Confused-marriage Visa Rules!

[Jonny B]

hey lopburi3 or sunbelt. all i recieved so far was a 3 month non o visa based on marriage which was granted on 7th august and expires on 4th november. i now have a single entry return stamp which also expires on 4th nov, i was under the impression once i return to thailand i could then apply for my 1 year extension {sorry for previous wording} based on at least 400k baht in bank and all other previously required documents. Will i still be able to do so?

thanks for any help.

[lopburi3]

Hopefully your are right as it could be taken that you are in the system with the current extension of stay obtained prior to the change. But will let Sunbelt advise on that. I was concerned you might have a multi entry visa and would return on a new entry and am quite sure that would not fly for using the old rules.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hopefully your are right as it could be taken that you are in the system with the current extension of stay obtained prior to the change. But will let Sunbelt advise on that. I was concerned you might have a multi entry visa and would return on a new entry and am quite sure that would not fly for using the old rules.

Good catch Lop. I only saw the one year renewal.

Sorry but you will not qualify Jonny B. The only way you could qualify for one month under the old rule is to cross the border Nov 5th, get a 30 day stamp and do the change to a "O" visa. You would then be under the old rule for the change at Immigration but when they went to give you the extension of stay, you would be under the new rules of needing income and would not qualify.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Alphonso]

Not correct...

National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

7.17

(6) In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

As you applied before this order was enforced ( Oct. 1st, 2006), the income requirement does not apply to you.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sunbelt, please clarify the above. It seems to state :-

"Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife"

In other words, if the foreigner has entered the Kingdom before 1st of October (September for example) and has a valid 'O' visa + 400k for 3 months, then he can apply after 1st Oct under the older law. Since the requirement used to be that you had to be in the country 45 days before you could apply then this would make sense. Also applying for the extension only granted 'consideration', and one would have to wait further still before getting approval, so applying doesn't constitute the granting of said extension. Of course I may be out of date with these reg's or something has been lost in the translation, would you please confirm if this is correct.

Great work by the way...

[baboon]

O.K, what about this? I entered before oct 1 on my non o multi. Could I go to Bankok now and try to extend under the old rules even though my visa will not expire for another 6 months or so? Thanks in advance.

[Jonny B]

Hopefully your are right as it could be taken that you are in the system with the current extension of stay obtained prior to the change. But will let Sunbelt advise on that. I was concerned you might have a multi entry visa and would return on a new entry and am quite sure that would not fly for using the old rules.

Good catch Lop. I only saw the one year renewal.

Sorry but you will not qualify Jonny B. The only way you could qualify for one month under the old rule is to cross the border Nov 5th, get a 30 day stamp and do the change to a "O" visa. You would then be under the old rule for the change at Immigration but when they went to give you the extension of stay, you would be under the new rules of needing income and would not qualify.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

sunbelt as alphonso has just said i obtained the non o visa before this stupid rule was introduced so how come i would not qualify?

my g.f has called a few immi offices and has been given many different stories as to what we need for the 1 year extension, one even said i now need a work permit but finally another said just bring all the same documents as previous and 400k in bank, so i think il have to take my chances, try a few different immi officers or resort to some under the table payment.

IM STARTING TO WARM TO THE IDEA OF HUNDREDS OF FARANG PROTESTING ABOUT THIS CRAP, WHETHER IT WOULD MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE I DONT KNOW BUT WOULD BE NICE TO JUST BE HEARD.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

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QUOTE(Jonny B @ 2006-10-18 07:35:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully your are right as it could be taken that you are in the system with the current extension of stay obtained prior to the change. But will let Sunbelt advise on that. I was concerned you might have a multi entry visa and would return on a new entry and am quite sure that would not fly for using the old rules.

Good catch Lop. I only saw the one year renewal.

Sorry but you will not qualify Jonny B. The only way you could qualify for one month under the old rule is to cross the border Nov 5th, get a 30 day stamp and do the change to a "O" visa. You would then be under the old rule for the change at Immigration but when they went to give you the extension of stay, you would be under the new rules of needing income and would not qualify.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

sunbelt as alphonso has just said i obtained the non o visa before this stupid rule was introduced so how come i would not qualify?

my g.f has called a few immi offices and has been given many different stories as to what we need for the 1 year extension, one even said i now need a work permit but finally another said just bring all the same documents as previous and 400k in bank, so i think il have to take my chances, try a few different immi officers or resort to some under the table payment.

IM STARTING TO WARM TO THE IDEA OF HUNDREDS OF FARANG PROTESTING ABOUT THIS CRAP, WHETHER IT WOULD MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE I DONT KNOW BUT WOULD BE NICE TO JUST BE HEARD.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but that protest would only be a waste of time and effort.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sunbelt, please clarify the above. It seems to state :-

"Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife"

In other words, if the foreigner has entered the Kingdom before 1st of October (September for example) and has a valid 'O' visa + 400k for 3 months, then he can apply after 1st Oct under the older law. Since the requirement used to be that you had to be in the country 45 days before you could apply then this would make sense. Also applying for the extension only granted 'consideration', and one would have to wait further still before getting approval, so applying doesn't constitute the granting of said extension. Of course I may be out of date with these reg's or something has been lost in the translation, would you please confirm if this is correct.

Great work by the way...

They mean that you had been granted the extenstion of stay or "under consideration" before Oct 1st. Not simply having a "O" visa.

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

my g.f has called a few immi offices and has been given many different stories as to what we need for the 1 year extension, one even said i now need a work permit but finally another said just bring all the same documents as previous and 400k in bank, so i think il have to take my chances, try a few different immi officers or resort to some under the table payment.

You only need the Wp if you get a income inside Thailand. For change of visa you can use the 400K in the bank criteria but not for the extension.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[phusingpete]

I

think they said that my wife has to have me listed as a spouse on her tax form. Must my wife have me written down as spouse on all her tax documents?

Not required but her tax rate would be lower if she did this.

I know she must change her name, but must she go back and change the information on her Tax Form 91 to include my name and Mrs in front of her name?

no

They also commented about my wife not having the yellow reciept but she submitted her tax through the internet. How can my wife produce a reciept if she submitted through the internet?

You just print out the receipt from the Internet when you file it.

Does my wife need to pay her tax for 2006 before we extend the visa in early January 2007 or do we use the tax form from 2005? If yes, then this will cause problems because the accountant at her workplace usually hands in all the documents right before March.

No they use 2005 and the last three months of the PND 1

Hi Sunbelt, i obtained a non o visa based on marriage which will expire on 4th November. I am currently back in Aus and will return to thailand on 23rd October at which stage i planned on applying for the 1 year renewel. Will i be able to do so with the 400k baht in the bank or not?

You will be able to use the funds instead of income. It will be your choice.

I am in Bangkok for a few months and have been to the British Embassy to make a statement re my income, but they require proof.I think that in my home in Sisaket I have the P60s for my Pensions,which I happened to bring out with me.Would my local immigration office accept these as proof of income,or do I have to return to the Embassy in Bangkok to get a letter.

You will need to go to the Embassy.

Also as I had an extension before,not valid in sept/oct, does this mean the 400,000 still applies to me...

Sorry it would not.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Hi all,Understood, thanks for all the advice...

[Jonny B]

ok thanks for clarifying sunbelt. so that leads me to ask you how shall i go about getting this income proven when i dont actually have any monthly income. i have plenty of cash in the bank in aus which i send over regularly and are currently building house and apartment in thailand so i really need this visa to stay.

My girlfriend is employed by a reputable company and i think earns about 22k baht per month, would i letter from her employer stating that she earns more than 40k per month suffice.

do you know how much proof aus embassy would require for monthly income as my father is self employed and could write a letter stating i earn so much, would this be sufficient or will they want to see tax returns and so forth?

thanks alot for your help

[Casanundra]

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QUOTE(Jonny B @ 2006-10-18 13:30:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok thanks for clarifying sunbelt. so that leads me to ask you how shall i go about getting this income proven when i dont actually have any monthly income. i have plenty of cash in the bank in aus which i send over regularly and are currently building house and apartment in thailand so i really need this visa to stay.

My girlfriend is employed by a reputable company and i think earns about 22k baht per month, would i letter from her employer stating that she earns more than 40k per month suffice.

do you know how much proof aus embassy would require for monthly income as my father is self employed and could write a letter stating i earn so much, would this be sufficient or will they want to see tax returns and so forth?

thanks alot for your help

Because you now collectively have to show tax paid on 40k per month, the best solution would be to just contribute 18k per month to your partners 22k salary and get her to pay tax on it (which works out at about 37k per year on a 40k per month salary). As far as I am aware, she doesn't need a letter from her boss to confirm her salary as long as she shows the tax has been paid on 40k THB per month although I am sure the letter would help.

The benefits of this solution is that it a) keeps you out of the loop and gets you a 1 year visa

Job done!

Call it a married man's tax if you like but this is the solution i will go with when or if my time comes to relinquish the work visa in favour of a non imm O for marriage.

[Sunbelt Asia]

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ok thanks for clarifying sunbelt. so that leads me to ask you how shall i go about getting this income proven when i dont actually have any monthly income. i have plenty of cash in the bank in aus which i send over regularly and are currently building house and apartment in thailand so i really need this visa to stay.

My girlfriend is employed by a reputable company and i think earns about 22k baht per month, would i letter from her employer stating that she earns more than 40k per month suffice.

do you know how much proof aus embassy would require for monthly income as my father is self employed and could write a letter stating i earn so much, would this be sufficient or will they want to see tax returns and so forth?

thanks alot for your help

Every Embassy is different in their requirements. Australia is more stricter than others I have seen. If you work for you father and he will write a letter, it's worth a "go."

On the otherhand your future wife could pay the "back tax" on the difference between her salary tax and 40K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Jonny B]

--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonny B @ 2006-10-18 06:30:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

ok thanks for clarifying sunbelt. so that leads me to ask you how shall i go about getting this income proven when i dont actually have any monthly income. i have plenty of cash in the bank in aus which i send over regularly and are currently building house and apartment in thailand so i really need this visa to stay.

My girlfriend is employed by a reputable company and i think earns about 22k baht per month, would i letter from her employer stating that she earns more than 40k per month suffice.

do you know how much proof aus embassy would require for monthly income as my father is self employed and could write a letter stating i earn so much, would this be sufficient or will they want to see tax returns and so forth?

thanks alot for your help

Every Embassy is different in their requirements. Australia is more stricter than others I have seen. If you work for you father and he will write a letter, it's worth a "go."

On the otherhand your future wife could pay the "back tax" on the difference between her salary tax and 40K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

yeah sounds like my best option then i think, will get g.f to call couple different immi offices tomorrow and see what they say this time.

thanks for the replies fellas, much appreciated.

[meatgrowler]

Im now confused so let me ask again in case i missed it.

Im currently working here in thailand, making over 40k per month with all permits. I actualy want to take a year or so off work.

My wife is Thai and makes much more than i do with her job.

Can we in fact use her funds from Thailand showing she makes well over 100k per month to show we have income to support? Can a Thai wife in fact support her western husband?

Last time we had asked, the man laughed saying no Thai wife can support a man as its not the culture here.....

I would love to have a PM from anyone able to clear this up or with personal exp now with the rules in that regards.

Mark

National Police Office Order No. 606/2006

7.17

(6) In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month.

Can we in fact use her funds from Thailand showing she makes well over 100k per month to show we have income to support?

Yes

Can a Thai wife in fact support her western husband?

Yes

I would love to have a PM from anyone able to clear this up or with personal exp now with the rules in that regards.

Our firm has already done it for a client, since Oct 1st, 2006.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[zxray]

Question? Can I apply for a mairrage visa,

and recieve it while in Thailand, on a VOA, or must I apply outside the kingdom?

[Jonny B]

Every Embassy is different in their requirements. Australia is more stricter than others I have seen. If you work for you father and he will write a letter, it's worth a "go."

On the otherhand your future wife could pay the "back tax" on the difference between her salary tax and 40K per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Hi Sunbelt, sorry forgot to ask, could you explain this "back tax" idea to me please. If we are building an apartment block which will potentially be earning about 40k + baht per month from december onwards once its completed will they take this into account or does the income have to be at present.

Thanks again

[Sunbelt Asia]

Question? Can I apply for a mairrage visa,

and recieve it while in Thailand, on a VOA, or must I apply outside the kingdom?

You can get it while in Thailand by changing a tourist visa, transit visa or a 30 day tourist visa exemption stamp. On the otherhand you can get a 90 day non-O visa outside the country and do the extension here.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi Sunbelt, sorry forgot to ask, could you explain this "back tax" idea to me please.

Example: Your wife has a salary of 22K per month. She pays tax of 367 Baht per month. You need to show tax on 40K which is 2,167 Baht per month. She pays the difference of 1,800 Baht per month for three months and provides this additional evidence of 5,400 in tax paid.

If we are building an apartment block which will potentially be earning about 40k + baht per month from december onwards once its completed will they take this into account or does the income have to be at present.

Thanks again

Income at present and in the past three months.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dsfbrit]

This is a dull if reassuring piece of feedback relating to my 1 year extension of visa (marriage). This is my 4th extension.

My wife and I went to Pattaya Immigration end of August with all the relevant documents and 406k baht in the bank.

Went back once at the end of September and a second time today and I received my extension.

They did not visit the house. They were very helpful as usual.

I only went back there for 2 months not 3 months, before I got the visa.

In fact this feedback is very dull indeed.

I know things have changed since 1st October and I in no way wish to trivialise the distressing problems some people are having, but I hope lots of people will continue to provide feedback on actual experiences - good as well as bad - so we can get a balanced understanding of issues relating to visa extensions.

Sometimes its only the bad news that gets spread about.

good luck to you all with your visas - i dont have to 'worry' about it for another year!!!!!

[Maestro]

...if they insisit i need the income letter from embassy, I will simply tell them sorry I don't the extension anymore because I am financially able to relocate to much better places. In the case, I have always thought to spend some times in Provence, or Andalucia, to raise my little kid. Then adios tailand.

Rudolf, how did it work our for you in the end?

Or has the time for your application for extension not yet arrived?

---------------

Maestro

[comproez]

Hi, I'm new here and really appreciate all the time and information shared by everyone.

I have read through this thread and that answered many of my questions and doubts.

I've made a summary for myself and would like to share it with all of you.

Application for non-immigrant visa based on marriage.

ELIGIBILITY

- Married to a thai national

- Able to show 40k baht of monthly family income. The income can be local or foreign income. For foreign income, you will have to get a notarized letter from your embassy.

- 400k of cash in bank does not apply anymore for applications dated OCT 1 ONWARDS.

HOW TO APPLY

a) visa application form

passport

c) photos

d) marriage certificate

e) copy of wife’s ID card

f) copy of home register

g) notarized letter from embassy as proof of income

h) map and photos of house

i) photos showing clothing of both husband and wife.

Initially, you would apply for a 90 day non immigrant visa using all the documents above up to item (f). Then when you are left with 30 days stay, you proceed to apply for a 1 year extension at the immigration bureau with all the documents from (a) to (i)

As an appendix, if your marriage certificate is a foreign one. You will need to get Kor 22.

-The embassy of your nationality certifies the marriage certificate

-Marriage certificate is translated

-MOF stamps the copy of the marriage certificate and the copy of the translatd one

-District office issues the KOR 22

Hope this is useful.

Cheers,

Laval

[timber]

Thank you Comproez!! A nice summary. On the thai income side. Do you need a sheet from the taxation department to show you are paying taxes and from your employer to show legit employment?

[yaimar]

Hi Sunbelt, sorry forgot to ask, could you explain this "back tax" idea to me please.

Example: Your wife has a salary of 22K per month. She pays tax of 367 Baht per month. You need to show tax on 40K which is 2,167 Baht per month. She pays the difference of 1,800 Baht per month for three months and provides this additional evidence of 5,400 in tax paid.

If we are building an apartment block which will potentially be earning about 40k + baht per month from december onwards once its completed will they take this into account or does the income have to be at present.

Thanks again

Income at present and in the past three months.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Tax etc, please forgive yaimar again . I go this week to imm: for my one month check /1st . for a renewal of spouse visa. I dont see any problems , But advise please . In the past I have shown 400,000, In the bank/letter plus 40,000 per in the bank book,plus the wife and proof we live together, etc, I am ok with this , BUT I have never paid tax ??[here] other than on the interest . its shown in the book, Should I be paying tax on the 40,000 also. pensions. ? plus I am thinking /would like, to change to retirement . say from next month , if the 3 months check in applies,[ during that period.] I would ask the imm:officer if I could do that. so the APPLICATION would be new /OCT/NOV COULD I USE THE 400,000. PLUS INCOME 40,000 TO QUALIFY . 800,000. pLUS I have never had a letter from my embassy, re pensions , I was just asked 9 years ago, proof for proof of retirement pension. card/ and pages printed out from my home/bank account ,showing state and private pensions, were accepted as proof of income. over the years the letter from the bank and photocopies of bankbook,were the only need for the money, I submitted this in september ,. Should I seek to change , dear sunbelt can you advise me of the requirements,please plus do I need to leave the country evey 15 months in the future ,to comply with the new rules, thank you in advance yaimar

[Nam Kao]

Been mulling these new rules over.... I dont have the 40K pension to show immigration.

I can get the declaration OK but Imm. checks deeper from what i am hearing here. I'll give

Sunbelt a shot to get me in though.

If i cant, I am thinking of spending 3 months in Thai then 3 months exiled in Phnom Penh over and over and

try some other places also on the 3 months out. My wife will stay in Thai, she doesnt like it

but i said "Hey this is your country's doing - not mine". She is pretty steamed about the

new rules. I am just going to try to make the best of it. I could stay in the US but i am

really tired of this place.

This will put a little more strain on my trading, before i needed to make 4% a year, now i

will need 8%, still small but more work/time.

The upside is i wont get bored i guess going back and forth from two different lifestyles and

i'll always look forward to seeing my wife again. In cam i will be up to my gills in beer lao and

taxi girls. I guess i can travel around and see the countryside there.

well enough rambling on...,.

-Nam Bonaparte, Saint Helena

[Sunbelt Asia]

Tax etc, please forgive yaimar again . I go this week to imm: for my one month check /1st . for a renewal of spouse visa. I dont see any problems , But advise please . In the past I have shown 400,000, In the bank/letter plus 40,000 per in the bank book,plus the wife and proof we live together, etc, I am ok with this , BUT I have never paid tax ??[here] other than on the interest . its shown in the book, Should I be paying tax on the 40,000 also. pensions. ? plus I am thinking /would like, to change to retirement . say from next month , if the 3 months check in applies,[ during that period.] I would ask the imm:officer if I could do that. so the APPLICATION would be new /OCT/NOV COULD I USE THE 400,000. PLUS INCOME 40,000 TO QUALIFY . 800,000.

yes for the retirement

pLUS I have never had a letter from my embassy, re pensions , I was just asked 9 years ago, proof for proof of retirement pension. card/ and pages printed out from my home/bank account ,showing state and private pensions, were accepted as proof of income. over the years the letter from the bank and photocopies of bankbook,were the only need for the money, I submitted this in september ,. Should I seek to change ,

Letter from the Embassy is what they like to see along with the proof.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

Been mulling these new rules over.... I dont have the 40K pension to show immigration.

I can get the declaration OK but Imm. checks deeper from what i am hearing here. I'll give

Sunbelt a shot to get me in though.

If i cant, I am thinking of spending 3 months in Thai then 3 months exiled in Phnom Penh over and over and

try some other places also on the 3 months out. My wife will stay in Thai, she doesnt like it

but i said "Hey this is your country's doing - not mine". She is pretty steamed about the

new rules. I am just going to try to make the best of it. I could stay in the US but i am

really tired of this place.

This will put a little more strain on my trading, before i needed to make 4% a year, now i

will need 8%, still small but more work/time.

The upside is i wont get bored i guess going back and forth from two different lifestyles and

i'll always look forward to seeing my wife again. In cam i will be up to my gills in beer lao and

taxi girls. I guess i can travel around and see the countryside there.

well enough rambling on...,.

-Nam Bonaparte, Saint Helena

Under section 7.23 you can get a exension of stay to visit your Thai wife in Thailand for 60 days at a time with no financial proof required.

National_Police_Office_Order_Oct_2006_.pdf

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[thaigene2]

I definitely think it's time that Thai wives with foreign husbands started demanding equal treatment from the Thai authorities.

Does anyone know of another developed or transitional country where a national of that country is denied the right to have their foreign husband join them permanently (e.g. take up residency)? Of course, many countries DO check that the marriages aren't 'convenience' marriages - and fair enough. So what - have interviews, etc, and as long as the guy isn't a criminal or child molester, grant him Permanent Residence - tie it to the marriage licence - whatever. I seriously can't think of any other country where a man is denied to move to and live permanently in the country of his spouse.

It gets really, really ridiculous when you're the father of a couple of kids born in Thailand - but you only have the right to 'apply' to 'visit' your wife and kids - denied from working in all but a select few fields - and then whacked with big annual visa fees.

Thailand needs to get beyond this 'visa' stuff and start treating Thai women who've married foreigners with a bit more dignity - or watch them move away to Western countries (and Sing, HK, Japan, Taiwan) with the sami-farangs. If the Hi-So Thais were afraid of the 'farang competition' for local business before - watch what happens when the Thai-Farang kids come back from the USA, Canada, Aus, etc. with their perfect English and good education. It is in the Hi-So Thai community's best interest to let the thai-farang couples settle here - and struggle along with everyone else.

[lopburi3]

I don't really know of countries that allow spouse to stay if the couple can not meet some kind of financial requirement (at least initially). The new 40k family income for Thailand seems to be a move toward making it easier as it is no longer a requirement that the foreign spouse be the provider to obtain extension of stay.

[comproez]

Hi everyone,

I have a question. For married people, we apply for a 90 day non-immigrant visa at the embassy or consulate in our home country first and then apply for extension at immigration bureau.

Given that we need proof of income for extension but not for the initial 90 day, can somebody just keep applying for 90 days based on marriage without applying for extension?

I am from Singapore so to me flying back every 90 days to see friends and families is not only convenient but much needed.

Thanks,

Laval

[lopburi3]

A multi entry visa would be better as then you would not have to visit Embassy every trip but either would work.