How to salvage a failing business?

[bazza40]

I would have thought with two ex-wives you would have learned from your mistakes. As you are obviously wealthy enough ( according to you ), it seems to me it's more a matter of ego than taking a rational business decision, which is to stay the hell out.

[GOLDBUGGY]

Although the purchase of this land for 5 M Baht might be a good idea, this Bank Mortgage she got was simply terrible. Looks like it is payable in 10 years or less. I question why the bank even went along with this as she must of had to supply financial records to get this mortgage. So she either lied to them or to you. No bank is going to lend to a business where payment are equal to the gross income less operating expenses.

I am not sure what advice you may seek as you seem to have more knowledge and answers to this then we do. It is obvious she needs to reduce her debt and increase her income. But if she doesn't have the "Know How" no advice is going to help her now. You don't need a good business sense to know you can keep s business solvent if the debt payments exceed the income.

Without income from the business I can't see how she will be able to keep her house or car either. So perhaps selling this first might be the way to go. But to survive she also needs to reduce her mortgage payment. Perhaps through a different bank if need be. She has dug herself in a deep hole and I am sure you know that. .

[ggt]

Claim you have a termite infestation...remove all guests...while unoccupied...and you are out of the country/area...the business catches fire and burns to the ground...

Note: make sure the business has good insurance...prior to the unfortunate accident...

[simon43]

As for your part, don't throw good money after bad

Apart from the 7,000 baht leccy bill, I haven't thrown any money and don't tend to

Although I have no financial interest in all this, I do have a 'moral' interest, in that if she loses everything, then her kids will suffer.

I'm not concerned about her business failing, or losing the land and cars. For me, the most important aspect is that she doesn't lose a roof over the head for her kids. The loan repayment on her house is 18,000 baht. It is feasible to rent it out for maybe 12,000 baht, then rent a 'Thai' house for 4,000 per month, meaning that she has to cover 10,000 baht/month,which is surely possible when working on your back

We have over 100 green plated limos within Thailand and it is not difficult to get.

In Phuket, getting a green plate for a hotel taxi, (not a public taxi) to enter the airport, is very difficult indeed - they are not issued right now.

[Jacks77]

You either take full control of the entire business or walk away. I had a gf with the same problems as your ex wife. For some reason they are extremely optmistic about being able to afford any debt obligation when signing a loan only to find out later their rosy optmism was more like a dream.

Your ex wife is simply not smart enough to run a business and there is no telling whether or not she will be in the same situation again in the future if you rescue her from this one. These people never learn. Walk away and save the stress.

[sead]

maybe even a holiday far far away from her

That is difficult - my own, profitable hotel is within metres of her hotel, (as is the profitable hotel of my other ex-wife LoL)

Think i also want to marry you

[PattayaPhom]

Although the purchase of this land for 5 M Baht might be a good idea, this Bank Mortgage she got was simply terrible. Looks like it is payable in 10 years or less. I question why the bank even went along with this as she must of had to supply financial records to get this mortgage. So she either lied to them or to you. No bank is going to lend to a business where payment are equal to the gross income less operating expenses.

I am not sure what advice you may seek as you seem to have more knowledge and answers to this then we do. It is obvious she needs to reduce her debt and increase her income. But if she doesn't have the "Know How" no advice is going to help her now. You don't need a good business sense to know you can keep s business solvent if the debt payments exceed the income.

Without income from the business I can't see how she will be able to keep her house or car either. So perhaps selling this first might be the way to go. But to survive she also needs to reduce her mortgage payment. Perhaps through a different bank if need be. She has dug herself in a deep hole and I am sure you know that. .

Exactly, a 5M loan with a repayment of 60K a month means one of 2 things, either the term is too short so should be extended or the interest rate is ridiculously high so you should shop around for another....this should be the priority befor even looking at saving marginal amounts on cars etc when this monthly debt payment could be reduced considerably.

[JLCrab]

[Straight8]

So this is my story. After taking care of my gf 2 years i kicked her after she kissed some guy in disco. Gave her20k bht and blocked her from condominium. I dont care. I can do what i want now. So now she work in coyote bar. Selling drinks again and letting anyone from A-z touching her. Sleeping at friends places the friends slowly getting irritated.Drunk every day.

Now she begs me to take her back. I will be your dog if you want. I know i do wrong. Many embarrassing things for a thai to say. And no she is not welcomed back.

She has to fall down hard before realising some things. Thats the only way a thai will learn.

Taking care of, kissing other guys, paying her 20k baht, working in bars...hmmmm, a fine catch!!!

Oh, they never learn bud!!!

[kinmaew]

Yet another one, I cannot understand why people obviously with money insist on doing business in that country. If you have money for a hotel why don't you buy a few units in the UK/AUS or your country and rent them out all under your name all above board and if you work it right tax free. When Thais are born the same message is conveyed to all "Hey, you will encounter foreigners, don't worry they are forced to employ you no matter what so do whatever you like and collect the money"

[simon43]

Yet another one, I cannot understand why people obviously with money insist on doing business in that country

Hi - your reading skills are lacking. This is not my business that is in trouble, and it is not my money. It is the business of one of my ex-wives.

My own hotel business is doing great and currently being expanded.

[MobileContent]

Yet another one, I cannot understand why people obviously with money insist on doing business in that country. If you have money for a hotel why don't you buy a few units in the UK/AUS or your country and rent them out all under your name all above board and if you work it right tax free. When Thais are born the same message is conveyed to all "Hey, you will encounter foreigners, don't worry they are forced to employ you no matter what so do whatever you like and collect the money"

I have to disagree. I know of many foreigners who run and own hotels in Thailand and they make good money out of it and they have been doing it for many years already. A friend of mine just build another boutique resort in Hua Hin. Most of the hotels owned are fully booked and they make tons of money. Some even went through a nasty divorce and paid millions to get rid of their ex-GF/wife and they made sure that those ex stayed far away from their business operation.

Thailand is a gold mine to make money in the tourism industry and with the right attitude and management skills it is easy to fill up a hotel with 50-100 rooms.

[Jonathon]

Many Thais are addicted to borrowing and never consider the means to meet the payments. Be careful; she may be carrying even more debt to the ubiquitous village loan sharks who ask more interest in a month than the bank would in a year, all cash of course.

[Robert24]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Unless you still have access to the original 'product'.

Point to note,

All property, vehicles and accounts in her name can be claimed by the bank, not just the hotel.

agree with your first point. About the bank mortgage. Usually a mortgage only allows the bank to repossess the property and not all her assets. And even that will take a while until the bank has approval to do so.

[Robert24]

My recommendation is to go bankrupt and startover. Once debt is so high, it doesn't make sense to pour in more money.

Now obviously by doing so, she cannot get a new loan because she will be blacklisted, so the loan would have to be obtained by someone else, i.e. her new husband/bf, father, brother, sister whoever. But to go bankrupt is probably to best way forward in that situation.

[onni4me]

BTW, has the OP seen the actual paperwork on the loans with payments and bookkeeping or is this just hearsay from the ex?

If so, I wouldn't wonder if there are more surprises...

Strong avoid the whole thing. You talk about moral issues concerning her (your?) kids. How about her moral obligations? Let her deal with it. She has chosen her way and now will use ANY excuse to get something from you. After the collapse you can always take the kids to live with you if your morals so dictate...do not combine business and personal. It never works.

[worgeordie]

Have you not got enough problems of your own to be worried about her

and the debt she is in,its all self inflicted,even if you did manage to buy

the property cheap,through a 3 rd party, she would find out (they always do),

so you would not only have an ex wife,but an angry enemy,and you know

what Thais can get done with 50K THB or less,everything would be your

fault,Thais never take responsibility for THEIR mistakes,its always someone

else's fault. so just forget all about it and get on with your life.

regards worgeordie

[simon43]

she may be carrying even more debt to the ubiquitous village loan sharks who ask more interest in a month than the bank would in a year, all cash of course.

Oh she is! 30k borrowed, 1,500 baht to pay every day.

BTW, has the OP seen the actual paperwork on the loans with payments and bookkeeping or is this just hearsay from the ex?

Seen the paperwork, spoken with the bank, asked them why they agreed to loan her the money when the monthly repayment amount is impossible to manage. They couldn't give me a good answer.

QUOTE

Have you not got enough problems of your own

What problems are those? Oh yes, managing the build of 6 more guest rooms at my hotel to meet the increasing demand for accommodation. Or maybe it is completing the build of the gym at my hotel. Nope, maybe it is worrying about my hansum face after my recent face lift LoL.

Not sure what problems I have. I got it. Must try to stop laughing so much at my idiot ex-wife

[JLCrab]

Some here are trying to do the same with her ex-husband.

Edited October 23, 2015 by JLCrab

[simon43]

The important word in my OP is 'salvage'. It seems clear to me that the business is beyond 'rescue'. Thus, what can be done to salvage the most from the business? My idea is to trade though high season, don't pay the bank the 60,000 baht each month until foreclosure is due, then close the business and sell everything possible (beds, TVs etc) to a secondhand shop.

If the bank is able to sell the land to cover its loan, then fine. If not, I suspect that the Thai legal process moves very slowly, if at all to go after the ex for monies due.

[oncearugge]

The important word in my OP is 'salvage'. It seems clear to me that the business is beyond 'rescue'. Thus, what can be done to salvage the most from the business? My idea is to trade though high season, don't pay the bank the 60,000 baht each month until foreclosure is due, then close the business and sell everything possible (beds, TVs etc) to a secondhand shop.

If the bank is able to sell the land to cover its loan, then fine. If not, I suspect that the Thai legal process moves very slowly, if at all to go after the ex for monies due.

The bank may oppose the selling of any assets belonging to the business.

I do not know about Thailand but it would be illegal and possibly criminal to continue trading from a essentially bankrupt business in the UK.

Edited October 23, 2015 by oncearugge

[thaiduncankk]

I never understand why these people with 'supposed' big money come here, or anywhere for that matter, and start businesses because they are going to make even 'more' money.

Why not just get a hobby and enjoy a stress free life ?

I think ego could be one of the reasons, and probably don't really have as much money as they profess ?

[bimmerbob]

Not your wife, not your problem.

Unless you still have access to the original 'product'.

Point to note,

All property, vehicles and accounts in her name can be claimed by the bank, not just the hotel.

Only if they are under a Limited Company they can, this is the pupose of a limited company....limited liability...legal person and all.....anything which is in her personal name cant be touched by the bank...

Ie the Yaris and the 3 bed house....assuming they are in her own name

....bank may have asked for personal guarantees.........

If the business was not that successful, why would she have wanted to purchase the land and commit additional cashflow? Also, whoever at the bank authorised the loan must live in a cuckoo land if they thought the business was able to service the loan...........

Do they even have proper credit checks in Thailand?

[Thunderbirds20]

Sounds like the one and only problem from which all else is derived is the mismanagement of your ex. Get rid of her and replace her with a competent manager

[impulse]

I like the assassination idea. But only after you have bailed her out and gotten the business into the black and then she can forge all the documents to wipe your name off all the assets.

Seems to work like a charm in many cases.

Unless you mean you'd be hiring the hit man, and not her. That would be foolish...

Edited October 23, 2015 by impulse

[simon43]

To remind some posters - this is not my business, nor has it ever been my business, nor have I any financial interest in the business, nor have I spent any money on the business.

I built the hotel for her about 5 years ago - she paid me for that work.

I have built 3 other hotels in the same location and based on the same business model - they are all profitable

I regularly warn her about the business P/L etc - she happily ignores me

I really can't advise her if she doesn't like my advice

[ianf]

Well that's a good and honest post. And it says a lot about how certain Thai women behave.

I have a close friend who has the same problem with an ex who won't let go of a business which has gone from profit to 85 million debt.

Somehow they think they are God's gift to business but have no understanding of balance sheets or simple ins and outs.

There's also the huge question of loss of face. That's a major problem here in Thailand and whatever solution that you come to, think of one that saves her face and you then might come to some agreement.

On the other hand salvage what you need and keep well away. Because another aspect of these women is that they are spiteful and stupid.

Best of luck to you.

[bwpage3]

Sounds like you are awfully chummy with your ex-wife?

Just the fact that you mention overspending and too much debt by your chummy ex, you already answered your own question

The business will go under.

[bwpage3]

I for one remember years ago when you started this whole venture and thought it was nuts.

You use the word hotel here kind of loosely. You should post up the photos of the place like you did previously so the new readers get an idea what you are talking about. If they like your "hotel" maybe an angel investor will pop up.

60,000 thb a month for 5 million loan is approx 5.9 years with 0% interest. Shop around at another bank and get a 15 year loan. Should be easy if the land is worth what you paid for it.

Hotels that cannot service 60,000 a month in debt are not doing great and yours isn't either (Define great in terms of money per month?)

120,000 a month in high season is nothing for a quote unquote "hotel" in Phuket

How many rooms in your ex wife's "hotel" and what is the average cost of a night at her "hotel"

Doing the math should be pretty simple to find out the salvage-ability of the whole mess

It is always interesting how land is for sale in Phuket, that no one else wanted, when all valued land is scarfed up immediately for ridiculous prices?

How much land is there for the 5,000,000 baht?

If you are making money like you claim, use your earning and property as collateral for another western loan or ???? and refinance the terms so that it is serviceable

A business plan here knowing total number of rooms, average rental cost per night, utilities, salaries, tax, etc. etc. should give you a ballpark figure what terms you need to survive.

I would guess if someone else took over her "hotel" that might be not be so friendly and try to run you out as well.

Who comes to Phuket to want to stay at the airport and not the beach?

[simon43]

@bwpage3, your post keeps on saying 'your hotel'. It is not my hotel - please try reading my OP.

Who comes to Phuket to want to stay at the airport and not the beach?

Er.. for the same reason that people stay near Suwanabhumi, (or Heathrow or JFK or... or...)

They are transit hotels - Duh!!!