Retirement Visa by any other name

[Jingthing]

Well I do think casual conversation is one thing and seeking visa advice is another.

Like if a Swedish dude I bump into at Ikea asks me how I am living in Thailand. I would most likely say ... living here on a retirement visa. Because he's not seeking technical advice ... it's just a casual general question.

No, I never got an O-A visa and of course I know my current permission to stay is based on my current annual extension. But no point in getting into that in such a casual chat.

Now if the same guy asks me ... how can I do that (which is so much of what this forum is about), well then it's time to get down to the mechanics and the more precise terminology.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Jingthing

[mommysboy]

Well I do think casual conversation is one thing and seeking visa advice is another.

Like if a Swedish dude I bump into at Ikea asks me how I am living in Thailand. I would most likely say ... living here on a retirement visa. Because he's not seeking technical advice ... it's just a casual general question.

No, I never got an O-A visa and of course I know my current permission to stay is based on my current annual extension. But no point in getting into that in such a casual chat.

Now if the same guy asks me ... how can I do that (which is so much of what this forum is about), well then it's time to get down to the mechanics and the more precise terminology.

Of course.

[Sutty]

I think, for me, that it is important that for the sake of good order, not to mix things up, that it is much better to learn and call stuff for what it is.....

Ignorance is never a good thing, and shouldn´t be encouraged in any way in life. It is better for the less knowledgeable to learn than for the vise to step a side...

There is always a reason that there is different words in a language, and if one doesn´t acknowledge that, than we have abig problem. Big law-firms do not know the correct wording, Immigration.officers do not know the correct wording.. Does THAT makes it right?

Glegolo

ps. For post number 2 - WRONG! When you come to Thailand you have bought a VISA, you than arrive and are given by the IO an permission to stay OR period to stay.

When this runs out, it is no longer a permission or period to stay, and the VISA are about to die with it... THAN it is time to apply for a extension of stay from that permission to stay.... OK....

THIS IS THE REASON why we should use the correct wording!!

I'm with the OP on this. I find it annoying when pedantic forum members try to correct people whenever they use the informal term.

I'm going to call it a "retirement visa" as long as I post on this forum. I've made one concession - I use parentheses so as not to upset the OCD crowd too much.

Using abbreviated and/or informal terminology is common in English. Get over it! Saying it's: "an extension of stay based on retirement" sounds awkward in most contexts. When people are discussing the mechanics of how to get a visa based on retirement that's different, but if someone asks me what visa I've got, it's a "retirement visa", end of story.

Then just call it a retirement extension, then everyone will know what you are talking about. Is that so much harder than "retirement visa"?

Sophon

I made it quite clear what I call it. You are free to call it what you like. I doubt many people will be confused other than you and few others perhaps.

Put the claws away were all friends on here

[mommysboy]

So the reasonable reply as a starter might be:

OP, I know what you mean by retirement visa many of us call it that, but in fact there isn't any such thing. It's actually an extension of stay -a small rubber stamp in your passport. To get it you have to have a valid visa first, usually a non-immigrant visa. You need to tell us what you already have, and what stage you are at.

[Maestro]

I have just had a look at the stamps in my passport, and none of them are entitled " visa extension" or such like.

2 of them have "RETIREMENT" in block capitals.

My latest stamp from Surat Thani starts with the words "extension of stay permitted until.....".

Of course not because you can't extend a Visa. A Visa has a 'enter before' date and a given number of entries. As soon as all the entries are used or the 'enter before' date reached the Visa is finished.

You no longer have a Visa. If you got a new passport the old expired Visa would stay in the old passport because it's of no further use.

It says "retirement' because that is the basis that the extension was granted.

Exactly, you now have an "extension of stay permitted until...." granted on the basis of Retirement.

But it doesn't say that. Simple.

Then who posted this (highlighting in bold red is mine)?

I have just had a look at the stamps in my passport, and none of them are entitled " visa extension" or such like.

2 of them have "RETIREMENT" in block capitals.

My latest stamp from Surat Thani starts with the words "extension of stay permitted until.....".

[mommysboy]

Who wrote that?

You don't know, why I did!

That is not the title is it ?. I said title not wording. Those were in the paragraph of small print. And 2 of the stamps from Bangkok had RETIREMENT in block capitals.

Please try reading and don't take words out of context.

[Maestro]

Extension of stay

1. The form TM.7 I submit to the immigration officer has the title "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM"
   
2. In the field "Reason (s) for extension", I type "Retirement"
   
3. The immigration officer puts a stamp into my passport with the text "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO [date]". (Some immgration offices use a different text)
   
4. I call this stamp a "retirement extension" for short, and so do most other members of this forum.

[oncearugge]

Extension of stay

1. The form TM.7 I submit to the immigration officer has the title "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM"

2. In the field "Reason (s) for extension", I type "Retirement"

3. The immigration officer puts a stamp into my passport with the text "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO [date]". (Some immgration offices use a different text)

4. I call this stamp a "retirement extension" for short, and so do most other members of this forum.

Exactly, altho' all my extensions are also headed with a stamped "Retirement" which indicates the basis for the extension of stay being granted.

[Maestro]

Visa

1. On this page, the website of the Thai embassy in London has a link named Retirement/ Long stay Visa "O-A
   
2. The form to apply for this visa has the title "VISA APPLICATION FORM". (Some consulates use other forms)
   
3. An additionally required form has the title "Additional Application Form for Non-Immigrant Visa ‘O-A’ (Long Stay)"
   
4. On the visa application form, in the field "Purpose of Current Visit", I type "Retirement"
   
5. The visa sticker I get in my passport says "Non-Immigrant O-A".
   
6. I call this visa "non-O-A visa" for short, but given the fact that some embassies and consulates refer to it on their websites also as Retirement/Long stay Visa "O-A" and on the application form I state retirement as the purpose of my visit to Thailand I can understand why some other people call it "retirement visa"

[mommysboy]

Extension of stay

1. The form TM.7 I submit to the immigration officer has the title "APPLICATION FOR EXTENSION OF TEMPORARY STAY IN THE KINGDOM"

2. In the field "Reason (s) for extension", I type "Retirement"

3. The immigration officer puts a stamp into my passport with the text "EXTENSION OF STAY PERMITTED UP TO [date]". (Some immgration offices use a different text)

4. I call this stamp a "retirement extension" for short, and so do most other members of this forum.

Exactly, altho' all my extensions are also headed with a stamped "Retirement" which indicates the basis for the extension of stay being granted.

Nevertheless all this gets forgotten a year on in what is an unpleasant experience for many. All that we have to remind us of what it is we are supposed to have is the stamp in the passport which is ambiguous.

It's a pointless argument. You simply have your hard, and fixed viewpoint and I have mine.

I won't be reading or posting on this thread anymore and I reckon most would like to see it closed.

[edwardflory]

I have just had a look at the stamps in my passport, and none of them are entitled " visa extension" or such like.

2 of them have "RETIREMENT" in block capitals.

My latest stamp from Surat Thani starts with the words "extension of stay permitted until.....".

Mine has a "RETIREMENT" stamp on the page.....NOW take a look at the OTHER stamps on the same page..

Look for stamps that starting with:

1) EXTENSION OF STAY...............etc...........

2) TO KEEP YOUR STAY PERMIT.............etc.........

[mgjackson69]

I have just had a look at the stamps in my passport, and none of them are entitled " visa extension" or such like.

2 of them have "RETIREMENT" in block capitals.

My latest stamp from Surat Thani starts with the words "extension of stay permitted until.....".

Mine has a "RETIREMENT" stamp on the page.....NOW take a look at the OTHER stamps on the same page..

Look for stamps that starting with:

1) EXTENSION OF STAY...............etc...........

2) TO KEEP YOUR STAY PERMIT.............etc.........

...and nowhere in any of those stamps does the word "visa" appear.

[Jingthing]

This has gotten very silly.

Obviously an extension in your passport is not the same thing as a visa.

That's not controversial or ambiguous in ANY way. It is FACT.

If you've got a current extension of stay based on retirement in your passport, that means sometime in the PAST, either recently or years ago you originally DID get an O visa or an O-A visa.

Starting with that O or O-A visa, you can continue to get consecutive ANNUAL EXTENSIONS for life (under the current rules), unless you break the chain.

If you do break the chain of continuous EXTENSIONS, then you need to START OVER with a NEW O visa or O-A visa.

It is impossible to start with an extension without first having an O or O-A visa as you need something to extend it from ... A VISA.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[Langsuan Man]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

[Jingthing]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Another reason that I suggest just calling an O-A visa an O-A visa.

Also, because the O-A is the closest thing to actually being a "retirement visa" many newbies understandably assume that you MUST have a retirement visa to enter the retirement system in Thailand. So if they get the message that the O-A is THE retirement visa (and they would have a point), then they get the idea that they MUST get an O-A to start. Which of course they don't. Also many people, again understandably, ask how they can get an O-A visa IN Thailand. Which of course they can't.

More ammunition that for the purposes of this advice forum, using precise terms is really necessary.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[elviajero]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Another reason that I suggest just calling an O-A visa an O-A visa.

As being retired isn't one of the qualifications for getting an extension of stay based on retirement, it's crazy that they link it to retirement at all!

[mxyzptlk]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Another reason that I suggest just calling an O-A visa an O-A visa.

Also, because the O-A is the closest thing to actually being a "retirement visa" many newbies understandably assume that you MUST have a retirement visa to enter the retirement system in Thailand. So if they get the message that the O-A is THE retirement visa (and they would have a point), then they get the idea that they MUST get an O-A to start. Which of course they don't. Also many people, again understandably, ask how they can get an O-A visa IN Thailand. Which of course they can't.

More ammunition that for the purposes of this advice forum, using precise terms is really necessary.

Seems logical to me to call something what it really is....an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA

Edited September 29, 2015 by mxyzptlk

[Jingthing]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Another reason that I suggest just calling an O-A visa an O-A visa.

As being retired isn't one of the qualifications for getting an extension of stay based on retirement, it's crazy that they link it to retirement at all!

Yes, but for both the O-A and for retirement extensions you are not allowed to legally work IN Thailand. So in that sense you are committing to being "retired" while living in Thailand.

Most countries that offer some kind of "retirement visa" scheme require some kind of pension to get legal retirement status. Thailand doesn't. Good for me or I wouldn't be here.

Looking at this more internationally, "retirement visas" might be seen as the generic term for the actual name(s) of immigration things that any country might use to allow retired foreigners to legally live there. But on this forum we need to break it down to the actual terms for THAILAND's system.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Jingthing

[tropo]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Seems logical to me to call something what it really is....an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA

If you insist on being correct, why are you using an abbreviation? There is no "O-A Visa". It's a "non-immigrant O-A visa", mostly abbreviated to "non-O-A visa".... or the more common "non-O visa".

[oncearugge]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Seems logical to me to call something what it really is....an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA

If you insist on being correct, why are you using an abbreviation? There is no "O-A Visa". It's a "non-immigrant O-A visa", mostly abbreviated to "non-O-A visa".... or the more common "non-O visa".

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

[Jingthing]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

To add, for the visa geeks, there are a number of other types of Thai non-immigrant visas that aren't O visas:

F, B, IM, IB, ED, M, R, RS, EX

Identify all of those without google and you win a prize.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

Edited September 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[oncearugge]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

To add, for the visa geeks, there are a number of other types of Thai non-immigrant visas that aren't O visas:

F, B, IM, IB, ED, M, R, RS, EX

Identify all of those without google and you win a prize.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

Thanks but I do know!

[Jingthing]

Uh oh.

Your prize is me saying: GOOD BOY!

[tropo]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

I disagree. Mostly it is referred to as a non-O visa, for short. It's irrelevant that there might or might not be an "immigrant O-A visa", because the "non-immigrant" part is intended to let recipients know that they are not classed as immigrants and must continue to get extensions in order to stay in Thailand, and report every 90 days.

It's an important descriptive word. If it was't, they wouldn't use it on the visa, would they?

You've been rather pedantic in many posts on this thread, so bear with me as I attempt to do the same:

1. My visa obtained from the immigration office in Chonburi is indicated very clearly, in huge letters on top : NON-IMMIGRANT VISA

The category is indicated by the letter 'O'.

2. My wife's visa, obtained from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane is printed as follows:

Type of visa: Non-Immigrant

Category: O

3. Every single re-entry permit I have has "NON IMM." written in huge letters on top - bigger than any other letters on the stamp. In addition to this, in the body of the stamp (re-entry permit) there is no mention of O. It only has "Category: Non-Imm."

4. All my entry stamps are marked: Visa Class: NON-RE (handwritten by IO upon entry)

Now you're telling me that the non-immigrant status is unimportant and implied.

[oncearugge]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

I disagree. Mostly it is referred to as a non-O visa, for short. It's irrelevant that there might or might not be an "immigrant O-A visa", because the "non-immigrant" part is intended to let recipients know that they are not classed as immigrants and must continue to get extensions in order to stay in Thailand, and report every 90 days.

It's an important descriptive word. If it was't, they wouldn't use it on the visa, would they?

You've been rather pedantic in many posts on this thread, so bear with me as I attempt to do the same:

1. My visa obtained from the immigration office in Chonburi is indicated very clearly, in huge letters on top : NON-IMMIGRANT VISA

The category is indicated by the letter 'O'.

2. My wife's visa, obtained from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane is printed as follows:

Type of visa: Non-Immigrant

Category: O

3. Every single re-entry permit I have has "NON IMM." written in huge letters on top - bigger than any other letters on the stamp. In addition to this, in the body of the stamp (re-entry permit) there is no mention of O. It only has "Category: Non-Imm."

4. All my entry stamps are marked: Visa Class: NON-RE (handwritten by IO upon entry)

Now you're telling me that the non-immigrant status is unimportant and implied.

What does "NON -RE" mean ?

[elviajero]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

I disagree. Mostly it is referred to as a non-O visa, for short. It's irrelevant that there might or might not be an "immigrant O-A visa",

If I understand correctly what you are saying........

A non 'O-A' is never referred to as a non 'O' for short by anyone that knows the difference or is giving advice.

Saying one has an 'O' when it's an 'O-A' is as bad as someone saying they have a retirement visa when they have a retirement extension.

O and O-A visas work very differently and should be correctly identified if someone is looking for advice.

Edited September 30, 2015 by elviajero

[mxyzptlk]

Even the O-A no longer states anything about retirement. In the past it used to have hand written above the word CATEGORY Long Stay but the last time that was written on my O-A Multiple, was in 2009 and 2011. Ever since it just shows O-A

Seems logical to me to call something what it really is....an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA is an O-A VISA

If you insist on being correct, why are you using an abbreviation? There is no "O-A Visa". It's a "non-immigrant O-A visa", mostly abbreviated to "non-O-A visa".... or the more common "non-O visa".

I never insisted on being correct PAL....I just voiced my opinion.....but if you think a non immigrant O-A is the same as a non immigrant O visa then you obviously don't know what you are talking about as indicated by your post...

Edited September 30, 2015 by mxyzptlk

[mxyzptlk]

Are you saying that.a "non-immigrant O-A visa" is the same as a "non-O visa"?

Have I understood correctly ?

Don't try too hard to understand all that.

Basically with an O-A visa, the non-immigrant part is implied as all O visas are non-immigrant visas.

O-A is plenty clear but if you want to expand on that, that's fine too. But I wouldn't!

If you contact the Thai embassy in your home country and ask about applying for an O-A visa, there will be no confusion about what you want.

There is no such thing as an immigrant O-A visa.

(Chopped to enable reply.)

I disagree. Mostly it is referred to as a non-O visa, for short. It's irrelevant that there might or might not be an "immigrant O-A visa", because the "non-immigrant" part is intended to let recipients know that they are not classed as immigrants and must continue to get extensions in order to stay in Thailand, and report every 90 days.

It's an important descriptive word. If it was't, they wouldn't use it on the visa, would they?

You've been rather pedantic in many posts on this thread, so bear with me as I attempt to do the same:

1. My visa obtained from the immigration office in Chonburi is indicated very clearly, in huge letters on top : NON-IMMIGRANT VISA

The category is indicated by the letter 'O'.

2. My wife's visa, obtained from the Thai Consulate in Vientiane is printed as follows:

Type of visa: Non-Immigrant

Category: O

3. Every single re-entry permit I have has "NON IMM." written in huge letters on top - bigger than any other letters on the stamp. In addition to this, in the body of the stamp (re-entry permit) there is no mention of O. It only has "Category: Non-Imm."

4. All my entry stamps are marked: Visa Class: NON-RE (handwritten by IO upon entry)

Now you're telling me that the non-immigrant status is unimportant and implied.

What does "NON -RE" mean ?

Thats the stamp on a re-entry permit

[tropo]

If I understand correctly what you are saying........

A non 'O-A' is never referred to as a non 'O' for short by anyone that knows the difference or is giving advice.

Saying one has an 'O' when it's an 'O-A' is as bad as someone saying they have a retirement visa when they have a retirement extension.

O and O-A visas work very differently and should be correctly identified if someone is looking for advice.

If you'd been paying attention you would have understood I talking about leaving out the "non-immigrant" part of the visa description, not about the difference between a "non-immigrant category O visa" and a "non-immigrant category O-A visa".

[tropo]

What does "NON -RE" mean ?

Thats the stamp on a re-entry permit

It is not. It is the handwritten note on the entry stamp written just after the printed "visa class". If you have a "retirement visa", you'll have that on your entry stamp too.