Forensic team to testify in Koh Tao murder trial

[GOLDBUGGY]

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Don't feel bad Fab99 as I never got that either.

Just another rumor started here by the regulars.

[Luang]

I'm thinking if the prosecution is going to keep dickin around and not release full documentation for a clear and open analysis by the defense...it might be about time to reveal that coroner's report from the UK. It seems like the prosecution are in the final 10 seconds of a basketball game...they have the ball and are passing it around to run out the clock.

Sounds like a good idea but apparently the UK agreed with Thailand that the report would not be made public,, so we will never know what is in it. All we know from the UK press is that the forensic team in the UK have some "serious" issues about the Thai pathologist report and that they felt it was their duty to present to the court in Thailand.

It was definitely suggested it would help the case of the defence, but we will probably never know.

I know some of it but was scolded for mentioning maybe this and maybe that.. So I deleted it. It will come out in the inquest anyway. They cant keep it quiet forever. Freedoms in the UK allow people to know the truth at some point.

People in the UK should be furnished with the truth now, not some point in the future. If I was planning on a holiday to Koh Tao I would want to be reassured by the UK Government that they had done everything possible in their power to ensure that they were 100% confident that the evil people that committed the horrendous crimes on their citizens only a year ago were not still free to repeat their deeds. What benefit is it to anyone to withhold such vital information?

Why, business interests between the two countries of course! Why do you think the UK Police went over, did nuthin and then went back and told the families all was well with the investigation. And they should be ashamed of themselves for doing so!!

I think I read 160 million pounds of weapons inmlast few years and they also need the RTP on their side to pick up UK criminals. Its about u scratch by back and will scratch yours.

Oh the irony huh. Let's hope they sleep well in their beds then, needs must and all that!

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Just finished full days defense witness testimony at Koh Samui court today. Hope that my testimony contributes to justice in Koh Tao case

[StealthEnergiser]

[loonodingle]

There are things about this case you seem to be forgetting. For example full confessions of both the accused after their DNA from a Cigarette Butt matched that of what was found inside of Hannah. Then when their DNA was taken separately and it to matched with Hannah. How odd and strange it is for me to think that 2 accused are questioned in 2 separate locations yet there stories match identically. Agreeing on what Win did on that night in question and also what Lin did.

Then when asked what happened to David Miller's Mobile Phone one of the accused said he found it in David Miller's pants pocket and gave it to a friend to hold. When this friend was questioned, sure enough he had it. He said he became suspicious of it so he destroyed it and threw it behind his living quarters, and where it was found by Police. A Mobile Phone that was surely worth something at least.

Then by their own admission you have the 2 accused on the beach very near the crime scene at or near the time of the murders. Both without alibi's except each other. Both admitting to drinking alcohol their at intoxicating levels. So what the Prosecution starts out with is 2 full Confessions, DNA evidence matching the accused to Hannah, a Mobile Phone that the accused confessed in taking form David Miller's Pants Pocket and giving to a friend, both having the opportunity to commit this crime as both admitted to being on the beach at or near the time of the rape and murder, both without alibis except from each other, and a motive, after the discovery of Hannah being raped before she was murdered.

All is quiet for near a week even after a visit from the Legal Counsel and members of the Myanmar Embassy but this Media attention has brought out some high profile Defense Team willing to work pro-bono. Then suddenly everything changes. This confessions become forced confession under torture, when nobody has come forward and admitted any such occurrence. The Translator was not competent and yet the 2 accused fully understood they signed a confession. That they did not understand that they signed permission to collect DNA Sample from them when a simple visit to the Justice of the Peace would have forced them to anyway, even if they had to be tied to a chair.

Then this Mobile Phone they first admitted getting from David Miller's Pant Pocket changes to, It becomes a Mobile Phone they found on the beach that night, in the dark, when they admitted they didn't see anyone else their. The witness changed his testimony to. He no longer destroyed it and got rid of it because he became suspicious of it, he now destroyed it and got rid of it because it didn't work. Who would destroy and expensive Mobile Phone given to him by a friend to hold, and without their permission I will never know.

Even the clothes and shoe(s) found at the crime scene that didn't belong to Hannah or David and that the accused said they were never their. They knew that this would be surely be tested for DNA, but that didn't matter as they already had an explanation for that to. They went swimming and although they did not see anyone, their clothes and shoes were stolen. So if the DNA turned out to be theirs well, the murderers must have planted them their to accuse them. For two guys with very little to next to none formal education, they sure got their ducks in a row in a hurry.

How many more times are people going to continue making this false statement that everything is lost. Just a couple of weeks ago almost everyone here was claiming that Hannah's clothes was lost. Then Dr. Pornthip questions why her clothes weren't DNA Tested. The clothes everyone said was missing. She also question why the blood in the sand wasn't tested either. Little did she know at this time that a few weeks earlier the Defense Lawyer was happy they could get this sandy blood for retesting. How can you retest something that was never tested before? How would you know any of this if there was no documentation on this DNA, which everyone keeps saying it doesn't exist?

Then you have the hoe. Dr. Pornthip's Lab finding DNA on this hoe, which was known to have been moved from the crime scene, and in which anyone could have touched it afterwards, saying they found DNA on it. Then alleged by the Media Dr. Pornthip telling the Police they need to get to the bottom of who these people are. Since when does the Forensic Expert tell the Police in any country how to handle an investigation?

But no need to do that as the Defense quickly found out or knew who's DNA it was anyway. The Forensic Lab guy, working for Dr. Pornthip claims it belongs to Hannah and David. Go Figure? Just another one of those strange coincidences. How they got Hannah's DNA and also Davids remains a mystery which the media doesn't seem to want to find out.

Which brings me to my last point in all this DNA from the Prosecution that many claim was tainted, destroyed, corrupt, lost, not documented, and so on. I don't think anyone here knows for sure what is left. We do know from the Prosecution Forensic Team said that all DNA was Replicated. Now this will draw many to explain this in over 1,000 Words why this is no damned good, but I only have One Logical question concerning this.

If Replicated DNA is no damned good then why do Forensic Labs Replicate it in the first place? Surely, if it can't be used again as many claim, they would not bother with this. But then from people who think that the entire Police Force from the Lowest Man on the street to the Highest General, and the entire Forensic Lab, would all lie and put to innocent men to their death for no good reason, what would you expect.

I hope you read that last link here from this case in which the Media say (by-the-way) even with David and Hannah's DNA on the hoe, surely David couldn't have done this otherwise he would be a suspect. Right! Then people here have the nerve to call me Defender of the RTP and that you stand up here for justice for Hannah and David.

Yeah! I am sure you all think you do. .

My opinion. Garbage.

I couldn't even bring myself to read it Stephen....

I block him and AleG, but when they are quoted their post is visible, but this one was so full of bullshit that I just partially read it, I wanted to answer it point by point, to not let mistakes and lies like that unanswered, but I gave up and now the post is far... unless we quote it, then it resurfaces, which we just did.... Three times in a row...

I seem to have missed the info about the coroner report given to GB was it a private message (if so, could I get it too?) or public on this thread, strange that it didn't create any discussion.

Don't feel bad Fab99 as I never got that either.

Just another rumor started here by the regulars.

Do u believe the rubbish you write. Have you no scruples.

You spouted off the coroner had broken the law etc etc she shoukd be this and that. So Madaussie suggested yiu write to her to find out whats going on. You refused so he wrote to her and pasted the letter and reply. Fab just couldn't be bothered to read backwards in the thread.

[thailandchilli]

Lawyers in Thai murder trial accuse police of incompetence

Defence lawyers working on the trial of the two men accused of murdering David Miller in Thailand, have alleged police incompetence and mishandling of evidence.

Now they have enlisted the help of a CCTV expert in Britain to look at footage used as evidence, who will be giving a statement today.

http://www.itv.com/news/channel/2015-09-23/lawyers-in-thai-murder-trial-accuse-police-of-incompetence/

[borisloosebrain]

Yo David Cameron let's make a deal : you release the UK report and you get a years a supply of dead pigs in return.

[IslandLover]

A wider angle for you..

Hannah-Witheridge-FB-v2-hoe-web.jpg

Thanks. But so you see the sharp edges/angles on that piece of wood that was lying there and the police picked up? And compare that to the other photos where the wood appears to have been rounded at the edges? And the angle that the wood is lying is different on the different pics. Makes me wonder why the police were happy to have that little bit of investigating filmed?

Personally I don't' think that there was a hammer in either picture and that the change in angle simply resulted in someone standing the hoe more upright against the fence and subsequently changing the perspective. I think the "rounding" of the edges is a trick of light.

Surely, what is more telling is that the alleged murder weapon is still to be found there, in the garden, caked in blood, how many hours after the crime was discovered? It was certainly long enough to assemble many film crews and journalists and to get that "bigwig" RTP showman to the island for his photoshoot!!

Should not the hoe have been bagged, tagged and taken away into evidence for safe storage and chain of custody process as soon as the first responders were on the scene? Certainly not hours later so that valuable evidence could possibly deteriorate or be compromised just so some RTP cretin can get his 15 minutes of fame?

A further example of how police work (sic) comes very much second to Thai politics and glory grabbing.

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[fab99]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Just finished full days defense witness testimony at Koh Samui court today. Hope that my testimony contributes to justice in Koh Tao case

<SARCASM ON> He sure sounds like an awful human being... what a self promoting, selfish bast#. He should go back to his country and let the professionals do their job like they are used to do<SARCASM OFF>

Thanks StealthEnergiser for often providing useful links and tweets.

[StealthEnergiser]

Follow

Andy Hall‏@Atomicalandy

Family of murdered UK backpacker sit in on final trial sessions http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/16627-family-of-murdered-uk-backpacker-sit-in-on-final-trial-sessions.html …

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

[IslandLover]

Follow

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Looks like further obstruction by the RTP. Surely this case cannot conclude on Friday? What has happened with the day the Prosecution took from the Defence (1st September)? Are the Defence going to get this day back for their witnesses? Wei Phyo still has to testify and Zaw Lin hasn't even been cross-examined yet.

[thailandchilli]

Stealth, I admire your optimism but it's not realistic. No heads will roll, no face will be lost, and no changes will be made. They couldn't care less about what we think, it's all about Thailand.

Steven , I understand your reasoning but I am still not that convinced that nothing will happen.

Surely PM Prayuth will take some action as he is the one who said something like "they better not be using scapegoats"

I also have high hopes on this however its not so much to do with the dear Junta. The judges now have the UK autopsy report which according to the defense contains significant new evidence that will discredit the RTP case.

The judges know this will be made public in the not too distant future and will need to consider it carefully before making a decision. Otherwise this whole thing will blow up again right in their faces. Perhaps they don't care about that? I hope they do.

[thailandchilli]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Yes all ears do you have anything inbetween? Obviously not able to read the last posts on this subject are you?

[fireplay]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

You certainly must not be interested in the made up dna bs because that sure wasn't ...ahem...properly presented in the court now was it!

[fireplay]

Follow

45]

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Looks like further obstruction by the RTP. Surely this case cannot conclude on Friday? What has happened with the day the Prosecution took from the Defence (1st September)? Are the Defence going to get this day back for their witnesses? Wei Phyo still has to testify and Zaw Lin hasn't even been cross-examined yet.

Disgusting yet seemingly effective strategy...run the clock out. Very common in sports.

Whats with the time limits anyway?

[fab99]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Did you read the Coroner's answer that MadAussie forwarded not long ago? It made things clearer, but I will help you with that :

The evidence (said to be contradicting the Thai autopsy) will eventually be made public, but the enquiry is still ongoing so it can't be for now.

As it was seemed to be helpful to the defense though (in a murder/rape case, punishable by death...), it was forwarded privately so that the judges could have a look at it and include it in their decision making.

I know you and AleG don't like that fact, but that is the way it is, and as far as I am concerned, anything that can shed some tangible light on what happened should be considered, and not only a selection that helps to justify just one scenario presented in this trial (which seems totally wrong now, if you look at it with enough clarity).

[Fat Haggis]

I have yet to see this "the defendants have a case to answer to" as NOTHING presented by the prosecution was anywhere near convincing enough to obtain a conviction anywhere , well perhaps apart from Thailand !!

The witnesses on both sides were more character references, no disrespect to the outstanding work Andy Hall does, but really what was the point in him being a defence "witness" he wasn't there and wasn't involved with the crime.

Same with several prosecution witnesses!! To say this trial has been bizarre is an understatement!! To say the investigation was thorough and well presented is anything but.

To say the RTP have been honest and sincere and factually correct with their investigation is an out and out falacy zippy and bungle from rainbow have more credibility!! And yet still couple of posters believe this has been the perfect case... I must be confused as this has been far from perfect not even close, not even 10% complete, a travesty really, the victims families must be wondering what the fexk is going on!!

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Yes all ears do you have anything inbetween?

Back with the insults again are we?

[fireplay]

I have yet to see this "the defendants have a case to answer to" as NOTHING presented by the prosecution was anywhere near convincing enough to obtain a conviction anywhere , well perhaps apart from Thailand !!

The witnesses on both sides were more character references, no disrespect to the outstanding work Andy Hall does, but really what was the point in him being a defence "witness" he wasn't there and wasn't involved with the crime.

Same with several prosecution witnesses!! To say this trial has been bizarre is an understatement!! To say the investigation was thorough and well presented is anything but.

To say the RTP have been honest and sincere and factually correct with their investigation is an out and out falacy zippy and bungle from rainbow have more credibility!! And yet still couple of posters believe this has been the perfect case... I must be confused as this has been far from perfect not even close, not even 10% complete, a travesty really, the victims families must be wondering what the fexk is going on!!

I agree...character witness... where the heck are the friends of the victims?

[thailandchilli]

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Yes all ears do you have anything inbetween?

Back with the insults again are we?

Try reading the last posts on this and then get back to me with the truth rather than your fabricated fantasy, it has been presented to the court............read man

[fab99]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

You certainly must not be interested in the made up dna bs because that sure wasn't ...ahem...properly presented in the court now was it!

GB : A rod for your own back. ( I know this expression is correct in French, but it seems it is also used in English not sure...)

[Fat Haggis]

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45]

Jonathan Head‏@pakhead

At #kohtao murder trial today. Defence have Aust forensic expert but she can't testify till police show documents that back their DNA tests

Looks like further obstruction by the RTP. Surely this case cannot conclude on Friday? What has happened with the day the Prosecution took from the Defence (1st September)? Are the Defence going to get this day back for their witnesses? Wei Phyo still has to testify and Zaw Lin hasn't even been cross-examined yet.

What's the point ? I've said this is a sham from start to finish, they have already been tried and sentenced behind judicial doors how can you possibly put a time frame on such a case?

[berybert]

Smedly, following in awe yours and posters like Boomerangutang's fight against windmills (i.e. Goldbuggy, Aleg, etc.), I believe you all should either follow Smedly's signature "Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience" and spend all the time wasted on those shills better with your family, kids, friends or simply ignore them. Their endless DNA babble gets on my nerves, plus will our discussions here not even make a dent in the so-called "court proceedings" in a land where money talks and BS walks...

I'll eat my hat if the court lets the two Burmese patsies walk free and I'll eat my entire jeans and boots if the real rapists and murderers would be charged and prosecuted (I'll have difficulties with the steel caps in me boots though)... You and all other truth seekers are good people, but you ware wasting your time here with those shills! They distract your attention away from the daily things that truly matter, just like a crazy monkey sitting on your shoulders.

As soon as no one pays attention to them anymore, they'll just fade away. YOU are providing the stage to host their idiotic performances here. Think about it! Better write a book or something, doing something for yourself or your kids but to provide a platform for people who are obviously blind, deaf and depraved of any logical thinking.

No, it's exactly the same as before; the prosecution never claimed DNA from the defendants was found on the hoe. The only thing that has come from the independent testing of it is that it was, indeed, the murder weapon; so nothing new.

Meanwhile the actual DNA evidence the prosecution is basing their case on is being contested only indirectly by trying to discredit the process that yielded the results, instead of the actual results themselves; which I don't think carries much weight because it's not possible to by mistake or accident arrive at two DNA profiles matching the defendants.

The only thing that would produce a match is a deliberate faking of the results after the two defendants were arrested, and until they can provide any sort of evidence for such thing, IMO, the DNA evidence still stands.

It's a very interesting point you make and on the surface it sounds correct. But not linking the murder weapon to the accused is a serious blow for the persecution for sure. Even if they can prove without doubt that the men had sex with Hannah that does not mean that they killed her, I know how that sounds but it has to be proved beyond reasonable doubt.

Also, although I know nothing about the UK pathologist report as it is not allowed to be made public I do know from the press releases that in the UK that they have sent a report back to Thailand as they have "serious concerns" over the pathologist report from Thailand. It is inferred that the information will help the defence, again no now knows what that is but it does create doubt.

It is possible that the DNA tests were not conducted correctly for the samples allegedly found. If this proves to be the case what evidence is left that these b2 actually committed the crime? I assume you at least acknowledge this as a possibility.

All we can hope for is the outcome is the right one and that whoever is truly responsible is brought to justice, if it turns out to be the B2 then so be it but I have to say from the limited information we all have there are some very serious doubts and the prosecution will have a tough time proving their guilt.

Of course I acknowledge the possibility that the tests were not done according to whatever standards one may want to establish; but as I have said repeatedly there's no mishandling of the evidence or errors in the analysis that would yield not one but two matching DNA profiles. The only way that would be possible would be by deliberate malfeasance so that is what the defense needs to do to, IMO, dismiss the evidence.

I'm not going to feel satisfied with what amounts to "Well it could had been wrong, so there".

As for that evidence only proving they had sex with Witheridge, no, it also proves that they lied when they claimed they had nothing to do with anything, and if they lied about that what else did they lie about?

If they did when did that happen and why didn't they tell anyone at any time about it?

Mind you they have also already admitted of having a phone identical to the one that was taken from Miller since the night of the murders, so they just happened to have consensual sex with one of the victims and just happened to "find" the phone of the other?

I was waiting to hear an explanation to the extremely suspicious beheaviour and circumstances of the two defendants but so far I haven't seen anything in that regard, some people have been accused of being involved in the murders on much less grounds than these two.

This is why I like to keep reading AleG. He says things like "I'm not going to feel satisfied with what amounts to "Well it could had been wrong, so there".

Yet wants us to believe everything the RTP have said when all of it relates to "I'm not going to feel satisfied with what amounts to "Well it could had been wrong, so there".

The man is pure comedy.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Well, not really. I still think that OJ was guilty. But then I am not the court. What is the most important is what the court thinks and not me. That they have not been influenced by the media and social networks. I hope they believe innocent until proven guilty, which they are sworn to do.

But the Prosecution has made there case already, and whether you believe it is strong or not, they point to the accused guilt. So now it is the Defense Team that has to dispute this, which I believe they are doing now. They have to create reasonable doubt. If you believe reasonable doubt has been created already, then good on you. But I don't. .

So GB if that was one of your sons in the dock would u be happy for the police/courts to send your child to their death on the evidence submitted so far??

Straight Answer Yes/No

As a side note I did provide you with the coroners details and you have chosen not to follow it up so I have done it for you. A copy is posted earlier on this thread. At least then we can put you straight.

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Did you read the Coroner's answer that MadAussie forwarded not long ago? It made things clearer, but I will help you with that :

The evidence (said to be contradicting the Thai autopsy) will eventually be made public, but the enquiry is still ongoing so it can't be for now.

As it was seemed to be helpful to the defense though (in a murder/rape case, punishable by death...), it was forwarded privately so that the judges could have a look at it and include it in their decision making.

I know you and AleG don't like that fact, but that is the way it is, and as far as I am concerned, anything that can shed some tangible light on what happened should be considered, and not only a selection that helps to justify just one scenario presented in this trial (which seems totally wrong now, if you look at it with enough clarity).

Oh! You mean the inquest to be held in the UK at a future date. What was it now? Oh Yeah! The first date will be on October 15th, to discuss when the inquest will be held.

Let's see now! Trial over by the end of September. Verdict from the Panel of Judges sometime in early October. Inquest date maybe sometime next year, or November or December.

Yeah! I can easily see now how this is going to help the Defenses Case. Thanks for pointing this out to everyone,

[thailandchilli]

I believe we have a certain poster on here that must have everyone on ignore apart from one or 2 buddies coz he sure as hell takes no notice of the facts presented by other posters and is unable to comprehend basic logic. An I don't care attitude that is echoed by the RTP from the beginning of the investigation right through to the end of the prosecution case. Get a conviction and disregard all else. Fair trial......whats that, their just a couple of migrant scum in their eyes. Human rights defenders an inconvenient distraction but ignored never the less. Evidence that contradicts their case, we don't care.

Pure evil in my opinion

[StealthEnergiser]

I believe we have a certain poster on here that must have everyone on ignore apart from one or 2 buddies coz he sure as hell takes no notice of the facts presented by other posters and is unable to comprehend basic logic. An I don't care attitude that is echoed by the RTP from the beginning of the investigation right through to the end of the prosecution case. Get a conviction and disregard all else. Fair trial......whats that, their just a couple of migrant scum in their eyes. Human rights defenders an inconvenient distraction but ignored never the less. Evidence that contradicts their case, we don't care.

Pure evil in my opinion

Yes and he has absolutely no respect we know that from the Anniversary a few days ago when he questioned another poster when asked to stop posting for a day out of respect.

You will also see where he calls Hannah by her last name only it just show that he doesn't even care about upsetting her family.

I know we shouldn't talk about other posters but please thai visa for the good of the thread take note what is going on and who is making these problems.

[fab99]

Well, and as I said in the very first place, and will repeat again now, I am not interested in anything that goes on behind the scenes if it is not presented in a court of law and used as evidence. Even Forensic Experts have a right to their own opinion.

If she has some damning evidence, which has been claimed for months, then present it to the court. That is if she is not breaking any UK Laws, which she should check first. But go ahead. I am all ears. Let's see what she has. Or is all that just more smoke and no fire?

Did you read the Coroner's answer that MadAussie forwarded not long ago? It made things clearer, but I will help you with that :

The evidence (said to be contradicting the Thai autopsy) will eventually be made public, but the enquiry is still ongoing so it can't be for now.

As it was seemed to be helpful to the defense though (in a murder/rape case, punishable by death...), it was forwarded privately so that the judges could have a look at it and include it in their decision making.

I know you and AleG don't like that fact, but that is the way it is, and as far as I am concerned, anything that can shed some tangible light on what happened should be considered, and not only a selection that helps to justify just one scenario presented in this trial (which seems totally wrong now, if you look at it with enough clarity).

Oh! You mean the inquest to be held in the UK at a future date. What was it now? Oh Yeah! The first date will be on October 15th, to discuss when the inquest will be held.

Let's see now! Trial over by the end of September. Verdict from the Panel of Judges sometime in early October. Inquest date maybe sometime next year, or November or December.

Yeah! I can easily see now how this is going to help the Defenses Case. Thanks for pointing this out to everyone,

You seem slow, so I will explain again, I thought it was clear, but I guess it isn't for some...

The inquiry is in progress, it has been for a few months now, particularly the autopsy whose result is of interest to us here and which has been transfered to the defense as it could help them (by the way in a normal justice system anything that can help the defense has to be transferred to them otherwise a mistrial can be pronounced).

The result of the inquest will eventually be made public and if it is telling a different story to the RTP one (as the autopsy seems to show) then, if the B2 are convicted, it will for sure make the headlines.

The Thai judges know that and they know what is in the report (and we will too in due time), so they will probably take it into account in their decision making, whether you like it or not.

[IslandLover]

I care about the 2 True Victims in this case which is Hannah and David. Therefore I do not want to see 2 Accused Rapists and Murderers walk free until it is proven beyond a "Reasonable Doubt" they are in fact Innocent. Do you see where they have done that as I don't.

Someone who may have forgotten to put the correct date on a DNA Document does not convince me the 2 Accused are innocent. Nor is the UK Justice System who fail to provide written declaration that this Mobile Phone belongs to David, as by law they are not allowed to, even if they give a verbal confirmation. Even that this case wasn't handled perfectly with apparent blunders. But none so far that proves the DNA Match with Hannah is false, and why after a year the Defense is still trying to prove that today.

You on the other hand think the victims here are the 2 Accused. You base your judgement on a case that wasn't handled perfectly, which has only been reported about by the Defense Team since last November as the Prosecution has said very little. On 2 Baby Faced Accused Rapists and Murderers who simply said they didn't do it and were tortured into a confession, with no proof so far any of that is true, and when anyone accused with a crime like this would lie through their teeth to save their own skins.

The Defense has a chance this week to prove their case, so let's let them do their job.

This typify's the bias being shown by some posters in favour of a conviction. It is for the prosecution to provide evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendants are guilty not for them to prove their innocence. So far they have clearly not done so or indeed provided any evidence other than to say "We know they did it" They have unfortunately lost or destroyed what evidence there was and given laughable reasons for doing so. In any western court the case would never have even reached the trial stage but I guess we will be subjected to the charade a while longer. It seems that for some here the mere accusation by the police is proof of guilt which demonstrates a ridiculously high level of trust in the RTP

It's not that there were a few blunders, it's that everything that could conceivably be done wrong, has been. The confession was obtained, without any video recording, using a dodgy translator, and has now been shown to bear 0 similarity to what actually transpired in the murder.

We have murder weapons not tested, important footage not watched or not asked for or available, clothing not tested or available. None of the police dealing with DNA recording their part correctly, it not even being sent to the right place to be tested independently, none of the police able to testify coherently. Is it really possible for every officer to be this incompetent, considering the best in the country were supposedly brought in to solve this case. And let's not forget that the prosecutor sent the file back to the police multiple times to sort out the problems in it. Yet despite them being made aware of the problems with the case and being told to fix them multiple times, this is the best they could come up with?

A conspiracy to frame these boys may sound "out there" to some, but is it really more reasonable to believe that the entire police force has 0 idea how to do even the basics of an investigation correctly and continues to do everything incorrectly throughout, despite their mistakes being pointed out to them time and time again?

P.S Of course let's not forget that for a while there seemed to be a very competent investigation going on, with strong leads such as suspects caught on film and a certain father saying his son had been on the island but had returned to university. Usually when i return to visit the place my parents live, they know about it. I don't think they've ever thought I went home for a visit when I actually didn't. Oh well I guess we will never know how much better the investigation would have gone if not for the unfortunate coincidence that that policeman, who seemed to be leading a very good investigation, was promoted to work elsewhere. I hope his promotion has led to him solving many equally high- profile cases, and that the mess those he left behind have made, doesn't show that it would have been far more prudent to delay his promotion.

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[Nigeone]

More memories by you that are unsubstantiated. I'm particularly interested in this little gem " including eye witnesses" Please go ahead and prove me wrong with a link that states they had these eye witnesses who were going to attend the trial. Other than those who were to afraid to attend.

"U Aung Myo Thant said one of the eyewitnesses saw the men who accompanied the British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller from the hotel shortly before the murder. Another witness said he had seen the rape by the light of his motorbike."

I'm sure you are quite satisfied in believing the reason these supposed witnesses don't seem to have materialized is because they were scared of by some vague but nefarious group, from appearing in court... or recording their testimony outside of court, or anything at all that would point to their actual existence.

That is a quite excellent link. Your prediction of why I think the witnesses are not testifying (hinted at in your linked article, and supported by other reports) is also spot on. Besides physical danger, their ability to continue living and working in Thailand would vanish were they to testify. The defense has statements, but they would (rightly) just be treated as hearsay unless the witnesses were willing to attend court.

Right, two persons murdered, two more facing a death penalty and the reason a migrant worker won't speak up is because of job security... and that after the defense team, or rather the MWRN year long donations campaign to, among other things, cover that sort of situations.

I, for one, am quite tired of the convenient excuses and boogie man arguments of why it's just not possible to produce any positive bit of evidence to support the innocence of the two men on trial.

It's funny that as I'm quite tired,in fact incredibly tired waiting for evidence to support the guilt of the two men on trial...funny that if it wasn't about two young people's lives !! And indeed maybe 4 people's lives !