PM Prayuth to decide on tough new penalties for foreigners who overstay

[Paul888]

This is confusing. These overstay bans have been on display in the lobby at Chaengwatana for some time now, but according to the article it's just now being considered. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445794042.815077.jpg

I imagine that the notices were put up as a deterrent but as it become apparent that they weren't being enforced, people went back to ignoring them hence why now they need to try to formalize it.

Overstay penalties won't affect most of us but the problem with this type of solution to the overstay problem is that instead of somebody having the opportunity to clear the problem when they get their hands on 20,000 and the price of a ticket out, we will now see people with longer and longer overstays because coming forward will equal a ban from re-entering. A situation which will probably lead to more and more spot checks on foreigners walking around.

[NanLaew]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​

Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

Why would 'most foreigners' have problems with comprehending Thai Immigration laws when they are published in English and probably other languages as well?

Why would Immigration staff need to talk to employers?

Your disdain for the Thai's you are working for is pretty heavy. But is anyone forcing you to work here?

Are any of those 'innocent people' you claim as acquaintances similarly under some form of enforced or indentured labor?

[tigermoth]

I don't disagree with stricter penalties but they should only start after the overstay exceeds 90 days and for any overstay over a week bring in a standard 20,000 baht fine. What I do disagree with is all this attention on overstay but no enforcement on all immigration offices following the same rules and these visa rules made a lot more simple like what the hell is the point of 90 day reporting, or leaving the country after 90 days. You still have to renew the particular visa when it expires. Also there are many other laws that need tougher enforcement which affect the country far more than a few overstayers like, traffic, licensing, alchohol sale to minors, etc., etc. I'm sure you can all think of many more.

[Time Traveller]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​

Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

"A lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law"

why ?

how hard is it to read a date in a passport which tells when you need to leave the country ?

If you rely on your date stamp then you're in trouble. The date stamp means nothing, when you resign your job. Most HR staff will tell you that you are still allowed to stay up until the date of the stamp. This is why I said people who rely on what their employer tells them may get the wrong information and think that there extension of stay is still alive after they resign.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Time Traveller

[phoenixdoglover]

Under these penalties, I can't see why anyone would ever turn themselves in when their overstay exceeds 90 days.

because you cant leave the country otherwise.

Yes, but the person that has overstayed on purpose (the great majority of cases), already knows they can't leave the country through normal means.

It would make more sense in terms of implementation for the penalties to be phased in. That way, the people already on overstay could turn themselves in for a fairly light penalty at the start, and over the course of 1 or 2 years, the penalties could be made tougher.

[GoNavy]

• Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​ Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

As I read this the punishment is the same............less or more than one year. What if you overstay one day or one week for some reason.

When I first started coming here the immigration rules were schizophrenic. I had a visa and thought I was good. But, when going through immigration I found out I didn't do a 90 day report even though I had just renewed my visa a few weeks before.

Hopefully this barring business becomes more logical then this. But then again, it is Thailand.

[Time Traveller]

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

Why would 'most foreigners' have problems with comprehending Thai Immigration laws when they are published in English and probably other languages as well?

Why would Immigration staff need to talk to employers?

Your disdain for the Thai's you are working for is pretty heavy. But is anyone forcing you to work here?

Are any of those 'innocent people' you claim as acquaintances similarly under some form of enforced or indentured labor?

Every employer I've had in thailand, the HR staff handle all aspects of immigration. Never once did I even talk with a immigration officer nor did they request to speak with me. That's the reality of most expat workers in thailand. The HR person is their only point of contact. If the HR person forgets something then you're screwed. But you wouldn't know because how would you?

But you don't sound like someone who would ever have a job so don't worry. Just go back to the bar, you need a drink to tame your delusional agression.

[chrissables]

good overstayers are nothing but trouble for the rest of us who abide by the rules, it's not hard.

Please explain how a person overstaying affects you in any way at all. Total rubbish.

Looks like it's going to effect every overstay-er in the future.

So, because of all the people that overstayed their visa in the past with the I dont care just overstay attitude the rules are now being changed which effect anyone in the future. That is how!

If everyone would have followed the rules and maybe only overstayed a day here or there and not months and years this would not be happening.

Anyway why are you upset are you on overstay?

The rules are not being changed due only to Western over stayers ( as i understand it) But Asian people coming to work here.

So it make difference if expat or not.

So even if some Western people were on overstay, as a rule they are still putting money into the country, does that make bad people that should be banned?

That is for the government to decide not other expats!

No, i am legal 100%. But in the past i knew people who were just below the financial threshold to stay with his wife here (for example), and it caused a lot of distress. But he was still putting a large amount of money into the system.

Unlike over stayers in Europe who just take.

[elviajero]

• Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​ Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

As I read this the punishment is the same............less or more than one year. What if you overstay one day or one week for some reason.

When I first started coming here the immigration rules were schizophrenic. I had a visa and thought I was good. But, when going through immigration I found out I didn't do a 90 day report even though I had just renewed my visa a few weeks before.

Hopefully this barring business becomes more logical then this. But then again, it is Thailand.

It's a typo. Over 1 year = 10 years.

[boomerangutang]

Comments and debate is fine for some. Me, I obey the immigration laws and leave others to decide for themselves.

Part of the trouble is the immigration laws change week to week. They're interpreted differently by different Imm officials. Officials are people, they're subjective. I've been in two Imm offices recently, and officials there are having trouble keeping up with the changes. At both offices, workers were shouting back and forth, trying to figure out what's up and what's down. The laws were nutty before, ...now they've become draconian and unevenly allocated. I could relate recent stories herein, but it would take too much typing.

Bureaucracy doesn't know how to make things simple and easy (plus there's no willingness to do so). Their efforts go towards difficult, complicated, and raking in more money. I needed about 60 photocopies recently just for my one application. I had to get a bankbook updated, even though it was updated 95 minutes prior. I'm a landlord and have been living in a house I built 16 yrs ago but now it's easier and simpler to not mention that and instead tell Imm I'm renting from some Thai person. In other words, the system is geared toward telling lies. Thai officials expect everyone to lie, so when someone tells the truth, it can screw up the process. And they assume truth tellers are telling lies because that's what they expect. That's why it's never good enough to go into a Thai office and tell the truth. They're going to assume you're telling lies, that's why you need a Thai person to vouch for you (as if all Thais are truthful) .....AND you need 50 photocopies - then maybe you'll get the processing you want. There was an old farang man with a good pension renting a little house from me. All was fine, but now he's moving out because he's spooked about the new restrictive Thai Imm problems. He's moving to a miserable little room in Thailand for a few months (to please Thai Imm authorities with their requirements), and then moving back to UK for good, when the weather warms there. Multiply that by 100,000, and you get an idea of how many retired farang are going to split from Thailand to spend their retirement in places which don't have draconian laws.

If each retired farang spends an average of Bt.30,000/month and there are approx 100k farang leaving, ....then that's about 36 billion baht annually which won't get spent in Thailand. And nearly all of that is outside money coming in on ATM machines from foreign banks. If what economists tell us is true ('each dollar spent in a community circulates about six times') then that's over 200 billion baht NOT getting spent in Thai communities - because disillusioned farang are gone for good. Note; a lot of money which farang spend in Thailand is under the radar. Dowries (sin sod) is just one example of undocumented money fueling the economy. How many farang (or receiving families) when paying a dowry (between 500k and 6 million baht) ever report that expenditure? Answer: none. It's off the books, but it sure gets spent in the community.

Edited October 26, 2015 by boomerangutang

[ericthai]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​

Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

"A lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law"

why ?

how hard is it to read a date in a passport which tells when you need to leave the country ?

If you rely on your date stamp then you're in trouble. The date stamp means nothing, when you resign your job. Most HR staff will tell you that you are still allowed to stay up until the date of the stamp. This is why I said people who rely on what their employer tells them may get the wrong information and think that there extension of stay is still alive after they resign.

The stamp does mean something. All depends if you have a Visa or an extension of stay. If you a valid B visa then there is no problem. If you have an extension of stay for work purposes then you lose that extension of stay the same time your reason (your employment) ends. If you plan on staying in Thailand longer I would start reading the Immigration bureau's website and read old topics here in TV.

My company used to send me all over the world working and I never relied on my sectary or our HR girl to find out the visa rules and if I needed one or needed a Work Permit. I always did this myself I dont trust anyone to check on these things when it's my ass that is on the line. To them they dont care they will check the minimal, me I check everything to make sure I dont have problems. You should be doing the same if you plan to stay in Thailand.

Lastly they said this was sent for approval so it's not approved yet. If anyone is on overstay right now they should be looking to get the corrected right away if they want to come back to Thailand.

[BritTim]

Your post is interesting, mainly because it shows the mentality of many Thais and many Westerners is similar. Those who are successful and wealthy are justified in having an easy life. Those who have not (at least yet) inherited or earned a nest egg are undesirables, and it should be made as difficult as possible for them to better their lives.

On a point of information, while you can start a business in Thailand, you usually cannot legally own it. Of course, if you have money, the lawyers can find (illegal but tolerated) workarounds that allow you to retain effective control.

Maybe I take your words the wrong way but to me it sounds like you underestimate the accomplishment of this easy life. Most people are not born rich but worked hard for it.

I didn't return to Thailand for 12 years, that's what it took to get my act together and earn sufficient money to stay here so I feel zero pity for people coming here on a nickle and a dime just cause they want this easy life.

Most of the world's population is poor (compared to those who can afford Thailand Elite visas) and never had any opportunity (outside possibly of turning to crime) of becoming wealthy.

Those who are wealthy sometimes become so through pure luck, sometimes through criminal activities, sometimes by hard work, often by a combination of two or more of these.

I do not begrudge anyone their right to enjoy their wealth, especially if they chose (which I would not) a lower quality of life for many years in order to build up their bank accounts. What I do not like is those with fat bank accounts showing disdain for those who are (more often than not through no fault of their own) in a less fortunate position.

[GoNavy]

• Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​ Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

As I read this the punishment is the same............less or more than one year. What if you overstay one day or one week for some reason.

When I first started coming here the immigration rules were schizophrenic. I had a visa and thought I was good. But, when going through immigration I found out I didn't do a 90 day report even though I had just renewed my visa a few weeks before.

Hopefully this barring business becomes more logical then this. But then again, it is Thailand.

It's a typo. Over 1 year = 10 years.

Well then, that is a difference. However less then one year you are still banned for 5 years!!! Doesn't that seem extreme. That would mean to my reading any time from one day to 365..........all less then one year. Certainly extreme in my view. Shouldn't there be something in between?

[JDGRUEN]

In my opinion -- the introduction of the METV will bring problems. Depending on how the working rules for it fall out and IF any elimination of the 2 and 3 Entry tourist visas comes about - AND depending on a number of currently fuzzy factors - the number of Over Stays could rise.

The possibility of only being able to get a METV in one's home country. And the possibility of no alternative 2 and 3 Entry TVs ... This METV does not bode well ... Not to mention that METV's may not be but a one time shot per year - and no back to back issuance - even if one goes home to get it. Long Stay alternatives will diminish not increase. And it all depends on the final rules of execution and management of METVs and removal of other options.

Despite what Thailand and Thai Immigration may want - people under age 50 want a way to stay a long time each year and repeat it. A Decade and More of various schemes and work arounds to stay in Thailand are testimony to that fact. And to say that these Long Stayers are not spending lots of cash in Thailand is to deny reality. They are Long Stay Tourist and/or Short Stay Expats... and it seems Thailand doesn't want them - regardless of money they spend.

Thai Immigration better think long and hard about this METV and related issues as what is now known or speculated about - the METV and possible removal of 2 and 3 Entry TVs - does not dovetail with their announced want for tougher over stay rules... nor in the context of wanting to increase tourism at the same time ...

In my opinion the proposed Over Stay Rules are too harsh in the lower end.

I predict IF implemented as has been discussed and rumored - the METV and loss of 2 and 3 Entry TVs will increase Over Stays and Decrease Tourism over the coming year and years ...

Edited October 26, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[ldiablo]

Why are so many of you foreigners happy that the penalty's for overstaying are harsh? What's it to you? Who gives a rats ass if the guy who's living opposite you doesn't have a valid visa? The only people who should comment on this should be Thai people.. It's their country, not yours.. Get a life! As someone stated earlier. it's a victimless crime, not even the Thai police sees and treats overstayer as a criminal, so why do you? Who the hell do you think you are!?

Freedom of speech

Freedom of speech is the right to communicate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship.

You're not in America anymore fella.

Edited October 26, 2015 by ldiablo

[Soutpeel]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​

Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.

Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

"A lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law"

why ?

how hard is it to read a date in a passport which tells when you need to leave the country ?

If you rely on your date stamp then you're in trouble. The date stamp means nothing, when you resign your job. Most HR staff will tell you that you are still allowed to stay up until the date of the stamp. This is why I said people who rely on what their employer tells them may get the wrong information and think that there extension of stay is still alive after they resign.

Ok lets answer this one shall we and dependent on the case HR may be correct

Case 1 - WP/mutiple B visa /no extension - resign, still got be able to read a date as they where visa running every 90 days anyway and the visa does remain valid after they resign

Case 2 - WP/ extension of stay for employment - if unsure, before you resign ask the question on an on line resource such as TV or visit your nice immigration office if you dont think HR is giving you the right info or not sure

not hard...called due dilligence....given the fact its called an extension of stay for employment, doesnt that trigger something in someones head that the fact they are no unemployed that they have no reason to be in country anymore and thus it could be invalidated ?

People should really take the time to understand the T&C's of their visas/extensions before the fact and understand what exactly what system they are working under, your making excuses for peoples own lazyness to find out the correct information...

[boomerangutang]

Note: some of you already know this, but here's a tip for those you don't yet know: If you have a 30 day or 15 day visa-on-arrival, even if it's your first one on this, your most recent trip, don't wait until it's about to expire - to get another 30- or 15- day extension.

An edict came down recently from Bkk which nixes such renewals. Currently, all Thai border officials have been told to not renew those VOI's - unless you're about half way through the number of days. I don't think we, the regular people, know how many days to the cut-off point, but I think a safe number is HALF. In other words, if up to halfway through the 30-day or 15-day VOI, you can probably do a border run and get back in to Thailand for another 15 days (if by land) or 30 days (by airport). But, if over the halfway point, you will likely get ordered by border authorities to go to a visa office and pay Bt.1,900 for an extension - which allows you a few days to leave the country and/or get a more substantial visa. Another factor, which you probably already know: they don't grant repeat renewals, like the old days.

Correct me if that info above is wrong. I know it sounds complicated, but that's half the purpose of Imm: to make things difficult, complicated and charge more money.

[smedly]

Why are so many of you foreigners happy that the penalty's for overstaying are harsh? What's it to you? Who gives a rats ass if the guy who's living opposite you doesn't have a valid visa? The only people who should comment on this should be Thai people.. It's their country, not yours.. Get a life! As someone stated earlier. it's a victimless crime, not even the Thai police sees and treats an overstayer as a criminal, so why do you? Who the hell do you think you are!?

Thailand is quite liberal already with their visa types on offer and generally cover most peoples needs, the problem is that those who overstay are doing it for a reason

- criminals on the run from their home countries

- sex offenders

and/or

- have no money and are working illegally (personally I don't have an issue as long as it's a proper job "see below")

- Involved in trafficing and or selling drugs

Farangs caught by police that are involved in crime usually have something in common - they are almost always on overstay, that is not to say all those on overstay are involved in crime

[elviajero]

• Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

​ Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.

As I read this the punishment is the same............less or more than one year. What if you overstay one day or one week for some reason.

When I first started coming here the immigration rules were schizophrenic. I had a visa and thought I was good. But, when going through immigration I found out I didn't do a 90 day report even though I had just renewed my visa a few weeks before.

Hopefully this barring business becomes more logical then this. But then again, it is Thailand.

It's a typo. Over 1 year = 10 years.

Well then, that is a difference. However less then one year you are still banned for 5 years!!! Doesn't that seem extreme. That would mean to my reading any time from one day to 365..........all less then one year. Certainly extreme in my view. Shouldn't there be something in between?

I believe the original proposal was for a lifetime ban if overstaying more than 1 year but it was knocked down to 10 years.

Yes I agree that a 1 year ban for a 1 day overstay is extreme but I guess they are looking for a strong deterrent.

[Soutpeel]

The only strange bit is this:

"For an offender who is arrested for overstaying their visa:

Overstay of less than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years.
​
Overstay of more than 1 year = barred from re-entering Thailand for five years."

They could have just said if you don't hand yourself in and we catch you it's a 5 year ban.

That is pretty strict. Most foreigners working here have hardly any understanding of thai immigration law. I know I didn't when I started working in thailand.
Even the immigration staff hate talking to foreigners and usually communicate only with the employer's HR person. So how would you know anyway? Essentially, the average foreign worker is at the mercy of a 23 yr old HR girl who's probably more interested in her phone than in explaining to their expat employees what happens on their extensions of stay and at the end of their employment.

I know a lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law.

"A lot of innocent people are going to get banned because of this law"

why ?

how hard is it to read a date in a passport which tells when you need to leave the country ?

If you rely on your date stamp then you're in trouble. The date stamp means nothing, when you resign your job. Most HR staff will tell you that you are still allowed to stay up until the date of the stamp. This is why I said people who rely on what their employer tells them may get the wrong information and think that there extension of stay is still alive after they resign.

The stamp does mean something. All depends if you have a Visa or an extension of stay. If you a valid B visa then there is no problem. If you have an extension of stay for work purposes then you lose that extension of stay the same time your reason (your employment) ends. If you plan on staying in Thailand longer I would start reading the Immigration bureau's website and read old topics here in TV.

My company used to send me all over the world working and I never relied on my sectary or our HR girl to find out the visa rules and if I needed one or needed a Work Permit. I always did this myself I dont trust anyone to check on these things when it's my ass that is on the line. To them they dont care they will check the minimal, me I check everything to make sure I dont have problems. You should be doing the same if you plan to stay in Thailand.

Lastly they said this was sent for approval so it's not approved yet. If anyone is on overstay right now they should be looking to get the corrected right away if they want to come back to Thailand.

Thank you....exactly what i was getting at...

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yes I agree that a 1 year ban for a 1 day overstay is extreme but I guess they are looking for a strong deterrent.

90 days, not 1 day:

> * Overstay of more than 90 days = barred from re-entering Thailand for one year.

I think the most likely effect of a tightening of the rules and stronger punishments is that fewer expats/retirees at the lower end of the spectrum will just choose to overstay, knowing that overstaying is a lot cheaper than extensions and visa runs, over a period of a couple years. That's a situation (and mindset) that just needs fixing: the overstay punishment is currently broken. Maybe there was a time that 20,000 baht meant something, but that was quite a while ago.

Edited October 26, 2015 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NanLaew]

If you rely on your date stamp then you're in trouble. The date stamp means nothing, when you resign your job. Most HR staff will tell you that you are still allowed to stay up until the date of the stamp. This is why I said people who rely on what their employer tells them may get the wrong information and think that there extension of stay is still alive after they resign.

The options are simple, if still on a visa, the WP cancellation doesn't affect it. If on an extension (visa already expired), Elvis has 7 days to leave the building.

Every employer I've had in thailand, the HR staff handle all aspects of immigration. Never once did I even talk with a immigration officer nor did they request to speak with me. That's the reality of most expat workers in thailand. The HR person is their only point of contact. If the HR person forgets something then you're screwed. But you wouldn't know because how would you?

But you don't sound like someone who would ever have a job so don't worry. Just go back to the bar, you need a drink to tame your delusional agression.

Since you ask, I have had 4 totally legal and non-shonky (read not TEFL'ing) jobs in Thailand since 2010. I too never had to deal directly with Immigration or the Labour Department on any of these assignments but I did know the immigration and labor laws as they pertained to my working in Thailand. Granted my employers had HR staff that were very conversant with the regulations but that didn't stop me DOING MY OWN HOMEWORK and double checking everything. If the HR departments you and your peers are familiar with tend to be less than savvy... then go ahead and rely on them 100% while YOU slide of to the bar at the end of the day.

I feel your pain. Stop apologizing for others that can't find their own <deleted> with two hands and a flashlight.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory baiting posts and replies have been removed.

[Psychic]

I have no problem at all with Thailand cleaning up the overstayers.

If these people can not meet the current requirements for staying here they are probably not an asset to the country.

With a few exceptions. I've never understood the age restrictions on retirement. If you have the money and Thailand is willing to let you come here and spend it then why do you need to be 50.

I have a friend who is 45 and financially well off who would be spending a hell of a lot more money than me but he can't get an equivalent visa.

I'm sure there are many more like him who became visa runners before they tightened those rules.

To me this makes no sense.

But I'd really like them to take positive, as opposed to negative measures, on their rules.

Retirees who can show an income for life shouldn't need to keep proving it every year and reporting every 90 days unless they change residence.

Married immigrants, after a period of time that shows a permanence of residence and marriage should also be exempted from reporting unless something changes.

These people have made Thailand their home. Perhaps it is time for a change of rules, like a 5 year visa then Immigration can devote more of their time to stopping undesirables from entering or staying in the Kingdom.

[MobileContent]

Most of the moaners and groners are the ones exploiting the system

The loss to Thailand of those infringing the rules would be minimal

I believe the rigid enforcement of the rules to be good

In the UK if you file your tax late, you are immediately penalised

If you are visiting the UK on a visa and overstay you will be imprisoned and exported and probably banned for ever from returning

I hope this happens

Some who play by the rules may be baddies.

Some who have a tough time adhering to the rules may be good guys.

Also, I doubt the Brits have a handle on illegals in their country. I'd venture there are hundreds of thousands. Who knows the numbers? Just by being illegal, makes them off the charts.

I know in the US, there are millions of illegals. Most of them are fine folks. Some are baddies, just like in the general population of legal citizens: most are good, and some are bad.

What the junta in Bkk is doing is criminalizing people who don't need to be criminalized. They're looking more like the Burmese junta (of decades past) with each passing week.

I'm over 49 so I have a relatively easy time with annual visa renewal here in Thailand (though a recent renewal was 10x tougher than the prior 12 years, and nothing changed in my situation). Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized. They may be in the wwoof program (work exchange at a garden) or volunteering to assist at an orphanage, or assisting with displaced people at a border tent camp, studying Buddhism, etc.

And sure, there are some baddies who slip into Thailand. They could be illegal or legal with the Immigration laws. Some of the most effective baddies are people who dress and smell nice, are well-groomed, rich, charming and full of smiles.

Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized.

Thailand: They could have a got a TV valid for 60 days, extend it for another 30 days and possible cross the border for another 30 days. Why would someone been criminalized.

Their are farangs in Thailand that have 2 years overstay and pay a pity fee of 20,000 Baht maximum when they exit Thailand via land or an airport.

A farang in Laos would be charged over 7000 USD in overstay fees.

In Malaysia for overstays of more than 30 days, you risk imprisonment of several months to 5 years and possible caning. 2 year overstay would convert to around 2 years jail.

In Singapore the minimum jail is 6 months prison and 3 x caning.

Indonesia: Overstay in Indonesia is around 22 USD per day or per year around 8000 USD. By two years we are talking about USD 16,000 fine or plenty of time in jail.

Vietnam: Overstay for 1-2 days can be fined up to 100USD. Overstay of 3 months over can get a high fine and possible be banned from Vietnam

Cambodia: Overstay is 5 USD/day for below 30 days or 6 US$/day for over 30 days. A two year overstay in Cambodia cost 4380 USD.

Brunei: Jail and possible caning and around 500 B$ per year.

Philippines: 752.33 USD for one year overstay - The Philippines in addition charges any overstayer "First Visa Extension fee, Six x 2 month Visa Extension fees plus the ACR-i card fee, Fine for Overstaying (12 months) and Motion for Reconsideration for Overstaying"

Its time for Thailand to upgrade their fines with other neighboring countries and stop the 20k ceiling as Thailand is the only country including Myanmar that have very lax immigrant rules and fines.

[Soutpeel]

Most of the moaners and groners are the ones exploiting the system

The loss to Thailand of those infringing the rules would be minimal

I believe the rigid enforcement of the rules to be good

In the UK if you file your tax late, you are immediately penalised

If you are visiting the UK on a visa and overstay you will be imprisoned and exported and probably banned for ever from returning

I hope this happens

Some who play by the rules may be baddies.

Some who have a tough time adhering to the rules may be good guys.

Also, I doubt the Brits have a handle on illegals in their country. I'd venture there are hundreds of thousands. Who knows the numbers? Just by being illegal, makes them off the charts.

I know in the US, there are millions of illegals. Most of them are fine folks. Some are baddies, just like in the general population of legal citizens: most are good, and some are bad.

What the junta in Bkk is doing is criminalizing people who don't need to be criminalized. They're looking more like the Burmese junta (of decades past) with each passing week.

I'm over 49 so I have a relatively easy time with annual visa renewal here in Thailand (though a recent renewal was 10x tougher than the prior 12 years, and nothing changed in my situation). Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized. They may be in the wwoof program (work exchange at a garden) or volunteering to assist at an orphanage, or assisting with displaced people at a border tent camp, studying Buddhism, etc.

And sure, there are some baddies who slip into Thailand. They could be illegal or legal with the Immigration laws. Some of the most effective baddies are people who dress and smell nice, are well-groomed, rich, charming and full of smiles.

Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized.

Thailand: They could have a got a TV valid for 60 days, extend it for another 30 days and possible cross the border for another 30 days. Why would someone been criminalized.

Their are farangs in Thailand that have 2 years overstay and pay a pity fee of 20,000 Baht maximum when they exit Thailand via land or an airport.

A farang in Laos would be charged over 7000 USD in overstay fees.

In Malaysia for overstays of more than 30 days, you risk imprisonment of several months to 5 years and possible caning. 2 year overstay would convert to around 2 years jail.

In Singapore the minimum jail is 6 months prison and 3 x caning.

Indonesia: Overstay in Indonesia is around 22 USD per day or per year around 8000 USD. By two years we are talking about USD 16,000 fine or plenty of time in jail.

Vietnam: Overstay for 1-2 days can be fined up to 100USD. Overstay of 3 months over can get a high fine and possible be banned from Vietnam

Cambodia: Overstay is 5 USD/day for below 30 days or 6 US$/day for over 30 days. A two year overstay in Cambodia cost 4380 USD.

Brunei: Jail and possible caning and around 500 B$ per year.

Philippines: 752.33 USD for one year overstay - The Philippines in addition charges any overstayer "First Visa Extension fee, Six x 2 month Visa Extension fees plus the ACR-i card fee, Fine for Overstaying (12 months) and Motion for Reconsideration for Overstaying"

Its time for Thailand to upgrade their fines with other neighboring countries and stop the 20k ceiling as Thailand is the only country including Myanmar that have very lax immigrant rules and fines.

Well reasearched post...

[anotheruser]

Your post is interesting, mainly because it shows the mentality of many Thais and many Westerners is similar. Those who are successful and wealthy are justified in having an easy life. Those who have not (at least yet) inherited or earned a nest egg are undesirables, and it should be made as difficult as possible for them to better their lives.

On a point of information, while you can start a business in Thailand, you usually cannot legally own it. Of course, if you have money, the lawyers can find (illegal but tolerated) workarounds that allow you to retain effective control.

Maybe I take your words the wrong way but to me it sounds like you underestimate the accomplishment of this easy life. Most people are not born rich but worked hard for it.

I didn't return to Thailand for 12 years, that's what it took to get my act together and earn sufficient money to stay here so I feel zero pity for people coming here on a nickle and a dime just cause they want this easy life.

Dennis,

You still seem to think the fact you are well off entitles you to break the rules at your convenience. You admitted this in an earlier post. If you are that rich then pony up for the elite visa. You belittle people that come on a nickel and dime yet you admit you will break immigration laws to save a nickel and a dime. It comes across as hypocritical to say the least.

At least if you are yourself breaking the law then don't throw stones from your glass house. If you believe your own BS you should then be deported and banned for the things you do. You have basically asserted you are above the law because you have money. Evidently not enough money to buy an elite visa though.

[Prbkk]

It goes without saying that people should not be overstaying. However, the General might prefer to concentrate on attracting more visitors rather than potentially scare off more.

One would suspect that this campaign might round up a few harmless TEFLers and some aged hippies while the genuine ratbags are untouched.

[StevieDee]

Most of the moaners and groners are the ones exploiting the system

The loss to Thailand of those infringing the rules would be minimal

I believe the rigid enforcement of the rules to be good

In the UK if you file your tax late, you are immediately penalised

If you are visiting the UK on a visa and overstay you will be imprisoned and exported and probably banned for ever from returning

I hope this happens

Some who play by the rules may be baddies.

Some who have a tough time adhering to the rules may be good guys.

Also, I doubt the Brits have a handle on illegals in their country. I'd venture there are hundreds of thousands. Who knows the numbers? Just by being illegal, makes them off the charts.

I know in the US, there are millions of illegals. Most of them are fine folks. Some are baddies, just like in the general population of legal citizens: most are good, and some are bad.

What the junta in Bkk is doing is criminalizing people who don't need to be criminalized. They're looking more like the Burmese junta (of decades past) with each passing week.

I'm over 49 so I have a relatively easy time with annual visa renewal here in Thailand (though a recent renewal was 10x tougher than the prior 12 years, and nothing changed in my situation). Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized. They may be in the wwoof program (work exchange at a garden) or volunteering to assist at an orphanage, or assisting with displaced people at a border tent camp, studying Buddhism, etc.

And sure, there are some baddies who slip into Thailand. They could be illegal or legal with the Immigration laws. Some of the most effective baddies are people who dress and smell nice, are well-groomed, rich, charming and full of smiles.

Yet I feel for those under 50 who want to stay in Thailand for more than several weeks, but are now facing being criminalized.

Thailand: They could have a got a TV valid for 60 days, extend it for another 30 days and possible cross the border for another 30 days. Why would someone been criminalized.

Their are farangs in Thailand that have 2 years overstay and pay a pity fee of 20,000 Baht maximum when they exit Thailand via land or an airport.

A farang in Laos would be charged over 7000 USD in overstay fees.

In Malaysia for overstays of more than 30 days, you risk imprisonment of several months to 5 years and possible caning. 2 year overstay would convert to around 2 years jail.

In Singapore the minimum jail is 6 months prison and 3 x caning.

Indonesia: Overstay in Indonesia is around 22 USD per day or per year around 8000 USD. By two years we are talking about USD 16,000 fine or plenty of time in jail.

Vietnam: Overstay for 1-2 days can be fined up to 100USD. Overstay of 3 months over can get a high fine and possible be banned from Vietnam

Cambodia: Overstay is 5 USD/day for below 30 days or 6 US$/day for over 30 days. A two year overstay in Cambodia cost 4380 USD.

Brunei: Jail and possible caning and around 500 B$ per year.

Philippines: 752.33 USD for one year overstay - The Philippines in addition charges any overstayer "First Visa Extension fee, Six x 2 month Visa Extension fees plus the ACR-i card fee, Fine for Overstaying (12 months) and Motion for Reconsideration for Overstaying"

Its time for Thailand to upgrade their fines with other neighboring countries and stop the 20k ceiling as Thailand is the only country including Myanmar that have very lax immigrant rules and fines.

Well reasearched post...

And very relevant. To have the 20,000 Baht maximum only encourages those without visas to overstay longer.

[siliconvalley]

I mostly agree with all. But what about those who have a wonderful and beautiful child, a great wife who unfortunately spent most of his money to buy that house, shop, cattle, land, car, motorbikes, the 2nd house for mom and dad, the tractor, the pig farm, the rice land and left himself short? Waiting another couple of years for his retirement money to kick in. This person is desperate. Bad choices are made. Every civilized country allows Thai to become citizens. Yes, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly exist. My humble opinion is, allow foreigners citizenship. Who bought everything? I see the goal of Thailand is to prey on those who spend their life savings, just to not allow them equal rights. Because if equal rights were given, corruption would stop. All the immigration laws do is subtract not add to democracy.