Time Traveller Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The real question is why is an army general making immigration laws? Is the Thai Immigration department so incompetent that an outsider whose expertise is in killing people has better ideas about immigration than the people who've spent their entire careers within the department? Or is this buffalo soldier prime minister just looking for the weakest people to go to war with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) I have never overstayed a visa and I never will. 0.2% of westerners who overstay have no effect on my life in Thailand. Buying a house using a scheme through setting up a company and dodgy lawyers is also illegal. I think general should go after those people. It's a more serious crime :-) buying a house is a crime? wow Buying a house as a foreigner certainly is legal but not the land so if a company owned by a foreigner buys a house with land it is illegal. Foreigners can't own companies and buying a house with an Usufruct is completely legal but we veer wildly off-topic Edited October 27, 2015 by LannaGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The real question is why is an army general making immigration laws? Is the Thai Immigration department so incompetent that an outsider whose expertise is in killing people has better ideas about immigration than the people who've spent their entire careers within the department? Or is this buffalo soldier prime minister just looking for the weakest people to go to war with? It's 'crowd pleasing'. They all do it. Which speaks volumes about the amount of indoctrination of xenophobia into the Thai populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuang Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Why do you overstayed your visa..do you also forget to renew your passports...some enlightenments please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttthailand Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thailand needs to come up with a visa for younger guys to stay in this country. Many have come here and worked for a few years or met a girl or perhaps just really love the place and want to stay. As long as they follow the rules as most of us do then I see no problem with that. Regarding overstay, I can almost understand a day or two or even a month if you are sick or on the piss or for some other crazy reason. The guys who just say screw the law and stay anyway for months or years I have no pity for. It just shows a total lack of respect for the law. It also appears that a high percent of those on overstay are braking other laws, dealing drugs, working without permit, etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somo Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Just give all overstayers mandatory death penalty. That would certainly make a few of the holier-than-thou farangs on this forum happy. They'd be even happier if they could conduct the executions themselves. a-oles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.Prison? For overstaying in a country? I wonder what you would recommend for serious crimes. Thailand might follow the Malaysian Singapore, Indonesia and Brunei model and if anyone is unable to pay the fine then the fine will be converted to prison. We should also remember that they are hundreds of Thais imprisoned in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia for overstay. Malaysia: 2 Years overstay is 2 years prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time. Malaysia only permits overstay up to 7 days or in some cases 30 days. Once you are over 30 days you will have a big problem. Singapore: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be paid will increase the prison time. Brunei: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time. All three countries will ban you from entering the country for 5-10 years. Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia have no ceiling on the fine which means as longer you stay as more you have to cough up. Why should Thailand be left behind. Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia. Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport. The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban. It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochafan Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 These are not harsh penalties at all. Try overstaying in the US and see what happens. and what's your point? nobody cares what the US government thinks anymore. They've lost credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochafan Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years. why? How does it affect you so much? How would you benefit from this? Because it sounds like you're not benefiting or something right now so you are upset about things that really don't affect you...maybe you feel upset that you do everything they tell you, and some people don't...big deal...and goodie for you...that's YOUR choice. If a good person overstays, who are they hurting?...and i mean a person who is not a pedephile, or thief, or a 'real' criminal. Really...not hurting a soul. Because its done in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei etc. and the laws in Thailand are just to lax. How long have the 20k max fine been in place? 30+ years and it was never updated? If the fines and penalty are higher a lot of peoples will not overstay their visa. If your neighbor 'overstayed ' their visa, how would that affect your life? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy28303 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 About time! Although 90 days is too generous before bans kick in. Most not all on Visas have 90 days before they are considered overstays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saakura Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Because its done in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei etc. and the laws in Thailand are just to lax. How long have the 20k max fine been in place? 30+ years and it was never updated? If the fines and penalty are higher a lot of peoples will not overstay their visa. If your neighbor 'overstayed ' their visa, how would that affect your life? Seriously. So they should provide some hotline number which farangs can call and anonymously rat out on other farangs on suspected overstay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I think the overstay fine should be increased to 1000 Baht per day with a maximum fine of Baht 100,000 (100 days) and anything over 100 days should be prison and the banning from Thailand for up to 5 years.Prison? For overstaying in a country? I wonder what you would recommend for serious crimes. Thailand might follow the Malaysian Singapore, Indonesia and Brunei model and if anyone is unable to pay the fine then the fine will be converted to prison. We should also remember that they are hundreds of Thais imprisoned in Singapore, Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia for overstay. Malaysia: 2 Years overstay is 2 years prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time. Malaysia only permits overstay up to 7 days or in some cases 30 days. Once you are over 30 days you will have a big problem. Singapore: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be paid will increase the prison time. Brunei: 2 Years overstay is 6 month prison plus caning. Any fine that can't be aid will increase the prison time. All three countries will ban you from entering the country for 5-10 years. Laos, Cambodia and Indonesia have no ceiling on the fine which means as longer you stay as more you have to cough up. Why should Thailand be left behind. Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia. Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport. The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban. It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure ! The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else. If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspersfriend Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Back to basics: the original post included the quote 'the Immigration Bureau’s “Good Guys In, Bad Guys Out” operation' When are we likely to see legislation to encourage the "good guys in" aspect of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia. Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport. The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban. It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure ! The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else. If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's. Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more). Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime. However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Try overstaying in Singapore ....................... "Unlawful entry or presence in Singapore 15. — (1) A person shall not remain in Singapore after the cancellation of any permit or certificate, or after the making of a declaration under section 14(4)* or after the expiration or notification to him, in such manner as may be prescribed, of the cancellation of any pass relating to or issued to him unless he is otherwise entitled or authorised to remain in Singapore under the provisions of this Act or the regulations. (2) A person shall not remain in Singapore in contravention of section 62* (3) Any person who contravenes, without reasonable cause, this section shall be guilty of an offence and — in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period not exceeding 90 days, shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both; in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period exceeding 90 days, shall on conviction be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months and shall also, subject to sections 325(1) and 330(1) of the Criminal Procedure Code 2010, be punished with caning with not less than 3 strokes, or where by virtue of that section he is not punishable with caning, he shall, in lieu of caning, be punished with a fine not exceeding $6,000. (*Section 14(4) relates to false declarations and section 62 is a transition clause, not relevant to ordinary circumstances.)" https://twc2.org.sg/2011/08/06/fact-sheet-overstaying-by-more-than-90-days-can-lead-to-caning/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MobileContent Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia. Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport. The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban. It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure ! The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else. If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's. Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more). Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime. However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism. Draconian Laws for overstay? The laws have been very lax for the past 30 years and now Thailand is going to do a reboot. I am not Pro Prayuth but would welcome article 44 to be called for a quick implementation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak327 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) Thailand isn't left behind now. In Cambodia and Laos, overstaying your visa is nowhere near as dangerous as in Thailand. No stories of overstayers being locked up in the IDC in Cambodia. Overstaying your visa should be dealt with as a minor offence, punishable with a fine only. The reality in Thailand is that this is not the case if you not make it to the border or airport. The new rules being under consideration are even more draconian, as people that do not make it to the airport or border with a one day overstay risk deportation and a five year ban. It boggles the mind how anyone with common sense could possibly believe this to be a good measure ! The reality is that this IS Thailand and the Thais HAVE the right to make or modify laws without reference to anybody else. If you don't like or cannot cope with that fact, then the problem is yours and NOT Thailand's. Oh they certainly do (let's forget the fact how the current regime actually got into power, as it would confuse people even more). Just as I have every right to ridicule those very same laws if they don't make any sense and do not in any way ensure a punishment in line with the crime. However, I don't think that Thailand need to worry about what I think, I think they need to worry about the message these draconian laws bring to their cash cow tourism. Draconian Laws for overstay? The laws have been very lax for the past 30 years and now Thailand is going to do a reboot. I am not Pro Prayuth but would welcome article 44 to be called for a quick implementation. No the laws for overstaying in Thailand have never been lax. Yes there was a way to get out with only a fine (up until 20K baht) but only if you made it to the border or airport without being caught on overstay at random passport checks anywhere in the country. If you are caught on overstay before reaching the border, you have a high chance to be detained and deported from the country, unless you are lucky and are offered to pay tea money to stay out of the police cell and ultimately the IDC. No such worries currently exist in Cambodia any more than in Laos. Are you seriously supporting a law where some tourist would face deportation and a five year ban from the country on something so trivial as a one day overstay, just because that tourist was caught before he could reach the airport ? The airport where he would receive an overstay stamp but no fine at all for the exact same offence ? Edited October 27, 2015 by sjaak327 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Draconian Laws for overstay? The laws have been very lax for the past 30 years and now Thailand is going to do a reboot. I am not Pro Prayuth but would welcome article 44 to be called for a quick implementation. It was lax for those turning up at the airport cash in hand, but as you know well the IDC is draconian. You posted that you were there once and saw several foreigners die, one in your arms. The conditions are nothing short of human rights abuse, and it doesn't get enough media attention. Other countries have harsher laws but no deaths in detention. Common sense solution would be an uncapped fine exactly equivalent to all the visa and extension costs someone would have paid if they weren't on overstay. Zero financial incentive to overstay. Then use the extra money from fines to sort out the conditions of IDC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 About time! Although 90 days is too generous before bans kick in. Most not all on Visas have 90 days before they are considered overstays Absolute nonsense. A visa only entitles entry and determines how long you can stay. If you overstay by 1 day of any stay granted on entry with any visa you are considered to have overstayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimkok Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 I love all these 'you must obey the law' posts from the very same posters who constantly bash Thailand for it's being lawless As an aside, whether the guy sitting next to me on the number 9 bus to Nakon Nowhere is on overstay or not makes not a jot of difference to my life. So how does it your's Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimkok Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 far-right fascist government playing to the home-crowd with measures to punish foreigners when they could be reforming their visa requirements to make it easier for visitors to stay legally and allow them to properly support the local economies... Fits right in with their moralistic views on drinking, films about monks, and scantily clad motorshow dancers... what a BSThere are tourist visa's for visitors and if you have enough money to support the local economy you can get an investment visa. BS. We support the local economy without investment visa's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lampang2 Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Any decision yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 far-right fascist government playing to the home-crowd with measures to punish foreigners when they could be reforming their visa requirements to make it easier for visitors to stay legally and allow them to properly support the local economies... Fits right in with their moralistic views on drinking, films about monks, and scantily clad motorshow dancers... what a BSThere are tourist visa's for visitors and if you have enough money to support the local economy you can get an investment visa. BS. We support the local economy without investment visa's. Who is we ? Are we talking about the broke, money-less over stayer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Any decision yet? Check back next year for another announcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimkok Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 The penalties are not harsh enough ! But it is about time. Thousands of dodgy foreigners are crapping in their pants right now. GOOD! And what is a dodgy foreigner? And why do you think the penalties are not harsh enough? When i left THailand last year( 3 years overstay), how did that affect you in any way whatsoever? There are really much worse things going on in this world to worry about, really. As a foreigner, what you do in Thailand reflects on all foreigners in Thailand, even if they would rather not be associated with people like you. That is down to the Thai's narrow mindedness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elviajero Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Draconian Laws for overstay? The laws have been very lax for the past 30 years and now Thailand is going to do a reboot. I am not Pro Prayuth but would welcome article 44 to be called for a quick implementation. It was lax for those turning up at the airport cash in hand, but as you know well the IDC is draconian. You posted that you were there once and saw several foreigners die, one in your arms. The conditions are nothing short of human rights abuse, and it doesn't get enough media attention. Other countries have harsher laws but no deaths in detention. Common sense solution would be an uncapped fine exactly equivalent to all the visa and extension costs someone would have paid if they weren't on overstay. Zero financial incentive to overstay. Then use the extra money from fines to sort out the conditions of IDC. "Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem! There is no financial incentive to overstay for many already! Under your policy someone over 50 on an extension of stay could overstay for 10 years and be fined 19,000 baht, whereas the current penalty is 20,000 after 40 days. So how does your suggestion reduce the incentive to overstay? Staying here is not just about being able to afford a visa/extension. Only people that meet the requirements for a visa/extension can stay here long term and if there isn't a visa/extension that fits they can't stay. It's that simple. e.g. someone living here and entering with a tourist visa that wants to work, can't! Most people overstay because they want to stay here. Surely the possibility of a ban is a far better deterrent than any fine. Just about everyone that enquires about overstay wants to be assured they can get back in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jspill Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 (edited) "Other countries have no deaths in detention". How did you come up with that little gem! Show me a Singapore version of Thaivisa where several members have posted that they saw people die in detention? Check thaibreaker's thread, the conditions in IDC are well documented on this forum. In the media too. Replace 'no deaths' in my post with 'significantly less deaths' if we're being pedantic. Are those sticklers for always following the law to the letter, also campaigning to stop the human rights abuses in Thailand's IDC? Edited October 27, 2015 by jspill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 far-right fascist government playing to the home-crowd with measures to punish foreigners when they could be reforming their visa requirements to make it easier for visitors to stay legally and allow them to properly support the local economies... Fits right in with their moralistic views on drinking, films about monks, and scantily clad motorshow dancers... what a BSThere are tourist visa's for visitors and if you have enough money to support the local economy you can get an investment visa. BS. We support the local economy without investment visa's. if you call buying a leo and some rice supporting the local economy.Just get a proper visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Good, many ppl overstay thinking its fine...I will never get caught etc...GET RID No, that's not it. It's just that many people don't have visa options to stay legally and are willing to take the risk. I don't think the tough new policies will force them out - they'll just be more careful. The new penalties will more likely ensure they stay rather than turn themselves in. The 70,000 number of overstayers sounds worse that it really is. Most likely the majority would be short overstays of a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
optad Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 far-right fascist government playing to the home-crowd with measures to punish foreigners when they could be reforming their visa requirements to make it easier for visitors to stay legally and allow them to properly support the local economies... Fits right in with their moralistic views on drinking, films about monks, and scantily clad motorshow dancers... what a BSThere are tourist visa's for visitors and if you have enough money to support the local economy you can get an investment visa. BS. We support the local economy without investment visa's. if you call buying a leo and some rice supporting the local economy.Just get a proper visa. The sense of entitlement so many farangs have re right to reside/visa issues surprises me as does the arrogance tied to it. lol @ Leo and rice..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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