'Defrauded by my wife and criminals in Thailand' - BBC special report

[BwindiBoy]

Shameful country, full of liars in high places.

Edited September 19, 2015 by BwindiBoy

[F4UCorsair]

What ells is new ?????....there is always that thing that's called common sense....1

Common sense.........the least common of the senses.

[BwindiBoy]

you can only trust your mother because she is the one who carried you

Her THREE children must be very confused then...

[benalibina]

you can only trust your mother because she is the one who carried you

not my kids.

[Dustdevil]

criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world

Yes, we know that all countries have crime. So that means all countries are the same? You're taking cultural relativity to an anti-analytical extreme.

[gregk0543]

wow. What an amazing thread.

"I am the owner of my own kamma, the heir to my own kamma, my own kamma is the cause of whatever happens to me.

Whatever kamma I do good or bad of that I will become the heir."

If there is justice in the world this is the only way it would work for surely some humans are always thinking that stealing someone elses wealth will make them happy.

I have seen them become rich but not happy.

If this happened to me would it be because of my own bad kamma I have done in this life or in the past?

Would I have enough good kamma to pick myself up and keep going?

There is no justice in courts but there maybe justice in the court room of life. ..... Unless you see the whole story over time maybe you do not see the whole story.

[Time Traveller]

Just another example of never buying property in Thailand and never Invest any Money in anything here ...

Fools and their money will always get seperated, no matter what country they live in.

[puukao]

this will NEVER happen to me...

i've now decided on where to retire!!!! Phuket it is!!!!

Fast forward to 2029: Dear Friends, I am in desperate need for money.....

Fast forward to 2189: Another tourist moves to Phuket with all his hard-earned money

hard come, easy go.........ouch.

[Nip]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

"so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?" - guessing you look like the Greek god Adonis? "People who live in glass houses......."

actually yes, i am very good looking. i grew up in Hollywood, that is why i can see this shit a mile away. I don't fall in love with the first beautiful girl I meet in Thailand because I have been with beautiful girls all my life.

I am not trying to experience something I never have before. I feel really badly for the guys who are suddenly for the first time in their lives "handsome". it is like a powerful drug. and you just want the lie to go on and on.

I am saying DON'T BE PLAYED. STAY IN CONTROL and be happy KNOWING IT IS FALSE.

It must be wonderful to be you? So clever, worldly and modest too.

[Nip]

so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?

sorry to say, just look at the body language and expression on this wife's face in all the photos.

in the first 30 seconds you hear him say "... I was looking for a place with rule of law..."

are you completely clueless? everything in this video is what I found on google seven years ago on the first day researching Thailand. He must have never done a moments research.

I am sure Ian has a big heart, loved his wife and is a good and trusting person.

But you must have a healthy dose of paranoia to survive in Thailand.

Don't get married! Don't "buy" land. Assume nothing.

"so super over weight Ian could not see this coming?" - guessing you look like the Greek god Adonis? "People who live in glass houses......."

actually yes, i am very good looking. i grew up in Hollywood, that is why i can see this shit a mile away. I don't fall in love with the first beautiful girl I meet in Thailand because I have been with beautiful girls all my life.

I am not trying to experience something I never have before. I feel really badly for the guys who are suddenly for the first time in their lives "handsome". it is like a powerful drug. and you just want the lie to go on and on.

I am saying DON'T BE PLAYED. STAY IN CONTROL and be happy KNOWING IT IS FALSE.

It must be wonderful to be you? So clever, worldly, handsome and modest too.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

It is simply about fraud and the collusion of the authorities that are meant to protect you. The cheating, corrupt, scheming authorities. Did you see the "lawyer" who witnessed a signature without the signatory being present. How obscene is this? The Phuket lawyers for Colin who actually forged his signature. The removal of vital evidence by the police....their absolute refusal to allow police reports against their fellow officers and fellow cheats. The lawyer, paid an absolute fortune, who didn't manage to get a single property back....yet alone a stick of furniture. The dissolution of a property company without the main directors knowledge yet alone his consent.

The extent of the fraud and the number of those who colluded is very frightening indeed. The money we are talking about here extends to well over 2 million, yes million, euro. They were both robbed of their properties and it is accepted that the signatories on many documents have been forged. So why are the transactions not put aside by a court, reversed and the properties returned to their rightful owners???

The main issue for me is that not one single person or agency in Phuket or Bangkok said ...stop! This is wrong and needs to be put right. Not a single agency gave any real and genuine help. Note the police chief on the BBC programme who promised help and 4 months later he hasn't lifted a finger. My congratulations to Jonathan Head and the BBC for running this. However the programme concentrated mainly on Ian and Colins story is perhaps more horrifying.

Have you any idea of what it is like to travel to Phuket 50 times to have your case adjourned again, and again and again for no logical reason other than to wear you down with the defendants hoping that you run out of money. The chief justice on Phuket is on record as saying cases must not be adjourned many times and must be heard. Useless....another sheep with no teeth. This is Thai "justice". Have you ever being in a court where the defendant is allowed four pages of evidence to be admitted when Colin is refused a single word? Why did the judge allow, in yet another case, verbal testimony from the defendants and refuse, absolutely refuse, to hear a single word from the plaintiff, Colin.

Both partners are serving jail terms for fraud....in Colins case his partner is serving 17 years. The Phuket judge in the criminal case (seemingly about the only one competent to rule over a case) stated it was fraud that was perpetrated on Colin. In any country in the world the burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than that for a civil case. You would therefore imagine, and perhaps take for granted, that any civil action afterwards would be a formality. It has been anything but for both there victims of appalling crimes.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

When previously posting on this forum, Ian claimed that he had a legal background; working in arbitration in the UK.

He should therefore, be aware of the following legal maxim:

He who comes into equity must come with clean hands

It is often stated that one who comes into equity must come with clean hands (or alternatively, equity will not permit a party to profit by his own wrong). In other words, if you ask for help about the actions of someone else but have acted wrongly, then you do not have clean hands and you may not receive the help you seek.

Ian set up a Thai company, to hold Thai property, with himself holding the majority of the directors voting rights. It would seem that he started this journey by seeking to circumnavigate Thai law, and then squeals when he does not receive justice.

Edited September 19, 2015 by Bulldozer Dawn

[Nip]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

As you know them,

You can tell us how he imagined a 20 year old slim woman could ever love a guy that old and that big?

What was he thinking?

He has now wasted a further 5 years of his life, and large amounts of money, on a hopeless cause.

Not to mention risking his life every time he enters Thailand.

That isn't brave, that's stupid IMHO.

Hopeless cause......You have the gift of foresight? Maybe you could give me next weeks Euromillions numbers?

He/they and many oithers like them had trust in the system and had no idea this could go so horribly wrong with so many corruption.

If he was, say, black would you also ask why she would possibly marry a black man. Or maybe he is disabled....why would she possibly marry a disabled person.

Keep your vile prejudices away from this forum and anywhere else.

Mae Jo you must exist in a perfect world? Then again maybe not because you have time to pass inane uneducated comments here. You should write a book detailing your theories on love. What if she was fat and he was slim? Would that work in your perfect world. Get a grip and some humanity. Fall in love you seem decidedly frustrated. Love is not a mathematical equation it is a feeling that you clearly have never experienced.

[Nip]

I personally know Ian Rance and Colin Vard and have an intimate knowledge of the whole sorry mess.

The core issue here is not age, size, or whether they should have seen the end result. Good on you clever street wise guys here with crystal balls....it's about all the balls you have.

It is simply about fraud and the collusion of the authorities that are meant to protect you. The cheating, corrupt, scheming authorities. Did you see the "lawyer" who witnessed a signature without the signatory being present. How obscene is this? The Phuket lawyers for Colin who actually forged his signature. The removal of vital evidence by the police....their absolute refusal to allow police reports against their fellow officers and fellow cheats. The lawyer, paid an absolute fortune, who didn't manage to get a single property back....yet alone a stick of furniture. The dissolution of a property company without the main directors knowledge yet alone his consent.

The extent of the fraud and the number of those who colluded is very frightening indeed. The money we are talking about here extends to well over 2 million, yes million, euro. They were both robbed of their properties and it is accepted that the signatories on many documents have been forged. So why are the transactions not put aside by a court, reversed and the properties returned to their rightful owners???

The main issue for me is that not one single person or agency in Phuket or Bangkok said ...stop! This is wrong and needs to be put right. Not a single agency gave any real and genuine help. Note the police chief on the BBC programme who promised help and 4 months later he hasn't lifted a finger. My congratulations to Jonathan Head and the BBC for running this. However the programme concentrated mainly on Ian and Colins story is perhaps more horrifying.

Have you any idea of what it is like to travel to Phuket 50 times to have your case adjourned again, and again and again for no logical reason other than to wear you down with the defendants hoping that you run out of money. The chief justice on Phuket is on record as saying cases must not be adjourned many times and must be heard. Useless....another sheep with no teeth. This is Thai "justice". Have you ever being in a court where the defendant is allowed four pages of evidence to be admitted when Colin is refused a single word? Why did the judge allow, in yet another case, verbal testimony from the defendants and refuse, absolutely refuse, to hear a single word from the plaintiff, Colin.

Both partners are serving jail terms for fraud....in Colins case his partner is serving 17 years. The Phuket judge in the criminal case (seemingly about the only one competent to rule over a case) stated it was fraud that was perpetrated on Colin. In any country in the world the burden of proof in a criminal case is higher than that for a civil case. You would therefore imagine, and perhaps take for granted, that any civil action afterwards would be a formality. It has been anything but for both there victims of appalling crimes.

Shame on you Thailand and all of those who refuse to help and are in a position to do so. Very very few of you uncaring idiots here with little to offer, other than pathetic suggestions and criticism, would have the brains and stamina and courage have stood up to these vile criminals for 5 years now.

When previously posting on this forum, Ian claimed that he had a legal background; working in arbitration in the UK.

He should therefore, be aware of the following legal maxim:

He who comes into equity must come with clean hands

It is often stated that one who comes into equity must come with clean hands (or alternatively, equity will not permit a party to profit by his own wrong). In other words, if you ask for help about the actions of someone else but have acted wrongly, then you do not have clean hands and you may not receive the help you seek.

Ian set up a Thai company, to hold Thai property, with himself holding the majority of the directors voting rights. It would seem that he started this journey by seeking to circumnavigate Thai law, and then squeals when he does not receive justice.

Right then best you contact the Bank of Thailand, all the estate agents, newspapers and media outlets advertising property for sale. The lawyers, land office and courts. Good you've got that sorted! Oh dont forget the Phuket Governor who last year invited foreign investment. And while your at it close down Phuket too. Bet you can change hands without missing a stroke?

[Guy360]

Its amazing just how balanced (unbitter) he is about the whole thing -- you get used to reading people ranting on here about the loss of half of a 2nd hand car when their marriage & relationship with their children is falling apart.

I do hope that shinning the spotlight on it once again (his case has been aired here before ---links to YouTube etc) gives him some help.

I have mentioned it before---its not fool proof but where are your (ownership papers) Chanuk--- its a lot more difficult to be cheated if they are in a safe deposit box, (or even with a friend)

It means new papers have to be applied for at land office----the loss has to be reported to the police--affidavit signed at land office .....etc ...etc.

Fraud occurs worldwide and is not only in Thailand. All important papers should be kept in a safe deposit box as oxo1947 posted. Never invest all of your eggs in one basket...diversify. Inspect what you expect at all times. Be prudent in your business matters and keep your money and investments in areas in which you have full control. Keep much of your money outside of Thailand or anywhere else you may have retired to.

Most of all, never invest more than you can afford to lose, both economically and emotionally.

One simple addition Thailand can do in regard to transfer of ownership of property is to:

1) Use fingerprints along with signatures

2) Have insured and government approved Title companies handle all purchases and transfers and that they be considered liable under any fraud.

[Joe Bloggs1]

The same sort of thing goes on in Morocco so perhaps the BBC could do a programme over there? Someone that I know got involved with a Moroccan woman. EVERYONE except him could see what was going to happen but they do say that love is blind! Allegedly the man even paid a cleric to convert him to Islam so that he could get married but then his fiancee jilted him!

As he needed a car out there he bought a Peugeot 306 HDi (production of these ceased in about 2002 but in desert they don't rust much) The cost including new shock absorbers was the equivalent of £5000! As he is not Moroccan it was much simpler to put the car in his fiancee's name but legally this means that he has given it to her and then she jilted him!

He called me on a borrowed mobile from hospital. His medication had run out and he was in a very bad way with bleeding from the soles of his feet, in addition his visa only had a few days left so the prospects of becoming an Illegal Immigrant loomed large. As requested I called the Foreign Office who were absolutely brilliant. The officer said "I don't want to get his visa extended, I want him back in the UK where he can get proper treatment! The female Civil Servant added "I get this all the time!" (love-struck middle-aged men being taken to the cleaners and having a mid life crisis) so there you go, government confirmation of the MO out there. Often the gold-digger will be supporting an extended family so be warned!

[USNret]

Wait, what?? Watch to the end of the video, and he's back in Phuket with a new Thai wife & a new baby, plus the 3 other kids. Sad as his story is, he still hasn't learned.

[gigman]

Why to buy anything in lawless country when renting is much better solution and safer.....in any situation.

[SPB65]

It seems to be a fight for justice in a country where there isn't any and doubly so if you're a farang. Thais and money are the worst possible combination and it rarely ends well. Good luck to him though.

[Alan poole]

The alternative is A) rent don't buy. his property can be had for $-1.5 K US/ Month

.Invest your cash in property in US, Aus, UK,which shoud net Appx $5-7K/month

Have the property manager deposit the Net/net into a bank there where you are known,

Transfer to Schwab 1 via your bill pay, have schwab transfer to Local Bank (Kasicorn etc. 3 months worth of expenses at a time. Keep your banking contact info in a password protected file on yor laptop

Important. TEL NO ONE!

No Thai would be able figure THAT ALL out.

Banks keep personal metrics so no Thai could ever impersonate you with their Toddler- level English

[NOC]

There are almost 32,000 views on this topic. I hope it doubles!

People need to learn that the deck is stacked against them here. From the laws in place, right down to the people working in teams to set you up for the con, it's a concerted effort.

[NOC]

Its amazing just how balanced (unbitter) he is about the whole thing -- you get used to reading people ranting on here about the loss of half of a 2nd hand car when their marriage & relationship with their children is falling apart.

I do hope that shinning the spotlight on it once again (his case has been aired here before ---links to YouTube etc) gives him some help.

I have mentioned it before---its not fool proof but where are your (ownership papers) Chanuk--- its a lot more difficult to be cheated if they are in a safe deposit box, (or even with a friend)

It means new papers have to be applied for at land office----the loss has to be reported to the police--affidavit signed at land office .....etc ...etc.

Fraud occurs worldwide and is not only in Thailand. All important papers should be kept in a safe deposit box as oxo1947 posted. Never invest all of your eggs in one basket...diversify. Inspect what you expect at all times. Be prudent in your business matters and keep your money and investments in areas in which you have full control. Keep much of your money outside of Thailand or anywhere else you may have retired to.

Most of all, never invest more than you can afford to lose, both economically and emotionally.

One simple addition Thailand can do in regard to transfer of ownership of property is to:

1) Use fingerprints along with signatures

2) Have insured and government approved Title companies handle all purchases and transfers and that they be considered liable under any fraud.

Simpletons run a muck here. Simple solutions, not so much...

[freedom4life]

Look at him, look at her.

Everyone can see what's gonna happen ........ except him.

Question from interviewer, "What would you say to people that want to come here?"

Answer from me, "Don't marry a woman 1/3 your weight and 1/2 your age and expect her to love you or be trustworthy"

This isn't rocket science.

Let's say the numbers were more balanced...can you trust her then? What would you say if she did the same thing Jack?

[englishoak]

It shouldn't be missed this is the BBC, not some minor media site and would have taken some official advisement before deciding to release this, sensitive such as things are at the moment here.

The message couldnt be clearer to UK expats or people thinking of retiring to Thailand.

The BBC is sending a message on behalf of UK.gov to the general public, real simple.If you get in trouble your on your own, the UK gov cant help you and most likely the Thai system wont.

[heybuz]

now this bloke must not have lost all,he is not crying poor ,maybe just maybe he is doing this out of a sense of justice and to leave his kids better off,i think thats his motivation

[elgenon]

I can't comprehend how a woman would have 3 kids with someone she doesn't care about. Hey. but that's just me. So sad.

[Stargeezr]

I guess this fellow will be a lot less trustful in the future, at least I certainly would. I seen this happen to a Canadian Ex pat in

Phuket, years ago. He owned a business there, went on a holiday back to Canada, upon his return his restaurant was

closed as the wife, had sold off all the food, that was in the freezers, then sold off the furnishings, and left the place vacant.

His house was a bit bare as well, so he had to re purchase furnishings and food to start up again. He was most fortunate that

he was able to recover, and worked with his brother in law, partner for several years to get his money back.

I feel fortunate that I have never lived in Thailand since my marriage, and I have not had this guy's bad luck.

[ronthai]

WOW, I just got back on this topic from earlier yesterday when it had only 3 pages, now it is up to 15 pages.

Honestly I did not read page 4 to 14, just the ones on this page 15

Sad really farangs/TV-members ... A fool and his money, bla bla

Sad really farangs/TV-members ... He should have known better, bla bla

Sad really farangs/TV-members ... Older overweight farang with beautiful woman, bla bla

Sad really farangs/TV-members ... The lack of support from farang to farang, NO bla bla

Sad really farangs/TV-members ... I am not that "stupid" will never happen to me

You know why for decades Thais and Thai culture/system has gotten away with these fraud, scams, theft and everything else, costing money, towards farangs?

WELL DO YOU ... The farang community has accepted it

WELL DO YOU ... The farang community does NOT stand together

WELL DO YOU ... The farang community are mostly jealous of eachother

<deleted>

There are plenty of more:

Sad really farangs/TV-members ...

and

WELL DO YOU ... The farang community

but you get the picture.

I consider myself a decent guy with both feet strong standing. I have made a few small mistakes in the past 12 years I live here.

They where only small mistakes, because I never had any real money to loose, but the little I had, I did foolish things with sometimes.

Guess most here are too scared to admit they made mistakes with Thai girls/boys and it cost them money.

[MAJIC]

Good piece by the BBC in covering this kind of corruption in Thailand.

It is very clear there is no law in this country.

Our dear PM should watch this - he might finally take some action on all this corruption he promise dot get rid off.

Dont hold your breath!

[ronthai]

Just imagine what could happen, next time a farang in any tourist city would need to go to court for any good reason and a large farang group 50-100-500-1000 would be outside the court house demonstrating for honest and swift action.

The first time nothing much, the Thai would think what the hell is this.

10 farang court cases later ...

... Open to ideas and suggestions.

I would support a farang in a demonstration at the court house/police station, IF I was convinced his cause is just. WHAT ABOUT YOU, or are you to busy drinking and ffff the girls?

[ZuluSixNine]

criminal energy is not only in Thailand, happened around the world

The only difference is that the people of Thailand are masters at it, I have seen many Thais, do the same thing to other Thais, however it is considered extremely geang mak mak !! if you do it to a Farung.