PM Prayuth to decide on tough new penalties for foreigners who overstay

[h90]

I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.

Well I am against prison...it only costs money....kick them out is good enough.

[flyingdoc]

Maybe the new Visa starting in November will help legitimate longer term stayers?

[HerbalEd]

good overstayers are nothing but trouble for the rest of us who abide by the rules, it's not hard.

Are bad overstayers nothing but trouble also?

Edited October 26, 2015 by HerbalEd

[h90]

I mostly agree with all. But what about those who have a wonderful and beautiful child, a great wife who unfortunately spent most of his money to buy that house, shop, cattle, land, car, motorbikes, the 2nd house for mom and dad, the tractor, the pig farm, the rice land and left himself short? Waiting another couple of years for his retirement money to kick in. This person is desperate. Bad choices are made. Every civilized country allows Thai to become citizens. Yes, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly exist. My humble opinion is, allow foreigners citizenship. Who bought everything? I see the goal of Thailand is to prey on those who spend their life savings, just to not allow them equal rights. Because if equal rights were given, corruption would stop. All the immigration laws do is subtract not add to democracy.

I actually don't like that my country gives citizenship to everyone who stays there a few years......No problems with giving it to Chinese, Thais, British, Russians....but there are a few nationality which don't fit in well. So I think Thailand is wise to be more carefully on that.

[Bernard Flint]

I mostly agree with all. But what about those who have a wonderful and beautiful child, a great wife who unfortunately spent most of his money to buy that house, shop, cattle, land, car, motorbikes, the 2nd house for mom and dad, the tractor, the pig farm, the rice land and left himself short? Waiting another couple of years for his retirement money to kick in. This person is desperate. Bad choices are made. Every civilized country allows Thai to become citizens. Yes, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly exist. My humble opinion is, allow foreigners citizenship. Who bought everything? I see the goal of Thailand is to prey on those who spend their life savings, just to not allow them equal rights. Because if equal rights were given, corruption would stop. All the immigration laws do is subtract not add to democracy.

WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE MANURE

[F4UCorsair]

Hmmm there are a number of reasons a person over stay's in a country and not all are simply people trying one on.

So in case of illness or accident as often happens and still have the 20,000 baht fine, now they want to have a bigger crack,

Welcome too LOS..............

I my self just forgot my 90 day check in, normally on the calendar but this time no'p, paid the fine all good,

not a problem..immigration will extend visa with letter from dr. or hospital . they are very considerate in these matters. .

Of course they are, in spite of some accusing the immigration authorities of petty conduct.

Other than sickness, or maybe a few hugely extenuating circumstances, none of which come immediately to mind, there is no reason for overstaying, and those showing contempt for the host country's laws should be dealt with very harshly.

[HerbalEd]

Good, many ppl overstay thinking its fine...I will never get caught etc...GET RID

Why is the army general now controling immigration ? Did anyone thing that ?

I Don't thing I Think.

Then think about an apostrophe.

[NoshowJones]

I still believe the process could be simplified. Just charge us a flat sum per day or month and all will be good. Something like 200 baht, stay as long as you like without visa....

Simplification has never been in the Thai mentality for anything, and never will. It's in the genes.

[HerbalEd]

I have always been legal. However for those who have bent the rules and overstayed, the government should give notice of the change and set a date in future when the new rules come into effect. This will allow the over stayers to get their houses in order before the date. That is leave and re-enter with the correct visa, etc.

I agree. Before the new rules kick in, there should be an announced period of amnesty (e.g., 60 days) whereby overstayers could turn themselves in with no penalty .... or perhaps those who have grossly overstayed would be required to leave country and only come back with a valid visa.

I'm for a tightening of immigration requirements in Thailand, but it should be a two-way street. The Thai government needs get creative and offer better options for foreigners to enter Thailand. The proposed new 6-month, multi-entry tourist visa is a good start ... although a year-long expat visa would be even better. Otherwise, the government is shooting themselves in the foot by driving away long-stay tourists/expats and the money they spend.

[HerbalEd]

there are many pepole that are overstaying there visa's but spend tons of Money in the country.

what do Thailand loose if somebody overtstay? NOTHING..

time to make it easier for those under 50 years to stay here longer without much hassle. ed visa to much bla bla bla

Given that the vast majority of overstayers are illegal Asian workers, Thai's actually lose a lot.

[meatboy]

how about a LITTLE leaway for those like myself that has NEVER done anything illegal here in 30yrs. we are treated the same as someone on PROBATION.

[SpokaneAl]

I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.

Prison? For overstaying in a country? I wonder what you would recommend for serious crimes. Edited October 26, 2015 by SpokaneAl

[Soutpeel]

I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.

Prison? For overstaying in a country? I wonder what your would recommend for serious crimes.

I suggest you read post 175 then....

[HerbalEd]

good overstayers are nothing but trouble for the rest of us who abide by the rules, it's not hard.

Please explain how a person overstaying affects you in any way at all. Total rubbish.

Law breaking overstayers give a poor image of tourists/expats which shines poorly on law abiding tourists/expats. Also, chronic overstayers have created a troubled immigrations climate in Thailand and makes it harder for all of us.

I know many think it's OK to break the law ... they think "it's not really that bad, and those who think it is are a--holes" ... but these people should grow up or move on.

[Vandadavid]

Tuff

They just changed the laws

They have trouble sticking to decossions

[elviajero]

Yes I agree that a 1 year ban for a 1 day overstay is extreme but I guess they are looking for a strong deterrent.

90 days, not 1 day:

> * Overstay of more than 90 days = barred from re-entering Thailand for one year.

I think the most likely effect of a tightening of the rules and stronger punishments is that fewer expats/retirees at the lower end of the spectrum will just choose to overstay, knowing that overstaying is a lot cheaper than extensions and visa runs, over a period of a couple years. That's a situation (and mindset) that just needs fixing: the overstay punishment is currently broken. Maybe there was a time that 20,000 baht meant something, but that was quite a while ago.

It's only 90 days if you give yourself up at the border. Based on the proposed rules if you are arrested with a 1 day overstay you could be banned for 1 year.

The immigration database knows who is on overstay at anytime so they could easily go after people that choose to overstay if they wanted to.

The 20k was set 30 odd years ago so yes it's not the deterrent it would have been.

[gchurch259]

No big deal, Get a proper Visa, pay the fees, renew as required every year, do the 90 day report. Stay legal or get the hell out of Thailand.

Seems simple to me, been here 12 years and have done it proper.

[HerbalEd]

The penalties are not harsh enough ! But it is about time. Thousands of dodgy foreigners are crapping in their pants right now. GOOD!

And you mr Petchabun Man,(and all the other upstanding self righteous cry babies on this site), are living under the illusion that your being able to stay here is a sure thing.We will see what measures the army introduces next,they definitely do not like foreigners.

Who's the "self righteous cry baby" here? Maybe they "definitely do not like" you.

[Lampang2]

TR = 1/4 year.

METV = 1/2 year

O, OA etc = 1 year+

TE = 5 years.

Plenty of options for everyone.

[MobileContent]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​

Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

I would never apply a job in a company that have just one HR staff at the age of 23 years. Almost any established company, hotel or tour operator have at least a HR Manager in the age of 40 years that knows the immigration rules very well. Lets be serious the documents needed for a WP or a None-B single entry are straight forward and an extension of stay for employment is always easy to get as long the company in question is very well established with a proper board of directors, yearly revenues and taxes paid, etc.

[Thaidream]

Everyone has different ideas and different takes on this situation. I would hope that no rash decision is made like the one involving alcohol sales. The most rationale decision is to either leave the situation alone for the time being and work with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs on the Visa issuance policy and how that will be interwoven with the Immigration Department policy. If they must make an overstay change- it should be announced and phased in over 1-2 years as one poster mentioned. Time to get legal or the penalties apply. This would give people who have issues a nice period of time to work them out. There is no real rush to this unless there is a hidden agenda or to show action due to the bombing loss of face. In either case- the result will be seen as anti foreigner and inhibit investment.

[HerbalEd]

if the new laws will make a difference to the type of people we let into the country then I am in favour we do need to sort out the wheat from the chaff there are far too many undesirables here and they need to be sorted .

Aha! So all who are having a valid visa are good people? And, all who are in overstay are per definition bad people? My god, how narrow sighted can one be?

How about: Those people who are overstaying their visas by months and even years are knowingly and purposely breaking Thai immigration law .... and in many countries (probably your's included) they would be imprisoned for doing such.

[MobileContent]

I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.

Prison? For overstaying in a country? I wonder what you would recommend for serious crimes.

Thailand might follow the Malaysian Singapore, Indonesia and Brunei model and if anyone is unable to pay the fine then the fine will be converted to prison. We should also remember that they are hundreds of Thais imprisoned in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia for overstay.

Malaysia: 2 Years overstay is 2 years prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time. Malaysia only permits overstay up to 7 days or in some cases 30 days. Once you are over 30 days you will have a big problem.

Singapore: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be paid will increase the prison time.

Brunei: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time.

All three countries will ban you from entering the country for 5-10 years.

Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia have no ceiling on the fine which means as longer you stay as more you have to cough up.

Why should Thailand be left behind.

[HerbalEd]

Thought over stayers were a vital source of revenue, and those people were applauded, where those who did constructive things were considered dodgy.

Why not open the country up for foreign entrepreneurs ?

There is a Thai Elite visa for entrepreneurs or you can start a business and get a work permit.

And there is a big difference between an entrepreneur and a dead broke wannabe IM'er, on those internet marketing forums they talk about how they survive at 500 dollars a month in Chiang Mai lol, is that you're intepretation of entrepreneur perhaps? That would definitely explain those people who can't afford the 20k fine or a plane ticket as it often only takes one Google update to wipe their whole income, in other words a bunch of amateurs. In case you feel addressed by this, there's a new Penguin update coming up, very soon!!!

I'm considering the Thai Elite myself, just not sure yet as I'm also considering to live 6 months in my own country and 6 months in Thailand so I wouldn't need Thai Elite for that, tourist visa would be sufficient for that purpose, ok not completely legal if I work here but it's not like I take any cheese from Thailand as all income is foreign.

Back to the entrepreneur part again, Thailand is quite generous with this Thai Elite visa as it's a no questions asked thing and you can do whatever you want for only 8k baht/month, still have to meet the first entrepreneur that can't afford 200 euro/mo for this Thai Elite program. I do consider 400 euro/mo a bit expensive, just to live in a country, which would be my case if I decided to stay only 6 months a year here so yes I'd be breaking some rules but I do spend a lot here so the economy will benefit one way or another, if it's only increasing spending power of Thai nationals.

The Thai Elite Visa has absolutely nothing to do with being an entrepreneur, or not. It has to do with paying the fee.

[connda]

What ever happened to running this though the Thai Parliament. Oh never-mind. The answer is obvious, but can not be discussed.

Xenophobia and jingoism is raising it's ugly head. Watch for the purge.

[greenchair]

Hmmm there are a number of reasons a person over stay's in a country and not all are simply people trying one on.

So in case of illness or accident as often happens and still have the 20,000 baht fine, now they want to have a bigger crack,

Welcome too LOS..............

I my self just forgot my 90 day check in, normally on the calendar but this time no'p, paid the fine all good,

Are you aware that the majority of over stayers are Asian, specifically Cambodian and Burmese workers? "European"s" represent a small number of these cases.

The cases you refer to are minimal because illness and accident caused delays are relatively rare. There is a procedure in place to address the issue. I cannot recall any cases where someone who was hospitalized and where the forms were submitted attesting to the illness, was penalized. You forgot your visa. Well, that's your issue isn't it? If you forget to pay your taxes or renew your driver's license in Australia, what do you expect will happen? As a reasonable chap, you understand the consequences, just as you should understand that there are consequences to screwing around with Thailand's immigration laws. The laws obviously need to be tightened up because of the extensive number of violations.

There are hundreds of foreigners here that have wives and children. They cannot get workpermits as they are not degreed up. They do not have 400,000 baht floating around in the bank. They usually support an entire thai family, including parents on around 30,000 baht per month. They cannot afford to do the visa runs at 2 or 3 thousand baht a month. I have met many in this situation. They are not criminals, boose heads, or here for sex tourism. Not only foreigner will suffer from this, but many thai as well. Look what happened in the last purge. All the Russians went home. They had to think many months on how to get them back. Hookers n all.

All those 9 thousand people spend money, in the cheap guest houses, eating street food, in the taxis, and at a guess maybe half are supporting thai families. The rich only think about I want, I want, I want, without a care for the poor that their decisions will effect.

[HerbalEd]

I still believe the process could be simplified. Just charge us a flat sum per day or month and all will be good. Something like 200 baht, stay as long as you like without visa....

Your wish has already been granted. You can stay for 5 years if you pay 274b a day. It's called a PE visa and for most people it's very simple to obtain.

The only catch is you have to pay 5 years in advance, which costs 500,000b.

I save way more than 274B/day by living in Thailand, so the PE Visa (aka Thai Elite Visa) is a great deal for me.

After 30-plus years of coming in and out of Thailand hundreds of times, having many 30-day entry permits, many multiple-entry visas, way too many border runs, lots of extensions, hours & hours of waiting in immigration offices, and a few minor overstays, I am sooooo glad those days are over.

[DanceAllNight]

Good!

When stay in a country as a foreigner, it is your obligation to know the visa rules. Follow them, even if they're a pain, and you'll be fine and legal. Don't follow the visa guidelines and overstay, then pay the price. It is simple. Don't like it, don't overstay. Don't like it, don't come here.

People who break the rules make it much harder for the ones that stay within the rules. Don't complain, just don't do it.

[Soutpeel]

Hmmm there are a number of reasons a person over stay's in a country and not all are simply people trying one on.

So in case of illness or accident as often happens and still have the 20,000 baht fine, now they want to have a bigger crack,

Welcome too LOS..............

I my self just forgot my 90 day check in, normally on the calendar but this time no'p, paid the fine all good,

Are you aware that the majority of over stayers are Asian, specifically Cambodian and Burmese workers? "European"s" represent a small number of these cases.

The cases you refer to are minimal because illness and accident caused delays are relatively rare. There is a procedure in place to address the issue. I cannot recall any cases where someone who was hospitalized and where the forms were submitted attesting to the illness, was penalized. You forgot your visa. Well, that's your issue isn't it? If you forget to pay your taxes or renew your driver's license in Australia, what do you expect will happen? As a reasonable chap, you understand the consequences, just as you should understand that there are consequences to screwing around with Thailand's immigration laws. The laws obviously need to be tightened up because of the extensive number of violations.

There are hundreds of foreigners here that have wives and children. They cannot get workpermits as they are not degreed up. They do not have 400,000 baht floating around in the bank. They usually support an entire thai family, including parents on around 30,000 baht per month. They cannot afford to do the visa runs at 2 or 3 thousand baht a month. I have met many in this situation. They are not criminals, boose heads, or here for sex tourism. Not only foreigner will suffer from this, but many thai as well. Look what happened in the last purge. All the Russians went home. They had to think many months on how to get them back. Hookers n all.

All those 9 thousand people spend money, in the cheap guest houses, eating street food, in the taxis, and at a guess maybe half are supporting thai families. The rich only think about I want, I want, I want, without a care for the poor that their decisions will effect.

You dont need a degree to get a WP....

So based on your ojections there it seems your suggesting Thailand should give refugees free reign as well ?

In most countries the world, its only the " rich " they want as long term stayers and it seems Thailand is heading in that direction as well.....

[Thaidream]

Greenchair's post is dead on. I too have encountered people who just want to get on with their lives. They are taking care of their families not sitting and drinking all day nor visiting the red light districts. They simply don't have much money. They are not bothering anyone except people on this board who believe because they are better and they got theirs- other people shouldn't be given a break. Frankly, people who are advocating draconian measures of huge fines, jail time and long bans are being cruel and exhibit a narcissistic attitude. Let us try to be kind to these people. Your life can change in a minute- I suggest some compassion might be in order.