Gun control debate in the spotlight following Oregon campus shootings

[bbqbbq]

This is really pointless discussion when one side see the problem as too many guns that are available to virtually everyone versus those that see the problem is that everyone is not armed. There is no middle ground. Not rational discussion possible. The response to every gun massacre is a surge in gun sales. What the point of discussing anything under these circumstances?

[boomerangutang]

This was a Facebook post that sure rings true.

"How about we treat every young man who wants to buy a gun like every woman who wants to get an abortion — mandatory 48-hr waiting period, parental permission, a note from his doctor proving he understands what he's about to do, a video he has to watch about the effects of gun violence, an ultrasound wand up the ass (just because). Let's close down all but one gun shop in every state and make him travel hundreds of miles, take time off work, and stay overnight in a strange town to get a gun. Make him walk through a gauntlet of people holding photos of loved ones who were shot to death, people who call him a murderer and beg him not to buy a gun.

It makes more sense to do this with young men and guns than with women and health care, right? I mean, no woman getting an abortion has killed a room full of people in seconds, right?"

Oh, goodness, then many Americans would have to go to Mexico or Canada to get their guns. Like many have to do to get medicine at an affordable price.

Mexican come to the the US to buy guns. easy as pie. That's why gun sellers love to have gun show events at border towns. The events flood with Mexicans, everybody smiling, buying guns and ammo like kids at a candy fair. No matter that Mexico has one of the highest murder rates in the world.

[VIPinthailand]

gun never killed

it s the bullet that kill, not the gun.

what I propose is a law to stop selling bullet.

like that the second amendment is still respected except people can not carry and buy bullet.

see? I could be the next US president with lot of bright ideas.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[jpinx]

...and the latest reaction

http://t.co/mVPWgGkgR3

..... really????

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/860398-thailand-live-sunday-4-oct-2015/page-2#entry9927066

Edited October 4, 2015 by jpinx

[sirineou]

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,”

yes we call them the police

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." - Clint Smith, former US Marine, police officer and S.W.A.T. team member. When asked why he carried a Colt .45 he answered "Because they don't make a .46".

when we need minutes a psychopath with a gun is only seconds away

and nine people run out of minutes, I hope soon we will also run out of clever one liners and do the right thing.

Other countries have psychopaths , what they don't have is armed psychopaths,and one liner leadership.

[bbqbbq]

Exactly. One liners don't stop bullets.

[jpinx]

Common sense has fled from USA -- now it is perfectly legal for someone with known and documented serious mental health problems to buy many multiple weapons of mass killings. The crazies are running the asylum I fear.

[lostoday]

Common sense has fled from USA -- now it is perfectly legal for someone with known and documented serious mental health problems to buy many multiple weapons of mass killings. The crazies are running the asylum I fear.

Maybe know something before you post. I know you are just USA bashing but it makes you look uninformed.

[lostoday]

“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,”

yes we call them the police

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." - Clint Smith, former US Marine, police officer and S.W.A.T. team member. When asked why he carried a Colt .45 he answered "Because they don't make a .46".

when we need minutes a psychopath with a gun is only seconds away

and nine people run out of minutes, I hope soon we will also run out of clever one liners and do the right thing.

Other countries have psychopaths , what they don't have is armed psychopaths,and one liner leadership.

The Detroit Police Officers Association is warning citizens and out-of-towners that they enter Detroit at their own risk, saying that the "grossly understaffed" and overworked police force cannot adequately protect the public in the increasingly violent city.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14294269-visit-detroit-at-your-own-risk-police-union-warns?lite

Average interaction between criminal and victim is 90 seconds. According to American Police Beat, the average response time for an emergency call is 10 minutes. Atlanta has the worst response time with 11 to 12 minutes and Nashville comes in at a lightning speed of 9 minutes.

http://www.self-defense-mind-body-spirit.com/average-police-response-time.html

[Linky]

Australia has gun control laws but it still didn't stop this shooting in Sydney yesterday?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/02/17/01/two-feared-shot-in-parramatta-in-sydney-s-west

No it didn't stop it and the rise in these Muslim terrorist killings will continue in Australia and Europe. Before long those killings will outnumber anything happening in the US. The traditional citizens will be powerless and get mowed down with no chance to defend themselves.

Not in my neighborhood...

Play the long game. Things change over time and the security that many grew up with is fast disappearing. By the time they see it it will be too late.

The American citizen will be the last one standing against these terrorists. 100 million of us say "just try it".

Cheers.

Muslim terrorist killings of non-Muslim in Australia, North Africa and Europe since a certain evil caliphate started 'inspiring' people... 76.

Mass shootings in the US since the start of the year... 264.

Deaths in the US 'from terrorism' in the past 10 years... 313.

Deaths in the US from guns in the past 10 years... 316,545

Claiming that protecting US citizens from Muslim-inspired atrocities are some part of the NRA's own mantra of "bringing happiness to the people" .. Priceless.

How can I say this?... Your 'long game' post is absolutely drenched in self doubt and insecurity.

PS. I can't wait for the 'from my cold dead hands' post, btw.

Aren't the deaths from 'terrorism' in the past ten years within the US mainly committed by white supremacists?

2001 by Muslims from Saudi Arabia. (9/11) is the largest I think. 3003 people murdered. 8700 injured. By limiting to 10 years you miss the largest and most catastrophic murders. I don't really think the difference between 10 and 14 years is significant unless you are trying to cover up the largest atrocity which I think is your point but no one is fooled. It is like saying how many people were murdered in death camps in the past 70 years = 0. How many in the past 75 years = 10 million. Get it?

This is about gun control and you keep trying your anti muslim diatribe.

You think guns brought down the towers? Thats a stretch even for you.

[Grouse]

America, does not even need Islamic terrorist, their own citizens kill more people in those mass shootings. (Real sad actually). Still I see Americans comment on how dangerous Europe is with its Muslims (in various topics here on Thaivisa). I would say the US is dangerous because of its guns.

I doubt that something can be done, tighter laws would not help with all the guns floating around already.

I wish them the best in solving this real complicated problems.

What can be done if it's written into the constitution?

American's have the right to bear arms.

How about an amendment? You did it with prohibition....

[lostoday]

What can be done if it's written into the constitution?

American's have the right to bear arms.

How about an amendment? You did it with prohibition....

You should probably look at the procedure for amending the constitution.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/

Edited October 4, 2015 by lostoday

[Grouse]

Common sense has fled from USA -- now it is perfectly legal for someone with known and documented serious mental health problems to buy many multiple weapons of mass killings. The crazies are running the asylum I fear.

Maybe know something before you post. I know you are just USA bashing but it makes you look uninformed.

Do you not think you deserve "bashing"?

I, for one, am waiting in vain for an intelligent response from an American to this very real problem

Do you need some grown ups to tell you what is required?

Frankly, it's an embarrassment...

[Linky]

None of the pro gun nutters have a right to complain when their evil nemesis muslims use the right to stay armed and as a consequence go target shooting on the locals.

Oh well, thats life, things happen. Lets all have more guns. Somalia here we come.

[Mosha]

Australia has gun control laws but it still didn't stop this shooting in Sydney yesterday?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/02/17/01/two-feared-shot-in-parramatta-in-sydney-s-west

1 person died. 294 mass shootings in the USA this year. When was Australia's last mass shooting?

[chuckd]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

[sirineou]

when we need minutes a psychopath with a gun is only seconds away

and nine people run out of minutes, I hope soon we will also run out of clever one liners and do the right thing.

Other countries have psychopaths , what they don't have is armed psychopaths,and one liner leadership.

The Detroit Police Officers Association is warning citizens and out-of-towners that they enter Detroit at their own risk, saying that the "grossly understaffed" and overworked police force cannot adequately protect the public in the increasingly violent city.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/08/14294269-visit-detroit-at-your-own-risk-police-union-warns?lite

Average interaction between criminal and victim is 90 seconds. According to American Police Beat, the average response time for an emergency call is 10 minutes. Atlanta has the worst response time with 11 to 12 minutes and Nashville comes in at a lightning speed of 9 minutes.

http://www.self-defense-mind-body-spirit.com/average-police-response-time.html

edit , removed replies to allow response

not arguing the assertion, only the solution

if police is weak, make police stronger, if the laws are not enforced, enforce them, if the laws are inadequate amend them.

Dont kick the ball back in our court and ask as to get a gun and defend our self,

That's why we have law enforcement and that's why we pay taxes.

Dont spend my tax protecting Iraqis from Saddam, spend my tax providing better protection for my self.better schools for my kids, better roads, health care. etc etc etc

Edited October 4, 2015 by sirineou

[Linky]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Thats why we dont go.

Im sure those involved in mass shootings and the after effects also live in fear. There sure are plenty.

[Seastallion]

Australia has gun control laws but it still didn't stop this shooting in Sydney yesterday?

http://www.9news.com.au/national/2015/10/02/17/01/two-feared-shot-in-parramatta-in-sydney-s-west

1 person died. 294 mass shootings in the USA this year. When was Australia's last mass shooting?

I think it was just before the gun controls.

Funny, that.

[Grouse]

What can be done if it's written into the constitution?

American's have the right to bear arms.

How about an amendment? You did it with prohibition....

You should probably look at the procedure for amending the constitution.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/

Thanks for that!

I see it would take 2/3 majority etc

But the problem is nor exactly NP Hard! Difficult, yes, but do-able.

What we need is a bright American lawyer to propose the way forward.

Any takers?

[Seastallion]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

[lostoday]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

I don't think there will be moves for a great firewall of America or the banning on Orwell's 1984. Now you may say but what about the UK or Australia? It should be pointed out that those places are quite small and easy to manage in comparison to America.

Alaska does not have the same problems as NYC. America does not have national ID cards. Many things are different. If you live in many areas in the USA bears/coyotes/wolves steal your food and kill your dogs.

Obama has polarized America. I have far more in common with a farmer from Issan than I do a member of the rainbow coalition from California.

Gun owners aren't living in fear. I kept three legal guns at my business in America. I was in a war. I've used guns in combat and I would not hesitate to use them again if threatened. 21.9 million Americans combat trained veterans of the military all know how to use guns and are not afraid.

[Linky]

The people that do not feel the need to own guns are the people that do not live in fear.

The simple act of feeling the need for a gun is by definition, living in fear.

[Linky]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

I don't think there will be moves for a great firewall of America or the banning on Orwell's 1984. Now you may say but what about the UK or Australia? It should be pointed out that those places are quite small and easy to manage in comparison to America.

Alaska does not have the same problems as NYC. America does not have national ID cards. Many things are different. If you live in many areas in the USA bears/coyotes/wolves steal your food and kill your dogs.

Obama has polarized America. I have far more in common with a farmer from Issan than I do a member of the rainbow coalition from California.

Gun owners aren't living in fear. I kept three legal guns at my business in America. I was in a war. I've used guns in combat and I would not hesitate to use them again if threatened. 21.9 million Americans combat trained veterans of the military all know how to use guns and are not afraid.

Australia is quite small compared to the US? You really do dream this stuff up.

I suggest you use google to compare.

[boomerangutang]

Using the 2nd amendment to justify anyone buying and using a semi-automatic war weapon, is akin to using the 1st amendment (free speech) to allow me to stand in your bedroom with a megaphone and shout my political leanings to you and your wife all night long.

[lostoday]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

I don't think there will be moves for a great firewall of America or the banning on Orwell's 1984. Now you may say but what about the UK or Australia? It should be pointed out that those places are quite small and easy to manage in comparison to America.

Alaska does not have the same problems as NYC. America does not have national ID cards. Many things are different. If you live in many areas in the USA bears/coyotes/wolves steal your food and kill your dogs.

Obama has polarized America. I have far more in common with a farmer from Issan than I do a member of the rainbow coalition from California.

Gun owners aren't living in fear. I kept three legal guns at my business in America. I was in a war. I've used guns in combat and I would not hesitate to use them again if threatened. 21.9 million Americans combat trained veterans of the military all know how to use guns and are not afraid.

Australia is quite small compared to the US? You really do dream this stuff up.

I suggest you use google to compare.

The population of Australia is 10 million less than one state, California (there are 49 other states). If you combine the GDPs of Australia, Burma, the Czech Republic, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Peru and Ukraine, you will have the same size economy as California. California accounted for nearly 3 percent of the worlds GDP in 2008. The Governor of many states in the USA has a significantly larger populations and economies to manage than the country of Australia. Almost all of America is habitable and almost none of Australia is. Australia’s habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being ‘termed’ uninhabitable. http://37propertygroup.com.au/2012/08/12/population-density/

Sorry, it's a small country the size of one State in terms of population and economy and does not have the same problems as a large country like the USA to compare the two is apples to watermelon; it does not compute.

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/california-vs-the-world_2010-05-10/

[lostoday]

Using the 2nd amendment to justify anyone buying and using a semi-automatic war weapon, is akin to using the 1st amendment (free speech) to allow me to stand in your bedroom with a megaphone and shout my political leanings to you and your wife all night long.

The guy in Oregon did not use an assault rifle or machine gun. He used a pistol. Auto or semi auto or revolver in a pistol the rate of fire is hardly different. Also the reason the Constitution has lasted so long is that it has kept pace with the changes in society. A gun in 1776 is still a gun in 2015. Semi automatic speed weapons were available in the 1800's not to long after the Constitution was written.

Edited October 4, 2015 by lostoday

[Seastallion]

It's a good thing none of you gun control freaks are Americans.

You would be living in fear if you were there...or ever went there.

Why is a humanitarian who advocates for measure to lessen the deaths of innocent students a "freak"? That's just plain whacky.

Why do you think any of them would be living in fear? It's the gun nutters that live in fear. Just look at one prominent voice here talking in support of guns: He wants his gun to be able to penetrate body armour in case someone with body armour attacked him. . He also wants his guns to "play the long game" for when his imagined Islamists try to over-run the US. . He also wants his guns to be ready in case the gummint gets uppity. .

Who's living in fear???

Really, who? It's the gun owners who live in fear. That's why they have guns.

I don't think there will be moves for a great firewall of America or the banning on Orwell's 1984. Now you may say but what about the UK or Australia? It should be pointed out that those places are quite small and easy to manage in comparison to America.

Alaska does not have the same problems as NYC. America does not have national ID cards. Many things are different. If you live in many areas in the USA bears/coyotes/wolves steal your food and kill your dogs.

Obama has polarized America. I have far more in common with a farmer from Issan than I do a member of the rainbow coalition from California.

Gun owners aren't living in fear. I kept three legal guns at my business in America. I was in a war. I've used guns in combat and I would not hesitate to use them again if threatened. 21.9 million Americans combat trained veterans of the military all know how to use guns and are not afraid.

The evidence we have on this forum is that gun owners are the ones living in fear...as outlined in my post.

Need to be able to pierce body armour for when that angry Islamist neighbour attacks. Need to be ready for when the gummint 'n revenoo comes a callin'.

Neil Young; "Daddy's rifle in my hand felt reassuring. He told me "red means run, son, numbers add up to nothin'...."

[Seastallion]

Using the 2nd amendment to justify anyone buying and using a semi-automatic war weapon, is akin to using the 1st amendment (free speech) to allow me to stand in your bedroom with a megaphone and shout my political leanings to you and your wife all night long.

The guy in Oregon did not use an assault rifle or machine gun. He used a pistol. Auto or semi auto or revolver in a pistol the rate of fire is hardly different. Also the reason the Constitution has lasted so long is that it has kept pace with the changes in society. A gun in 1776 is still a gun in 2015. Semi automatic speed weapons were available in the 1800's not to long after the Constitution was written.

After.