Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better: Democrat

[oneday]

THE Prayut government must clearly explain the alleged wrongdoing of officials in connection with the rice-pledging scheme or it will fall victim to the lawyers of ex-PM Yingluck Shinawatra,

Oh, I beg to differ. A military government that came to power illegally makes its own rules. It doesn't have to worry about anything they do, because by definition anything they do is legal...they write the laws.

[jayboy]

Not making anything up, your blind for not understanding anything about accounting, budgets and rules for them. By not putting cost in the national budget she broke the law. Just one of the many things that can be used against her.

They have an court case against here based on this already and now a more civil case for the damages. All legal. Guess you missed the news.

He's not blind Rob, he just supports the notion that as the Shins were "elected" they could do anything they wanted. Off budget self financing scheme or handing power to a non elected criminal who just happens to pay them a salary etc etc.etc.

He then defends that in anyway he can. He conveniently forgets about the World Bank Report that shows a tiny % of the money actually went to any farmers, that the poorest farmers were excluded, that Yingluck, the self appointed chair of the scheme (was she paid for this role?) never bothered attending any meetings, or really investigating any of the claims about mismanagement or fraud, or doing anything other than lie, and the current case against members of her government and a number of firms who are charged with fraud concerning fake export deals.

But hey, she's Thaksin's kid sister, and the Shin family proxy parties win all the "elections" this century. That means they can do as they please, and what they please must work well for them. Forbes reported the family fortune grew by a staggering 450% during the PTP time in government. Amazing they can work such wonders on the family fortune, (AmplyRich might need to be Very Amply Rich!) whilst seemingly loosing billions and billions of tax payers money for which they can't or won't even provide accounts. All a witch hunt of the poor (no pun intended) innocent democracy loving Shins, and Thailand's true savior Thaksin the Innocent.

Can you reference the Forbes estimate? All the evidence I have seen ( public statements of assets) indicates Yingluck's wealth increased by slightly less than the rise in the stock exchange index - which given the bull market period under scrutiny would yield a considerable amount of increased wealth given her initial position but not out of line or in any way surprising.Indeed not even her enemies have raised this as an "issue".

It is of course far more remarkable how lowly paid generals can accumulate a massive fortune but of course they are "good' people so any question of scrutiny by NACC doesn't arise.

[Alwyn]

Should be Parliamentary Immunity as in all developed nations unless there is corruption or illegal acts (of which there are NONE in this case - if there are then charge them).

Wrong, its illegal not to include something in a budget calling it cost neutral when all indications are telling otherwise and then bullying officials (who administered the project) who also tell its costing money.

This would be fraud and go against all accounting principles (taking costs when they are foreseeable). Its called fraud and negligence and quite a few in the west have also been removed from office and some convicted for stuff like this.

The moment it is shown that something is going to cost money it has to be included in the national budget and cannot be ignored like this.

They did not want that because then they had to scrap other vote buying policies because they were at a max deficit at the time already.

There aren't many here that talk as much b*llox as you do are there. If your expert opinion is correct, then charge her with fraud. If not, leave be and stop with the harassment. Simple.

[Alwyn]

Not making anything up, your blind for not understanding anything about accounting, budgets and rules for them. By not putting cost in the national budget she broke the law. Just one of the many things that can be used against her.

They have an court case against here based on this already and now a more civil case for the damages. All legal. Guess you missed the news.

He's not blind Rob, he just supports the notion that as the Shins were "elected" they could do anything they wanted. Off budget self financing scheme or handing power to a non elected criminal who just happens to pay them a salary etc etc.etc.

He then defends that in anyway he can. He conveniently forgets about the World Bank Report that shows a tiny % of the money actually went to any farmers, that the poorest farmers were excluded, that Yingluck, the self appointed chair of the scheme (was she paid for this role?) never bothered attending any meetings, or really investigating any of the claims about mismanagement or fraud, or doing anything other than lie, and the current case against members of her government and a number of firms who are charged with fraud concerning fake export deals.

But hey, she's Thaksin's kid sister, and the Shin family proxy parties win all the "elections" this century. That means they can do as they please, and what they please must work well for them. Forbes reported the family fortune grew by a staggering 450% during the PTP time in government. Amazing they can work such wonders on the family fortune, (AmplyRich might need to be Very Amply Rich!) whilst seemingly loosing billions and billions of tax payers money for which they can't or won't even provide accounts. All a witch hunt of the poor (no pun intended) innocent democracy loving Shins, and Thailand's true savior Thaksin the Innocent.

Can you reference the Forbes estimate? All the evidence I have seen ( public statements of assets) indicates Yingluck's wealth increased by slightly less than the rise in the stock exchange index - which given the bull market period under scrutiny would yield a considerable amount of increased wealth given her initial position but not out of line or in any way surprising.Indeed not even her enemies have raised this as an "issue".

It is of course far more remarkable how lowly paid generals can accumulate a massive fortune but of course they are "good' people so any question of scrutiny by NACC doesn't arise.

Jay, these two are quite the double-act aren't they! They accuse an elected PM of thinking he can do as he wants yet they support an unelected PM who is blatantly doing what he wants. Scrapping constitutions, changing laws so he cannot be penalized in the future, banning elections, banning freedom of speech, bullying and harassing any he thinks may pose any kind of threat to his fiefdom, nep[otism of the worst kind, installing his army buddies into parliamentary positions.. Yet for these two, it's okay. The fact that the self-appointed PM is insisting everybody declares their worth and refuses to do so himself doesn't bother them in the least.. You cannot communicate with people like these two.

[h90]

Should be Parliamentary Immunity as in all developed nations unless there is corruption or illegal acts (of which there are NONE in this case - if there are then charge them).

Wrong, its illegal not to include something in a budget calling it cost neutral when all indications are telling otherwise and then bullying officials (who administered the project) who also tell its costing money.

This would be fraud and go against all accounting principles (taking costs when they are foreseeable). Its called fraud and negligence and quite a few in the west have also been removed from office and some convicted for stuff like this.

The moment it is shown that something is going to cost money it has to be included in the national budget and cannot be ignored like this.

They did not want that because then they had to scrap other vote buying policies because they were at a max deficit at the time already.

Actually there are a lot cases in the west that reminds me to Thailand. Complete fraud and the responsible politician manage to sit it out. Having judges with party membership, etc etc.

The west certainly is not perfect. Just look at Berlusconi. But I have seen ministers having to go over scandals. Can you imagine putting a budget at 0 and then having 500 billion baht costs That would not go down well anywhere.

Austria had some scandals, with real shady people that are on the level with Thailand. Several military purchases including Eurofighter and several banks scandals. Including having one person who covered up things getting president of the national bank as reward. And the judge got justice minister. The finance minister who signed a deal that caused a huge damage to the country, but covered the problems of a big bank.....before it played out he got terrible sick.....a month later he had a wonder recovery and a high paid job at this bank.

that is full PTP level, just in Austria all parties have their share so there is more peace.

[mikemac]

This topic is fizzing out now. It has deteriorated to the point where the Shin fans have no defense left other than to rave on about the Generals accumulating massive fortunes and all the bad things the Junta have done since they took over.

[chainarong]

Should be Parliamentary Immunity as in all developed nations unless there is corruption or illegal acts (of which there are NONE in this case - if there are then charge them).

This case is about Absolute corruption....... PTPs rice pledging scheme was from the outset only there for one reason, to line the pockets of Thaksins supporters. He (through his puppet) gave his band of merry men open season to rape this countries coffers. There never has been and never will be another programme such as this which allowed Thaksinites to rape and plunder Thailand... My heart bleeds for the taxpayers who's hard earned cash was looted by Thaksins thieves.

And the poor farmers.... they received less than 10% of the total of the scammed and syphoned moneys... Not only should Yinluck forfeit her assets, but she should be sent to prison for a Very long time.... How the mighty fall, comes to mind... I hope I live to see Thaksin dragged back to Thailand to pay for his crimes....

Everyone knows it was corruption my plan is to bring out the whole corruption shebang by having a government enquiry , however that will never happen , I will explain why, the heads of departments are Generals and who is running the country , you talk about corruption work that out , I rest my case.case

[sead]

Interesting to see how this stupid rule can backfire in case they dont have good evidence. Understanding thailaw the little i do. i actually think they didnt think about it when they made this act. If yingluck wins this case she is slowly going to overrule all other cases with this case as her cornerstone

[Balance]

Who is going to file charges against the hundreds, if not thousands, of additional public officials who allowed or did not stop corruption on their watch? If charges are not filed and compensation extracted, then this case against Lingluck is a good example of the corruption of the legal system that targets people not because of what they allegedly did, but because of who they are or what they represent.

[jayboy]

This topic is fizzing out now. It has deteriorated to the point where the Shin fans have no defense left other than to rave on about the Generals accumulating massive fortunes and all the bad things the Junta have done since they took over.

Er not really.Your position on the increase in Yingluck's wealth was eviscerated.Contrary to your statement Yingluck's wealth increased almost exactly in line with the increase in stock exchange indices.

The reference to senior generals astonishing and unexplained wealth is hardly surprising in any discussion of this sort.

[Hawk]

but the then PM failed to stop the corruption."

Well our new PM has also failed to stop the corruption!

[rubl]

As all here should know democracy in Thailand died

on the day Ms. Yingluck was asked to show the responsibility and accountability she so frequently mentioned as PM, aspects of utmost importance with special care of corruption and a bit of transparency thrown in for good measure.

I disagree with the Democrat Party spokesman. The government has nothing to explain or say. The case has been turned over to the Supreme Court and only they handle the case.

[tbthailand]

Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better

no they don't. They just need to line up the right judges - and that is pretty straight forward.

It's a purge, and she's going down... just a question of time.

[tbthailand]

Not making anything up, your blind for not understanding anything about accounting, budgets and rules for them. By not putting cost in the national budget she broke the law. Just one of the many things that can be used against her.

They have an court case against here based on this already and now a more civil case for the damages. All legal. Guess you missed the news.

He's not blind Rob, he just supports the notion that as the Shins were "elected" they could do anything they wanted. Off budget self financing scheme or handing power to a non elected criminal who just happens to pay them a salary etc etc.etc.

He then defends that in anyway he can. He conveniently forgets about the World Bank Report that shows a tiny % of the money actually went to any farmers, that the poorest farmers were excluded, that Yingluck, the self appointed chair of the scheme (was she paid for this role?) never bothered attending any meetings, or really investigating any of the claims about mismanagement or fraud, or doing anything other than lie, and the current case against members of her government and a number of firms who are charged with fraud concerning fake export deals.

But hey, she's Thaksin's kid sister, and the Shin family proxy parties win all the "elections" this century. That means they can do as they please, and what they please must work well for them. Forbes reported the family fortune grew by a staggering 450% during the PTP time in government. Amazing they can work such wonders on the family fortune, (AmplyRich might need to be Very Amply Rich!) whilst seemingly loosing billions and billions of tax payers money for which they can't or won't even provide accounts. All a witch hunt of the poor (no pun intended) innocent democracy loving Shins, and Thailand's true savior Thaksin the Innocent.

Can you reference the Forbes estimate? All the evidence I have seen ( public statements of assets) indicates Yingluck's wealth increased by slightly less than the rise in the stock exchange index - which given the bull market period under scrutiny would yield a considerable amount of increased wealth given her initial position but not out of line or in any way surprising.Indeed not even her enemies have raised this as an "issue".

It is of course far more remarkable how lowly paid generals can accumulate a massive fortune but of course they are "good' people so any question of scrutiny by NACC doesn't arise.

actually, the NACC has done a dog & pony show of an investigation for Prayuth's brother... They "investigated" his declaration, and in spite of multiple holes in the declaration, he was found to be squeaky clean and the NACC held him up as a "role-model"...

Holy cow, they think that no one notices??

[kimamey]

Should be Parliamentary Immunity as in all developed nations unless there is corruption or illegal acts (of which there are NONE in this case - if there are then charge them).

You contradict yourself by saying there is no corruption or illegal acts then saying if there are then charge them.

Not all developed nations are the same and many of the things that are done here by both sides wouldn't be tolerated in many countries but it doesn't stop them doing it. As I understand it the issue here is not so much the rice scheme but the fact that nothing was done to stop the corruption. There will always be some problems with things like this but when investigations took place it was stated there were no such problems or corruption. The Democrats tried to bring it up in parliament but were accused of theft instead.

If we are to believe what we're told now there were big issues. Yingluck may have been lied to about them but somebody must have known.

[mikemac]

This topic is fizzing out now. It has deteriorated to the point where the Shin fans have no defense left other than to rave on about the Generals accumulating massive fortunes and all the bad things the Junta have done since they took over.

Er not really.Your position on the increase in Yingluck's wealth was eviscerated.Contrary to your statement Yingluck's wealth increased almost exactly in line with the increase in stock exchange indices.

The reference to senior generals astonishing and unexplained wealth is hardly surprising in any discussion of this sort.

...................."Your position on the increase in Yingluck's wealth was eviscerated.Contrary to your statement Yingluck's wealth increased almost exactly in line with the increase in stock exchange indices."........................

Sorry jb, but you seem to be arguing with yourself, as usual. I have not said anything about Yingluck's wealth, in fact I don't think I have ever mentioned it on any topic.

(her wealth, and whether it grew or not, is just a distraction from the real topic at hand)

Her wealth has nothing to do with the fact she is being charged with negligence over her handling of the rice scam. Some might say she actually did a good job of it, lots of money was "lost", the people who needed it the least made lots of money and the people who needed it the most, the poor farmers, made nothing out of it.

In fact a lot of farmers suffered after the dust died down when they received less money for their crop.

Oh, and let's not forget the farmers who took their own lives because they were ripped off by the PTP.

These things relate to what is in the heading of this topic - "Yingluck's wrongdoing".

......................."The reference to senior generals astonishing and unexplained wealth is hardly surprising in any discussion of this sort."......................

[mikemac]

Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better

no they don't. They just need to line up the right judges - and that is pretty straight forward.

It's a purge, and she's going down... just a question of time.

I am not a big fan of purges, but in this case it is for the country's good to get rid of this puppet who represents a family who uses Thailand as one of their family owned companies and robs it blind under the false flag of Democracy.

And this is all to do with the OP, as in - "Yingluck's wrongdoing".

[robblok]

Just to put it in perspective how much YL overspend on the rice program without putting it in the books.. estimates go to 700 billion divided by 4 years is 175 billion baht. That is almost the same as the whole budget for healthcare in a year.

I mean we are not talking about a little overspending this is dereliction of duty / negligence.

All over the world the rules are simple when its obvious that cost are higher as the budget either the budget has to be revised or the spending stopped. No where in the world did it say bully the whistle blower and threaten them with court cases and go on as if nothing is happening.

Blowing off the books an amount almost equal to the whole health budget...... while saying it is not costing any money. If that is not negligence . dereliction of duty or worse then I don't know.

[jayboy]

Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better

no they don't. They just need to line up the right judges - and that is pretty straight forward.

It's a purge, and she's going down... just a question of time.

I am not a big fan of purges, but in this case it is for the country's good to get rid of this puppet who represents a family who uses Thailand as one of their family owned companies and robs it blind under the false flag of Democracy.

And this is all to do with the OP, as in - "Yingluck's wrongdoing".

I thought she had been got rid of.As to negligence and corruption in the rice scheme this certainly needs to be investigated along with other scandals such as military procurement.I have pointed out that the objectives of the rice scheme and its "populist" nature are completely legitimate given that the government of the time - unlike this one - was democratically legitimate.

Incidentally when defenders of the Junta start invoking farmers suicides as an argument they by definition have lost it.It's not unusual.Half the silly Chinese housewives in Bangkok trot this one out as though it was a serious point.

[mikemac]

Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better

no they don't. They just need to line up the right judges - and that is pretty straight forward.

It's a purge, and she's going down... just a question of time.

I am not a big fan of purges, but in this case it is for the country's good to get rid of this puppet who represents a family who uses Thailand as one of their family owned companies and robs it blind under the false flag of Democracy.

And this is all to do with the OP, as in - "Yingluck's wrongdoing".

I thought she had been got rid of.As to negligence and corruption in the rice scheme this certainly needs to be investigated along with other scandals such as military procurement.I have pointed out that the objectives of the rice scheme and its "populist" nature are completely legitimate given that the government of the time - unlike this one - was democratically legitimate.

Incidentally when defenders of the Junta start invoking farmers suicides as an argument they by definition have lost it.It's not unusual.Half the silly Chinese housewives in Bangkok trot this one out as though it was a serious point.

......................"as though it was a serious point"...................

So solly ! But I thought suicide was a serious point !

[billd766]

Not making anything up, your blind for not understanding anything about accounting, budgets and rules for them. By not putting cost in the national budget she broke the law. Just one of the many things that can be used against her.

They have an court case against here based on this already and now a more civil case for the damages. All legal. Guess you missed the news.

He's not blind Rob, he just supports the notion that as the Shins were "elected" they could do anything they wanted. Off budget self financing scheme or handing power to a non elected criminal who just happens to pay them a salary etc etc.etc.

He then defends that in anyway he can. He conveniently forgets about the World Bank Report that shows a tiny % of the money actually went to any farmers, that the poorest farmers were excluded, that Yingluck, the self appointed chair of the scheme (was she paid for this role?) never bothered attending any meetings, or really investigating any of the claims about mismanagement or fraud, or doing anything other than lie, and the current case against members of her government and a number of firms who are charged with fraud concerning fake export deals.

But hey, she's Thaksin's kid sister, and the Shin family proxy parties win all the "elections" this century. That means they can do as they please, and what they please must work well for them. Forbes reported the family fortune grew by a staggering 450% during the PTP time in government. Amazing they can work such wonders on the family fortune, (AmplyRich might need to be Very Amply Rich!) whilst seemingly loosing billions and billions of tax payers money for which they can't or won't even provide accounts. All a witch hunt of the poor (no pun intended) innocent democracy loving Shins, and Thailand's true savior Thaksin the Innocent.

Can you reference the Forbes estimate? All the evidence I have seen ( public statements of assets) indicates Yingluck's wealth increased by slightly less than the rise in the stock exchange index - which given the bull market period under scrutiny would yield a considerable amount of increased wealth given her initial position but not out of line or in any way surprising.Indeed not even her enemies have raised this as an "issue".

It is of course far more remarkable how lowly paid generals can accumulate a massive fortune but of course they are "good' people so any question of scrutiny by NACC doesn't arise.

Try looking here and at paragraph #3.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timferguson/2012/10/29/thaksin-in-exile-advising-sister-digging-for-gold/

[SamuiLoner]

We all have an opinion or point of view, but there's a good old saying about "When in Rome". And if you are in proverbial "Rome", make damn sure you're not a Christian. As being fed to the Lions is not a healthy result.

[tbthailand]

Govt needs to explain Yingluck's wrongdoing better

no they don't. They just need to line up the right judges - and that is pretty straight forward.

It's a purge, and she's going down... just a question of time.

I am not a big fan of purges, but in this case it is for the country's good to get rid of this puppet who represents a family who uses Thailand as one of their family owned companies and robs it blind under the false flag of Democracy.

And this is all to do with the OP, as in - "Yingluck's wrongdoing".

...

fine, and what about the other families who are in charge of the purge... Are they not:

family who uses Thailand as one of their family owned companies and robs it blind

??

of course, they don't have any pretences about democracy... shame, that part...

[rubl]

Not making anything up, your blind for not understanding anything about accounting, budgets and rules for them. By not putting cost in the national budget she broke the law. Just one of the many things that can be used against her.

They have an court case against here based on this already and now a more civil case for the damages. All legal. Guess you missed the news.

He's not blind Rob, he just supports the notion that as the Shins were "elected" they could do anything they wanted. Off budget self financing scheme or handing power to a non elected criminal who just happens to pay them a salary etc etc.etc.

He then defends that in anyway he can. He conveniently forgets about the World Bank Report that shows a tiny % of the money actually went to any farmers, that the poorest farmers were excluded, that Yingluck, the self appointed chair of the scheme (was she paid for this role?) never bothered attending any meetings, or really investigating any of the claims about mismanagement or fraud, or doing anything other than lie, and the current case against members of her government and a number of firms who are charged with fraud concerning fake export deals.

But hey, she's Thaksin's kid sister, and the Shin family proxy parties win all the "elections" this century. That means they can do as they please, and what they please must work well for them. Forbes reported the family fortune grew by a staggering 450% during the PTP time in government. Amazing they can work such wonders on the family fortune, (AmplyRich might need to be Very Amply Rich!) whilst seemingly loosing billions and billions of tax payers money for which they can't or won't even provide accounts. All a witch hunt of the poor (no pun intended) innocent democracy loving Shins, and Thailand's true savior Thaksin the Innocent.

Can you reference the Forbes estimate? All the evidence I have seen ( public statements of assets) indicates Yingluck's wealth increased by slightly less than the rise in the stock exchange index - which given the bull market period under scrutiny would yield a considerable amount of increased wealth given her initial position but not out of line or in any way surprising.Indeed not even her enemies have raised this as an "issue".

It is of course far more remarkable how lowly paid generals can accumulate a massive fortune but of course they are "good' people so any question of scrutiny by NACC doesn't arise.

actually, the NACC has done a dog & pony show of an investigation for Prayuth's brother... They "investigated" his declaration, and in spite of multiple holes in the declaration, he was found to be squeaky clean and the NACC held him up as a "role-model"...

Holy cow, they think that no one notices??

Absolutely. I thnik heybruce posted a link to some German website a while ago. Clearly for all to see the documentation submitted as asset declaration showed the accountants had made an arithmetic mistake and the total value of the assets was therefore about 10 million Baht higher than indicated. All items were clearly indicated. Addition is difficult, probably the battery of the calculator failed.

The cheek, I assume the accountants team was offered a re-education session, in mathematics that is.

PS the links provided

http://asiancorrespondent.com/127260/prayuths-brothers-mathematically-challenged-assets-declaration/

http://thediplomat.com/2014/10/thai-junta-beset-by-corruption-scandals/

PPS the diplomat has 'diplomatic' language use, like 'apparently' without going into details.

Edited October 23, 2015 by rubl