Netanyahu accuses Arabs of incitement in wave of stabbings

[Morch]

This is how Israel treats Palestinian kids, they get shot then let them bleed to death on the streets while Israelis scream bleed to death, how humane are these people?

https://www.facebook.com/HASSAN.SAIED.pss/videos/947466175326455/

The kid and his cousin just critically stabbed two Israelis, one of the wounded about the same age.

Must have missed this part of the OP before posting:

including an assault by two attackers in the east Jerusalem area of Pisgat Zeev. Police said the pair seriously wounded a 20-year-old man before attacking a teenage boy on a bicycle.

The boy was critically wounded before police shot and killed one of the attackers, while the second was run over by a car. Abdel Nasser Manasra, a relative of Ahmed, 13, and Hassan, 15, said both were cousins. He did not know which had been killed.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Morch

[billd766]

The Palis got to get over it. Israel is there to stay.

They can wield their little knives all they want but the jewish State isn't going anywhere.

Neither Is the State of Palestine so perhaps Israel should learn to live in peace with them.

[Jingthing]

The Palis got to get over it. Israel is there to stay.

They can wield their little knives all they want but the jewish State isn't going anywhere.

Neither Is the State of Palestine so perhaps Israel should learn to live in peace with them.

What state of Palestine? Is Gaza in it?

[Morch]

This is how Israel treats Palestinian kids, they get shot then let them bleed to death on the streets while Israelis scream bleed to death, how humane are these people?

https://www.facebook.com/HASSAN.SAIED.pss/videos/947466175326455/

Amazing how trolling has no limits.

SO he is shot to death and must be my miracle gets up half way through the clip

Total resurrection, a bit like you?

Oh sorry forgot to mention, somehow in the beginning he is lying in a pool of blood with both legs twisted and once camera is away and back, there is no blood and legs all normal.

Anymore hard evidence?

Love arab film making skills, can not even manage to do that right.

Are you really saying that that is not authentic footage?

Appalling blind hatred, not to mention very poor observation.

Of course, the apologists do not have the honour to point out your sheer lack of realism, but on that count, I would be glad to be proved wrong.

The footage is authentic, but presented out of context. The kid wasn't shot while innocently walking down the street.

Making the clip the focal point, rather than the attacks carried out by the Kid and his cousin, even glossing over them completely - how is that realism?

Abbas first said in Arabic the kid was executed (which he obviously wasn't), then when it couldn't be denied he was alive, it was changed to "shot in cold blood" on the English version (haven't noticed a correction for the Arabic quotes, but could have missed it among the noise). But note that even "shot in cold blood" is a lie, and that there is absolutely no mention in both cases that the Kid stabbed anyone.

[Jingthing]

Classic case of racist propaganda used by the Palestinian leaders to inspire even more brutal attacks on innocent unarmed Jews.

[Morch]

Amazing and also predictable.

Israel demonizers basically cheer-leading for Arab terrorists cold blooded murder of innocent Jews.

If it's war, fine, go for armed soldiers.

But knifing unarmed little Jewish boys just because they are JEWS in a place you don't like Jews to be (anywhere in ISRAEL) ... and trying to act like that is OK and justified and the terrorists don't deserve whatever they get ... sick sick sick sick sick.

The ugliness of the Israel demonization agenda gets clearer and clearer.

I really get the feeling many of them are getting major JOLLIES hearing about all these innocent Jews being murdered.

Would that be anything like the Israeli military using tanks, attack helicopters, ground attack fighters attacking the Palestinians in the Gaza strip, killing and injuring indiscriminately?

Has anyone got the latest score of Israeli civilians killed and wounded this year against the number of Palestinian civilians killed and wounded?

I do not think that it is exactly the same, no.

Specifically targeting innocents is one thing, while conducting warfare against terrorists using densely populated urban surrounding as cover is another. That said, obviously people, especially those on either receiving end, might see it differently. I cannot speak for others, but personally, I regret any civilian casualties. At the same time, I am not naive enough to imagine that it can be avoided under any conditions. Indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilians hurt during military operations are not always synonymous.

Before we slide into an off-topic debate regarding Gaza (probably too late for that....), the question is not so much about justification. Each side can cite its own litany of imagined and real woes inflicted upon him by the other. Which is more righteous hurting the other is a moronic personal choice. By now, everyone is well stocked with justification until kingdom come.

What I find more disturbing is the ease in which people far removed from events express extreme, sometimes morally questionable, positions. Then again, I had the same issues with the Thai News Forum "color wars". Bad enough the way people down there or locals here can't seem to handle differences. Sometimes find myself thinking "who are these people?!" and hope all that anger and hate over people they do not know and places they do not go remains online.

To ward off expected objections - the last bit is not directed at one "side" or another, enough who-are-these-people people to share around.

[Morch]

Quite frankly, there are only "hard" targets when your land has been stolen and is still occupied by a malevolent regime that slaughters your children and dreams up new humiliations on a seemingly daily basis.

I would offer the following to the occupiers:

Get used to it, because this is just the beginning.

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that posters are actually condoning a 13 year old kid stabbing another 13 year old kid, in the name of whatever cause.

An adult carrying out an attack on another, might be different case, more so if it involves armed personnel.

As for posters posturing and issuing warning - about as childish as gets.

To put things in perspective, posters may want to compare the current violence with previous instances (like the first and second Intifadas) - not really on par, and unless something dramatic happens,, not likely to achieve the same dimensions.

[Morch]

The Palis got to get over it. Israel is there to stay.

They can wield their little knives all they want but the jewish State isn't going anywhere.

Unless some missed it, the Palestinians aren't going anywhere as well Fantasies or conspiracy theories notwithstanding.

[Morch]

He who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind ...

In 60 years of existence israel made all its neighbors as enemies and gets the unanimous reprobation of the entire planet except the US.

And no, today no one is touched by the result of a decidedly belligerent attitude.

This applies to the country, but not for the innocent victims of this suicidal strategy, in both camps.

Israel got long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan), but don't let facts confuse you.

The other three neighbors (Lebanon, Syria, and the Palestinian) are internally divided to a degree that viable peace is not currently an option. Welcome to reality.

All of the one sided post above is, of course, without any reference to actions taken by Israel's neighbors. Revisionism at work.

How does one separate between the country and the people?

[happy Joe]

Israel got long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan), but don't let facts confuse you.

The other three neighbors (Lebanon, Syria, and the Palestinian) are internally divided to a degree that viable peace is not currently an option. Welcome to reality.

All of the one sided post above is, of course, without any reference to actions taken by Israel's neighbors. Revisionism at work.

How does one separate between the country and the people?

Israel friends...

[Pakboong]

Amazing and also predictable.

Israel demonizers basically cheer-leading for Arab terrorists cold blooded murder of innocent Jews.

If it's war, fine, go for armed soldiers.

But knifing unarmed little Jewish boys just because they are JEWS in a place you don't like Jews to be (anywhere in ISRAEL) ... and trying to act like that is OK and justified and the terrorists don't deserve whatever they get ... sick sick sick sick sick.

The ugliness of the Israel demonization agenda gets clearer and clearer.

I really get the feeling many of them are getting major JOLLIES hearing about all these innocent Jews being murdered.

Would that be anything like the Israeli military using tanks, attack helicopters, ground attack fighters attacking the Palestinians in the Gaza strip, killing and injuring indiscriminately?

Has anyone got the latest score of Israeli civilians killed and wounded this year against the number of Palestinian civilians killed and wounded?

I do not think that it is exactly the same, no.

Specifically targeting innocents is one thing, while conducting warfare against terrorists using densely populated urban surrounding as cover is another. That said, obviously people, especially those on either receiving end, might see it differently. I cannot speak for others, but personally, I regret any civilian casualties. At the same time, I am not naive enough to imagine that it can be avoided under any conditions. Indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilians hurt during military operations are not always synonymous.

Before we slide into an off-topic debate regarding Gaza (probably too late for that....), the question is not so much about justification. Each side can cite its own litany of imagined and real woes inflicted upon him by the other. Which is more righteous hurting the other is a moronic personal choice. By now, everyone is well stocked with justification until kingdom come.

What I find more disturbing is the ease in which people far removed from events express extreme, sometimes morally questionable, positions. Then again, I had the same issues with the Thai News Forum "color wars". Bad enough the way people down there or locals here can't seem to handle differences. Sometimes find myself thinking "who are these people?!" and hope all that anger and hate over people they do not know and places they do not go remains online.

To ward off expected objections - the last bit is not directed at one "side" or another, enough who-are-these-people people to share around.

I do see your point and unfortunately, I do not see it getting better any time soon. The damage has been done and there is so much anger and resentment on both sides it looks doomed. The Arab side is now looking to provoke as much as possible in hopes of getting world-wide sympathy and I doubt we will see any success in that particular regard.

[Pakboong]

Quite frankly, there are only "hard" targets when your land has been stolen and is still occupied by a malevolent regime that slaughters your children and dreams up new humiliations on a seemingly daily basis.

I would offer the following to the occupiers:

Get used to it, because this is just the beginning.

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that posters are actually condoning a 13 year old kid stabbing another 13 year old kid, in the name of whatever cause.

An adult carrying out an attack on another, might be different case, more so if it involves armed personnel.

As for posters posturing and issuing warning - about as childish as gets.

To put things in perspective, posters may want to compare the current violence with previous instances (like the first and second Intifadas) - not really on par, and unless something dramatic happens,, not likely to achieve the same dimensions.

I suspect there were plenty younger teenager stabbings in Chicago this week. Business as usual.Nobody cares.

[Pakboong]

The one outcome that looks promising is we are pretty sure the knives being used were not likely supplied by Iran to promote a proxy war. I suspect if they were involved or plan to get involved, much more lethal weaponry would be smuggled into Gaza.

Of course, that begs the question: where are the weapons they smuggled in last month?

Edited October 16, 2015 by Pakboong

[Morch]

Israel got long standing peace agreements with two of its neighbors (Egypt, Jordan), but don't let facts confuse you.

The other three neighbors (Lebanon, Syria, and the Palestinian) are internally divided to a degree that viable peace is not currently an option. Welcome to reality.

All of the one sided post above is, of course, without any reference to actions taken by Israel's neighbors. Revisionism at work.

How does one separate between the country and the people?

Israel friends...

Was there a relevant point to this, other than demonstrating the ability to link images?

[dexterm]

It is interesting that Netanyahu always reaches for the over reaction button first. Then when it all goes pear shaped, he looks for scapegoats. He did it last year when the 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. He's doing it again now. Gotta have a straw man to blame..anyone but himself.

When it comes to peace talks, Israeli apologists claim Abbas is not a worthy negotiating partner because few Palestinians listen to him. But when you need him to calm things down, suddenly it's all his fault.

[Morch]

Quite frankly, there are only "hard" targets when your land has been stolen and is still occupied by a malevolent regime that slaughters your children and dreams up new humiliations on a seemingly daily basis.

I would offer the following to the occupiers:

Get used to it, because this is just the beginning.

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that posters are actually condoning a 13 year old kid stabbing another 13 year old kid, in the name of whatever cause.

An adult carrying out an attack on another, might be different case, more so if it involves armed personnel.

As for posters posturing and issuing warning - about as childish as gets.

To put things in perspective, posters may want to compare the current violence with previous instances (like the first and second Intifadas) - not really on par, and unless something dramatic happens,, not likely to achieve the same dimensions.

I suspect there were plenty younger teenager stabbings in Chicago this week. Business as usual.Nobody cares.

That thin line between not caring and condoning. Not to say celebrating.

[Clutch]

Pure Thuggery.

[Morch]

The one outcome that looks promising is we are pretty sure the knives being used were not likely supplied by Iran to promote a proxy war. I suspect if they were involved or plan to get involved, much more lethal weaponry would be smuggled into Gaza.

Of course, that begs the question: where are the weapons they smuggled in last month?

The relationship between Hamas and Iran (or indeed, between Hamas and pretty much any Arab country) know ups and downs, following shifts in circumstances and regional interests. To compound it further, the Hamas itself is not always of one opinion as to which sponsor of choice it ought to pay homage to. There was a recent period of time in which Iran became the main source of support (military and otherwise), but apparently things have cooled off again (at least some).

From various statements, looks like Hamas is very supportive of the current violence, as long as it does not escalate into a full blown conflict. One reason is that Hamas is still licking the wounds from the last round of fighting, and is not in a particularly good shape for more of the same, Another consideration is that going all out against Israel again, will result in inevitable havoc - one which might strain local support. On the other hand, encouraging the more basic form of violence in evidence, plays to its benefit - fostering increased political support, while undermining the Fatah's position.

Just a matter of timing and calculation.

[Rancid]

Discussing Israel is a waste of time, no matter how many Palestinians they kill or how many US M-E wars they seem to have a hand in the cheer squad pops up and defends.

Sort of like politics and religion I suppose, all sides are permanently entrenched with tunnel vision.

[Morch]

It is interesting that Netanyahu always reaches for the over reaction button first. Then when it all goes pear shaped, he looks for scapegoats. He did it last year when the 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. He's doing it again now. Gotta have a straw man to blame..anyone but himself.

When it comes to peace talks, Israeli apologists claim Abbas is not a worthy negotiating partner because few Palestinians listen to him. But when you need him to calm things down, suddenly it's all his fault.

No one suspects Netanyahu of being an especially wise leader. Not even Israelis. Not even all right wing voters.

Nor does his tendency to lay the blame at others any news.

That said, the usual make believe statements, as if there is no concrete reality out there, and in which some things need to be dealt with harshly, is simply simple. Ignoring any Palestinian accountability for escalation in violence is very convenient, but does not conform to facts.

Netanyahu's undermining of Abbas's position notwithstanding, Abbas is just not a charismatic and popular leader. Never was. Solely blaming Israel for his low approval rating exposes the ignorance to the of resentment the PA elicits among Palestinians, even without Israeli connection.

Seeing things as either/or is misleading. Abbas is relatively moderate, yes. Abbas called for calm, yes. Abbas contributed to incitement, yes.

Life isn't black and white. Politics are never. Why is it so hard for some to accept that certain contradictions can co-exit?

[Morch]

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect1444978227.033063.jpg

Pure Thuggery.

You wouldn't bother to actually post the context in which the picture was taken, right?

About the same as showing an injured Palestinian kid, without filling in that this was taken after he stabbed an Israeli kid (appearing on a parallel topic).

[dexterm]

It is interesting that Netanyahu always reaches for the over reaction button first. Then when it all goes pear shaped, he looks for scapegoats. He did it last year when the 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. He's doing it again now. Gotta have a straw man to blame..anyone but himself.

When it comes to peace talks, Israeli apologists claim Abbas is not a worthy negotiating partner because few Palestinians listen to him. But when you need him to calm things down, suddenly it's all his fault.

No one suspects Netanyahu of being an especially wise leader. Not even Israelis. Not even all right wing voters.

Nor does his tendency to lay the blame at others any news.

That said, the usual make believe statements, as if there is no concrete reality out there, and in which some things need to be dealt with harshly, is simply simple. Ignoring any Palestinian accountability for escalation in violence is very convenient, but does not conform to facts.

Netanyahu's undermining of Abbas's position notwithstanding, Abbas is just not a charismatic and popular leader. Never was. Solely blaming Israel for his low approval rating exposes the ignorance to the of resentment the PA elicits among Palestinians, even without Israeli connection.

Seeing things as either/or is misleading. Abbas is relatively moderate, yes. Abbas called for calm, yes. Abbas contributed to incitement, yes.

Life isn't black and white. Politics are never. Why is it so hard for some to accept that certain contradictions can co-exit?

I disagree totally with your fence sitting stance...some things are black and white. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of 4.5 million Palestinians as a result of the racist supremacist doctrine Zionism is plain wrong. Might is not right.

The "concrete reality out there" is 48 years of discrimination, humiliation, beatings and murders on a daily basis by an israeli army of occupation. Is it any wonder that Palestinians will do anything to free themselves from repression, when the world sits idly by and does nothing. I don't blame them.

And if Israel escalates the situation further, there could be global repercussions, and the US, EU and Israel will say "Wadda we do to deserve this?"

Always the way in history...reaction rather than pro action.

Edited October 16, 2015 by dexterm

[Morch]

It is interesting that Netanyahu always reaches for the over reaction button first. Then when it all goes pear shaped, he looks for scapegoats. He did it last year when the 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. He's doing it again now. Gotta have a straw man to blame..anyone but himself.

When it comes to peace talks, Israeli apologists claim Abbas is not a worthy negotiating partner because few Palestinians listen to him. But when you need him to calm things down, suddenly it's all his fault.

No one suspects Netanyahu of being an especially wise leader. Not even Israelis. Not even all right wing voters.

Nor does his tendency to lay the blame at others any news.

That said, the usual make believe statements, as if there is no concrete reality out there, and in which some things need to be dealt with harshly, is simply simple. Ignoring any Palestinian accountability for escalation in violence is very convenient, but does not conform to facts.

Netanyahu's undermining of Abbas's position notwithstanding, Abbas is just not a charismatic and popular leader. Never was. Solely blaming Israel for his low approval rating exposes the ignorance to the of resentment the PA elicits among Palestinians, even without Israeli connection.

Seeing things as either/or is misleading. Abbas is relatively moderate, yes. Abbas called for calm, yes. Abbas contributed to incitement, yes.

Life isn't black and white. Politics are never. Why is it so hard for some to accept that certain contradictions can co-exit?

I disagree totally with your fence sitting stance...some things are black and white. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of 4.5 million Palestinians as a result of the racist supremacist doctrine Zionism is plain wrong. Might is not right.

The "concrete reality out there" is 48 years of discrimination, humiliation, beatings and murders on a daily basis by an israeli army of occupation. Is it any wonder that Palestinians will do anything to free themselves from repression, when the world sits idly by and does nothing. I don't blame them.

And if Israel escalates the situation further, there could be global repercussions, and the US, EU and Israel will say "Wadda we do to deserve this?"

Always the way in history...reaction rather than pro action.

Your continues attempts to tag acknowledgment of the complex nature of reality as "fence sitting", and the usual holier-than-thou dramatic presentation are dully noted.

Most times, however, life is not black and white, especially when one is less removed from events. I find that people seeing everything as black and white often fail to grasp nuances of reality. In the same way they are usually not focused on solving things, but rather on winning.

The black and white way of seeing things means one needs to deny, ignore of justify any "wrong" instances pertaining to the side of choice. Hard to consider this approach as realistic, informed or possessing great moral merit.

As for escalation, action and re-action, it wouldn't really matter from the black and white point of view - whatever the opposing side does is inherently wrong. If one holds this point of view, then it is always the opposing side that escalates, hence making the response a justified reaction.

The insistence that this conflict could be compartmentalized into neat little tagged boxes, that a simple solution is within easy reach - these are all slogans. And far from having any informative value, they actually represent a detrimental effect on chances for any solution, as they cement misguided perceptions.

[Seastallion]

It is interesting that Netanyahu always reaches for the over reaction button first. Then when it all goes pear shaped, he looks for scapegoats. He did it last year when the 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped. He's doing it again now. Gotta have a straw man to blame..anyone but himself.

When it comes to peace talks, Israeli apologists claim Abbas is not a worthy negotiating partner because few Palestinians listen to him. But when you need him to calm things down, suddenly it's all his fault.

No one suspects Netanyahu of being an especially wise leader. Not even Israelis. Not even all right wing voters.

Nor does his tendency to lay the blame at others any news.

That said, the usual make believe statements, as if there is no concrete reality out there, and in which some things need to be dealt with harshly, is simply simple. Ignoring any Palestinian accountability for escalation in violence is very convenient, but does not conform to facts.

Netanyahu's undermining of Abbas's position notwithstanding, Abbas is just not a charismatic and popular leader. Never was. Solely blaming Israel for his low approval rating exposes the ignorance to the of resentment the PA elicits among Palestinians, even without Israeli connection.

Seeing things as either/or is misleading. Abbas is relatively moderate, yes. Abbas called for calm, yes. Abbas contributed to incitement, yes.

Life isn't black and white. Politics are never. Why is it so hard for some to accept that certain contradictions can co-exit?

I disagree totally with your fence sitting stance...some things are black and white. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of 4.5 million Palestinians as a result of the racist supremacist doctrine Zionism is plain wrong. Might is not right.

The "concrete reality out there" is 48 years of discrimination, humiliation, beatings and murders on a daily basis by an israeli army of occupation. Is it any wonder that Palestinians will do anything to free themselves from repression, when the world sits idly by and does nothing. I don't blame them.

And if Israel escalates the situation further, there could be global repercussions, and the US, EU and Israel will say "Wadda we do to deserve this?"

Always the way in history...reaction rather than pro action.

Your continues attempts to tag acknowledgment of the complex nature of reality as "fence sitting", and the usual holier-than-thou dramatic presentation are dully noted.

Most times, however, life is not black and white, especially when one is less removed from events. I find that people seeing everything as black and white often fail to grasp nuances of reality. In the same way they are usually not focused on solving things, but rather on winning.

The black and white way of seeing things means one needs to deny, ignore of justify any "wrong" instances pertaining to the side of choice. Hard to consider this approach as realistic, informed or possessing great moral merit.

As for escalation, action and re-action, it wouldn't really matter from the black and white point of view - whatever the opposing side does is inherently wrong. If one holds this point of view, then it is always the opposing side that escalates, hence making the response a justified reaction.

The insistence that this conflict could be compartmentalized into neat little tagged boxes, that a simple solution is within easy reach - these are all slogans. And far from having any informative value, they actually represent a detrimental effect on chances for any solution, as they cement misguided perceptions.

You can't dilute the actual black and white scenarios, though, by lumping them in with the complexities. There is still very definite black and white, and much of that black and white is highly significant to the overall situation and should be addressed aside from the side-complexities.

Continued expansion with settlements is indeed a black and white issue, and a core one at that.

Apartheid is a black and white issue, and a core one (Palestinians in the West Bank face military law, while Israeli citizens in the same street face civil Israeli law that is meted out differently...apartheid).

[Morch]

No one suspects Netanyahu of being an especially wise leader. Not even Israelis. Not even all right wing voters.

Nor does his tendency to lay the blame at others any news.

That said, the usual make believe statements, as if there is no concrete reality out there, and in which some things need to be dealt with harshly, is simply simple. Ignoring any Palestinian accountability for escalation in violence is very convenient, but does not conform to facts.

Netanyahu's undermining of Abbas's position notwithstanding, Abbas is just not a charismatic and popular leader. Never was. Solely blaming Israel for his low approval rating exposes the ignorance to the of resentment the PA elicits among Palestinians, even without Israeli connection.

Seeing things as either/or is misleading. Abbas is relatively moderate, yes. Abbas called for calm, yes. Abbas contributed to incitement, yes.

Life isn't black and white. Politics are never. Why is it so hard for some to accept that certain contradictions can co-exit?

I disagree totally with your fence sitting stance...some things are black and white. The occupation and ethnic cleansing of 4.5 million Palestinians as a result of the racist supremacist doctrine Zionism is plain wrong. Might is not right.

The "concrete reality out there" is 48 years of discrimination, humiliation, beatings and murders on a daily basis by an israeli army of occupation. Is it any wonder that Palestinians will do anything to free themselves from repression, when the world sits idly by and does nothing. I don't blame them.

And if Israel escalates the situation further, there could be global repercussions, and the US, EU and Israel will say "Wadda we do to deserve this?"

Always the way in history...reaction rather than pro action.

Your continues attempts to tag acknowledgment of the complex nature of reality as "fence sitting", and the usual holier-than-thou dramatic presentation are dully noted.

Most times, however, life is not black and white, especially when one is less removed from events. I find that people seeing everything as black and white often fail to grasp nuances of reality. In the same way they are usually not focused on solving things, but rather on winning.

The black and white way of seeing things means one needs to deny, ignore of justify any "wrong" instances pertaining to the side of choice. Hard to consider this approach as realistic, informed or possessing great moral merit.

As for escalation, action and re-action, it wouldn't really matter from the black and white point of view - whatever the opposing side does is inherently wrong. If one holds this point of view, then it is always the opposing side that escalates, hence making the response a justified reaction.

The insistence that this conflict could be compartmentalized into neat little tagged boxes, that a simple solution is within easy reach - these are all slogans. And far from having any informative value, they actually represent a detrimental effect on chances for any solution, as they cement misguided perceptions.

You can't dilute the actual black and white scenarios, though, by lumping them in with the complexities. There is still very definite black and white, and much of that black and white is highly significant to the overall situation and should be addressed aside from the side-complexities.

Continued expansion with settlements is indeed a black and white issue, and a core one at that.

Apartheid is a black and white issue, and a core one (Palestinians in the West Bank face military law, while Israeli citizens in the same street face civil Israeli law that is meted out differently...apartheid).

No diluting. Saying that things are not simply black and white is not a rejection of either color. It means that there are some instances where this is applicable and many others in which it is not. Some posters feel that it should apply to everything to do with the conflict, and some do not. Also, recognizing that something is clearly wrong, does not always mean that there is a simple remedy, or one that will not cause further trouble. For example, my own views, as often expressed here are quite clear regarding the illegal settlements (the "illegal" might be a giveaway...). The not-black-and-white part would have to do with addressing the problem.

Another common issue is the appliance of this black-white thinking to the conflict in its entirety, with the next step being a declaration of every specific instance to fall under the same black-white dichotomy (by virtue of it being part of the conflict). Another example, claiming Israel practices apartheid in the West Bank, and from there moving on to Israel being an apartheid state (or vice versa, sometimes posters get confused). While the former claim could be argued, the latter is nonsense.

But the main thing is this - successful conflict resolution is not about winning. Focusing on black-white thinking leaves relatively little room for negotiators to maneuver, and does not lend itself to compromise. It undermines both.the motivation to negotiate and compromise, and shortens the life-span of agreements reached. Who wants to sign a deal with the Devil? Who wants to sign a deal with someone insisting him to be the Devil?

If the related "discussions" on TVF are any indication as to what can be achieved by embracing black-white thinking, then there is little hope for this conflict to reach a viable resolution.