Don't fear Internet single gateway: Thai ICT minister

[phoenixdoglover]

Of course the whole idea of a single Internet gateway is wrong and dangerous on many different levels, but it might be a good idea to read the list of Internet censorship and surveillance by country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_surveillance_by_country

It is quite interesting to see how many Western countries censor the Internet in various ways. Some could be considered for the general benefit, such as blocking child p0rn websites, but it is all censored content nonetheless and many Western countries surveil the Internet.

Who are the Enemies of the Internet?

United States, North Korea, Syria, United Kingdom, China, Iran, India and Russia to name a few.

Out of wikipedia curiosity, I've love you to show me what website in the US would result in one of these screens?

In the US, you may get monitored, but never will you see a page like that from the government. Sites do get taken down, usually for obvious criminal conduct.

[GinBoy2]

Of course the whole idea of a single Internet gateway is wrong and dangerous on many different levels, but it might be a good idea to read the list of Internet censorship and surveillance by country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_and_surveillance_by_country

It is quite interesting to see how many Western countries censor the Internet in various ways. Some could be considered for the general benefit, such as blocking child p0rn websites, but it is all censored content nonetheless and many Western countries surveil the Internet.

Who are the Enemies of the Internet?

United States, North Korea, Syria, United Kingdom, China, Iran, India and Russia to name a few.

Out of wikipedia curiosity, I've love you to show me what website in the US would result in one of these screens?

In the US, you may get monitored, but never will you see a page like that from the government. Sites do get taken down, usually for obvious criminal conduct.

Unfortunately there are those in Thailand, and I might add a not inconsequential number of TVF members that seem to honestly (or not) believe thinking or believing the 'wrong' things is criminal conduct.

[55Jay]

If they look at how their friends to the North manages a great firewall - and copy them - they wouldn't just block individual websites (like they do now) - they can use techniques to scan URLs and web page content for blacklisted keywords. As another poster mentioned they can also find and block VPNs so it is a scary scenario.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794223-china-blocks-vpn-access-in-new-online-censorship-crackdown/#entry9895853

[how241]

Which other countries also have single gateways? The answer to that question tells you all you need to know.

+1...Something to think about.

[phoenixdoglover]

Which other countries also have single gateways? The answer to that question tells you all you need to know.

+1...Something to think about.

I am working in a "single gateway" country. Occasionally, the rules are tightened up....but this doesn't last long. It seems rich and influential people like porn and IP phone services just like everybody else.

And yes...The performance sucks.

Edited September 25, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[mrrizzla]

Trying to sneak through bills without public consent....doesn't this sound familiar?

Again it's alright for our bunch of crooks but not yours.

[55Jay]

Trying to sneak through bills without public consent....doesn't this sound familiar?

Again it's alright for our bunch of crooks but not yours.

I thought the same thing yesterday.

Then again, calling this a "government" is using that word a bit loosely.

[mrrizzla]

Trying to sneak through bills without public consent....doesn't this sound familiar?

Again it's alright for our bunch of crooks but not yours.

I thought the same thing yesterday.

Then again, calling this a "government" is using that word a bit loosely.

Also, the amnesty bill was shot down in parliment and wouldn't of ever passed anyway. This bill is being imposed on Thailand and there is absolutely no recourse.

I'd rather have a broken civilian government over this nationalisitic D-wordship.

[KamalaRider]

I'm going to apply for the job siffting through all the information that is not being sniffed upon.

I promise I won't sell the information to competing companies about trade secrets or internal company or personal secret information coming from emails or IM's (if they aren't encrypted of course).

I swear to the big guy I won't, you have my word on it.

[KamalaRider]

Just a though, what will the Thai ICT do with all the satellites roaming around in space, supplying companies and people with internet?

Will they send out disturbance signals to cut them off?

[Benmart]

“The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.”

Uncle Adolf

[DavidB4]

"Don't Fear" like telling the frog in the pot not to fear the water getting warmer.

[Always18]

The single gateway in itself isn't the problem as long as the bandwidth is there to support it. The problem is why do they want it, and more importantly what do they want t do with it. Choke points in the internet access provide paranoid regimes better points at which to examine, block and filter.

The Great Firewall of China is the best and most sophisticated of these regimes'

Here are some of the tricks China uses to censor its Internet:

DNS Poisoning:

When your try to connect to a website like twitter.com, your computer contacts its DNS servers and asks for the IP address associated with the website. If you receive an invalid response, you’ll look for the website at the wrong location and you won’t be able to connect. China intentionally poisons its DNS caches with wrong addresses for websites like Twitter, making them inaccessible. SOPA would have brought this technique to the USA.

Blocking Access to IPs:

China’s Great Firewall can also block access to certain IP addresses. For example, to prevent people from accessing Twitter’s servers even by accessing it directly at a certain IP or by using unofficial DNS servers that haven’t been poisoned, China could block access to the IP address of Twitter’s servers. This technique would also block other websites located at the same address if they’re using shared hosting.

Analyzing and Filtering URLs:

The firewall can scan URLs and block connections if they contain sensitive keywords. For example, Website Pulse shows us that http://en.wikipedia.org is accessible from within China, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People’s_Republic_of_China is not accessible — the firewall is looking at the URL and deciding to block web pages that appear to be about Internet censorship.

Inspecting and Filtering Packets:

“Deep packet inspection” can be used to examine unencrypted packets, looking for sensitive content. For example, a search performed on a search engine may fail if you search for politically controversial keywords as the packets associated with the search are examined and blocked.

Resetting Connections:

There are indications that, after the Great Firewall blocks such packets, it will block communication between both computers for a period of time. The firewall does this by sending a “reset packet,” essentially lying to both computers and telling them that the connection was reset so they can’t talk to each other.

Blocking VPNs:

In late 2012, the Great Firewall started trying to block VPNs. VPNs were previously used to escape the Great Firewall. They’re also critical for many business users, so this was a surprising move. The firewall learns to identify what encrypted VPN traffic looks like and kills VPN connections.

This isn’t an exhaustive list — there isn’t complete transparency so we can’t know exactly how everything works.

All of that requires a large and fairly costly infrastructure and support mechanism. Given that we are here in Thailand, which struggles to keep the power on at the first clap of thunder, I'm somewhat skeptical of their ability to actually accomplish very much. What I'm more concerned about is that in their bungled attempts to actually do this, they further hobble the international connectivity out of the country.

It'll all probably happen about the same time as they eliminate Jetski scams, reform the RTP and dictate the price of Som Tam!

Thanks for that detailed response - I, for one, am now more informed about the mechanics of the proposal.................however, although I hope you are correct in your conclusions, the reality will be that in the intervening period, a substantial number of businesses, expats and their families/dependents (me included) will have deserted what appears to be a fatally wounded country................

Edited September 25, 2015 by Always18

[Bluespunk]

Yeah right. No ulterior motives. Have to be dumber than a sack of rocks to believe that BS.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Bluespunk

[HerbalEd]

Yeah ... have no fear. This is just part of the promised move back to democracy.

Setting aside the restriction of freedom, I think we all know they will totally screw up the technology and turn the present system ... which works great for me ... into a nightmare.

Murphy's Law of Thailand: If they can screw it up, they will.

BTW, I love Thailand, in spite of it's many warts. However, it seems to be getting worse and worse. Or is it me? After many years in Thailand, and getting older and older, am I just getting cranky and more intolerant? (It's a rhetorical question. No answer requested.)

Edited September 25, 2015 by HerbalEd

[KamalaRider]

removed because I remembered wrong.

Edited September 25, 2015 by KamalaRider

[farangmick]

The single gateway in itself isn't the problem as long as the bandwidth is there to support it. The problem is why do they want it, and more importantly what do they want t do with it. Choke points in the internet access provide paranoid regimes better points at which to examine, block and filter.

The Great Firewall of China is the best and most sophisticated of these regimes'

Here are some of the tricks China uses to censor its Internet:

DNS Poisoning:

When your try to connect to a website like twitter.com, your computer contacts its DNS servers and asks for the IP address associated with the website. If you receive an invalid response, you’ll look for the website at the wrong location and you won’t be able to connect. China intentionally poisons its DNS caches with wrong addresses for websites like Twitter, making them inaccessible. SOPA would have brought this technique to the USA.

Blocking Access to IPs:

China’s Great Firewall can also block access to certain IP addresses. For example, to prevent people from accessing Twitter’s servers even by accessing it directly at a certain IP or by using unofficial DNS servers that haven’t been poisoned, China could block access to the IP address of Twitter’s servers. This technique would also block other websites located at the same address if they’re using shared hosting.

Analyzing and Filtering URLs:

The firewall can scan URLs and block connections if they contain sensitive keywords. For example, Website Pulse shows us that http://en.wikipedia.org is accessible from within China, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_People’s_Republic_of_China is not accessible — the firewall is looking at the URL and deciding to block web pages that appear to be about Internet censorship.

Inspecting and Filtering Packets:

“Deep packet inspection” can be used to examine unencrypted packets, looking for sensitive content. For example, a search performed on a search engine may fail if you search for politically controversial keywords as the packets associated with the search are examined and blocked.

Resetting Connections:

There are indications that, after the Great Firewall blocks such packets, it will block communication between both computers for a period of time. The firewall does this by sending a “reset packet,” essentially lying to both computers and telling them that the connection was reset so they can’t talk to each other.

Blocking VPNs:

In late 2012, the Great Firewall started trying to block VPNs. VPNs were previously used to escape the Great Firewall. They’re also critical for many business users, so this was a surprising move. The firewall learns to identify what encrypted VPN traffic looks like and kills VPN connections.

This isn’t an exhaustive list — there isn’t complete transparency so we can’t know exactly how everything works.

All of that requires a large and fairly costly infrastructure and support mechanism. Given that we are here in Thailand, which struggles to keep the power on at the first clap of thunder, I'm somewhat skeptical of their ability to actually accomplish very much. What I'm more concerned about is that in their bungled attempts to actually do this, they further hobble the international connectivity out of the country.

It'll all probably happen about the same time as they eliminate Jetski scams, reform the RTP and dictate the price of Som Tam!

Interesting post, even I understood it. A couple of years ago a chap came to stay nearby who'd ridden a bike from England. He emailed regular progress reports home. Got to China and they became gibberish, along the lines of "Arrived at BLANK in BLANK province. Heading out on highway BLANK to BLANK. Should get there about tea time." Damned clever these Chinese.

[Praematura]

Last year the junta paid $300 million for spy software similar to what the NSA has. Lol the op says it for businesses...does he think people who read the news are severely retarded like those in power.

[Tonawatchee]

Could this slow up international online banking?

[ozyjon]

Sounds like my ex g/f

[HHTel]

The objective of the international-Internet single gateway initiative is not to enhance national security, but to help Internet businesses reduce costs by sharing a single gateway, Information and Communication Technology Minister Uttama Savanayana said yesterday.

"Col. Setthapong Malisuwan, deputy chairman of the National Broadcasting and Telecommunication Commission, told BBC Thai that he prefers to call the “single gateway” a “hub” to avoid any negative connotation.

He defended the plan, saying the “single hub” would allow Thai security forces to monitor internet traffic more easily. Col. Setthapong also insisted that the idea would promote, not hamper, Thailand’s digital economy, and claimed other modern countries have similar surveillance measures."

"Officials insist that a single gateway – similar to China’s control over internet traffic via its “Great Firewall” – is necessary to protect national security because it would allow law enforcement authorities to easily track down individuals responsible for online crimes."

"As long as Thailand still uses the 12-gateway system, when these messages are sent in, we need to have people monitoring them, and rely on the media or the people to report offending messages individually to police,” Somyot said. “I have petitioned the government about this many times. There should be a single gateway in Thailand."

Seems the Technology Minister forgot to tell the rest of the cronies to stick to his story. Seems he is the only one saying it and is proven by his own government colleagues to be a big fat lie.

[Seastallion]

Papua New Guinea has a single gateway.

Some years back a large company was raided by armed police and prosecuted for running their own.

With a computer-literate, internet-able population of 50 000, the single gateway is commercially protected. It's not a "security" thing.

That's a guess on both the number and the reason

Edited September 25, 2015 by Seastallion

[jaywalker]

Just a though, what will the Thai ICT do with all the satellites roaming around in space, supplying companies and people with internet?

Will they send out disturbance signals to cut them off?

I heard they are going to launch a "Laser".

Edited September 25, 2015 by jaywalker

[Ichabod]

I'm starting to loose faith in the General.

No, you're just starting to be affected directly by the General. Apparently, you haven't been interested in his effects to date on the mass of Thai people.

[Cake Monster]

Haveing had so many weird little things happening with my Internet Service over the last several months, I wonder if the Government have been " dry running ".

I had put the problems with my service down to a poor ISP ( True ), but after the " Great Firewall of Thailand " statement, I now am starting to think differently about the causes of my problems.

Or am I being paranoid ?

[lavender19]

I know it is hard dragging the average Thai from their 10 meals a day to bother with anything like this but start telling them that they are going to have their facebook and other social media sites blocked and they just might start taking notice

[Tywais]

Commenting on moderation and advertisements on TV.

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

25) No public discussion is allowed with regard to advertisements or sponsors, or methods of blocking advertisements.

[MaxLee]

I know it is hard dragging the average Thai from their 10 meals a day to bother with anything like this but start telling them that they are going to have their facebook and other social media sites blocked and they just might start taking notice

Yep, the young ones are the first to notice and they will go all paranoia in record time, madhouses will be exploding in no time.

[NOC]

I wish the fiber router in&out of my mooban wouldn't quirk every nth day rendering the whole 50Mb connection useless until the guys reset it

That must be annoying but at least you get great internet most of the time, that's a great speed for Thailand, most places can't get fiber.

They'll sell you 50 mb of fiber, but you won't get 50 mb of fiber. Thailand's internet does not have the infrastructure for it.

[inutil]

I left Thailand 2 years ago. I was only there for about 5 months... and yet, i keep coming back to this site because of the stories. Before i click the bookmark, the thought always goes through my head, "what ridiculous things are going on in Thailand today?" and im never disappointed. I could have picked any thread to say this, but i chose this one because its so perfect: a bunch of lunatics in power, who keep pretending to try and garner consent for their madness whilst further entrenching social division in the name of social cohesion through oppressive means in an effort to stack the cards overwhelmingly in their favor when the time comes that international pressure finally forces them to relinquish power back to the people. No ones buying the shit theyre selling and no one really has to because no one cares if they do or dont. Its just random noise to give the appearance that something is happening. It just sums it all up.

Edited September 26, 2015 by inutil