Airport Immigration demanding work permit.

[Joy888]

Twice in a row for me.
First time I was warned next time I enter Thailand on a valid Non Imm B and cant produce a work permit they will not allow me in. Two days ago, on my recent re-entry I was interrogated 30 minutes and just barely got in. I currently hold a valid Non Imm B Visa AND own a Thai limited company... had all my company documents with me including staff details, plus a letter from my lawyer explaining my old WP was cancelled and we were waiting on the Labour Department to issue it the new one.

Still not good enough. Immigration had no interest in talking to my lawyer for confirmation, nor did they seem to care all my company documents were in order. They seemed intent on not allowing me in. And when they did eventually stamp me in... the comment was "We don't believe you but we'll let you in".

What the hell is going on? It is NOT a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to be in possession of a work permit in order to hold a Non Imm B visa. You don't even need to be employed... yet Immigration have taken the view unless a work permit is produced, they will not be allowing entry anymore even on a valid on Non Imm B. This has happened to many of my friends here in Phuket also. Is this just Phuket or is it happening in BKK also?

[tonray]

Did you have an extension based upon your work permit or just an original 90 day Non-B ?

[chrisinth]

Is it a visa or an extension you have in your passport?

If it is a visa, then you are correct, you do not need a WP to support a non-B visa. We organize non-B's for some of our American instructors who will be in country for a few weeks at a time. i am not even sure if this is still necessary as i remember some changes not too long ago.

Might have been an idea to not mention owning a Thai Limited company though........................

[Joy888]

Did you have an extension based upon your work permit or just an original 90 day Non-B ?

No, as stated its a non Imm B Visa. I'm aware Extension of Stay requires WP.

I'm on a 1 year Non Imm B.

[oncearugge]

If you are working without a WP (as the immigration officers may have suspected) it is for your responsibility ,personally, to satisfy the IO that you were not, in fact working illegally.

[Soutpeel]

Understandable.....a common scam people pull get issued a Non-imm B with a view at looking at setting up a business in Thailand and never do or work without a WP in another company....the fact you already have a company and doing business and have staff suggests you are working in that company....so can kinda see where they are coming from

[Joy888]

Understandable.....a common scam people pull get issued a Non-imm B with a view at looking at setting up a business in Thailand and never do or work without a WP in another company....the fact you already have a company and doing business and have staff suggests you are working in that company....so can kinda see where they are coming from

Yeah sure... BUT I had a letter from my lawyer explaining the situation. And a copy of my previous WP to that is actually valid unti next year (but needed to be cancelled and a new one applied for due to change in employment detail). This was all explained in a letter on company letterhead signed by my lawyer.

The fact is... WP's cant just be changed in 1 day... it takes time. Immigration know this. It just so happened I had to leave the country while the change was taking place. I told them I had stopped work until the new WP arrived, and that was confirmed in the letter from my lawyer. What else am I supposed to do??

The point is... I'm not on a Tourist Visa and taking advantage of the system to illegally work. I'm on the correct Visa type, and have been for years. I had all the correct documents plus confirmation letters. Clearly I'm not a scammer. So why give me a hard time? Why are they giving everybody a hard time who is trying to do the right thing?

The reason I have elected to stay on Visa's as opposed to Extension Of Stay is security. The Visa always remains valid... where as the Extension of stay is terminated the moment your WP is cancelled.

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

[bigt3116]

"2015-10-10 17:28:12

This comes from 18 years experience making Visa's and I own a Visa company here in Thailand also"

You are working here, just because your admin is not up to par, does not mean that immigration have to cut you any slack - surely after 18 years and running a visa company, you would know this ? The IO correctly guessed, that for however long it was or might be, you are working without a WP.

[Soutpeel]

Understandable.....a common scam people pull get issued a Non-imm B with a view at looking at setting up a business in Thailand and never do or work without a WP in another company....the fact you already have a company and doing business and have staff suggests you are working in that company....so can kinda see where they are coming from

Yeah sure... BUT I had a letter from my lawyer explaining the situation. And a copy of my previous WP to that is actually valid unti next year (but needed to be cancelled and a new one applied for due to change in employment detail). This was all explained in a letter on company letterhead signed by my lawyer.

The fact is... WP's cant just be changed in 1 day... it takes time. Immigration know this. It just so happened I had to leave the country while the change was taking place. I told them I had stopped work until the new WP arrived, and that was confirmed in the letter from my lawyer. What else am I supposed to do??

The point is... I'm not on a Tourist Visa and taking advantage of the system to illegally work. I'm on the correct Visa type, and have been for years. I had all the correct documents plus confirmation letters. Clearly I'm not a scammer. So why give me a hard time? Why are they giving everybody a hard time who is trying to do the right thing?

The reason I have elected to stay on Visa's as opposed to Extension Of Stay is security. The Visa always remains valid... where as the Extension of stay is terminated the moment your WP is cancelled.

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

A letter can be written saying anything....but did you have copies of the application for the WP to the DOL to show to them one suspects that may have shut them up ?

[Joy888]

"2015-10-10 17:28:12

This comes from 18 years experience making Visa's and I own a Visa company here in Thailand also"

You are working here, just because your admin is not up to par, does not mean that immigration have to cut you any slack - surely after 18 years and running a visa company, you would know this ? The IO correctly guessed, that for however long it was or might be, you are working without a WP.

May I also suggest an appointment with the eye specialist... you obviously didn't read the part where I said I had a valid WP through to July 2016 (and prior ones to that) but we cancelled it in order to apply for a new one.

Oh, and since you seem to know so much about the topic...how would you suggest my admin would get a new WP in 3 days? Or even better, what would be your suggestion to the Thai Labour Department on eliminating the gap time between cancelling 1 WP and re-applying for another?

What happens if somebody on a Non Imm B changes jobs? They need to cancel the old WP and re-apply for a new one. You start work at your new employment until the new WP arrives. This can take upwards of 1 month. So what's your advice to those people?

Lot of people here working legally mate... situations dont always remain the same.

[Joy888]

"2015-10-10 17:28:12

This comes from 18 years experience making Visa's and I own a Visa company here in Thailand also"

You are working here, just because your admin is not up to par, does not mean that immigration have to cut you any slack - surely after 18 years and running a visa company, you would know this ? The IO correctly guessed, that for however long it was or might be, you are working without a WP.

May I also suggest an appointment with the eye specialist... you obviously didn't read the part where I said I had a valid WP through to July 2016 (and prior ones to that) but we cancelled it in order to apply for a new one.

Oh, and since you seem to know so much about the topic...how would you suggest my admin would get a new WP in 3 days? Or even better, what would be your suggestion to the Thai Labour Department on eliminating the gap time between cancelling 1 WP and re-applying for another?

What happens if somebody on a Non Imm B changes jobs? They need to cancel the old WP and re-apply for a new one. You start work at your new employment until the new WP arrives. This can take upwards of 1 month. So what's your advice to those people?

Lot of people here working legally mate... situations dont always remain the same.

**EDIT- You CANT start work at your new employment until the new WP arrives **

[KittenKong]

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

Looks like you know the answer to your own question.

[oncearugge]

"2015-10-10 17:28:12

This comes from 18 years experience making Visa's and I own a Visa company here in Thailand also"

You are working here, just because your admin is not up to par, does not mean that immigration have to cut you any slack - surely after 18 years and running a visa company, you would know this ? The IO correctly guessed, that for however long it was or might be, you are working without a WP.

May I also suggest an appointment with the eye specialist... you obviously didn't read the part where I said I had a valid WP through to July 2016 (and prior ones to that) but we cancelled it in order to apply for a new one.

Oh, and since you seem to know so much about the topic...how would you suggest my admin would get a new WP in 3 days? Or even better, what would be your suggestion to the Thai Labour Department on eliminating the gap time between cancelling 1 WP and re-applying for another?

What happens if somebody on a Non Imm B changes jobs? They need to cancel the old WP and re-apply for a new one. You start work at your new employment until the new WP arrives. This can take upwards of 1 month. So what's your advice to those people?

Lot of people here working legally mate... situations dont always remain the same.

just a very small observation .

A cancelled WP is worthless and "proves" nothing.

[Joy888]

Understandable.....a common scam people pull get issued a Non-imm B with a view at looking at setting up a business in Thailand and never do or work without a WP in another company....the fact you already have a company and doing business and have staff suggests you are working in that company....so can kinda see where they are coming from

Yeah sure... BUT I had a letter from my lawyer explaining the situation. And a copy of my previous WP to that is actually valid unti next year (but needed to be cancelled and a new one applied for due to change in employment detail). This was all explained in a letter on company letterhead signed by my lawyer.

The fact is... WP's cant just be changed in 1 day... it takes time. Immigration know this. It just so happened I had to leave the country while the change was taking place. I told them I had stopped work until the new WP arrived, and that was confirmed in the letter from my lawyer. What else am I supposed to do??

The point is... I'm not on a Tourist Visa and taking advantage of the system to illegally work. I'm on the correct Visa type, and have been for years. I had all the correct documents plus confirmation letters. Clearly I'm not a scammer. So why give me a hard time? Why are they giving everybody a hard time who is trying to do the right thing?

The reason I have elected to stay on Visa's as opposed to Extension Of Stay is security. The Visa always remains valid... where as the Extension of stay is terminated the moment your WP is cancelled.

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

A letter can be written saying anything....but did you have copies of the application for the WP to the DOL to show to them one suspects that may have shut them up ?

Hey... thanks. Finally somebody who actually asks a constructive question instead of just tooting their own horn. The answer is no, the reason is the company is newly set up... and its going through the process of inspections by the local authorities here to check to make sure its a real company with real Thai staff. Until that gets the stamp of approval, the proof of WP application (WP3) cannot be filed by the lawyer. Should happen sometimes this week... then WP3 will be lodged and WP on the way. Unfortunately the timing was bad... and Immigration refused to accept it. All I could do was produce the old WP (yeah sure means nothing) to demonstrate I've done the right thing previously. But this and a letter from the lawyer still not good enough.

[Soutpeel]

Understandable.....a common scam people pull get issued a Non-imm B with a view at looking at setting up a business in Thailand and never do or work without a WP in another company....the fact you already have a company and doing business and have staff suggests you are working in that company....so can kinda see where they are coming from

Yeah sure... BUT I had a letter from my lawyer explaining the situation. And a copy of my previous WP to that is actually valid unti next year (but needed to be cancelled and a new one applied for due to change in employment detail). This was all explained in a letter on company letterhead signed by my lawyer.

The fact is... WP's cant just be changed in 1 day... it takes time. Immigration know this. It just so happened I had to leave the country while the change was taking place. I told them I had stopped work until the new WP arrived, and that was confirmed in the letter from my lawyer. What else am I supposed to do??

The point is... I'm not on a Tourist Visa and taking advantage of the system to illegally work. I'm on the correct Visa type, and have been for years. I had all the correct documents plus confirmation letters. Clearly I'm not a scammer. So why give me a hard time? Why are they giving everybody a hard time who is trying to do the right thing?

The reason I have elected to stay on Visa's as opposed to Extension Of Stay is security. The Visa always remains valid... where as the Extension of stay is terminated the moment your WP is cancelled.

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

A letter can be written saying anything....but did you have copies of the application for the WP to the DOL to show to them one suspects that may have shut them up ?

Hey... thanks. Finally somebody who actually asks a constructive question instead of just tooting their own horn. The answer is no, the reason is the company is newly set up... and its going through the process of inspections by the local authorities here to check to make sure its a real company with real Thai staff. Until that gets the stamp of approval, the proof of WP application (WP3) cannot be filed by the lawyer. Should happen sometimes this week... then WP3 will be lodged and WP on the way. Unfortunately the timing was bad... and Immigration refused to accept it. All I could do was produce the old WP (yeah sure means nothing) to demonstrate I've done the right thing previously. But this and a letter from the lawyer still not good enough.

And theres your problem, it all makes perfect sense why they stopped you and the fact you showed them a cancelled WP will compound the problem....you would have been better showing them nothing except you PP with the visa

Seems to me they where doing the proper due dilligence to satisfy themselves...

Edited October 22, 2015 by Soutpeel

[oncearugge]

I believe the IO's were lenient.

It would seem they had evidence enough to suspect illegal working and they could have refused entry on that basis alone.

If they had refused entry you could have lodged an appeal.

[elviajero]

Another example of immigration being complained about for doing their job!

Anyone can be stopped and interviewed about their activities and need to satisfy any suspicions the IO might have. A cancelled WP and no evidence of new application is definitely going to get the alarm bells ringing.

[Soutpeel]

Another example of immigration being complained about for doing their job!

Anyone can be stopped and interviewed about their activities and need to satisfy any suspicions the IO might have. A cancelled WP and no evidence of new application is definitely going to get the alarm bells ringing.

I got stopped at SUV earlier in the year...give the plod my PP looks at and asks " do you work in Thailand ?.....answer yes you know i do, the company name is written above my re-entry permit....you want to see my WP ?...no not nessecary... stamp.... stamp

I think the OP volunteered too much information initally which raised more questions....PP/Visa over the counter say nothing....do you work here ?....no but currently i am setting up a business in Thailand thats why i have the B visa....can i call my lawyer for you ?

Edited October 22, 2015 by Soutpeel

[xtrnuno41]

2. Application for Visa

2.1 Non-Immigrant Visa Category “B” (Business Visa) is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom to work or to conduct business.
(1) Foreigners who wish to work in Thailand must provide the following documents:
- Passport or travel document with validity of not less than 6 months.
- Completed visa application form.
- Recent passport-sized photograph (4 x 6 cm) of the applicant taken within the past 6 months.
- Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family).
- Letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour. To obtain this letter, the applicant’s prospective employer in Thailand is required to submit Form WP3 at the Office of Foreign Workers Administration, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour Tel. 02-2452745, or at the Provincial Employment Office in his or her respective province. More information is available at www.doe.go.th/workpermit/index.html
- Copy of Work Permit issued by the Ministry of Labour and alien income tax or Por Ngor Dor 91 (only in the case where applicant has previously worked in Thailand).
- Corporate documents of hiring company in Thailand such as:
1) business registration and business license

and so on.So there is a connection visa with WP. You cancelled your WP, infact meaning you cancelled your visa. Guess then you are very lucky to get in.

Despite your letters and other issues.

I was once married to a foreigner and just missed 1 stupid paper, so immigration (holland) said deliver paper or she had to get back, Race against clock to make it work.

And now thousands of people come in without any papers and they are taken care for.

All depends on time, officers and what ever bs

[TravelerEastWest]

"...had all my company documents with me including staff details, plus a letter from my lawyer explaining my old WP was cancelled and we were waiting on the Labour Department to issue it the new one.

Still not good enough. Immigration had no interest in talking to my lawyer for confirmation, nor did they seem to care all my company documents were in order. They seemed intent on not allowing me in. And when they did eventually stamp me in... the comment was "We don't believe you but we'll let you in".

What the hell is going on? It is NOT a LEGAL REQUIREMENT to be in possession of a work permit in order to hold a Non Imm B visa. You don't even need to be employed... yet Immigration have taken the view unless a work permit is produced, they will not be allowing entry anymore even on a valid on Non Imm B...."

You are very lucky and should be thanking the kindness of the IO he clearly said he didn't believe you that you are not working and had every right and probably a duty to not let you in the country end of story.

Discounting the importance of your lawyer's letter is par for the course and very normal in many countries.

What is the supporting connection between your company and your not working?

The fact that you did have a wp permit before and are applying for a new one makes one at the very least question your current work status.

"...yet Immigration have taken the view unless a work permit is produced, they will not be allowing entry anymore even on a valid on Non Imm B..."

Is this a written policy or what you were told or simply your guess?

I think we are all trying to see your point of view but it is really very difficult Immigration were doing their job and they gave you the benefit of the doubt even though they don't believe you - they couldn't possibly be any nicer.

[yellowboat]

No wonder so many of us have had a gutful and moved to Cambodia and Vietnam.

Looks like you know the answer to your own question.

It is sad. There are some good resources in Thailand, but the government makes it so hard. Thai government has always been a odd, uncouth

[SOTIRIOS]

...nonsense...you own a company....and you had more than enough paperwork...including a lawyer's letter...

..way out of line....

[chakatee]

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the following situation goes for the OP:

- Had 1y. Non-B Visa

- Start to work -> extension based on work with work permit. This extension cancels the original Non-B Visa

- Cancel WP = cancel extension

Non-B Visa cancelled by the extension. Extension cancelled by cancelling work permit. = no currently valid visa.

[Joy888]

2. Application for Visa

2.1 Non-Immigrant Visa Category “B” (Business Visa) is issued to applicants who wish to enter the Kingdom to work or to conduct business.

(1) Foreigners who wish to work in Thailand must provide the following documents:

- Passport or travel document with validity of not less than 6 months.

- Completed visa application form.

- Recent passport-sized photograph (4 x 6 cm) of the applicant taken within the past 6 months.

- Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family).

- Letter of approval from the Ministry of Labour. To obtain this letter, the applicant’s prospective employer in Thailand is required to submit Form WP3 at the Office of Foreign Workers Administration, Department of Employment, Ministry of Labour Tel. 02-2452745, or at the Provincial Employment Office in his or her respective province. More information is available at www.doe.go.th/workpermit/index.html

- Copy of Work Permit issued by the Ministry of Labour and alien income tax or Por Ngor Dor 91 (only in the case where applicant has previously worked in Thailand).

- Corporate documents of hiring company in Thailand such as:

1) business registration and business license

and so on.So there is a connection visa with WP. You cancelled your WP, infact meaning you cancelled your visa. Guess then you are very lucky to get in.

Despite your letters and other issues.

I was once married to a foreigner and just missed 1 stupid paper, so immigration (holland) said deliver paper or she had to get back, Race against clock to make it work.

And now thousands of people come in without any papers and they are taken care for.

All depends on time, officers and what ever bs

Yeah I know, and that is exactly my gripe. So many people here doing the wrong thing... I'm trying to do everything right and get stung. Haven't had a single overstay here in 8 years... nor worked a single day here without a valid WP. Actually right now I'm sitting in my room waiting for my new WP to arrive instead of breaking the law and working. There was never any evidence that I was working illegally as some have said. There was only evidence that I had worked before... but legally. And a truckload of other documents explaining the perfectly logical reasons why a new WP had not yet been recieved... all written in Thai... and all ready to be backed up and confirmed with a quick phone call from Immigration. They were not interested in doing any of that. They didnt even look for the WP3... they only looked at the company registration paper and the copy of my old WP. The rest of the time they were looking through my passport and apparently had a problem with me leaving the country every 90 days... even though I have to by law. Go figure.

[Alration]

"What the hell is going on?...Immigration have taken the view unless a work permit is produced, they will not be allowing entry anymore even on a valid on Non Imm B"

This statement of yours is incorrect. What happened is that the IO nearly didn't allow you in because your WP had been cancelled. This is not happening to everyone, only you in this instance, and the IO's action suspecting that you may work illegally was entirely justified.

Don't get too hot under the collar though, you did get stamped in, under dubious circumstances, so you were lucky. I wouldn't try it again though if I were you.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Alration

[Joy888]

Another example of immigration being complained about for doing their job!

Anyone can be stopped and interviewed about their activities and need to satisfy any suspicions the IO might have. A cancelled WP and no evidence of new application is definitely going to get the alarm bells ringing.

I got stopped at SUV earlier in the year...give the plod my PP looks at and asks " do you work in Thailand ?.....answer yes you know i do, the company name is written above my re-entry permit....you want to see my WP ?...no not nessecary... stamp.... stamp

I think the OP volunteered too much information initally which raised more questions....PP/Visa over the counter say nothing....do you work here ?....no but currently i am setting up a business in Thailand thats why i have the B visa....can i call my lawyer for you ?

Yep basically I was just being honest. The conversation didn't exactly go like that. He asked a question, I answered, he had a follow up question, I answered. Eventually he said he won't let me in without a WP... so I offered the company documents and letter from lawyer to him. He had 2 choices... believe the documents to be true. O not believe them. And not bother to call anybody to confirm. He chose the latter.

[Alration]

...nonsense...you own a company....and you had more than enough paperwork...including a lawyer's letter...

..way out of line....

He was way out of line, indeed, and the IO was quite right to query his situation.

[manarak]

To add some info, I just got in at the end of September on a non-B extension, no problems at all, no need to show work permit (but I do have a valid WP).

Edited October 22, 2015 by manarak

[Alration]

Yeah I know, and that is exactly my gripe. So many people here doing the wrong thing... I'm trying to do everything right and get stung. Haven't had a single overstay here in 8 years... nor worked a single day here without a valid WP. Actually right now I'm sitting in my room waiting for my new WP to arrive instead of breaking the law and working. There was never any evidence that I was working illegally as some have said. There was only evidence that I had worked before... but legally. And a truckload of other documents explaining the perfectly logical reasons why a new WP had not yet been recieved... all written in Thai... and all ready to be backed up and confirmed with a quick phone call from Immigration. They were not interested in doing any of that. They didnt even look for the WP3... they only looked at the company registration paper and the copy of my old WP. The rest of the time they were looking through my passport and apparently had a problem with me leaving the country every 90 days... even though I have to by law. Go figure.

You're over-reacting, you did not "get stung", the IO stamped you in. And you got in by the skin of your teeth, you should be very grateful.

There may not have been evidence that you were working but there certainly was evidence that you could have intended to work illegally. I wonder if you'd have been sitting in your room now waiting for the new WP if you hadn't created this issue for yourself and sailed through Immigration with no problem? I'm sure you would even though most people wouldn't have been.

It wouldn't have mattered if you had produced 100 truckloads documents explaining "the perfectly logical reasons why a new WP had not yet been recieved [sic]", the point was you didn't have a WP. That was the issue. And to expect an IO at the airport, dealing with hundreds of other passengers whose documents were straightforward, to start making enquiries to your legal team is very naive.

[technologybytes]

What an absurd thread. The headline is immigration demanding a work permit and when people offer sensible advice you accuse them of being blind and point out that you have a work permit.

A cancelled work permit is not valid, no valid work permit = questions from immigration officer. Stop complaining, they let you in didn't they !