How to salvage a failing business?

[simon43]

Advice welcome on this topic.

I specifically use the word 'salvage' because I think it is too late for a 'rescue'.

The business in question is one of the airport hotels that I built about 4 years ago in Phuket for ex wife #2. This ex has perfected the art of business mismanagement and incompetence over the past years, such that she is probably one of the world's greatest experts in the art of stupidity, selfishness, vanity and laziness

Despite the general business malaise in Phuket, this is not the reason for the business problems. The business concept itself is not the problem, as can be demonstrated by the fact that the other 3 airport hotels that I built are all profitable, (and each under different ownership/management).

Basically, the ex has vastly overstretched her monthly debt versus income ratio, in both business and personal loans.

Due to her business mismanagement, the business income is about 50% of what it should be, whilst her monthly debts are twice the current business income!

So... even if the business were turned around, it would simply be servicing the debts, with nothing to save in the bank. Hence my use of the phrase 'salvage the business', as opposed to 'rescue the business'.

The problem has come to a crisis point recently because the ex decided to buy the land on which the hotel buildings are built. (Previously, she long-leased the land, with a reasonable, monthly rent).

4 months ago, she borrowed 5 million baht from the bank to buy the land, using the Chanote as security. I warned her not to agree to any repayment amount more than about 30,000 baht a month, (this was before I was aware of her other debts...).

She went and signed a mortage/loan that required a monthly repayment of 60,000 baht.

I told her immediately that this amount was impossible to service from the business, and that she was doomed.

To date, she has managed to service this debt by foregoing payment of other debts. Now there is no money left at all and I had to bail her out yesterday before the hotel electricity was cut off. (I would have let the guy cut off the leccy, but I needed a day or 2 to consider all options).

So here are her monthly debt commitments:

Business debts:

60,000 baht - mortgage from the bank to buy the land on which the hotel is located

10,000 baht - electricity bill each month

20,000 baht - staff (family) salaries

7,000 baht - green-plated taxi that is needed to enter Phuket Airport to pick up guests. This old Toyota Wish is required for both her hotel and mine - the green plate is very difficult to obtain nowadays and we share the vehicle. (This 7,000 baht is because the ex borrowed 200,000 baht using the car as security, in order to pay the deposit on a new, personal car - I only found out about this debt today)

Personal debts:

9,000 baht - New Toyota Yaris that she bought to impress various boyfriends LoL

18,000 baht - Mortgage on a 3-bed house that she bought a few years ago

The business income right now is about 60,000 baht/month in low season and 120,000 baht in high season. Under good management, it could be doubled, if not trebled, with minimum increase in business expenses.

So.... it would appear that the business is doomed. I neither have the funds, nor the interest in buying her business, unless I could acquire it 'free'. (I am too busy looking after and expanding my own hotel).

My salvage plan would be:

1) Ex has to accept that the business is doomed and almost unsalvagable

2) For the 60,000 baht loan, the bank has already told her that they will not consider a reduction of that amount. I propose that she informs the bank that the land/business is now up for sale and only pay the bank a token monthly amount (10,000 baht). If she manages to sell the land/business, then the bank should get their loan repaid. If no-one wants to buy, and the bank goes for foreclosure, then she has been able to save some money from high season bookings, and can sell all the furnishings/inventory to bank some more money.

3) For the green-plate Wish, I will service this debt, but only if she signs a legal contract that means that I (my Thai ltd company) will acquire ownership of the car and green plate after the debt is fully repaid.

4) The new car should be rented out on a monthly basis

5) The spare rooms at her house should be rented out (the house is opposite the main government school, and it is feasible to rent out rooms to senior Mathayom students).

6) Ex should return to live in Bangkok and earn a salary doing what she does best (she has a lot of experience...)

I forgot to add that the land and hotel should be sold at a 'fire sale' price, enough to repay the bank etc. (The business is still trading).

Now, does anyone have any better suggestions? (Ex does have life-insurance on the bank loans, and an assassination would solve many of the problems. However, I would probably be suspect #1)

Edited October 22, 2015 by simon43

[MaeJoMTB]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Unless you still have access to the original 'product'.

Point to note,

All property, vehicles and accounts in her name can be claimed by the bank, not just the hotel.

Edited October 22, 2015 by MaeJoMTB

[simon43]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Agreed, but as mentioned, I do have an interest if there is a solution which enables me (my Thai company) to take ownership of the hotel and land at a minimal cost.

[Soutpeel]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Unless you still have access to the original 'product'.

Point to note,

All property, vehicles and accounts in her name can be claimed by the bank, not just the hotel.

Going to agree with you for once, dont get mixed up in the business dealings of Ex wives....she has made her bed, she lays into....

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

[Soutpeel]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Unless you still have access to the original 'product'.

Point to note,

All property, vehicles and accounts in her name can be claimed by the bank, not just the hotel.

Only if they are under a Limited Company they can, this is the pupose of a limited company....limited liability...legal person and all.....anything which is in her personal name cant be touched by the bank...

Ie the Yaris and the 3 bed house....assuming they are in her own name

Edited October 22, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Soutpeel]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Agreed, but as mentioned, I do have an interest if there is a solution which enables me (my Thai company) to take ownership of the hotel and land at a minimal cost.

Is the 5 mill loan in the company name or hers ?

[blackcab]

I would consider letting it fold before you jump in. You will get the best deal when your ex has lost the illusion that

a. She is still in control of the situation, and

b. The bank wants their money

To get the best profit I would hang back and see where it goes. The only thing you should consider is buying out the taxi/plate.

Edited October 22, 2015 by blackcab

[ttthailand]

Let her come to you for a solution makes the most sense. If you really want to take over the business then forget that she is your X and make an offer and see where it goes.

She could perhaps also try to sell her house or rent it and use the money for the business. That would also reduce her expenses by 18k a month or perhaps she can even make money from the rent after house is rented. But this would be a way for her to keep the business which I think is not your true wish.

[dddave]

I think Blackcab makes an excellent point. Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Wash your hands of it entirely.

[simon43]

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

Zero financial interest.

Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Absolutely correct! If I do manage to take control/ownership of the business, this would have to be via an anonymous, third party. Right now, I have very little interest in acquiring her business because I would need to work hard to turn it around and I am already working hard to expand my own little hotel.

No-one supports the assassination idea then?

[Soutpeel]

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

Zero financial interest.

[qote]

Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Absolutely correct! If I do manage to take control/ownership of the business, this would have to be via an anonymous, third party. Right now, I have very little interest in acquiring her business because I would need to work hard to turn it around and I am already working hard to expand my own little hotel.

No-one supports the assassination idea then?

Best thing you can do is let the business go into liquidation and the loan defaults and make a deal with the bank so they get their money back and you get the hotel

[blackcab]

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

Zero financial interest.

Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Absolutely correct! If I do manage to take control/ownership of the business, this would have to be via an anonymous, third party. Right now, I have very little interest in acquiring her business because I would need to work hard to turn it around and I am already working hard to expand my own little hotel.

No-one supports the assassination idea then?

She's doing a good enough job herself. The only thing you need to give her is time.

Edited October 22, 2015 by blackcab

[SOTIRIOS]

..........sell.........

...and if not divorced....take your half......

...it seems like you let this go on for far too long......

...if you have too much money....please P.M. me.......

[SimonI]

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

Zero financial interest.

[qote]

Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Absolutely correct! If I do manage to take control/ownership of the business, this would have to be via an anonymous, third party. Right now, I have very little interest in acquiring her business because I would need to work hard to turn it around and I am already working hard to expand my own little hotel.

No-one supports the assassination idea then?

Then If you do not mind doom her with her financial situation, leave if as it is. Just take that car with green plates as you mentioned earlier. Let her stick with the flow regards to the rest.

Be rational.

[oncearugge]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Agreed, but as mentioned, I do have an interest if there is a solution which enables me (my Thai company) to take ownership of the hotel and land at a minimal cost.

The business seems to be bankrupt.

The advice offered will not be acted upon.

Attempt to obtain full ownership of the "green plate".

The debts, otherwise seem not to involve you unless there has also been some dodgy dealing involving "questionable" signatures.

Just sit back and await the fire-sale.

[1FinickyOne]

When it is your ex wife - all rational behavior is likely to disappear -

There are millions upon millions of business opportunities in the world… why pick one that is owned by your ex and shoot for fire sale prices? It sounds like your are courting trouble more than opportunity...

[sead]

So this is my story. After taking care of my gf 2 years i kicked her after she kissed some guy in disco. Gave her20k bht and blocked her from condominium. I dont care. I can do what i want now. So now she work in coyote bar. Selling drinks again and letting anyone from A-z touching her. Sleeping at friends places the friends slowly getting irritated.Drunk every day.

Now she begs me to take her back. I will be your dog if you want. I know i do wrong. Many embarrassing things for a thai to say. And no she is not welcomed back.

She has to fall down hard before realising some things. Thats the only way a thai will learn.

[GOLDBUGGY]

unless of you have done something really stupid and have a finanical interest in this whole mess ?

Zero financial interest.

Being Thai and used to being subsidized and bailed out, even if you do end up getting a deal on buying it all back, she will still consider it hers and be a constant thorn in your side...along with her family who want to preserve their rice bowl.

Absolutely correct! If I do manage to take control/ownership of the business, this would have to be via an anonymous, third party. Right now, I have very little interest in acquiring her business because I would need to work hard to turn it around and I am already working hard to expand my own little hotel.

No-one supports the assassination idea then?

No!

But if this was your intent you should have done that before the Divorce and not afterwards.

[manarak]

looks to me that you now got some joy from laying down your ex #2's unmanageable situation in the forum along with some schadenfreude - what is the downside of letting her sink with her ship?

do you feel a slight pain because the hotel is one of your babies?

Edited October 22, 2015 by manarak

[simon43]

Lots of quotes to reply to, so i'll use QUOTE/UNQUOTE to distinguish them from each other:

and make a deal with the bank so they get their money back and you get the hotel

As I mentioned, I'm not that bothered about acquiring the business, because I do fine with my own hotel. In any case, there is no way that I would agree to pay 60k baht per month to the bank.

QUOTE

...and if not divorced....take your half......

...it seems like you let this go on for far too long......

UNQUOTE

Divorced from her many years ago - I have no financial interest in the business.

As for letting it go on for far too long, the manner in which she mismanages her own business is nothing to do with me. I have made sensible recommendations to her a thousand times, but she ignores them all, (she knows best...)

QUOTE

The debts, otherwise seem not to involve you unless there has also been some dodgy dealing involving "questionable" signatures

UNQUOTE

All debts are her personal or her sole trader business debts- nothing to do with me

QUOTE

But if this was your intent you should have done that before the Divorce and not afterwards.

UNQUOTE

Assassination of her was an option from early on in the marriage when everything with the marriage went t*ts up (about 10 years ago). Sudden death is an option because of the life insurance on the bank loans, for those members who are not used to my 'wit', I should mention that I am being sarcastic...maybe

QUOTE

do you feel a slight pain because the hotel is one of your babies?

UNQUOTE

Yes of course. I built the hotel by hand, so it is a shame to see the situation now. However, those TV members from 10 years ago (are there any?), will remember that this is the ex who destroyed my marriage and family all those years ago. I get satisfaction (som nam na) from seeing her in this situation now. With lots of luck, she might also go to prison if the lenders chase her for payment

[robertson468]

I would recommend you stand right back and preferably behind some "firewall" so that you do not get hit by any flak when the proverbial hits the fan, because believe you me, legal issues do not go the same way in Thailand, as they would in a developed Country and the ducking and diving that goes on, is absolutely mind boggling. If someone, somewhere can heave a dungball at you whilst the business is collapsing, they will do so, even going to the extent of forged documents/signatures. Back right off until the "nasty bit" is over and then make a bid to the Bank for the business. Otherwise, you are asking to get your fingers burnt. Sorry to be so blunt. Oh, and take emotion out of it. You are considering a business proposition, nothing more, nothing less. Or.................?

[simon43]

so that you do not get hit by any flak when the proverbial hits the fan

I do not intend any flak to hit me. We are not talking about a recent ex. I divorced her years ago, (and remarried and divorced again!). I have never had any share or interest in her land or business

[onni4me]

I strongly suggest to not get involved in any way.

Even the 'green plate' car - whatever it means - forget it if the issue becomes more difficult. Thais - the type you are describing - are a pain in the ass. They will screw you all the way with no guilt. You mentioned you didn't know about the other debts? What else is there that you are not aware of? Might be plenty...

If me and some ex, I would play hard to contact...maybe even a holiday far far away from her and the family. Nothing good will come of this if you get involved. If you do, six months from this we will read about your awful mistake of getting involved...

[Slip]

Simon I've been around long enough at least to remember some of your earlier posts on this and your businesses.

I think the best advice you have been given here is the firewall. The only thing that seems of any immediate value to you is that taxi plate. Can you somehow do a deal to pay her some cash for that in a few months time when she will be on her uppers (while still not having any kind of relationship/ interaction)?

I wouldn't bother with the hotel- as a business decision there is too much emotional baggage attached, even if the price is amazing.

All the best mate.

[simon43]

maybe even a holiday far far away from her

That is difficult - my own, profitable hotel is within metres of her hotel, (as is the profitable hotel of my other ex-wife LoL)

[itsmylife]

Go buy lottery now and hope you can win 3 million baht next draw date then pay off half the loan first .

[simon43]

Go buy lottery now and hope you can win 3 million baht next draw date then pay off half the loan first

LoL, that is exactly what she is doing

BTW, she just stopped by my place to tell me that she is going to open a beer bar in Chalong (Phuket). Only needs to borrow 75,000 baht in initial deposits etc.

Sounds like a plan

[Ulic]

Sell the house, sell the personal car, move into one of the hotel rooms (at least in the low

season when she has a room available) Maybe in the high season as well. Tighten the belt.

Of course she has to see the light at the end of the tunnel. It may be too much face to loose.

As for your part, don't throw good money after bad.

[MobileContent]

I wouldn't get involved even for the green plate of the taxi/limo etc. We have over 100 green plated limos within Thailand and it is not difficult to get.

I agree with the other posters. Let her business fail and in addition she wouldn't be your neighbor which has to become some positive out of it once the bank declares bankruptcy on her and if she doesn't have a Ltd company she will be responsible for all debts.

[NickJ]

Oddly some guys like the drama. Being a kind of puppet master in there ex's lives. See....you were stupid to leave me kinda thing........Doing business where an ex-Thai wife is concerned seems ludicrious......I knew a guy who did this on a grand scale. Nothing but drama......years into it we we were killing a bottle of single malt and he admitted that he loved the drama.......

Me I would change my sim card. my email. and bow so far out I would fall of the stage.