Thaksin says reconciliation must stem from justice

[Baerboxer]

Justice? That's what he fled the country because of if i remember correctly. 2 years jail and umpteen more legitimate charges to hear.

And weird how his brand of justice is only fair if it benefits him, his family or his business interests. In short, total scumbag

Well, I'm probably no more qualified to comment on the 'umpteen more legitimate charges' than you are, but the conviction he was given that I know about and followed at the time (as a critic of Thaksin) was extremely dodgy. Very dodgy indeed. Almost as dodgy as the decisions later handed down to his sister in fact... The dodginess of that decision and the obvious machinations by Prem against Thaksin were a major factor in my re-evaluating what I believed of the man.

There was absolutely nothing dodgy about it. You must have some issue if you followed it and couldn't understand it.

He signed a document, fully knowing it was illegal to do so. He was caught out and then tried to bribe the judges through his lawyer and the pasty boxes. He was convicted and legged it. No appeal, just the usual attempt to claim it was political, which is nonsense.

The only question was the sentence. Was the in accordance with the law or unusually harsh?

He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits. But he uses it against his enemies at when he fancies. He uses the "political" as a get out attempt for any legal action against any of his family and maintains he's never ever done anything wrong. Like many compulsive liars he's lost the ability to know the truth and reality anymore.

He was very lucky to get away with the asset concealment charges and is scared shitless of some of the serious cases waiting in the courts, like the Krungthai case.

His only recourse is an amnesty whitewash, which he's prepared to screw everyone else in the country for.

You should try doing a bit of research on those "umpteen outstanding cases" - about 15 or so. You might learn things and re-evaluate again.

[Skywalker69]

he will get no justice from the junta that's a fact .

He just need to serve the two years in prison he allready have been sentenced to.

[Keesters]

Reconciliation will start when Taksin returns home to face justice and his jail sentence.

[lucky11]

Thaksin should just keep silence and allow this regime to self destruct. Really no need to prod or instigate; the unhappiness divide is widering and all the PM actions has only solidified and galvanized the Reds support and even the educated neutrals. Thailand history is never kind to the military extending their unwelcome stay. Sooner or later, an election will be held and another Thaksin party will back in power.

When you say the "educated neutrals" I hope you realise that you are painting the Northern regions as being uneducated - I doubt that this was intended but it shows your admittance of the fact!!

[arfurcrown]

But please remember the court decision and sentence was in fact decided under the rule of an old Thaksin owned party and administration.

Have any of you ever thought that in truth the so called friends of Thaksin while happy to take his money really do not want him back as it would destroy their plans and their personal power bases?

[louse1953]

This bloke is as mad as Murdock.Come and do your 2 years,that's justice.It's all to late,you ain't never coming back.

[scorecard]

But please remember the court decision and sentence was in fact decided under the rule of an old Thaksin owned party and administration.

Have any of you ever thought that in truth the so called friends of Thaksin while happy to take his money really do not want him back as it would destroy their plans and their personal power bases?

I'm not so sure about that, he needs the 350 faceless silent immoral faces who sold their names to the devil and received a sizable monthly salary, to ensure he has a silent totally controllable majority, none of them with any ethics.

[mike324]

Are you 100% sure it was the army?

Try the RTP for size. It fits better. After all he had some good family connections there on his wife's side.

According to wikipedia - the source that wikipedia cites seems to be down.

Advance Info Service and later ventures

Main article: Advanced Info Service

Advance Info Service was given a monopoly contract by his contacts in the military in 1986^[15] and operates under GSM 900 frequency.^[22] AIS grew rapidly and became the largest mobile phone operator in Thailand.^[23]

Thaksin got his license to operate GSM 900 in 1986 which was under Military rule then. Correct me if I'm wrong, RTP had not much power back then unless it was a policeman who was holding some top position during the military rule - the details of that I don't know. If you do know who was in charge back then please do share some sources and links!

[Joe Brennan]

This bloke is as mad as Murdock.Come and do your 2 years,that's justice.It's all to late,you ain't never coming back.

The 2-year sentence was yet more Thai judges following orders and not following the law. In fact it was not supported by the law which clearly contradicted the verdict, as was pointed out by many others at the time. Still, some folk continue to find comfort and solace in frothing "convicted of corruption", "2 years", "fugitive from justice" etc etc ad nauseam, and none of that is actually supported by the facts. not that this bothers them one bit. Bah!

Nobody ever went broke under-estimating the intelligence of most people.

Thaksin's crime was something else entirely , and no, I'm not going to say further because if I do I suspect I'll get ducked in double-time.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Joe Brennan

[mike324]

fair is handing a lunch box to the judges? don't think he really knows the meaning of justice when his "war on drugs" which left more than 2000 "drug dealers" dead. Better that Mr. T keep his mouth shut and live peacefully abroad.

Imagine if the 2000 lives lost was under the DEM or General, how many people would cry murderer?

Do you realise that the RTA has killed more Thais than enemy in the past 50 years or so?

Umm, yes I do realize that, that is why I pointed out the "War on Drugs". How the police is one of the main reasons that is holding this country back. Your point is?

I understand your line about the "war on drugs"................but you did mention the "general," so responded with my line........

As we all know, both the RTA and the RTP are specialists in disappearing people......continually, before, after and of course during the TS period.........

I misread, I thought you said RTP hence I responded by saying "I realize that". Implying that RTP are in fact are killing more Thais in the past decade compare to the army.

Hope that clears it up.

[scorecard]

Justice? That's what he fled the country because of if i remember correctly. 2 years jail and umpteen more legitimate charges to hear.

And weird how his brand of justice is only fair if it benefits him, his family or his business interests. In short, total scumbag

Well, I'm probably no more qualified to comment on the 'umpteen more legitimate charges' than you are, but the conviction he was given that I know about and followed at the time (as a critic of Thaksin) was extremely dodgy. Very dodgy indeed. Almost as dodgy as the decisions later handed down to his sister in fact... The dodginess of that decision and the obvious machinations by Prem against Thaksin were a major factor in my re-evaluating what I believed of the man.

There was absolutely nothing dodgy about it. You must have some issue if you followed it and couldn't understand it.

He signed a document, fully knowing it was illegal to do so. He was caught out and then tried to bribe the judges through his lawyer and the pasty boxes. He was convicted and legged it. No appeal, just the usual attempt to claim it was political, which is nonsense.

The only question was the sentence. Was the in accordance with the law or unusually harsh?

He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits. But he uses it against his enemies at when he fancies. He uses the "political" as a get out attempt for any legal action against any of his family and maintains he's never ever done anything wrong. Like many compulsive liars he's lost the ability to know the truth and reality anymore.

He was very lucky to get away with the asset concealment charges and is scared shitless of some of the serious cases waiting in the courts, like the Krungthai case.

His only recourse is an amnesty whitewash, which he's prepared to screw everyone else in the country for.

You should try doing a bit of research on those "umpteen outstanding cases" - about 15 or so. You might learn things and re-evaluate again.

"He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits..."

Example: How many times has he said to the Thai and International press, in CNN, Al Jazeera etc., interviews : 'I have done nothing wrong'. Total bald faces lies with no hesitation and with no conscience.

[samsensam]

if he was smart he'd have come back to thailand years ago, done some jail time in a cushy cell somewhere for a month or so and then got a doctor to say that due to his ailing health he needed to be transferred to house arrest. serve some time at home then become a free man. job done.

[mike324]

Facts from Wikipedia

2003 Thaksin declared a "war on drugs" in which more than 2,500 people died and took a strong-arm approach against the separatist insurgency in the Muslim southern provinces

After selling shares of his corporation worth more than a billion dollars to foreign investors without paying taxes, considerable criticism resulted.

On 21 October 2008, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions ruled that Thaksin, while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction, and sentenced him to two years in jail.

Maybe you are the fool who doesn't check facts

Whether or not that is true, let's theorise that it is. Do you seriously think it makes a jot of difference to his supporters? I don't.

You can't really implicate a high profile figure such as Thaksin if the facts were not true, no need to theorize as the facts are all out on the table.

"War on Drug" - Its True

Tax Evasion - Its not True, as according to law you do not have to pay capital gain tax, when transfer through stock market. The transfer through a lot of shell companies all owned by themselves. It does sound unfair, the law and that is how so many millionaires game the system if you have a good accountant.

"Land Case" - Its True, it s a conflict of interest. You simply can't be PM and have your wife bid on state own land. That is why she did it through another company, that is just shady.

All these don't make a difference to his supporters because Thaksin claim everything against him was "Political" which they believe it is. Most of his supporters don't care too, hence that is where the problem is. Majority of the supporters don't care about the corruption in this country, their problems are already big enough. That is why the society can't move forward.

[scorecard]

This bloke is as mad as Murdock.Come and do your 2 years,that's justice.It's all to late,you ain't never coming back.

The 2-year sentence was yet more Thai judges following orders and not following the law. In fact it was not supported by the law which clearly contradicted the verdict, as was pointed out by many others at the time. Still, some folk continue to find comfort and solace in frothing "convicted of corruption", "2 years", "fugitive from justice" etc etc ad nauseam, and none of that is actually supported by the facts. not that this bothers them one bit. Bah!

Nobody ever went broke under-estimating the intelligence of most people.

Thaksin's crime was something else entirely , and no, I'm not going to say further because if I do I suspect I'll get ducked in double-time.

I will

- Yes, he was not charged / convicted for corruption, but there is a pipeline of further (different) charges in motion...

- Yes he was convicted and sentenced to 2 years in jail for a serious case of abuse of authority, case heard and decided, sentence handed down whilst his own party were in power, he had the opportunity to appeal, he didn't, he fled.

- Not politically motivated.

[Muhendis]

Didn't go much on his brand of justice myself or his idea of wealth distribution either.

The whole post made by Thaksin is aimed at creating fresh trouble

.For all of its faults under the current administration life has been far more peaceful and protest free.

yup 'protest free' and 'democracy free' or had you not noticed that the guys with the GUNS have taken over?

Yup! Just like in the land of the free

[Joe Brennan]

Facts from Wikipedia

2003 Thaksin declared a "war on drugs" in which more than 2,500 people died and took a strong-arm approach against the separatist insurgency in the Muslim southern provinces

After selling shares of his corporation worth more than a billion dollars to foreign investors without paying taxes, considerable criticism resulted.

On 21 October 2008, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions ruled that Thaksin, while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction, and sentenced him to two years in jail.

Maybe you are the fool who doesn't check facts

Whether or not that is true, let's theorise that it is. Do you seriously think it makes a jot of difference to his supporters? I don't.

You can't really implicate a high profile figure such as Thaksin if the facts were not true, no need to theorize as the facts are all out on the table.

"War on Drug" - Its True

Tax Evasion - Its not True, as according to law you do not have to pay capital gain tax, when transfer through stock market. The transfer through a lot of shell companies all owned by themselves. It does sound unfair, the law and that is how so many millionaires game the system if you have a good accountant.

"Land Case" - Its True, it s a conflict of interest. You simply can't be PM and have your wife bid on state own land. That is why she did it through another company, that is just shady.

All these don't make a difference to his supporters because Thaksin claim everything against him was "Political" which they believe it is. Most of his supporters don't care too, hence that is where the problem is. Majority of the supporters don't care about the corruption in this country, their problems are already big enough. That is why the society can't move forward.

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Joe Brennan

[cobbler]

I agree with most of what you say, however ive trusted my thai wife with all my savings many times and she allways makes the right decision. She has made many good business decisions. So not all thais are thieves. Good and bad. Just my experience.

[simon43]

....he and his clan continue to enjoy massive support throughout the country....and this support will be ongoing for ages!

Hence the 'wetting of pants' by the General and cronies, whenever Thaksin passes a comment even remotely related to Thailand. They are in fear of him because he is substantially more popular than the General and 'clan', (which may have something to do with the fact that the General seems to put his foot in it, every time that he makes a public speech).

Until there emerges a new, strong and respected individual, a leader, a politician as popular as Thaksin, the General and mates have zero chance of winning over the populace.

You need an astute businessman (or woman) to manage this country, not a bunch of geriatric military guys.

BTW, before anyone accuses me of being a Thaksin and red-lover, I should comment that I am not. Thaksin was corrupt, which seems to be a characteristic for being in power/government in most developing countries. The difference between Thaksin and the General is that Thaksin was corrupt and an intelligent businessman, and the General is......?????? (I best not complete the sentence)

[mike324]

Facts from Wikipedia

2003 Thaksin declared a "war on drugs" in which more than 2,500 people died and took a strong-arm approach against the separatist insurgency in the Muslim southern provinces

After selling shares of his corporation worth more than a billion dollars to foreign investors without paying taxes, considerable criticism resulted.

On 21 October 2008, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions ruled that Thaksin, while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction, and sentenced him to two years in jail.

Maybe you are the fool who doesn't check facts

Whether or not that is true, let's theorise that it is. Do you seriously think it makes a jot of difference to his supporters? I don't.

You can't really implicate a high profile figure such as Thaksin if the facts were not true, no need to theorize as the facts are all out on the table.

"War on Drug" - Its True

Tax Evasion - Its not True, as according to law you do not have to pay capital gain tax, when transfer through stock market. The transfer through a lot of shell companies all owned by themselves. It does sound unfair, the law and that is how so many millionaires game the system if you have a good accountant.

"Land Case" - Its True, it s a conflict of interest. You simply can't be PM and have your wife bid on state own land. That is why she did it through another company, that is just shady.

All these don't make a difference to his supporters because Thaksin claim everything against him was "Political" which they believe it is. Most of his supporters don't care too, hence that is where the problem is. Majority of the supporters don't care about the corruption in this country, their problems are already big enough. That is why the society can't move forward.

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere.

Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?

[dhream]

How many times has Thaksin promised and sworn he would not get involved in Thai politics anymore? Yeah, right... So what does that make him, on top of being a compulsive liar? How long will he further be allowed to play his evil, egomaniac games? Should he really have to wait until Kharma punishes him?

his Karma is not yours to judge friend and if it's Karma you are talking about 99% of them should be trembling from ALL sides

Karma is utter nonsense that people who should know better insist on believing because there is no other way to exact revenge (QED because karma does not work!) the universe is arbitrary, and unfair.

[billd766]

Are you 100% sure it was the army?

Try the RTP for size. It fits better. After all he had some good family connections there on his wife's side.

According to wikipedia - the source that wikipedia cites seems to be down.

Advance Info Service and later ventures

Main article: Advanced Info Service

Advance Info Service was given a monopoly contract by his contacts in the military in 1986^[15] and operates under GSM 900 frequency.^[22] AIS grew rapidly and became the largest mobile phone operator in Thailand.^[23]

Thaksin got his license to operate GSM 900 in 1986 which was under Military rule then. Correct me if I'm wrong, RTP had not much power back then unless it was a policeman who was holding some top position during the military rule - the details of that I don't know. If you do know who was in charge back then please do share some sources and links!

Thaksin started his businesses (though 3 or 4 failed) by renting computers etc to the Thai police.

The police general who awarded the monopoly contract to him was by a mere coincidence his father in law. That was where he got enough money together to start AIS which until DTAC came along was also a monopoly.

This was just above the AIS link.

Thaksin and his wife began several businesses while he was still in the police, including a silk shop, a cinema, and an apartment building. All were failures and left him over 50 million baht in debt. In 1982 he established ICSI. Using his police contacts, he leased computers to government agencies with modest success. However, later ventures in security systems (SOS) and public bus radio services (Bus Sound) all failed.^[13][14] In April 1986, he founded Advanced Info Service (AIS), which started off as a computer rental business.^[15]

In 1987 Thaksin resigned from the police. He then marketed a romance drama called "Baan Sai Thong", which became a popular success in theatres.^[16][17] In 1988 he joined Pacific Telesis to operate and market the PacLink pager service, a modest success, though Thaksin later sold his shares to establish his own paging company.^[13][18] In 1989 he launched IBC, a cable television company. At that time, Thaksin had a very good relationship with Chalerm Yoobumrung, the Minister of the Prime Minister's Office, who was in charge of Thai press and media. It is an question whether Chalerm granted the right to Thaksin to establish IBC to benefit his close friend, seeing that the project had been denied by the previous administration.^[19] However, it turned out to be a money loser and he eventually merged the company with the CP Group's UTV.^[13][20] In 1989, Thaksin established a data networking service, Shinawatra DataCom,^[13] today known as Advanced Data Network and owned by AIS and the TOT.^[21] Many of Thaksin's businesses were later consolidated as Shin Corp.

[Joe Brennan]

Whether or not that is true, let's theorise that it is. Do you seriously think it makes a jot of difference to his supporters? I don't.

You can't really implicate a high profile figure such as Thaksin if the facts were not true, no need to theorize as the facts are all out on the table.

"War on Drug" - Its True

Tax Evasion - Its not True, as according to law you do not have to pay capital gain tax, when transfer through stock market. The transfer through a lot of shell companies all owned by themselves. It does sound unfair, the law and that is how so many millionaires game the system if you have a good accountant.

"Land Case" - Its True, it s a conflict of interest. You simply can't be PM and have your wife bid on state own land. That is why she did it through another company, that is just shady.

All these don't make a difference to his supporters because Thaksin claim everything against him was "Political" which they believe it is. Most of his supporters don't care too, hence that is where the problem is. Majority of the supporters don't care about the corruption in this country, their problems are already big enough. That is why the society can't move forward.

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere.

Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?

"I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere."

Why? Why discuss at all if you're not prepared to be influenced from a current position? That's the whole purpose of discussion, to learn.

"Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?"

Well, a good start would be to start putting people in prison based on theft not shirt colour. Won't happen though because the whole building is rotten and falling to pieces and nobody will be prepared to step outside of the box of their cultural inheritance (which is exactly what the movers and shakers who shaped Thai society for their own benefit intended - for their own benefit).

But it would be a start. Though imho, it requires the whole building to be demolished and rebuilt by an honest man. Good luck finding one of those in Thailand, you can eliminate anyone with more than 10 million baht in assets for a start.

In my opinion, Thainess is a sickness and needs to be treated as such. The global village will do that in due course anyway but I'm a bit impatient to see results and not just hear talk.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Joe Brennan

[billd766]

if he was smart he'd have come back to thailand years ago, done some jail time in a cushy cell somewhere for a month or so and then got a doctor to say that due to his ailing health he needed to be transferred to house arrest. serve some time at home then become a free man. job done.

The problem with that is that convicted criminals are not allowed to stand for elections, however those who have a royal pardon are allowed to do so. The problem is that you must have served an amount of your sentence and be genuinely repentant.

Thaksin would fail on both counts.

[Joe Brennan]

if he was smart he'd have come back to thailand years ago, done some jail time in a cushy cell somewhere for a month or so and then got a doctor to say that due to his ailing health he needed to be transferred to house arrest. serve some time at home then become a free man. job done.

The problem with that is that convicted criminals are not allowed to stand for elections, however those who have a royal pardon are allowed to do so. The problem is that you must have served an amount of your sentence and be genuinely repentant.

Thaksin would fail on both counts.

True enough. Being repentant implies acceptance of wrong-doing. Not the Sino-Thai way.

[Thai at Heart]

Facts from Wikipedia

2003 Thaksin declared a "war on drugs" in which more than 2,500 people died and took a strong-arm approach against the separatist insurgency in the Muslim southern provinces

After selling shares of his corporation worth more than a billion dollars to foreign investors without paying taxes, considerable criticism resulted.

On 21 October 2008, the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions ruled that Thaksin, while prime minister, abused his power to help his wife buy public land at auction, and sentenced him to two years in jail.

Maybe you are the fool who doesn't check facts

Whether or not that is true, let's theorise that it is. Do you seriously think it makes a jot of difference to his supporters? I don't.

You can't really implicate a high profile figure such as Thaksin if the facts were not true, no need to theorize as the facts are all out on the table.

"War on Drug" - Its True

Tax Evasion - Its not True, as according to law you do not have to pay capital gain tax, when transfer through stock market. The transfer through a lot of shell companies all owned by themselves. It does sound unfair, the law and that is how so many millionaires game the system if you have a good accountant.

"Land Case" - Its True, it s a conflict of interest. You simply can't be PM and have your wife bid on state own land. That is why she did it through another company, that is just shady.

All these don't make a difference to his supporters because Thaksin claim everything against him was "Political" which they believe it is. Most of his supporters don't care too, hence that is where the problem is. Majority of the supporters don't care about the corruption in this country, their problems are already big enough. That is why the society can't move forward.

I don't agree. The higher up you appear to be in Thai society (and in Thailand, appearance is everything and trumps everything, including competence, the more people will want to please you by doing what you want them to do.

Hence, justice is only justice if you're rich and someone smiles upon you. Courts are there to do what someone wants.,, not what the l;aw says - because the law is only there to subjugate people, not to guarantee a workable society. And yes of course, elected governments and the people who elect them only ride the horse, they don't own the horse, and it doesn't matter what the Constitution says, it was written by drones who want to please someone else and is deliberately so vague and woolly it can mean whatever someone wants it to mean.

So I'm afraid your rather touching reliance on the effectiveness of law and justice in Thailand reveals the real level of your understanding of 'Thainess'.

As for the land case, you say you simply can't be PM and have your wife bid for land. Unfortunately that isn't what Thai law said and still says, but of course the law wasn't written with Thaksin in mind, it was written for other kleptomaniacs, those on whom someone smiles.

As for the war on drugs, the police were certainly out of control. But to whom do the police, and the Army for that matter report? The PM? Why Thaksin didn't do anything useful about Tak Bai isn't because he didn't want to, he hated the army chief of the day and would have seized any opportunity to sack him because he knew who the army chief of the day was loyal to, but he just wasn't able to. Do I hear you ask why? I could tell you but I'm not going to for fear of being ducked.

I will grant you Thaksin was a thief and a scoundrel, I've never said any different, but he was not uniquely so, Thailand is full of corruption, thieves and scoundrels, from the bottom to the top. It's the Thai way. Every Thai I've ever met is either a thief or wants to become one if they can avoid the consequences by either anonymity or powerful mates who owe them a favour, and a personal relationship is the only thing you can rely on to stop them thieving from you or cheating you (which is much the same thing). Doesn't matter where you are, its a cultural thing they just can't seem to grow out of.

No, Thaksin was singled out for special treatment for a particular reason and its not hard to figure out what hat reason was, there's enough in the Thai newspapers and between the Thai lines to very clearly inform us all what that was.

So I apologise, but the whole 'Thaksin was the devil and everything that's wrong in Thailand is his fault' dog just doesn't hunt.

For anything in Thailand, you need to dig deeper my friend. Trust your uncle Joe about this, it's 100% solid gold.

I agree with most of the stuff you say, but I won't try to debate the other points as it gets us nowhere.

Thailand is full of corruption, but where to do we start? Thaksin is not the most evil but people start to raise their eyebrows during his premiership, society want change. Are we suppose to turn back the clock to the 70s and 80s and start from there then?

People started raising their eyebrows?

A very small bunch of people funded Sondhi to create the yellow and the rest is history.

[CantSpell]

Webfact post # 12

Interesting to see how the man flaunts his wealth while his supporters live on 10% of what he pays for a Tshirt or a pair of pants..

Wonderful to be able to rub the noses of your supporters into the dirt isn't it!!

Ans why isnt this instagram page blocked by the IT Ministry?

Totally agree with that..

This guy has no shame, no heart for his country and its people, just after the money like a freaking greedy capitalist....

Should block all of his postings...

I don't particularly like either the Dems, the military, the red, yellow or any corrupted faction but this guy is really sick....

Just stirring up trouble on a daily basis...

And some gullible will follow and more people might die or get hurt or get arrested...

[glenmohr]

Someone other than brave students need to remind people that this country is in a depressing, undemocratic, Totalitarian mess right now, so good on him.

I agree with your first part, the only problem being that the people who should be speaking out are too scared of being "adjusted" or arrested for sedition or worse. As well as being a convicted criminal, Thaksin is too divisive to be the inspirational voice of reason needed to mobilize bi-partisan public action.

It is highly likely that Thailand would be better off if Thaksin retired completely from Thai politics, just too divisive. The main problem in Thailand that whoever fills the vacuum that Thaksin would leave by departing the scene would be equally divisive. There is actually no way of solving the divisive bit although a form of democracy would allow some to let off steam which is currently against the laws. The divide in Thailand has been totally entrenched and set in concrete by the elite since the days of Siam. The elitists ain;t going to share power via a democratic system therefore the divisions continue. The rural young are much better educated than their parents and that too will only increase the division as they become more aware of how other societies work and are structured.

This concept of the current administration, who exist and function purely to destroy one family, is hardly going to reconcile anything. The division will continue and ultimately get worse until there is some empowerment granted to the citizens. The whole business is an undignified and mad scramble over who gets the 40 billion dollars.

[Joe Brennan]

Justice? That's what he fled the country because of if i remember correctly. 2 years jail and umpteen more legitimate charges to hear.

And weird how his brand of justice is only fair if it benefits him, his family or his business interests. In short, total scumbag

Well, I'm probably no more qualified to comment on the 'umpteen more legitimate charges' than you are, but the conviction he was given that I know about and followed at the time (as a critic of Thaksin) was extremely dodgy. Very dodgy indeed. Almost as dodgy as the decisions later handed down to his sister in fact... The dodginess of that decision and the obvious machinations by Prem against Thaksin were a major factor in my re-evaluating what I believed of the man.

There was absolutely nothing dodgy about it. You must have some issue if you followed it and couldn't understand it.

He signed a document, fully knowing it was illegal to do so. He was caught out and then tried to bribe the judges through his lawyer and the pasty boxes. He was convicted and legged it. No appeal, just the usual attempt to claim it was political, which is nonsense.

The only question was the sentence. Was the in accordance with the law or unusually harsh?

He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits. But he uses it against his enemies at when he fancies. He uses the "political" as a get out attempt for any legal action against any of his family and maintains he's never ever done anything wrong. Like many compulsive liars he's lost the ability to know the truth and reality anymore.

He was very lucky to get away with the asset concealment charges and is scared shitless of some of the serious cases waiting in the courts, like the Krungthai case.

His only recourse is an amnesty whitewash, which he's prepared to screw everyone else in the country for.

You should try doing a bit of research on those "umpteen outstanding cases" - about 15 or so. You might learn things and re-evaluate again.

"He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits..."

Example: How many times has he said to the Thai and International press, in CNN, Al Jazeera etc., interviews : 'I have done nothing wrong'. Total bald faces lies with no hesitation and with no conscience.

Hmmm. So what did he do that was wrong then? In your opinion?

[glenmohr]

Justice? That's what he fled the country because of if i remember correctly. 2 years jail and umpteen more legitimate charges to hear.

And weird how his brand of justice is only fair if it benefits him, his family or his business interests. In short, total scumbag

Well, I'm probably no more qualified to comment on the 'umpteen more legitimate charges' than you are, but the conviction he was given that I know about and followed at the time (as a critic of Thaksin) was extremely dodgy. Very dodgy indeed. Almost as dodgy as the decisions later handed down to his sister in fact... The dodginess of that decision and the obvious machinations by Prem against Thaksin were a major factor in my re-evaluating what I believed of the man.

There was absolutely nothing dodgy about it. You must have some issue if you followed it and couldn't understand it.

He signed a document, fully knowing it was illegal to do so. He was caught out and then tried to bribe the judges through his lawyer and the pasty boxes. He was convicted and legged it. No appeal, just the usual attempt to claim it was political, which is nonsense.

The only question was the sentence. Was the in accordance with the law or unusually harsh?

He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits. But he uses it against his enemies at when he fancies. He uses the "political" as a get out attempt for any legal action against any of his family and maintains he's never ever done anything wrong. Like many compulsive liars he's lost the ability to know the truth and reality anymore.

He was very lucky to get away with the asset concealment charges and is scared shitless of some of the serious cases waiting in the courts, like the Krungthai case.

His only recourse is an amnesty whitewash, which he's prepared to screw everyone else in the country for.

You should try doing a bit of research on those "umpteen outstanding cases" - about 15 or so. You might learn things and re-evaluate again.

"He believed (and still does) that he and his family are above the law and can openly lie, purger and disregard it whenever it suits..."

Example: How many times has he said to the Thai and International press, in CNN, Al Jazeera etc., interviews : 'I have done nothing wrong'. Total bald faces lies with no hesitation and with no conscience.

" Above the law" Everybody in Thailand, Scorecard, is above the law. Go stand by a stop light in Thailand and you will learn in less than 10 seconds.

By the way it is against the criminal code in Thailand to overthrow an elected government and who has ever been punished for the 19 or 20 coups, I lost count.

Some people just don;t get it, Thainess means not apologising, not admitting fault and being above the law. In spite of his Chinese ancestry Thakisn is Thai and true to Thainess.

[Kangaloo]

That's rich coming from him

Cannot even face up to his wrong doings

How many people were murdered with his " War on Drugs" ????