best post on the subject! Looks to me exactly like what happened. Looks to me that he was running a super corsa on his front as well.

[Shurup]

10540918_938735822853050_3183956274996531300_n.jpg 11960254_938735829519716_5564146443161766779_n.jpg

Pic of the guy's bike from his facebook page, 2 weeks ago. Maybe not the best choice of tires for riding on the street in the rain?

If and i reiterate "if" he had the same tyres on when he lost it, the cause of the incident is very self evident.[iMO}

Exactly, the tread on those tyres are almost gone. If you listen carefully it sounds like he started to accelerate just before the crash. With almost zero grip on those tyres it seems the rear tyre just lost traction and turned him around.

So we can put to bed all the rubbish about aqua-planing and leaning to bed now... can we?

You'd think a guy that can afford a bike like this should be able to buy some new tyres.

most likely only thing he can afford is the monthly payments

This bike is a z800 which isn't very expensive at 385k thb. Not saying people don't buy them on monthly payments though.

Another comment regarding the bike is its very heavy and lacks any safety features like TC or ABS.