Israel launches airstrikes on targets in Gaza

[Pakboong]

Gaza is only 860 meters from a town of nearly 30 thousand. They are under observation obviously because the almost immediate IDF press release announces the rocket attack, says from where the rockets were launched and what they hit. Now, why would Hamas launch away from the town and into the dessert? I keep asking this simple question and you simply would not believe the stupid answers I get. The penalty is essentially the same. Air strikes from the IAF are the usual response. I continue to say there is something not quite believable about these rocket attacks.

Hamas is free to travel within Gaza. It is pretty much as if these are controlled launches.

[Steely Dan]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

[Thorgal]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

Thermobaric weapons have been used previously by Israeli Air Forces.

Like in Yemen, on a Iranian base...according to a certain "weapon expert" named Thomas Wicktor. So, it must be true...

War crimes and crimes against humanity have always been flushed as 'fait-divers' by people like Thomas Wicktor. So I'm not that optimistic to see an exception for the strikes of OP.

At the other hand its sadly remarkable to see here on TV the same people who made associations of ISIL war terror to global moderated Islam to spin with international conventions and UN laws...

Now we need to hear that Golan IDF field hospitals are more important than civilians in Gaza. Moreover, thermobaric weapons should be questioned before using against ISIL...

What a joke !

http://osnetdaily.com/2015/05/yet-another-groundbreaking-revelation-on-the-israeli-bomb-dropped-on-irans-yemen-base/

Edited October 6, 2015 by Thorgal

[Steely Dan]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

Thermobaric weapons have been used previously by Israeli Air Forces.

Like in Yemen, on a Iranian base...according to a certain "weapon expert" named Thomas Wicktor. So, it must be true...

War crimes and crimes against humanity have always been flushed as 'fait-divers' by people like Thomas Wicktor. So I'm not that optimistic to see an exception for the strikes of OP.

At the other hand its sadly remarkable to see here on TV the same people who made associations of ISIL war terror to global moderated Islam to spin with international conventions and UN laws...

Now we need to hear that Golan IDF field hospitals are more important than civilians in Gaza. Moreover, thermobaric weapons should be questioned before using against ISIL...

What a joke !

http://osnetdaily.com/2015/05/yet-another-groundbreaking-revelation-on-the-israeli-bomb-dropped-on-irans-yemen-base/

Didn't take long for you to Google thermobaric did it?

Just to be clear despite your weasel phrasing Israel dropped nothing on Yemen themselves. Far greater ordinance is being dropped by all sides in Syria. Russia never got within a fifty mile radius of known Isis positions.

My point regarding the faux humanitarianism of some of our esteemed members stands.

P.S I didn't mention any source by name, you presumed, what's wrong are you afraid that your two best hopes for annihilating Israel (Iran and the Palestinians) are going to get their comeuppance soon?

[thaibeachlovers]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

Thermobaric weapons have been used previously by Israeli Air Forces.

Like in Yemen, on a Iranian base...according to a certain "weapon expert" named Thomas Wicktor. So, it must be true...

War crimes and crimes against humanity have always been flushed as 'fait-divers' by people like Thomas Wicktor. So I'm not that optimistic to see an exception for the strikes of OP.

At the other hand its sadly remarkable to see here on TV the same people who made associations of ISIL war terror to global moderated Islam to spin with international conventions and UN laws...

Now we need to hear that Golan IDF field hospitals are more important than civilians in Gaza. Moreover, thermobaric weapons should be questioned before using against ISIL...

What a joke !

http://osnetdaily.com/2015/05/yet-another-groundbreaking-revelation-on-the-israeli-bomb-dropped-on-irans-yemen-base/

Didn't take long for you to Google thermobaric did it?

Just to be clear despite your weasel phrasing Israel dropped nothing on Yemen themselves. Far greater ordinance is being dropped by all sides in Syria. Russia never got within a fifty mile radius of known Isis positions.

My point regarding the faux humanitarianism of some of our esteemed members stands.

P.S I didn't mention any source by name, you presumed, what's wrong are you afraid that your two best hopes for annihilating Israel (Iran and the Palestinians) are going to get their comeuppance soon?

It will take only 1 thing for Israel to cease to exist in its present form- a US president that does not support them unconditionally.

A small country/ population surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies can't survive without support from a superpower.

Even if it takes 600 years, eventually Israel will be defeated if it does not come to a just arrangement with the Palestinians.

[Linky]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

As per usual you try to divert. If you want to discuss Russia it may be an Idea to start a thread. This one is about Israel so people are discussing that.

[Jingthing]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

Thermobaric weapons have been used previously by Israeli Air Forces.

Like in Yemen, on a Iranian base...according to a certain "weapon expert" named Thomas Wicktor. So, it must be true...

War crimes and crimes against humanity have always been flushed as 'fait-divers' by people like Thomas Wicktor. So I'm not that optimistic to see an exception for the strikes of OP.

At the other hand its sadly remarkable to see here on TV the same people who made associations of ISIL war terror to global moderated Islam to spin with international conventions and UN laws...

Now we need to hear that Golan IDF field hospitals are more important than civilians in Gaza. Moreover, thermobaric weapons should be questioned before using against ISIL...

What a joke !

http://osnetdaily.com/2015/05/yet-another-groundbreaking-revelation-on-the-israeli-bomb-dropped-on-irans-yemen-base/

Didn't take long for you to Google thermobaric did it?

Just to be clear despite your weasel phrasing Israel dropped nothing on Yemen themselves. Far greater ordinance is being dropped by all sides in Syria. Russia never got within a fifty mile radius of known Isis positions.

My point regarding the faux humanitarianism of some of our esteemed members stands.

P.S I didn't mention any source by name, you presumed, what's wrong are you afraid that your two best hopes for annihilating Israel (Iran and the Palestinians) are going to get their comeuppance soon?

It will take only 1 thing for Israel to cease to exist in its present form- a US president that does not support them unconditionally.

A small country/ population surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies can't survive without support from a superpower.

Even if it takes 600 years, eventually Israel will be defeated if it does not come to a just arrangement with the Palestinians.

So in the 600 years time, the Jew haters and obsessive Israel demonizers of the future can have a big old party!

Back to reality, Israel is actively working on building good relations with other powerful nations other than the USA including China, Russia, and India.

It seems to me the relationship with India is especially promising for the future of Israel.

Not to mention the cooperation going on with Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Israel in itself isn't chopped liver either ... the highly skilled and educated Israeli people including it's Arab citizens have a lot to offer the world that the world really needs ... so don't expect "BDS" to ever be seriously implemented.

Nobody can predict the future 600 years from now or even 5 years from now ... but the story of survival of the ancient Jewish people to the present day is still remarkable, regardless of what the future will bring for the Jewish people, for all humans, for our PLANET.

BTW, if some might take that I think that the fate of the Jewish people of the world is linked to the fate of the state of Israel ... yes, that's what I'm saying and that's what I think the majority of Jews think too (no, not all).

Edited October 6, 2015 by Jingthing

[Thorgal]

As per usual a few targeted Israeli airstrikes brings the usual round the clock ranting about just about every wrong some believe Israel to have committed. I wonder how many of the obsessive Israel demonizers are aware that Russia is dropping thermobaric bombs on civilian targets in Syria, a clear war crime if ever there was one. But nothing, nada, zilch there as usual, I doubt if any of our esteemed members even knows what a thermobaric bomb is, though if Israel used one they would quickly assume the role of experts in such munitions.

P.s Collective punishment, stabbing babies and murdering civilians just because they are Jewish is the epitome of collective punishment.

Thermobaric weapons have been used previously by Israeli Air Forces.

Like in Yemen, on a Iranian base...according to a certain "weapon expert" named Thomas Wicktor. So, it must be true...

War crimes and crimes against humanity have always been flushed as 'fait-divers' by people like Thomas Wicktor. So I'm not that optimistic to see an exception for the strikes of OP.

At the other hand its sadly remarkable to see here on TV the same people who made associations of ISIL war terror to global moderated Islam to spin with international conventions and UN laws...

Now we need to hear that Golan IDF field hospitals are more important than civilians in Gaza. Moreover, thermobaric weapons should be questioned before using against ISIL...

What a joke !

http://osnetdaily.com/2015/05/yet-another-groundbreaking-revelation-on-the-israeli-bomb-dropped-on-irans-yemen-base/

Didn't take long for you to Google thermobaric did it?

Just to be clear despite your weasel phrasing Israel dropped nothing on Yemen themselves. Far greater ordinance is being dropped by all sides in Syria. Russia never got within a fifty mile radius of known Isis positions.

My point regarding the faux humanitarianism of some of our esteemed members stands.

P.S I didn't mention any source by name, you presumed, what's wrong are you afraid that your two best hopes for annihilating Israel (Iran and the Palestinians) are going to get their comeuppance soon?

It will take only 1 thing for Israel to cease to exist in its present form- a US president that does not support them unconditionally.

A small country/ population surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies can't survive without support from a superpower.

Even if it takes 600 years, eventually Israel will be defeated if it does not come to a just arrangement with the Palestinians.

So in the 600 years time, the Jew haters and obsessive Israel demonizers of the future can have a big old party!

Back to reality, Israel is actively working on building good relations with other powerful nations other than the USA including China, Russia, and India.

It seems to me the relationship with India is especially promising for the future of Israel.

Not to mention the cooperation going on with Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Israel in itself isn't chopped liver either ... the highly skilled and educated Israeli people including it's Arab citizens have a lot to offer the world that the world really needs ... so don't expect "BDS" to ever be seriously implemented.

Nobody can predict the future 600 years from now or even 5 years from now ... but the story of survival of the ancient Jewish people to the present day is still remarkable, regardless of what the future will bring for the Jewish people, for all humans, for our PLANET.

BTW, if some might take that I think that the fate of the Jewish people of the world is linked to the fate of the state of Israel ... yes, that's what I'm saying and that's what I think the majority of Jews think too (no, not all).

I completely agree with you.

Your quote :

"It seems to me the relationship with India is especially promising for the future of Israel."

Indeed, it's quite controversial that Israel blames according to Israeli media only, that again rockets were fired from Gaza. I've my serious doubts about that like another poster pointed it.

In the meanwhile, Israel is striving to boost its local economy with large amounts of weapon sales in the region: just have a look at the YouTube clip in attachment :

http://www.stratpost.com/rafaels-innovative-video-marketing-for-india

...dinga-dinga, dinga-dinga, dinga-dinga-dee,...the partner in 'indigenous' air systems...

It's not appreciated, like in OP, to use other more indigenous air systems elsewhere...

Edited October 6, 2015 by Thorgal

[Morch]

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed a harsh response to the apparent upsurge in violence saying the country was in an “all-out war against terror”.

Such a shame they won't or can't or dare not go after the real enemies I.S.I.S..

Palestinians, a soft option target for the ''macho Israeli armed forces !!!

Nice try, but ISIS running rampant does not spell a free pass for Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah etc.

That some posters declare ISIS to be Israel "real enemy", thereby trying to paint a picture in which other terrorist organizations are not is a rather weak attempt at deflection.

If and when ISIS will be become a direct threat to Israel, it can be counted upon to react. The usual chorus will then either bemoan about "civilian casualties", "disproportionate response", "ignoring the sovereignty of neighboring countries" and depreciate anything which will not amount to total destruction of ISIS within 24 hours.

The only Israeli border currently relevant to ISIS presence (sort of) is down south along the Sinai Desert. So far the Egyptian Army is doing its best to deal with the threat, and doubtful that it would welcome uninvited Israeli attacks inside Egyptian territory. Otherwise, Jordan and Lebanon are not as yet infested by ISIS, while the area of Syria bordering Israel is not quite within their sphere of control at this time (those would alternately be.forces loyal to Assad with some Hezbollah, Jabhat al-Nusra and remnants of non-Islamic anti-Assad rebels).

[slerickson]

Hebe's must have spotted some vertical walls. Or was it stone throwing children?

[Morch]

Bomb Gaza for incidents in the West Bank. A bit strange like collective punishment with a twist.

7 posters with reading comprehension issues:

GAZA: -- Israeli fighter jets have launched airstrikes on targets in Gaza overnight, in response to what they say was rocket fire from the coastal enclave.

[Morch]

There they go again, creating a whole new bunch of enemies. They are the best recruiting agent Hamas could wish for.

It is true that each Israeli attack maintains the Palestinian narrative which facilitates recruiting new terrorists.

The air strike, though, did not occur without context, as this is not the first rocket launch since the de-facto cease fire.

The air strike was conducted after the rocket launch and as a response. Not the other way around. It might not be a very effective one at that, but it is what it is.

Following the logic of your post, the prospect of recruitment benefits from the Israeli response seems to be a good enough incentive for some in Gaza to put their own populace in harm's way. Of course, that angle is usually ignored by those supporting a biased view of the conflict.

[Morch]

Yes, such is life...

For some trash openly provoking many people by their terrorist mentality shooting innocent bystanders or children is freedom fighting.

On the other hand the killing of terrorists launching rockets especially when there are innocent bystanders or children across the border is collective punishment.

Collective punishment as an education measure did work wonders in the past. I would recommend at least to go after all family members of terrorists and jihadists.

The BS stories about family not knowing "NUSING" about their offspring activity can only work in a PC climate of deaf, blind and dumb politicians. Or in "Hogan's Heroes".

Fears of reprisals for all family members would keep many hot heads in check. If not - it would help to alleviate the problem through reduction of potential grounds for breeding terrorism.

Imams known to teach extremist views to their flock should also be made responsible. In a very harsh way. Didn't see many cases against these "wholesalers of opium for people".

The real problem is too many people are afraid to be called "racist", Islamophobes", "Politically Incorrect" and as a result are not capable to fight against the maladies of present times.

Many of us are being exploited through these fears. Count me out.

Do tell how collective punishment worked wonders in this conflict so far.

[Morch]

Perhaps you overlooked the fact collective punishment is illegal.

"Illegal".

Tell that to the Western allies who bombed the shit out of Berlin night after night after night until the German people decided they'd had enough of the war.

It worked too, didn't it?

I LOVE this false concept that some have that there is a body somewhere which enforces laws against sovereign nations. That only happens when there is all-out war and even then only the winner is the enforcer.

I'm sure Russia is terrified of this "illegal" concept as it bombs in Syria.

Get real.

Israel is not Russia.

[Morch]

That's true. But that was in a declared war. And the Luftwaffe bombed the shit (to use your colourful phrase) out of London, Coventry, Plymouth and many other UK cities. When did the Palestinian Air Force last attack Israel?

There is no requirement for attacks to be carried out by an air force.

Would have imagined the more immediate analogy would include the V-1 and V-2 attacks.

By the say, shooting unguided rockets at civilian populations is considered a violation of international law (what many posters like to call a "war crime"). With regard to the rocket launches from Gaza, this was rather promptly acknowledged by the UN and even by the Palestinians themselves.

[Morch]

Bomb Gaza for incidents in the West Bank. A bit strange like collective punishment with a twist.

Rockets were fired from Gaza into

southern Israel

And it has been happening on an almost daily basis the last 3 weeks before Israel reacted.

Not really. About 6-7 rocket attacks since September 1, 2015.

However, it is irrelevant - not something that Israel should accept and reconcile itself to.

[Morch]

Bomb Gaza for incidents in the West Bank. A bit strange like collective punishment with a twist.

Rockets were fired from Gaza into

southern Israel

And it has been happening on an almost daily basis the last 3 weeks before Israel reacted.

And, the Israelis have been oppressing the Palestinians everyday for about the last 30 years or more. Would you accept it if you had been born Palestinian?

If the point was that by now both sides stocked enough reasons to hate each other, there a cookie in it for you. The litany of woes and wrongs done to "Us" by "Them" which gets deployed by either side, on almost every occasion, serves mainly to justify the ongoing violence and cement the adherence to the group narrative. It usually appears with an underlying theme - placement of blame and responsibility on the opposing side.

[Morch]

Yes, such is life...

For some trash openly provoking many people by their terrorist mentality shooting innocent bystanders or children is freedom fighting.

On the other hand the killing of terrorists launching rockets especially when there are innocent bystanders or children across the border is collective punishment.

Collective punishment as an education measure did work wonders in the past. I would recommend at least to go after all family members of terrorists and jihadists.

The BS stories about family not knowing "NUSING" about their offspring activity can only work in a PC climate of deaf, blind and dumb politicians. Or in "Hogan's Heroes".

Fears of reprisals for all family members would keep many hot heads in check. If not - it would help to alleviate the problem through reduction of potential grounds for breeding terrorism.

Imams known to teach extremist views to their flock should also be made responsible. In a very harsh way. Didn't see many cases against these "wholesalers of opium for people".

The real problem is too many people are afraid to be called "racist", Islamophobes", "Politically Incorrect" and as a result are not capable to fight against the maladies of present times.

Many of us are being exploited through these fears. Count me out.

Perhaps you overlooked the fact collective punishment is illegal.

True.But when you are facing an opponent that are driven by an collective hate to you,should you sit back and do nothing ?

Up to me I'd try and stop them hating me. It's time for a change as the old ways don't work- never did.

Interesting how acceptance of the other, tolerance, and turning the other cheek come easy when things crop elsewhere around the world.

Would this approach be recommended when addressing certain issues relating to followers of the Religion of Peace in, say, the UK?

Totally different, of course, and yet....

[Morch]

The hate they have for Israel has nothing to do with the establishment of a jewish state in 1948.The Palestinians are they own worst enemies and until they recognize the two-state solution they have absolutely no sympathy from me.

Some of the Palestinians do accept it, and some do not.

Some of the Israelis accept it, and some do not.

Question is if sympathy is denied to both, to some on either side, or to one's side of choice.

[thaibeachlovers]

Perhaps you overlooked the fact collective punishment is illegal.

True.But when you are facing an opponent that are driven by an collective hate to you,should you sit back and do nothing ?

Up to me I'd try and stop them hating me. It's time for a change as the old ways don't work- never did.

Interesting how acceptance of the other, tolerance, and turning the other cheek come easy when things crop elsewhere around the world.

Would this approach be recommended when addressing certain issues relating to followers of the Religion of Peace in, say, the UK?

Totally different, of course, and yet....

Seeing as you brought it up, Britain made peace with the IRA a long time ago, and they have been getting along since then.

Hatred can last for centuries, but would you like to live like that?

[Morch]

And, the Israelis have been oppressing the Palestinians everyday for about the last 30 years or more. Would you accept it if you had been born Palestinian?

NO ONE has ever been "born Palestinian".

There is and never was a nation called Palestine. There never was a people called "Palestinians" until terrorists under the leadership of Yasser Arafat hijacked that name in the 1960's.

Cheers.

Mmmkay...so following that line of thought, it is not possible for any group of people existing today to declare themselves a nation or express a desire to become an independent state, unless they have a previous entry in recorded history. Less clear is who sets the closing of the lists date, and who can appeal existing members of the Nation Club. The English probably had the same notion back when them pesky colonists started to get ideas...

People do not need a certificate from the Ministry of History in order to define themselves as a distinct group. Boundaries of countries are not set in stone. They can also call themselves whatever they like, or whatever fits. Who did the Palestinians "hijack" the name from? (cue inane pseudo lecture on the ancient history of Palestine). Call them Umpa Lumpas if it makes things easier - does Israel oppress the Umpa Lumpas, then?

And, what does it have to do with the OP?

[OMGImInPattaya]

More Zionist regime war crimes...must be apeing their master and protector here.

[Jingthing]

This doesn't really appear to be a major escalation of the Gaza vs. Israel conflict. Not even a minor one for that matter. Not sure why it deserves attention even in the context of recent events elsewhere in Israel, Judea, Samaria, and the greater Middle East. The way the middle east news seems to work these days is that if a Jewish solder sneezes rudely on an Arab that's more of a news event than Muslims beheading a few other Muslims in Syria. It has be something like 100 Muslims beheading other Muslims to trump the sneeze. Exaggeration? Yes. But not by much ... admit it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Jingthing

[Linky]

This doesn't really appear to be a major escalation of the Gaza vs. Israel conflict. Not even a minor one for that matter. Not sure why it deserves attention even in the context of recent events elsewhere in Israel, Judea, Samaria, and the greater Middle East. The way the middle east news seems to work these days is that if a Jewish solder sneezes rudely on an Arab that's more of a news event than Muslims beheading a few other Muslims in Syria. It has be something like 100 Muslims beheading other Muslims to trump the sneeze. Exaggeration? Yes. But not by much ... admit it.

Probably because of the disparity between the opressor and the oppressed.

If 100 muslims get killed not much will be said. 1 Israeli killed then fire and brimstone for a month followed by settlers movng in and Bibi crying hat the UN is against them.

Its also because the world no longer believes Israeli lies.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Linky

[ABCer]

To the proponents of "legality": - It is a man made concept. It was done by men and can be undone by men.

In fact collective punishment has been used by many in many cases. It works wonders.

Whoever says "Palestinians" have nowhere to go: - The Gaza Arabs have come from many neighboring and some distant Arab countries. The British Mandate authorities records show that Arabs were a minority in Mandate Territory.

In fact they are a bunch of rejects from Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and even Saudi Arabia. They were sent to Gaza to make war. And they are paid for this activity today.

The minor fact that some are getting killed is taken care of by Mullahs. Those Arabs who really lived in today's Israel territories and wanted to stay - stayed.

Fact - they do have where to go.

To stop Arabs hate them Jews have to commit collective suicide. - I am sure some apologists of all things "Palestinian" here would not mind. Besides, it was done before (for them).

Bad news is - they refuse!

To those who think " Palestinians are their own worst enemies" - You are right more than you think. Saudis expelled them. Lebanese hate them for Hisbullah actions. Jordanians would never let their 'brothers' back since they use their land. Egyptians? - Don't make me laugh! In fact the rest of Arab world holds them as pariahs. Not one Arab country wants them!

With a bit of humor you may call them "the Jews of Arab world".

To the believers in general: - If you believe in a One State Solution with Jews and "Palestinians" - find some other more realistic belief.

If you believe in Two States Solution with Jews and "Palestinians" - find something else to believe in.

If you believe in Oppression and Genocide of "Palestinians" by Jews, Israelis or any other group - please tell me

- who pays them money?

- who feeds them?

- what did they create in nearly 70 years except tunnels, suiciders, rockets and bombs?

- by what miracle they have managed to breed from 600,000 to about 2,000,000?

- due to what miracle the bunch of 'deprived big mouth hooligans' is suffering from obesity?

P.S. I am not a lunatic. I do not expect to convince crazy pro-"Palestinian" brigade here. They may come out now.

Edited October 7, 2015 by ABCer

[Linky]

Please show how collective punishment has worked with the Palestinians. Has it got better because of it?

[Morch]

The hate they have for Israel has nothing to do with the establishment of a jewish state in 1948.The Palestinians are they own worst enemies and until they recognize the two-state solution they have absolutely no sympathy from me.

You have got your information completely the wrong way around. It's the Palestinians who support a 2 state solution, while the current right wing Israeli government does not.

"On the final day of his reelection campaign, Benjamin Netanyahu said that as long as he serves as prime minister of Israel, there will not be an independent Palestinian nation."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/on-final-day-of-campaign-netanyahu-says-no-palestinian-state-if-he-wins/2015/03/16/4f4468e8-cbdc-11e4-8730-4f473416e759_story.html

He later tried to back track on this when the US protested that John Kerry had just spent 9 months trying negotiate a 2 state solution. deal.

The Palestinians recognized the State of Israel 22 years ago. They are still waiting for Israel to reciprocate.

Letter from Yasser Arafat to Prime Minister Rabin. September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin

Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security."

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

Arafat's letter (1993) wasn't quite the end of it, as no actual changes were made in the Palestinian National Covenant at the time. This caused quite a lot of difficulties between the sides, with a few repeat acts of Arafat providing partial and unsatisfactory clarifications. The ordeal was supposedly officially concluded in 1998 (in Gaza and with Clinton present). Only it wasn't, quite. More like transferred to a committee etc. The result it that one can find various versions of the covenant, even on official Palestinian websites (mostly in Arabic), with the same evident at the education system. It keeps popping back every now and then (this quote from 2009, for example, and note that the reference to the covenant as if it wasn't changed):

Nabil Shaath, a veteran member of Fatah's ruling Central Committee, told Reuters that the charter "cannot be changed." Azzam al-Ahmad, another senior Fatah leader, said: "It will remain as is. It won't be subject to discussion."

"We have the right to practice all forms of national struggle," Ahmad said. "We are in the phase of national liberation and we have the right to use all means in the fight to end the occupation until we establish the state."

Palestinian analysts said Fatah, seeking to infuse its top ranks with new blood, would find it hard to compete with Hamas if it amended its charter before reaching any deal with Israel to establish an independent Palestinian state.

http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE57264N20090803?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Be that as it may...

The claim that Palestinians, in general, are reconciled with the notion of the two-state solution and fully accept its implications is incorrect. Enough to point out that the all of the above refers to the PLO (or rather, Fatah), and not the Hamas (cue link to worn out statement by Hamas, while ignoring its context and the multitude of other to the contrary).

If one holds that the Covenant was amended,, and that as such it reflects the notions meant to guide the Palestinians - might be worth to bear in mind that some of the articles supposedly nullified include denial of Israel's legitimacy, denial of the historical-religious connection of the Jews to Palestine, defining Zionism as colonialism, fascism, imperialism and racism. There more in that vein, Wonder is some of our esteemed members would see fit to adopt these amendments?

[Morch]

This looks to be a clear case of collective punishment. Hamas did not fire rockets at Israel, but Netanyahu is itching to start a fight again with Hamas. He did it last year to boost his chances in an election. Can't you see the pattern...every single time.

"Israeli warplanes launched airstrikes on targets in Gaza overnight in retaliation to rocket fire directed at Israeli territory earlier in the day. Although an ISIS-affiliated group claimed responsibility for the attack, Israel holds Hamas responsible.|

https://www.rt.com/news/317634-israel-gaza-idf-airstrikes/

Please remember this fact when Hamas is provoked into retaliation and Israel starts muddying the waters and timeline of who started what...exactly as they have done previously.

It's the great Israeli hoax: play the victim, when you are in fact the aggressor.

How is retaliating for the rockets launched a collective punishment? If posters wish to bring that up, perhaps they will display some integrity and tag the rocket launched as the same? After all, the rockets were not direct at a specific "oppressor", were they?

Can't have it both ways: if Hamas wishes to be considered as sovereign (de-facto, at least) the responsibility to keep the peace falls on its shoulders. Unless mistaken that is more or less one of the tenants of the unofficial ceasefire. Not too clear on why certain posters insist Hamas is not accountable on some posts, while commending Hamas for keeping a lead on things in other topics.

Netanyahu is not itching for any fight, especially not at the Gaza Strip at this time. Too much on his plate as it is with the West Bank on fire. The usual inane and supposed linkage between Gaza fighting and boosting election chances - so once again, almost all such military episodes proved detrimental to electoral success. One might say that Netanyahu was elected despite the last Gaza fighting, not because of it. Did nothing good for his public image. And obviously, there are no forthcoming elections in Israel.

This is not the first time rockets were launched since the unofficial ceasefire, and not even the first since September. Not really isolated incident.

Hamas is not "provoked", more like "reminded" to do what it agreed to. The usual denial of any responsibility by Palestinians is ridiculous. Either there's a ceasefire, which Hamas agreed to keep (as in keep other organizations from breaking it as well) or there isn't.

The "hoax" alluded to is reversed - the Palestinian launch rockets, and posters supporting them whine when Israel retaliates. The aggressor, in this case, is whomever launched the rockets, the air strike followed. Not the other way around. And to be clear, again, Hamas is accountable for keeping the peace - funny how that does not feature much in the post above.

With all this noise about "collective punishment", some lose sight that this is what the Israeli air strike amounted to:

The Israel Defense Forces said in a statement that it had targeted "terror infrastructure" belonging to Hamas, adding that it holds the organization responsible for the escalation.

According to sources in Gaza, the strike targeted a training facility used by the Iz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing. The facility, located south of Gaza City, was severely damaged, but no one was hurt.

Two rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip toward Israel late Sunday evening, one hitting an open area in southern Israel while another exploded within the Strip.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.678835

So really, more of a warning message to Hamas.

Don't let the facts confuse you.

[Morch]

Gaza is only 860 meters from a town of nearly 30 thousand. They are under observation obviously because the almost immediate IDF press release announces the rocket attack, says from where the rockets were launched and what they hit. Now, why would Hamas launch away from the town and into the dessert? I keep asking this simple question and you simply would not believe the stupid answers I get. The penalty is essentially the same. Air strikes from the IAF are the usual response. I continue to say there is something not quite believable about these rocket attacks.

Hamas is free to travel within Gaza. It is pretty much as if these are controlled launches.

[Morch]

It will take only 1 thing for Israel to cease to exist in its present form- a US president that does not support them unconditionally.

A small country/ population surrounded by an overwhelming number of enemies can't survive without support from a superpower.

Even if it takes 600 years, eventually Israel will be defeated if it does not come to a just arrangement with the Palestinians.

You're doing it wrong. Ought to be wearing a cloak and sounding all cryptic. Why can't you be more like Nostradamus?

No nation plans 600 years into the future, and it's a pretty futile exercise anyway. Doubt it? Think what folks back in 1415 knew...

The other fallacy is erroneously assuming all current conditions are maintained without change. And besides, why wait so long?

The Iranian guy said it will only take 25 years...

Losing the USA's support would certainly be a blow to Israel. If and when this happens, though, it does necessarily spell Israel's

immediate capitulation. Even if that's some poster's fantasy. Also, it assumes that the current global balance of power stays exactly

the same, without other shifts in alliances and influence.

While crystal balling is fun, what does it have to do with the OP?