Enormous Shakeup Of Visa And Immigration Rules

[Ijustwannateach]

Just a point of order: in general, this forum is written in both upper and lower case. Navajo, please use mixed cases for ease of reading.

[Firefan]

Cutter; main point was that the visarunners PROBABLY do not have to leave as costs for them to stay have only increased 5-10k/year due to cheap Airasia flights and maybe also 3 month tourist visas issued rather than 2 months+1 1 mth extension. CHeers!

Well, most if not all of the newer, fancier condos fall in one of the following three groups:

Some were finished before April 2004, therefore allowing 100% foreign ownership.

Some are owned by 49% foreigners and 51% "Thai companies"

Some are owned by rich Thais as a means of speculation as well as rental purposes.

I know quite a few Condo buildings in Pattaya, but hardly see any Thai family or Single living there!

Sunny

Nothing happened in April of 2004?????????

There are no condos associations that are 100% foreign owned, you are misinformed, foreigners can not own property, with the exception of BOI sponsored companies.

To everyone else here that thinks you can't own a 100% of a company as a foreigner, you people are all misinformed also, Americans can own 100% of a company in Thailand, and I know dozens of them that do.

I was going to buy a condo 6 months ago, I am so glad I didn't. The mid range to high end condo business is going in the gutter if this crap continues.

The low to mid range Bangkok condos should be ok.

Someone made the point that visa runners don’t usually own condos anyways, so it won't make much of a difference to the market. What they failed to point out is that they do rent condos, and if there are less renters, then that means the Thai owners that speculated on those condos for rental purposes will be forced to sell. This will especially hold true in Thailand where it is well know that even the super wealthy Thais over leverage themselves all the time. Look at '97 even the guys that were running the major banks made stupid investments and over leveraged their banks.

If I owned a condo or house now that wasn't in Bangkok I would be looking to unload it now, even if I had to take a 15% loss.

[doolally]

visa laws are visa laws

the bugger is thaksin and evry other thai can own land or a business in a western, the ones we come from and that is not reciprocated here

[jbowman1993]

A country and its citizens have the right to determine their own laws. As visitors, we have a choice, accept the laws, and work within them, or go to another country that is more favorable to our situation.

The arguement that the vsa's discriminate against poor people doesn't hold water. The US requires that you show a sufficient amount in the bank, just to get a tourist visa (if you are Thai). Thailand is a poor country with a lot of poverty stricken citizens. It's first concern should be to those citizens. How they choose to do that is their business.

It is a sad cliche on this forum that if you don't like the country, you need to leave, but in instances like this, perhaps it will prove to be many people's only choice. A country has the right to control the people living within it's borders.

And for those who always bring up the strict investment regulations, they must remember. Thai people wish to save the country's land for Thai people. If those regulations were ever lifted, the Saudi's and the Japanese would probably own half the country in under a year.

My dad always taught me that when you are a guest in another person's house, you ask permission before getting a beer out of the refridgerator. We, those of us living here are guests. I would encourage us to live quietly and peacefully. Let our "Jai rohn" tempers settle, and be pragmatic about the situation.

My 2 satang

Peace

[mobiryder]

hey cheap charlies! i for one, go back to my home country on holiday a few times a year and i just get my visas there and will continue to do it this way... if you can't afford to go to a non-border country once every 90 days then you probably should'nt be living in a foreign country, eh?

[tropo]

I went to my local Visa shop last week, and he showed me a copy of a double-entry tourist visa, which one of his customers obtained from Phnom Penh (Cambodia) 2 weeks earlier. He has assured me that I will be able to obtain a double entry tourist Visa from there?

Has anyone else got any info on this? I dont want to get all the way there and then be turned away with just a 90 day tourist visa as id rather go to Penang if thats the case..

Thanks

I asked my visa agent the same question yesterday as a few weeks ago he told me about a double entry tourist visa obtained in Phnom Penh.

No, they are no longer available. They are history.

Forget about double entry tourist visas from any Consulate or Embassy in Asia. We are told that MAYBE they can be obtained in your country of origin.

[phuketrichard]

Actually - there are some very successful and very wealthy ex-pats who have become Thai citizens.

2 examples: William (Bill) Heinike (check spelling) and the guy who owns the franchise for Johnnie Walker imports and a few other foreign drink brandnames.

Both are self made multi-millionaires - yes, very much the exception, but no the point - they are now Thai citizens - and if you want a few more examples, there are quite a few more - both super rich and just averagely rich, or middle income - and even downright poor, like some of the long serving Catholic priests and other religous.

But Navajo's point is valid - what are the advantages to Thai citizenship - very few, unles in are in a position like the above mentioned 2 guys who run large national businesses and have the eqivilant of millions & milllions of dollars tied up in the Thai economy.

There are otherwise none, and to adopt Thai citizenship simply to save on Visa runs is firstly, not required because you can become a Permanent Resident, and seocndly, is the wrong motive (in my opinion).

You ask;

what are the advantages??? well how about buying land and OWNING it in your name? Setting up a thai company? what with all the new nomine rullings coming into effect it could be a very good move to become a thai citizen. Being able to come and go as you please? A good freind of mine here in Phuket is applying for his citizenship and although it is not easy he will surley get it along with his ozy wife and 4 kids. He is not rich but a working stiff. Just wants to stay and be treated like he belngs (he will never really belong but).

For me its not worth the price you have to pay. I am not going to swear alegience to any foreign power no matter how much i like it here.

[chas39]

On the subject of Retirement Visa:

Can we just confirm that a letter of Guarantee for the pension from the Embassey and the fact that it meets or is above the 65000 bht criteria will suffice ie money not needed in Thai Bank Account as mine is paid into a UK bank and I draw as I need it ?

Secondly each year I get a new letter of guarantee from the British Consulate even though my Pension is index linked and the Gross is different each year.

Why is original letter of guarantee not excepted each year

macb

I have a similar question, but assume it will be as before and I do not pay the 65.000 into a Thai bank account. I have recentley been keeping my atm receipts to show, if asked, that I am bringing the money into the country.

On your second point about the Embassy's letter of confirmation of your income, I was recently told by Pattaya Immigration that the original letter will do, until you change your passport.

[tropo]

hey cheap charlies! i for one, go back to my home country on holiday a few times a year and i just get my visas there and will continue to do it this way... if you can't afford to go to a non-border country once every 90 days then you probably should'nt be living in a foreign country, eh?

Is this an information post? Or did you just wish to inform other members that you have money to burn?

There are many reasons why people choose not to fly back to their home countries every 90 days.

Wake up!

Why would a person want to waste thousands of dollars flying back to Europe, or the US just to get a 90 day visa. Whether the person can afford to do so or not is irrelevant. Unless the long trip is necessary, it would be a total waste of time and money. Having money does not mean one must waste it.

[Twin]

Noel said:

That said, there may well of course be some truth in their sensationalistic screed, but I really do doubt that Retirees extending their Non-Immigrant ‘O’ visas for the umpteenth time will be told that they are no longer eligible because they have not maintained a balance in excess of 800,000 Baht three months prior to their annual renewal.

Of course, it might well be the case for first time applicants, as that a least would make some sort of sense.

It will be interesting to read firsthand accounts of actual experiences over the coming weeks…

Noel, I will be going for my 3rd retierment visa extension Tuesday morning.

I have always used the B800,000 route in the past.

In October, 2005 I renewed with B945,000 in my account.

By April, 2006, my balance was down to B 100,000, so I wired over another B900,000.

Last week, I was down to a small balance again and wired over another B950,000 to be ready for my renewal.

I will be very surprised if they give me a hard time about this new regulation.

On the other hand, who knows?

A full trip report will be posted tomorrow afternoon.

Twin

Edited October 2, 2006 by Twin

[nullx8]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

TRUE !

[mobiryder]

hey cheap charlies! i for one, go back to my home country on holiday a few times a year and i just get my visas there and will continue to do it this way... if you can't afford to go to a non-border country once every 90 days then you probably should'nt be living in a foreign country, eh?

Is this an information post? Or did you just wish to inform other members that you have money to burn?

There are many reasons why people choose not to fly back to their home countries every 90 days.

Wake up!

Why would a person want to waste thousands of dollars flying back to Europe, or the US just to get a 90 day visa. Whether the person can afford to do so or not is irrelevant. Unless the long trip is necessary, it would be a total waste of time and money. Having money does not mean one must waste it.

you only have to go back to your home country once, to get the visa, good for a year... u just gotta leave every 90 days... normally i go to a nonborder country every couple of months or so, like HK or to europe....

what im trying to point out is that the cheap charlies are the ones mainly affected... and i say again, if you can't afford to live here, haul ass!

[Noel]

By the way -- I get interest on my money in UK banks and only bring it here to satisfy immigration then back to UK -- Thai banks don't give interest and so we are robbed even more.

You clearly are mistaken.

Thai banks do pay interest for accounts held by foreigners and the tax at source is only 15%, a tad less than UK methinks...

[Ned]

My retirement visa has to be renewed Dec 3. As of 3rd September 2006 ie 3 months before renewal date, the balance was 240,000.....well short of the 800K. I don't expect to be refused another 12 months this time but next year I can see them enforcing the new rule ie 800,000 in the bank on Sept 3, 2007. It means I will need enough extra in the account to live those 3 months. It looks like a way to increase the amount required by stealth. Very clever indeed....800K plus what you need for 3 months. Ah well.....just got to follow the rules and come up with the extas and no problem. .......just as long as I get another 12 months in two months time.

[tropo]

what im trying to point out is that the cheap charlies are the ones mainly affected... and i say again, if you can't afford to live here, haul ass!

You totally miss the point. Not wanting to pay thousands of dollars for a round ticket to Europe or USA does not make one a "cheap charlie". There is no point going on a long, expensive journy even once a year if the same result can be achieve through a short hop to Penang for example. If you have a need to travel back home once a year, then fine, you have a need... maybe to see your family.

There is no logic to your post. A person that cannot afford to live in Thailand, can definitely not afford to live in the USA or Europe. Did you not notice that the cost of living in Asia is but a fraction of that back at home?

[Chang_paarp]

visa laws are visa laws

the bugger is thaksin and evry other thai can own land or a business in a western, the ones we come from and that is not reciprocated here

1. There are the laws as written, passed by the government of the day and published.
   
2. There are the decrees and regulations, that are created by the mandarins in the public sector and usually published, that are supposed to be supplement to the laws and to guide how they are to be interpreted by the officers in the field.
   
3. There the officers in the field who inconsistently and unilaterally interprete 1 & 2
   

It is the inconsistency and uncertainty that this creates that causes heartache for most who post here. Your other point is one of the few rules they consistently enforce.

[Naam]

"The old regulation, however, that you must produce an annual medical certificate for this visa has been withdrawn."

that settles favourable the case of the 81 year old german citizen (discussed here) who -after residing 19 years in Thailand- was refused a renewal of his status due to poor health reasons. that discussion made me sit up and rethink my situation. being 63 years old, having investing a quarter million dollars in my property and planning to spend my remaining years in Thailand seemed to have been a huge mistake... until today.

today i say "chok dee" to those who had the brilliant and fair idea to do away with the medical certificate!

[Pakboong]

On the subject of Retirement Visa:

Can we just confirm that a letter of Guarantee for the pension from the Embassey and the fact that it meets or is above the 65000 bht criteria will suffice ie money not needed in Thai Bank Account as mine is paid into a UK bank and I draw as I need it ?

Secondly each year I get a new letter of guarantee from the British Consulate even though my Pension is index linked and the Gross is different each year.

Why is original letter of guarantee not excepted each year

macb

I have a similar question, but assume it will be as before and I do not pay the 65.000 into a Thai bank account. I have recentley been keeping my atm receipts to show, if asked, that I am bringing the money into the country.

On your second point about the Embassy's letter of confirmation of your income, I was recently told by Pattaya Immigration that the original letter will do, until you change your passport.

I doubt your ATM receipts will be any good. You only need the letter from your embassy stating your monthy income. If it is over 65,000, you need only show a Thai Bank book to indicate that you do in have an account. If you do not make the 65,000 per month, you must multiply whatever you get by 12 and add the difference of what you make per month to your bank account that totals $800,000 for a year.

If your letter states you make 40,000 per month you need to put 12x25,000 or 300,000 into your Thai bank account before you apply for your visa extension. There is talk that the money needs now to be in the bank for 3 months prior so you need to take that into consideration and plan ahead.

[chhuncorp]

I look forward to the day, when some has the balls, to take the immigration department to the International Court in the Hague, for seperating a man from his legally wedded wife!

Good luck with that.. But be sure to bring a case against virtually every country in the world when you do it..

You don't get an automatic right to live in any country just because you are married to someone..

This has been the case since the middle ages almost.

For those that are genuine there will be no problem. For those that are scamming expect to get caught out.

It's the same the world over.

Get a lawyer. Do the paperwork. Pay the fees, and everything will be fine.

Sit and whinge and moan and criticize and you can always expect your worst nightmares to come true.

I am genuinely married and have been for five and half years. The point here is that the Thai system, has no form of redress for mistakes, moreover after being married for a certain period of time, one should not have to be reliant on annual renewals, but be given some form of permanent residency, providing all the paper work and the circumstances are kosher! But that is not the case, I know someone who has been married here for 27 years and still has to go through the ridiculous process of annual renewal. If his wife had gone to the UK with him, should could have been a prominient local politician or even an MP by now! But here your just a foreigner!

i knew a friend he got resident book just he paid tax of workpertmit 3year only. and now he finding an officer to gurrantee him to apply thai ID card.

[Naam]

correction: " having investing a quarter million dollars"

should read "having invested three quarters of a million dollars!"

[Macx]

So, one can still lives in Thailand year-round on tourist visas--just fly to Singapore, Penang, HCM, your home country, or wherever and get the 90 day tourist visa (60+30 extension) at a Thai consulate/embassy. Do it 4 times per year and consider it a holiday

Sounds like the limit of 180days/year applies to visa upon arrival and not "real" tourist visa.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

[Pakboong]

On the subject of Retirement Visa:

Can we just confirm that a letter of Guarantee for the pension from the Embassey and the fact that it meets or is above the 65000 bht criteria will suffice ie money not needed in Thai Bank Account as mine is paid into a UK bank and I draw as I need it ?

Secondly each year I get a new letter of guarantee from the British Consulate even though my Pension is index linked and the Gross is different each year.

Why is original letter of guarantee not excepted each year

macb

I have used the same original letter for the past 3 years. Immigration keeps the copy and returns the original to me.

[percy2]

Tourist Visa - Singapore (before OCT 1)

Having just been on 19 September to Singapore for a 60 day Tourist visa I noticed that the officials had written a comment by hand on the full page visa stamp.

It states that since June I had been getting my stamp in Cambodia, at the border. This seems to be some form of record keeping as to how many VOA i had or at least some form of check and since it was prior to OCT 1 it makes it unclear if previous stamps are counted or if everything begins on OCT 1....

/ff

I think this is the most interesting post in this thread.

I'm surprised there has been no comments on it.

Edit. Hopefully to add original attachement.

Edited October 2, 2006 by percy2

[Kwai Yai]

I would like to know why all the people living in thailand on a so called permanent basis do not become a citizen of Thailand and saves themselve the hazzle of forever obtaining vizas

Joking I hope, there are hundreds of thousands of people born in Thailand who do not qualify for Thai citizenship, they are called Karens, Akha, Lisu, Lahu etc. Their families may have lived here for 50 yearss but they are not THAI and neither is a farang. Welcome to the reality.

[girlx]

ok see if anyone can help me out with this. i got a triple entry tourist visa (60 days per entry) from penang on august 6th or so. it seems like as of october 1 this would be changed to 90 days per entry and would eliminate the necessity for the extension. but since i got my visa before october 1, this friday (the 6th) my first 60 days is up, and i was planning to go to samui and extend that for the usual 30 days at the immigration office. can i still get this extension? (do i need it?) if i can not get the extension, i will probably need to leave the country and come back in... will probably go to ranong or poipet. i have lots of cambodian stamps in my passport, but they are just the border runs to renew another entry of 60 days (for past multi- entry visas) for the past year or two. will they be likely to let me back in for my 2nd set of 60 (or 90?) days? or will i need to return to my home country? ack! i am not in a position to run back to the US right now...

Edited October 2, 2006 by girlx

[Noel]

i knew a friend he got resident book just he paid tax of workpertmit 3year only. and now he finding an officer to gurrantee him to apply thai ID card.

I don't suppose you would be prepared to give the name and office address of the officer that your 'friend' is getting favours from?

Nah, thought not...

[Meg_2003]

I went to my local Visa shop last week, and he showed me a copy of a double-entry tourist visa, which one of his customers obtained from Phnom Penh (Cambodia) 2 weeks earlier. He has assured me that I will be able to obtain a double entry tourist Visa from there?

Has anyone else got any info on this? I dont want to get all the way there and then be turned away with just a 90 day tourist visa as id rather go to Penang if thats the case..

Thanks

I asked my visa agent the same question yesterday as a few weeks ago he told me about a double entry tourist visa obtained in Phnom Penh.

No, they are no longer available. They are history.

Forget about double entry tourist visas from any Consulate or Embassy in Asia. We are told that MAYBE they can be obtained in your country of origin.

Thankyou, Tropo for your help..

So its between Phnom Penh and Penang for a 90 day visa... Been to Penang before and it wasnt too bad but fancied Phnom Penh this time..... Wheres best?

[Pakboong]

So, one can still lives in Thailand year-round on tourist visas--just fly to Singapore, Penang, HCM, your home country, or wherever and get the 90 day tourist visa (60+30 extension) at a Thai consulate/embassy. Do it 4 times per year and consider it a holiday

Sounds like the limit of 180days/year applies to visa upon arrival and not "real" tourist visa.

Please correct me if I'm wrong

It is possible that you could be refused a tourist visa based upon trying to "live" in Thailand on tourist visas. Why would anyone take that chance? It would be very difficult to plan ahead. Perhaps if you owned nothing and could clear out of here in 7days. 7 days is what they give you if your visa is refused.

[rexall]

"today i say "chok dee" to those who had the brilliant and fair idea to do away with the medical certificate!

Mon 02 Oct 06, 8:15 p.m.

My mind must be full of mush today, I can't tell who is being serious and who isn't.

What medical certificate? You mean the one for 50 baht that you get a the corner "doc in the box"? The one where Dr. says, "Are you OK?" You say, "Yeah." Then he gives you your certificate. You mean that certificate??? Boy am I ever glad that terrible burden has been lifted!

Edited October 2, 2006 by rexall

[navajo]

MARRIAGE VISAS: THE LONG TERM COSTS OF GETTING MARRIED TO A THAI LADY JUST TO STAY HERE OUT WEIGH THE BENEFITS. TO PEOPLE FROM THE WEST WHO HAVE BEEN MARRIED AND DIVORCED ONCE OR TWICE AND MAYBE MORE, NEED TO REALISE NOTHING NOTHING REALLY CHANGES EXCEPT THE PICTURE ON THE WALL.

THE NEXT TIME SOME THAI GAL HERE TAKES YOU UP COUNTRY TO MEET HER PARENT'S, AND HER PARENT'S ASK YOU HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE THEM TO MARRY THEIR DAUGHTER, YOUR RESPONSE SHOULD BE THE FOLLOWING: ITS NOT HOW MUCH MONEY I AM GOING TO GIVE YOU TO MARRY YOUR DAUGHTER, BUT RATHER HOW MUCH MONEY YOU ARE GOING TO GIVE ME TO TAKE HER OFF YOUR HANDS."