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Posted

I'm sure that they do, but they will improvise, adapt and overcome quickly. They may be on their last choice, but they don't go into the game with their eyes shut.

It is human nature and the art of survival for some of them. Use the assets available and climb out of the hole. I used to know some girls in the very same predicament as you described in your example, and admired most of them...................wink.png

Nice post..............

Have met quite a few (and befriended some) over the years due to the fact that I have/had many friends who have owned bars, and one in particular in which I used to spend a great deal of time in helping out.

There are all sorts in my experience, from the girls who had been sent down by their mothers in order to get money sent back home, to the girls who wanted more money because they had seen what bargirls in the village had returned home with (gold, watches and nice clothes etc) and even some who wanted to experience the constant partying and nightlife which supposedly went with the bar girl life.

One particular very attractive girl springs to mind, not only because she was attractive, but because she spoke excellent English and was very particular with whom she went. Chatting about this one night, she explained that she had been to university and had a degree in marketing (I think) and decided that before she went out into the great corporate world she would do something completely different and try life as a bar girl!

She said she would give it two years and then give it away. I asked her whether she had changed her opinion now that she had seen what the life was like, and she said that it did get boring, however it was better than working in a 9-to-5 job. Bearing in mind she was extremely attractive and spoke great English, one has to remember that she only went for the "upper class" farangs (and never old/fat/poorly dressed farangs) and earned good money, according to her.

Another lady I have known for about five years has managed to send enough money home to just about complete a lovely single-storey house near Udon Thani (she has shown me the photographs) and intends to earn enough to finish it and go back home.

Yet another girl from up North who was out of a job decided to go freelancing and absolutely hates it, although at her peak she was earning over 100,000 baht a month and now all she wants to do is to settle down with a nice farang who will keep her and her family happy.

The stories go on and on, from others who have become absolute drunks to others who have turned to drugs. And I do know of a few who have shacked up with, or who have long-term farang boyfriends, and no longer work the bar scene and who are very happy with what they've got now.

In summary, I echo what "chrisinth" said, in as much as many of the girls do improvise and adapt and are able to compartmentalise what they actually have to do to earn the money, to live the life they live and support the family.

good post, good points. agree not everyone is the same and not all situations are the same. perhaps nowadays even tougher given all the dating websites where reasonable farangs can date non money girls, though theres many atm seekers on those dating sites.

Posted

IMHO a few years back it has been the only chance for a sufficient income but nowadays there so many ( decent paid) jobs available that nobody has to go this route...

Ha ha! You must be joking. I know a woman, 30-something, the former manager of an upscale club in BKK, who cannot land a job in Phuket in the hospitality industry. Say, at a country or golf club. Her English: splendid. Classy looking, well coiffed and sharp dresser. No one will hire her, preferring 21 year olds. There must be hundreds, thousands, like her.

Your closer to the truth than the decent paying job guy. He must be a naive newbie. Yes there are 1000's like her. I often worry about my g/f after I pass. Her only option seems to be to latch onto another old fart like me. Hope he is a kind person. See to many expat opportunists here all the time. She is a great person but a bit on the naive side.

Some examples...

The ladies in my kitchen( depends on position) between 20 000- 30 000

F&B same as above

Sales and marketing 30 000-50 000

Sales ladies from my major suppliers approximately 40 K

Even the ladies in housekeeping making 20 K a month...

My wife has her own shop and makes about 40K - 50 K

And don't tell me that a bar girl is earning much more considering she won't have customers every night and minus the loss of income when she has her menstruation...

With cops starting off at about 12,000 a month I find your figures highly unbelievable. Even after again consulting the expert (my g/f) your figures are more than double the going rate. She is Thai and your a Farang so who would I believe? She told me to ask you to email her as soon as you know of an opening. She will gather up all her friends and be right there. Its just to good to be true.

Posted

I think sometimes who is worse, the girl or the man, (who thinks he has come to her rescue).

Why would somebody look for a wife in a place like that? The answer may be that he has his own degree of self-loathing or some insecurity in dealing with mainstream ladies.

Further information....why dwell on this issue at all? Men who buy sex are basically the reason that sex is sold. Is it not ironic? Men love sex...women love sex.... ugly men with psycholgical issues will spend their entire lives dwelling with bar girls. Which is worse?

Posted (edited)

With cops starting off at about 12,000 a month I find your figures highly unbelievable. Even after again consulting the expert (my g/f) your figures are more than double the going rate. She is Thai and your a Farang so who would I believe? She told me to ask you to email her as soon as you know of an opening. She will gather up all her friends and be right there. Its just to good to be true.

I smell scam, someone 'trusted' is skimming most of the wage bill.

They ain't getting more than 10k to take home.

Foreigners running a 'hobby business' are very vulnerable to Thai scammers.

Edited by MaeJoMTB
Posted

With cops starting off at about 12,000 a month I find your figures highly unbelievable. Even after again consulting the expert (my g/f) your figures are more than double the going rate. She is Thai and your a Farang so who would I believe? She told me to ask you to email her as soon as you know of an opening. She will gather up all her friends and be right there. Its just to good to be true.

I smell scam, someone 'trusted' is skimming most of the wage bill.

They ain't getting more than 10k to take home.

Foreigners running a 'hobby business' are very vulnerable to Thai scammers.

The biggest joke is where he says housekeeping ladies are earning 20K p/m.

Posted (edited)

With cops starting off at about 12,000 a month I find your figures highly unbelievable. Even after again consulting the expert (my g/f) your figures are more than double the going rate. She is Thai and your a Farang so who would I believe? She told me to ask you to email her as soon as you know of an opening. She will gather up all her friends and be right there. Its just to good to be true.

I smell scam, someone 'trusted' is skimming most of the wage bill.

They ain't getting more than 10k to take home.

Foreigners running a 'hobby business' are very vulnerable to Thai scammers.

The biggest joke is where he says housekeeping ladies are earning 20K p/m.

I suspect his information stream is filtered through a 'trusted person'.

I've seen this happen many times to foreigners who don't speak Thai and trust one person for all their local 'interactions'.

Edited by MaeJoMTB
Posted

IMHO a few years back it has been the only chance for a sufficient income but nowadays there so many ( decent paid) jobs available that nobody has to go this route...

Ha ha! You must be joking. I know a woman, 30-something, the former manager of an upscale club in BKK, who cannot land a job in Phuket in the hospitality industry. Say, at a country or golf club. Her English: splendid. Classy looking, well coiffed and sharp dresser. No one will hire her, preferring 21 year olds. There must be hundreds, thousands, like her.

Your closer to the truth than the decent paying job guy. He must be a naive newbie. Yes there are 1000's like her. I often worry about my g/f after I pass. Her only option seems to be to latch onto another old fart like me. Hope he is a kind person. See to many expat opportunists here all the time. She is a great person but a bit on the naive side.

Some examples...

The ladies in my kitchen( depends on position) between 20 000- 30 000

F&B same as above

Sales and marketing 30 000-50 000

Sales ladies from my major suppliers approximately 40 K

Even the ladies in housekeeping making 20 K a month...

My wife has her own shop and makes about 40K - 50 K

And don't tell me that a bar girl is earning much more considering she won't have customers every night and minus the loss of income when she has her menstruation...

Your employees are doing very well. my thai female friend with a BS from assumption and a UK masters started at 30k with cp.

what % of BG's have the aptitude to do sales and marketing etc etc ?

Posted

Late 30s ??????????

You shopping in the wrong stores!

PS

Most bar girls started their p4p careers at 14 or 15 years old.

If you think they started in their late 30s, you're a bit gullible.

Nonsense. I have never seen or heard of a 15 yo bar girl. But I have met many >35 yo (who speak no English, and can barely read/write Thai) who started when their marriage/business went kaput.

p4p,

Starts in the local 'Thai only' brothels at 15+

Progresses to the 'Asian only' brothels at 20+ (maybe with a brief stint in Singapore/Malaysia)

Ends in 'farang bars' at age 30+

This is the normal progression and why you meet the bar girls aged 30+ who speak no English. Everything they tell you is a lie!

The idea that girls start suddenly selling themselves at 30+ due to a failed marriage or business is a lie, to deflect the white boys from thinking of the thousands of customers they previously had. Who would marry such a girl?

Note to the gullible,

in the brothels (first 15 years of their working lives) they will be servicing 5-8 customers per day.

The 35 year old, no English you met had probably already done 10,000+ tricks.

Quote: "Ends in farang bars at age 30+".

That's not been the case in the many bars owned by friends of mine, and indeed one in which I had a long-term association with, during which time there would have been around 30 or more girls at one time or another, only had one girl over 30 and she had been working there since her late 20s.

Some mothers from the village where the bar-owner's girlfriend came from sent their daughters down to work in the bar and the youngest was 16 with quite a few others between 18 and 22. In actual fact I never encountered any girl over 30 coming to work in this particular bar!

In all of the other bars I can only remember about five over 30 girls starting from "new", so to speak.

In one particular bar, sometimes famous for its nice girls, but most times for its overcharging, I saw one of the "older/more experienced" girls giving a newbie the lowdown on what to say to a farang when they started a conversation. The newbie could speak just about no English and the other girl was telling her what to say in English and writing it down in a little book (in Thai and English) for her so that she could look it up online I suppose and memorise it?

According to the bar-owner this was quite common procedure and what made me laugh was the stock standard answer given to all of the newbies when asked how long they had been there and it was "three weeks". Of course this was still the stock standard answer given, many years down the track!

From that to the absolute absurd............some months ago I observed a farang leaning across a table holding hands with the Thai bar girl opposite and I couldn't help but overhear him asking how long she had been working in a bar, and her answer was a little different in as much as she told him "three months", this despite the fact that I have seen her around for at least four years!!!

Having said all of that, they do what they do and manage to support a family and many of them are good sorts when you get to know them. They live with the decision they have made, or which has been made for them, and get by living a life which cannot be easy.

Posted

I think sometimes who is worse, the girl or the man, (who thinks he has come to her rescue).

Why would somebody look for a wife in a place like that? The answer may be that he has his own degree of self-loathing or some insecurity in dealing with mainstream ladies.

Further information....why dwell on this issue at all? Men who buy sex are basically the reason that sex is sold. Is it not ironic? Men love sex...women love sex.... ugly men with psycholgical issues will spend their entire lives dwelling with bar girls. Which is worse?

agree, not at all the correct venue if seeking a gf or wife. if just out for the night and not serious might be entertaining. many find it entertaining for whatever reasons. some may like the low stress no commitment aspect.

personally the main reason nowadays for me is to jam with the band(s) music is special and in the words of jim morrison "music is your only friend until the end" getting philosophical now hehe

Posted

Late 30s ??????????

You shopping in the wrong stores!

PS

Most bar girls started their p4p careers at 14 or 15 years old.

If you think they started in their late 30s, you're a bit gullible.

Nonsense. I have never seen or heard of a 15 yo bar girl. But I have met many >35 yo (who speak no English, and can barely read/write Thai) who started when their marriage/business went kaput.

p4p,

Starts in the local 'Thai only' brothels at 15+

Progresses to the 'Asian only' brothels at 20+ (maybe with a brief stint in Singapore/Malaysia)

Ends in 'farang bars' at age 30+

This is the normal progression and why you meet the bar girls aged 30+ who speak no English. Everything they tell you is a lie!

The idea that girls start suddenly selling themselves at 30+ due to a failed marriage or business is a lie, to deflect the white boys from thinking of the thousands of customers they previously had. Who would marry such a girl?

Note to the gullible,

in the brothels (first 15 years of their working lives) they will be servicing 5-8 customers per day.

The 35 year old, no English you met had probably already done 10,000+ tricks.

"This is the normal progression and why you meet the bar girls aged 30+ who speak no English. Everything they tell you is a lie!

The idea that girls start suddenly selling themselves at 30+ due to a failed marriage or business is a lie, to deflect the white boys from thinking of the thousands of customers they previously had. Who would marry such a girl?"

id agree with you that is often the case. theirs likely guys that will stay with such girls as they may see it as a mutually beneficial arrangement. its also possible the girl may even grow fond of him.

Posted

It can be A profitable life.I knew of girls that were n the business during the Vietnam war at Udonthani.They invested their money

And today they are living quite well.

But I do believe most of them live for the moment and end up self destructing.

Pals who I know living in Issan tell me that 30 years ago the nicest house in any town/village was always the one belonging to the doctor.

Nowadays, the nicest house often belongs to a lady under 40 years old who spent time in Bangkok or Pattaya doing some unspecified business.

The biggest evil that bar girls face are gambling and yaba. They can very easily avoid going with some nasty guy - I even remember being in a bar where the girls would not go with some European guy because he did not wash. Many of the younger ones are much more health conscious - they don't knock down the alcohol all the time. And after some time, they will often settle down with some old guy.

But gambling and yaba create debts and bad decisions and at the end of some years as a bar girl they have nothing to show for it.

Posted

i have a feeling the OP is falling for the girl in discussion. my advice is mate, if you feel for her, just go for it, dont ask around for opinions about what can be the reason behind for her to things usually she wouldnt.

Look trust is he main essence of a relationship. if you can not trust her then buddy, you might well as just walk away.

But if you trust her, then please just be there with her. its that simple.

Posted

although i admire the work motivation

it is sad to c a previously bright eyed full of life person through abundant alcohol and endless workdays convert into the figurative frankenstein monster. looking like a zombie on autopilot

must be worth it to them to consume as many as possible drinks for the small commission. working, drinking all night, then a daytime job. 7 days/week

Daytime job? You mean sleep all day.

I've know a few bar girls quite well and not one of them got out of bed until late afternoon.

70 baht commission per 'drink' which is typically a small shot of 1/2 water & 1/2 tequila (just enough tequila to make the customer think its real if he sniffs it), multiply that by 10 drinks or more per night and the girls I know are banking over 20,000 THB a month just on drinks.

Good looking girls can easily bank over 50,000 a month even if they are very picky about which punters they'll actually sleep with.

Add in the suckers who fall in love and give them extra money and that figure can easily top 100,000 a month.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them.

Posted

Off topic posts removed, this thread is NOT about Frankenstein.

Some of these mongers would make Frankenstein look like a young Elvis.

Posted

I'm sure that they do, but they will improvise, adapt and overcome quickly. They may be on their last choice, but they don't go into the game with their eyes shut.

It is human nature and the art of survival for some of them. Use the assets available and climb out of the hole. I used to know some girls in the very same predicament as you described in your example, and admired most of them...................wink.png

The Thai and especially Chinese race have had those Mistresses forever. It is accepted but not with a foreigner, all rich Men here are judged by their peers by the number of Girls they have waiting for them in prepaid Apartments. It is just another way of prostituting them selves but these girls are much younger and prettier then the Bar Girls.

Posted (edited)

It seems to me, and from the stories I hear when chatting with the bar boys that they have a complete different perception of prostitution and don't consider their selves a prostitute at all, while that's definitely what they are. Lot of flawed minds it seems like.

Others are a bit more clever, eg university graduates and make a well weighted choice and simply say "I don't care, I'm young, handsome and can make good money now so I go for it, if I have to find a normal job my starting salary is only about 15k/month while in the bar I can make 40k+/mo so I'm going to save for a car and a house and once I have that I'll think again about what to do, maybe by than I met a nice foreigner that I build a live with".

Others love to live abroad and that's there goal, I see few that do this work out of complete desparation.

However things are changing, what about Cambodian and Laos sex workers? Pattaya is flooded with them, and they don't have so much choice as the salaries in their countries are so absurd low that they are almost forced into prostitution, personally I always tend to be more gentle and less demanding towards people from other countries than Thailand. Not that I'm over demanding with Thai people but yes if I take a Thai off from the bar I want the full deal, while if it's a relative new one from say Cambodia I'm more ok with not going all the way and sometimes even a littlle more generous with paying,.

In conclusion, Thai people don't have to work in a bar, there are plenty of jobs available that pay enough to afford rent + food and even send a little bit of money home, in fact most Thai people that I spoke with tend to work in a bar cause they're too lazy to find a normal job while for others there really are not so many options besides working in a rice field for 2000-3000 baht/month in their home country or working double shifts to come home with $100-$150

So from my side, not much pity for Thai people really. As a matter of fact I think many would earn more working outside the bar, especially in the gay areas, they have so few customers while at the same whining they hardly can pay rent, as the bar only pays 3k, and if they lucky they go home with 4-5k by the end of the month. Heck 7/11 pays 8000/mo but no that's too much work. Screw that.

Edited by dennis123
Posted

although i admire the work motivation

it is sad to c a previously bright eyed full of life person through abundant alcohol and endless workdays convert into the figurative frankenstein monster. looking like a zombie on autopilot

must be worth it to them to consume as many as possible drinks for the small commission. working, drinking all night, then a daytime job. 7 days/week

You are obviously spending way too much time in Billboard. Come down a flight of stairs and check out Spanky's. You'll thank me for it.

Posted

IMHO a few years back it has been the only chance for a sufficient income but nowadays there so many ( decent paid) jobs available that nobody has to go this route...

Ha ha! You must be joking. I know a woman, 30-something, the former manager of an upscale club in BKK, who cannot land a job in Phuket in the hospitality industry. Say, at a country or golf club. Her English: splendid. Classy looking, well coiffed and sharp dresser. No one will hire her, preferring 21 year olds. There must be hundreds, thousands, like her.

Your closer to the truth than the decent paying job guy. He must be a naive newbie. Yes there are 1000's like her. I often worry about my g/f after I pass. Her only option seems to be to latch onto another old fart like me. Hope he is a kind person. See to many expat opportunists here all the time. She is a great person but a bit on the naive side.

Seems you often worry about the g/f after you pass....but not enough to make sure she is taken care of financially?

Yes there are many expat opportunists it would seem.

Posted

You simply cannot talk about "bargirls" as if they are all one person… they are individuals… every situation is possible - not every story is a lie - some make better money than doctors and have invested very well, some doctors have not invested well, many government workers drink too much to medicate from their boring existences… some bargirls hate it, some like it for a while and some enjoy themselves - some just get tired and washed out - others marry millionaires from foreign countries and go off and lead great lives…

Posted

Besides, what's up with this either working in a bar or in some shop earning 8-10k/mo. LIke there are no other options, I know tons of small entrepreneus here in Thailand, heck even the lady with the food car that ships in 30k/mo profits.

Posted

although i admire the work motivation

it is sad to c a previously bright eyed full of life person through abundant alcohol and endless workdays convert into the figurative frankenstein monster. looking like a zombie on autopilot

must be worth it to them to consume as many as possible drinks for the small commission. working, drinking all night, then a daytime job. 7 days/week

Daytime job? You mean sleep all day.

I've know a few bar girls quite well and not one of them got out of bed until late afternoon.

70 baht commission per 'drink' which is typically a small shot of 1/2 water & 1/2 tequila (just enough tequila to make the customer think its real if he sniffs it), multiply that by 10 drinks or more per night and the girls I know are banking over 20,000 THB a month just on drinks.

Good looking girls can easily bank over 50,000 a month even if they are very picky about which punters they'll actually sleep with.

Add in the suckers who fall in love and give them extra money and that figure can easily top 100,000 a month.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for them.

agree that the norm is sleeping all day. this one actually chats online during normal daytime business hours. a multinational company hired her to type legal documents in thai language (confirmed)

it seems she could make more money by doing tricks sleep deprived regardless. perhaps one of the customers gave her that job?

Posted

An interesting book on the topic of bar girls / prostitutes in Asia. Sex Slaves – the trafficking of women in Asia by Louise Brown an academic from Birmingham University in England.

"The Asian sex trade is often assumed to cater predominantly to foreigners. Sex Slaves turns that belief on its head to show that while western sex tourists have played a vital part in the growth of the industry, the primary customers of Asia’s indentured sex workers and of its child prostitutes are overwhelmingly Asian men."

Posted

Most bar girls are pretty lazy and prefer a night out boozing and partying than working in a factory or 7/11. As I understand it, many prefer an old bloke with a colostomy bag than a young buck whose going to go hell to leather for 12 hours straight. Having said that it's probably easier to reconcile general relativity and quantum mechanics than to devine the mind of a bar girl.

Posted

Seems many of the posters may be confused.

To clarify the thread is about bar girl psychology...not...bar stool psychology.

I guess that cuts out 90% of the respondents so far.

Posted

.......yawn....... I cant remember how many times this has been discussed.......the psychology goes like this......they have something you want and as luck would have it someone can supply it

Posted

IMHO a few years back it has been the only chance for a sufficient income but nowadays there so many ( decent paid) jobs available that nobody has to go this route...

Decent paying jobs in Thailand?? I mentioned this to my g/f and she says where are they located? and what do you deem as decent wage wise. She speaks good English but tells me by the time girls are 30 they are "over the hill" job wise. To many young educated ones running around fresh out of school. If your a good looking girl here and have a "decent job" most bosses will ask you to have lunch at one of those "don't ask don't tell motels" with the green shower curtain that pulls across the back of your vehicle and the mirrors on the ceiling and walls. She keeps telling me that staying with me till I snuff it is her best option. Lucky me.
Posted (edited)

i have a feeling the OP is falling for the girl in discussion. my advice is mate, if you feel for her, just go for it, dont ask around for opinions about what can be the reason behind for her to things usually she wouldnt.

Look trust is he main essence of a relationship. if you can not trust her then buddy, you might well as just walk away.

But if you trust her, then please just be there with her. its that simple.

you are correct. all i can say is it has been a very atypical friendship-relationship, no P4P just mutual liking. she's even paid her own bar fine on occasion to get away and have a normal evening. at disco she insisted to pay her own cover charge and then buy my drinks. i see the progression from working and now a lot different. virtually no free time with that schedule but still nice chat messages. i dont pretend to know whats going on in her head aside from dire need to repay debt. i would say the lifestyle, environment, alcohol is messing her up.

and one other tidbit. on our last night out she told me some guy offered 2 million baht to marry her then hinted she'd prefer to marry me. 3 weeks ago and still at the bar and day job.

i suspect someone taught her to say that.

Edited by atyclb
Posted

IMHO a few years back it has been the only chance for a sufficient income but nowadays there so many ( decent paid) jobs available that nobody has to go this route...

Decent paying jobs in Thailand?? I mentioned this to my g/f and she says where are they located? and what do you deem as decent wage wise. She speaks good English but tells me by the time girls are 30 they are "over the hill" job wise. To many young educated ones running around fresh out of school. If your a good looking girl here and have a "decent job" most bosses will ask you to have lunch at one of those "don't ask don't tell motels" with the green shower curtain that pulls across the back of your vehicle and the mirrors on the ceiling and walls. She keeps telling me that staying with me till I snuff it is her best option. Lucky me.

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