Nicked 3000bt at Korat imm?

[farangmick]

At Phitsanulok Immigration I subscribed to the totally voluntary 1000 baht VIP scheme. No receipt, but I got some stamped addressed envelopes for my TM 47, and a number, used on all correspondence. I thought "what the hell", for a few baht and a bag of Whichianburi chicken every year, I might be up for a bit of leeway if I am late with the 90 day, or need some copying done on the annual trip. And so it has proved.

[Shadychris]

And I always enjoy posts from Westerner Johnny-come-latelies who think that the habits of millennia in Asia should be changed to suit their ideas of fairness.

Good luck with that.

Yeah, me and my crazy, western ideas of theft being wrong... If all thought like you we would still be stuck in the middle-ages, because why should anyone make an effort to change bad things?

Thais have accepted corruption for a long time because they've haven't had a choice, but the winds of change are blowing and we are slowly but steadily going towards a less corrupt society where people are getting less afraid of reporting injustice. You and your corruption-loving friends can continue to be a part of the problem if you so wish, but people with higher morals who won't stand for it won't.

It's not theft. The OP was asked to pay an extra fee. He had a choice as to whether he paid that fee or not. You can call that extra fee whatever you like, tea money, bribe or backhander. You could also describe it as corruption or very possibly at a push, extortion, but it is not theft.

Many countries in Asia work this way, not just Thailand but the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and surely many more too. It's no big secret, we as educated Westerners all know the score before we choose to settle in these countries - and choose is the operative word here - if you are not happy to accept such a way of life then don't choose to live in such places. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

In the meantime be careful up there on your high horse - it's a long way to fall...

I don't disagree with the content of your post, but if you really believe that is not theft then your values are skewed!

Theft is defined as 'stealing, or an instance of stealing'

Stealing is defined as 'taking property without permission'

By association then, theft is taking property without permission. In this case the OP consented to pay the 'fee' so it is not theft.

As far as theft goes I don't think my values are skewed - I despise it.

Corruption though is a different matter - you will not find any definition of corruption as used in this context of officialdom, that includes the words theft or stealing. Instead you will find words like fraudulent and dishonest typically involving bribery.

Do I think corruption is OK - probably not but we don't live in an ideal world, and I am realistic enough to admit it happens everywhere in the world. Just that the oh so 'PC' West is much better at hiding it or playing it down - MP's expense fiddles, insider stocks and shares trading, business deals\contracts agreed on the golf course, dodgy planning dept 'deals' for land and business development, international 'arms for oil' trade deals - the list goes on and on.

The big difference is in the West it is done at a much higher level - the general population get no benefit from it, but ultimately pay for it all through our taxes. I much prefer to deal with a system where corruption is more transparent, and where I can benefit from it - such as by paying a small 'fee' to smooth a visa application, or paying a paltry 500 bht 'fine' to make a traffic offence 'go away'. At least I know that money is going to help someone who probably exists on a very much lower income than myself, and not into the pockets of some fat cat western businessman or high up government official who already has far more than he needs!

[Shadychris]

Yeah, me and my crazy, western ideas of theft being wrong... If all thought like you we would still be stuck in the middle-ages, because why should anyone make an effort to change bad things?

Thais have accepted corruption for a long time because they've haven't had a choice, but the winds of change are blowing and we are slowly but steadily going towards a less corrupt society where people are getting less afraid of reporting injustice. You and your corruption-loving friends can continue to be a part of the problem if you so wish, but people with higher morals who won't stand for it won't.

It's not theft. The OP was asked to pay an extra fee. He had a choice as to whether he paid that fee or not. You can call that extra fee whatever you like, tea money, bribe or backhander. You could also describe it as corruption or very possibly at a push, extortion, but it is not theft.

Many countries in Asia work this way, not just Thailand but the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and surely many more too. It's no big secret, we as educated Westerners all know the score before we choose to settle in these countries - and choose is the operative word here - if you are not happy to accept such a way of life then don't choose to live in such places. When in Rome do as the Romans do.

In the meantime be careful up there on your high horse - it's a long way to fall...

Not really surprising that someone naming themself as Shady would condone theft.

Theft

"the action or crime of stealing."

Whatever method he chose this IO has stolen 3,000 baht from the OP because no such "extra fee" exists.

I choose to live here and I'm happy to pay any legitimate fees that immigration charge for me to do that!

See post #92

Stealing

"taking property without permission"

The OP consented to pay the 'fee'.

[elviajero]

Theft is defined as 'stealing, or an instance of stealing'

Stealing is defined as 'taking property without permission'

By association then, theft is taking property without permission. In this case the OP consented to pay the 'fee' so it is not theft.

Theft

"the action or crime of stealing."

Whatever method he chose this IO has stolen 3,000 baht from the OP because no such "extra fee" exists.

I choose to live here and I'm happy to pay any legitimate fees that immigration charge for me to do that!

See post #92

Stealing

"taking property without permission"

The OP consented to pay the 'fee'.

I can't believe you're trying to justify this!

In common usage, theft is the taking of another person's property without that person's permission or consent with the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it.The word is also used as an informal shorthand term for some crimes against property, such as burglary, embezzlement, larceny, looting, robbery, shoplifting, library theft, and fraud (i.e., obtaining money under false pretenses)

[KittenKong]

"the only apparent choice he had was to pay or not have his extension renewed"

He had four choices actually, either to pay the fee or not pay the fee, and in both cases the added choice of raising the matter with a higher official in the immigration dept

On the day he only had two choices, as I mentioned: pay and get the extension or not pay and not get it. Any complaints or subsequent action would have been secondary, and may not even have been possible.

"As long as things like that are allowed to continue Thailand will always be classed as a third-world country full of intrinsically untrustworthy people."

The definition of a third world country has nothing to do with corruption or being full of intrinsically untrustworthy people A third world country is quite simply one not allied with either the US or communist bloc.

OK, call them "poor" or "developing" if you like. It changes nothing.

What a bigoted view you have... There is plenty of corruption in western societies too - they are just better at hiding it.

Very odd then that I managed to spend 50 years in Europe without ever being asked for a bribe by any official at all. And I always got a full and exact receipt for every payment I ever made to any official. And all rules were always applied entirely fairly to me.

Not only that but in all that time I never knew anyone who had been asked for a bribe or any other illegal payment, nor did I know anyone who wanted to get something done illegally by paying a bribe.

Maybe I was just lucky.

If that is your real opinion and belief then why did you choose to settle in Thailand in the first place? why do you choose to continue to stay? and why do you have such interest in Thai Visa?

Do you see yourself as some knight in shining armour on a white charger come to save the Kingdom from itself? Or are you just a troll?

I live here because I like the country, not because I like Thais or their corrupt practices. My only contacts with Thai officialdom are my yearly visa extension (for which I have never been asked for any sort of extra unofficial payment) and my yearly trip to the tax office to get a refund on my withholding taxes. Both pass quickly and without complaint.

As for why I bother posting about this on here: it's because I believe it is important and I think that others should find getting their extension as easy as I do. It annoys me that they are apparently being taken advantage of.

[meatboy]

i do seem a little confused,the op.says 3,000bht.nicked,so is he saying he had to pay 4,900bht.for his extension.YES OR NO.

if he did he needs to find out WHY so a polite call to head office bkk.would be in order.

[Liquorice]

i do seem a little confused,the op.says 3,000bht.nicked,so is he saying he had to pay 4,900bht.for his extension.YES OR NO.

if he did he needs to find out WHY so a polite call to head office bkk.would be in order.

Yes!

1,900 baht for marriage extension. (receipt)

3,000 baht to cover IO expenses to do a home visit. (no receipt)

[bunnydrops]

reply to Shady

There are many more people in this country that could use the 3000bt than some guy who is having problems paying his monthly payment on the SUV he drove to work in.

[Jessi]

reply to Shady

There are many more people in this country that could use the 3000bt than some guy who is having problems paying his monthly payment on the SUV he drove to work in.

Well said.

[watcharacters]

I wasn't charged to transfer stuff to a new PP...

Thailand is the land of paperwork and rubber stamps. EVERYTHING regarding immigration and handing over cash is covered by paperwork, a receipt, no receipt means beer money..

I wasnt charged for that in Jomtien either.

In fact in Jomtien the only common rip-off seems to be the residence certificate "fee", which also never qualifies for a receipt and so, by definition, cannot be a valid fee.

Wasn't there a ruling some time back that immigration would no longer even deal with the residence certificate? Of course, that is, unless there was a small fee attached to doing so.

[meatboy]

i do seem a little confused,the op.says 3,000bht.nicked,so is he saying he had to pay 4,900bht.for his extension.YES OR NO.

if he did he needs to find out WHY so a polite call to head office bkk.would be in order.

Yes!

1,900 baht for marriage extension. (receipt)

3,000 baht to cover IO expenses to do a home visit. (no receipt)

thanks faz,i have been going to korat imm.for 6yrs and have always found them to be very efficiant.but i have always been polite.

the last twice i have seen the other side of them but that was after getting abuse from farangs.

next month my extension is due along with my 90 day report,with the same officer doing both.i have always put 2,000bht in an envelope and been offered the change.to which i reply keep it for your lunch.

so the op needs to find out what the 3,000bht.was FOR.

[PlastikbinLina]

The man is a thief and should be reported. Always ask to see the senior officer at the location you make an application for. Another way around it is telling him your accountant insists on a receipt for all your important costs. I would ask to see the OIC ASAP before it dies away for lack of action.

[never me]

The man is a thief and should be reported. Always ask to see the senior officer at the location you make an application for. Another way around it is telling him your accountant insists on a receipt for all your important costs. I would ask to see the OIC ASAP before it dies away for lack of action.

I agree 100% with your post.

Far too much corruption in this country, wow even the police are talking about how corrupt the Immigration police are, now that is saying something.

[transam]

The man is a thief and should be reported. Always ask to see the senior officer at the location you make an application for. Another way around it is telling him your accountant insists on a receipt for all your important costs. I would ask to see the OIC ASAP before it dies away for lack of action.

Agreed....Just ask questions.....For sure we don't know who is in the back door gravy chain, BUT, ask a question, and those in control will sit up as stuff may STUFF their bigger picture..

[bunnydrops]

OK, I have TRIED to report this, but the only phone number I can find for the Immigration Main office to ASK about this fee 02287310110 does not work. I called 1111 several times but just after speaking to the English speaking operator and tell her in general what the problem is about, she says she will connect me with the appropriate office-- then the line goes dead. I called several times over the last two days. I am going to give up. A little wiser for my trouble but next time be prepared.

FOR MEATMAN

I am not sure how you know you will be meeting with this same officer. He was not there 1 1/2 years ago when I was last in that office. The man who sat in that chair at that time was older, maybe 50 whom was the one I had mostly dealt with in the past, This new guy is in his 30s I think

[meatboy]

OK, I have TRIED to report this, but the only phone number I can find for the Immigration Main office to ASK about this fee 02287310110 does not work. I called 1111 several times but just after speaking to the English speaking operator and tell her in general what the problem is about, she says she will connect me with the appropriate office-- then the line goes dead. I called several times over the last two days. I am going to give up. A little wiser for my trouble but next time be prepared.

FOR MEATMAN

I am not sure how you know you will be meeting with this same officer. He was not there 1 1/2 years ago when I was last in that office. The man who sat in that chair at that time was older, maybe 50 whom was the one I had mostly dealt with in the past, This new guy is in his 30s I think

no not the one that you saw.i have saw officers tell farangs take a seperate tkt.for 90day reports.my last 3 extensions and 90day reports where done by,

women officers and the last by a male at the same time.the last few yrs.the staff there have been changed about 3times but as i said so far so good.

[ableguy]

I have been dealing with the Korat Immigration office for years on my Non Imm O visa and have never had any problems at all.

The officers have always been very helpful and honest.

One of them even went way out of her way to help me on her day off.

I have never before heard anyone with anything but praise for the Korat office.

I can not help but suspect something is wrong with this post.

Obviously outdid not read my post last week.