Bloodshed continues in occupied West Bank

[webfact]

Bloodshed continues in occupied West Bank



JERUSALEM: -- Israeli police shot dead a Palestinian who had stabbed an IDF soldier at a military checkpoint on Thursday (October 29) as a month-long spate of attacks showed no signs of abating.

The incident happened near a religious site in Hebron revered by Jews and Muslims and comes one day after hundreds attended the funeral of an American-Israeli who was wounded during a knife attack by two Palestinians on board a Jerusalem bus.

Palestinian appeal to UN Human Rights Council

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas appealed to the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) in Geneva on Wednesday to intervene and diffuse the violence.

“We want your protection. We want the protection of the world. We can no longer bear all these punishments and attacks carried out by the [israeli] settlers and Israeli army,” Abbas said.

Israel’s Ambassador to the UNHRC said that Abbas’s speech “glorified” violence against Israelis and “fanned the flames of the conflict.”

Since the latest wave began on October 1, at least 62 Palestinians have been shot dead by Israelis in the West Bank and in Gaza. Of those, 35 were assailants armed mainly with knives and in some cases with guns, Israel has said. Many were teenagers.

Eleven Israelis have been killed in stabbings and shootings.

‘Extreme and Unlawful measures’ condemned by Amnesty

Amnesty International says some of the killings of the Palestinians were unjustified and that Israeli forces were using “extreme and unlawful measures”. Israel says it has a right to use lethal force to stop attempts to kill its citizens.

-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-10-30

[webfact]

Divided Hebron, West Bank largest city, focus of violence
By KARIN LAUB and MOHAMMED DARAGHMEH

HEBRON, West Bank (AP) — The West Bank's largest city has become a focal point of Israeli-Palestinian violence, with near-daily deadly confrontations erupting at Israeli army checkpoints that guard enclaves of Jewish settlers in the once-thriving center of Hebron.

One-third of 58 Palestinians killed by Israeli fire since mid-September were in Hebron, including two Palestinians shot dead on Thursday. Eleven Israelis were killed in Palestinian attacks, mostly stabbings, over the same period, though none in Hebron.

Israel says nearly all of those killed in Hebron were knife-wielding attackers, but rights groups have challenged that, saying some did not pose a threat to soldiers' lives.

The events in Hebron are central to the Israeli-Palestinian clash of narratives over the latest violence.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's government portrays the spate of Palestinian attacks as a "wave of terror" whipped up by anti-Israeli Palestinian incitement.

Netanyahu's critics say this ignores the underlying cause — nearly a half-century of Israeli military rule, with no end in sight. Palestinians "don't grow up with knives in their hands," said Yehuda Shaul, a peace activist and former Israeli combat soldier in Hebron.

Israeli military occupation is felt in its rawest form in this city of 270,000 Palestinians, whose downtown remains under exclusive Israeli control.

There, hundreds of troops guard 850 settlers, making it the only Palestinian population center in the West Bank with a major Israeli army presence. Friction is amplified by what Palestinians and Israeli rights activists say is systematic harassment by settlers.

"People are boiling — more settler violence, no hope," said Palestinian activist Issa Amro.

Settler spokesman Noam Arnon blames the violence on what he contends is the Palestinians' refusal to accept the presence of Jews and their historic roots in Hebron.

A small group of Palestinian attackers "wants to destroy the life of Jews and Arabs" in the city, he said. He dismissed allegations of systematic settler violence, portraying Palestinians as the main aggressors.

Another ingredient in Hebron's combustible mix is a major shrine that was divided into separate prayer areas for Muslims and Jews in 1995, a year after a settler killed 29 Muslims in a shooting rampage there.

Known to Jews as the Tomb of the Patriarchs, it marks the traditional burial sites of biblical patriarchs. Muslims call it the Ibrahimi Mosque, after Abraham, one of the patriarchs.

The latest violence began in Jerusalem, driven in part by Palestinian fears that Israel plans to divide a major contested shrine there like it did in Hebron. Israel denies such claims.

Initially, many of the attacks involved Palestinians from Arab neighborhoods of Jerusalem. After Israel erected roadblocks in Jerusalem earlier this month, restricting the movement of Palestinians, the momentum shifted to traditionally volatile Hebron.

An interim agreement in the 1990s divided the city, placing the center under full Israeli control and the rest under Palestinian self-rule. The fate of the Hebron settlers was left to a final Israeli-Palestinian peace deal that never materialized. Instead, settlers moved into more buildings and Israel tightened security controls, leading to the current separation regime.

About 10,000 Palestinians live in the area closest to the settler enclaves that are guarded by 18 army checkpoints, said Amro, the Palestinian activist. Palestinians can only use certain streets, while areas near settler compounds are off limits, he said. Hundreds of small businesses and workshops in the area had to close because customers could no longer reach them.

On Wednesday, the area near the shrine, in the Israeli-controlled zone, was largely deserted. Israeli troops manned a nearby metal turnstile, checking the IDs of Palestinians entering from the Palestinian self-rule zone.

But by late afternoon, word spread that a Palestinian had been shot and killed at an Israeli checkpoint; the army later said he had tried to stab a soldier. Troops sealed the area to journalists, making it impossible to interview witnesses. The boom of tear gas canisters fired by soldiers at Palestinian stone-throwers reverberated across Hebron.

Over the next 20 hours, two more Palestinians were shot dead in similar circumstances. One was killed Thursday after slightly injuring a soldier and the other in an attempted stabbing attack on a soldier, the military said.

Palestinian and international rights groups say there are mounting suspicions that in some cases, Israeli troops used lethal force when their lives weren't in danger. Amnesty International said four shootings it investigated, including three in Hebron, "appear to have been extra-judicial executions."

Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, an Israeli military spokesman, rejected the allegation.

"Outrageous, unsubstantiated and anonymous claims have become a knee-jerk Palestinian response in a reality where Israelis have been stabbed, slashed, shot, butchered and run over in recent weeks," he said. "This conveniently redirects the focus from the reality of the threat and the real victims of Palestinian incitement, violence and terror."

One case cited by Amnesty involved 17-year-old Dania Ersheid, a high school senior who was shot dead by Israeli border police this week as she tried to enter the Muslim section of the Hebron shrine.

Israeli police said she pulled out a knife and screamed at Israeli troops, who opened fire. Amnesty, citing unidentified witnesses, said she was shot as she raised her hands during a security check, yelling at border police that she did not have a knife. "She was not posing a threat to Israeli forces when she was shot," the rights group said.

The girl's father, Jihad, said his daughter was preparing for school exams, including taking after-school English lessons, and that he does not believe she intended to carry out a stabbing.

Another Palestinian teen, 16-year-old Tareq Natshe, stabbed and wounded a soldier on Oct. 17, before being shot dead. His mother, Aishe, said he wanted to avenge a friend who was shot dead hours earlier in what the military said was an attempted stabbing.

"I am proud, not sad," she said, a button with her son's photo pinned to her chest.

The family has a long list of grievances, the mother said. Her father, Aref, who survived the Hebron mosque massacre, had to close his metal workshop in the restricted zone and the family had to move out of their home to escape constant friction with settlers.

Palestinian officials say Israel is still holding the bodies of the two teens, along with those of 14 others killed in recent weeks in the Hebron area, even though speedy burial is a requirement of Islam, as it is in Judaism.

Their parents said not being able to bury their children has been difficult to bear.

In an era of omnipresent social media, they are also surrounded by gruesome images of their dead children. A photo of Dania shows her lying on the ground with a blood-soaked white headscarf. An image of Tareq depicts him on his back, his blue shirt pulled up and a soldier's boot on his right shoulder.

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.
___

Associated Press writers Nasser Shiyoukhi in Hebron and Josef Federman in Jerusalem contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-10-30

[Seastallion]

"Israel says it has a right to use lethal force to stop attempts to kill its citizens."

Ok, I agree with that. But what of the (around) 50% of Palestinians killed that were NOT assailants????????????

[RockyBeerbelly]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

[arfurcrown]

Since the latest wave began on October 1, at least 62 Palestinians have been shot dead by Israelis in the West Bank and in Gaza. Of those, 35 were assailants armed mainly with knives and in some cases with guns, Israel has said. Many were teenagers.

Eleven Israelis have been killed in stabbings and shootings.

The kill ratio of 5*63 Palestinian deaths as opposed to 0*177 Israelis deaths is indeed a very potent indicator of the brutality and the terrorist tactic activities employed by some members of the I.D.F.

The blatant brutality and terrorism is on show for the to the whole world to see, yet the blind apologists for the Zionist Likud regime refuse to open their eyes to the truth.

Any peace move no matter where it may spring from is a step in the right direction which will hopefully bring peace to the area, all involved have to bend in the wind.

The Zionist need to come to realise and understand that in time their actions will come back to them with a vengeance if they will not or do not sit down and talk and follow and implement the agreement recommendations, that also applies to the Palestinians too. Do not.Ignore the outstanding list from the U.N. nor any recommendations that may be made.

The wailing and the gnashing of teeth concerning the claimed sufferings of the Jews over the years has been and still is never ending,

Why don't those in power now query why such situations arose?

Perhaps the behavior pattern of those people in the time past and even now as we read this forum brought on the calamities that they claim have befallen them then and even now.

Edited October 30, 2015 by arfurcrown

[dave_boo]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

Don't like religions period; but Islam particularly so please tell me what race Islam is so I know whom I am racist towards. Is it European, African, Arab, Persian, Oriental, or ...?

As far as Breaking the Silence; quite a small group considering the pool they can be pulled from. Would be interesting to see how their numbers compare to other groups in other countries that can be classified as self loathing groups.

[dave_boo]

Since the latest wave began on October 1, at least 62 Palestinians have been shot dead by Israelis in the West Bank and in Gaza. Of those, 35 were assailants armed mainly with knives and in some cases with guns, Israel has said. Many were teenagers.

Eleven Israelis have been killed in stabbings and shootings.

The kill ratio of 5*63 Palestinian deaths as opposed to 0*177 Israelis deaths is indeed a very potent indicator of the brutality and the terrorist tactic activities emloyed by some members of the IDF

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." - George S. Patton

[hugh2121]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

[hugh2121]

Since the latest wave began on October 1, at least 62 Palestinians have been shot dead by Israelis in the West Bank and in Gaza. Of those, 35 were assailants armed mainly with knives and in some cases with guns, Israel has said. Many were teenagers.

Eleven Israelis have been killed in stabbings and shootings.

The kill ratio of 5*63 Palestinian deaths as opposed to 0*177 Israelis deaths is indeed a very potent indicator of the brutality and the terrorist tactic activities employed by some members of the I.D.F.

The blatant brutality and terrorism is on show for the to the whole world to see, yet the blind apologists for the Zionist Likud regime refuse to open their eyes to the truth.

Any peace move no matter where it may spring from is a step in the right direction which will hopefully bring peace to the area, all involved have to bend in the wind.

The Zionist need to come to realise and understand that in time their actions will come back to them with a vengeance if they will not or do not sit down and talk and follow and implement the agreement recommendations, that also applies to the Palestinians too. Do not.Ignore the outstanding list from the U.N. nor any recommendations that may be made.

The wailing and the gnashing of teeth concerning the claimed sufferings of the Jews over the years has been and still is never ending,

Why don't those in power now query why such situations arose?

Perhaps the behavior pattern of those people in the time past and even now as we read this forum brought on the calamities that they claim have befallen them then and even now.

arfurcrown, I would be interested to hear your definition of the word "terrorist". Yes, Israel responds brutally to Palestinian terrorism but it is fighting for it's very existence after being attacked previously by massed *******.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

Don't like religions period; but Islam particularly so please tell me what race Islam is so I know whom I am racist towards. Is it European, African, Arab, Persian, Oriental, or ...?

As far as Breaking the Silence; quite a small group considering the pool they can be pulled from. Would be interesting to see how their numbers compare to other groups in other countries that can be classified as self loathing groups.

Is your reply an confirmation that its not about Israel, but your hate of Islam? I never suggested Islam is a race. Its just that most of the Islam haters are also racists. Is it generalizing? Sure! But I am afraid its not too far from the truth unfortunately......

The size of Breaking the Silence is absolutely not relevant. Its about the information that is finally revealed. And of course the majority of the IDF doesn't come out and reveal that truth. My guess is that its partly because they are brainwashed and partly because they are ashamed of the blood on their hands. Wrt the other "self Loathing groups" you mean something like a group of Hutu soldiers that come out and talk about the rape of Tutsi women? Or a "self Loathing group" of WWII Nazis who have shown remorse?

[RockyBeerbelly]

Simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to kill Jews. Then Israel would not have anything to retaliate over. Israel is perfectly willing to live in peace if it's neighbours would cease trying to completely destroy their homeland and kill all the Jews. Crying because you started a fight and finished with a bloody nose doesn't wash.

Nobody mentions J K Rowling's lunatic raving on TV so I will. It's just what one would expect from a writer of fantasy fiction.

Simple solution is for Israel to follow Oslo agreement, accept a two state solution and stop the illegal occupation of Palestine, and there is no longer resistance against the fascist Israeli necessary.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel IS following the Oslo Agreement. The Palestinians are trying to get around their commitment as usual by declaring themselves a country without negotiating with Israel.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[RockyBeerbelly]

Israel IS following the Oslo Agreement. The Palestinians are trying to get around their commitment as usual by declaring themselves a country without negotiating with Israel.

Wasnt the rejection to the two state solution part of the reason why your beloved Nethanyahu won the last elections in March? Or have you conveniently forgotten the reality again. The negotiation were done during the Oslo meetings, actions were next, but Israel never intended to keep to the agreements...

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and reply removed

[arfurcrown]

oncearugge.post # 14

Just another rant from Mr K.

He is well known for making these provocative claims and has been doing so for years.

He never quite manages to support any of his allegations with proof.

well he certainly has a bit more clout than you.

He is being quoted in a National Newspaper where does your influence figure in the fourth estate?

[Ulysses G.]

He is being quoted in a National Newspaper

All kinds of nut cases are quoted in national newspapers ever single day.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[arfurcrown]

UlyssesG post # 16

Posted 20 minutes ago

arfurcrown, on 30 Oct 2015 - 12:29, said:

He is being quoted in a National Newspaper

All kinds of nut cases are quoted in national newspapers ever single day.

Benjamin ''Bibi'' Netanyahu being the nut case most often mentioned.

[dave_boo]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

Is your reply an confirmation that its not about Israel, but your hate of Islam? I never suggested Islam is a race. Its just that most of the Islam haters are also racists. Is it generalizing? Sure! But I am afraid its not too far from the truth unfortunately......

The size of Breaking the Silence is absolutely not relevant. Its about the information that is finally revealed. And of course the majority of the IDF doesn't come out and reveal that truth. My guess is that its partly because they are brainwashed and partly because they are ashamed of the blood on their hands. Wrt the other "self Loathing groups" you mean something like a group of Hutu soldiers that come out and talk about the rape of Tutsi women? Or a "self Loathing group" of WWII Nazis who have shown remorse?

It is in fact about supporting the only democracy in the region that supports the rights of its law abiding citizens up to allowing MPs that openly call for their nation's destruction.

You did call anti-Islam it's racist.

just Islam hating racists

So unless you believe that only brown folks are Islamic, one can't be racist by being against this particular ideology.

The size is extremely relevant. Fringe nut jobs make up small percentage's of any population. Of course we are all guilty of overlooking things when the over arching ideals support our beliefs.

Attempting to conflate IDF's defence of their countrymen with either REAL attempts at genocide is definitely the realm of the intellectually lazy or disingenuous.

[dexterm]

Shaul, the former soldier and co-founder of Breaking The Silence, a group that collects testimony from army veterans about abuses by troops in the Palestinian territories, said nothing justifies deadly Palestinian attacks, but that public debate in Israel lacks context.

"Anyone who does not understand that the word occupation needs to be at the beginning, middle and end of every sentence (about the current situation) is lying to himself and to the Israeli public," he said.

Its so liberating to read a comment from "Breaking The Silence" for once. If only the TV members who so strongly and openly support the fascist policies of the Likud party would take the time to listen to these people who experienced the atrocities of the Israeli gestapo first hand, their views might change over night (that is if these TV members are really supportive of Israel and not just Islam hating racists, as many of them here are of course). Unfortunately most of the Nethanyahu lovers have their heads so far op their arse that they ignore any news outside the Fox headlines and whipe away the truth with yelling "Leftish-liberal blatant lies"

Is your reply an confirmation that its not about Israel, but your hate of Islam? I never suggested Islam is a race. Its just that most of the Islam haters are also racists. Is it generalizing? Sure! But I am afraid its not too far from the truth unfortunately......

The size of Breaking the Silence is absolutely not relevant. Its about the information that is finally revealed. And of course the majority of the IDF doesn't come out and reveal that truth. My guess is that its partly because they are brainwashed and partly because they are ashamed of the blood on their hands. Wrt the other "self Loathing groups" you mean something like a group of Hutu soldiers that come out and talk about the rape of Tutsi women? Or a "self Loathing group" of WWII Nazis who have shown remorse?

It is in fact about supporting the only democracy in the region that supports the rights of its law abiding citizens up to allowing MPs that openly call for their nation's destruction.

You did call anti-Islam it's racist.

just Islam hating racists

So unless you believe that only brown folks are Islamic, one can't be racist by being against this particular ideology.

The size is extremely relevant. Fringe nut jobs make up small percentage's of any population. Of course we are all guilty of overlooking things when the over arching ideals support our beliefs.

Attempting to conflate IDF's defence of their countrymen with either REAL attempts at genocide is definitely the realm of the intellectually lazy or disingenuous.

I have nothing against the IDF defending their own countrymen, so long as they do it in their own country, and not as the OP clearly states in "Occupied West Bank"

It is pefectly acceptable for Palestinians to resist Zionists who are part of an invading army...pretty brave of them IMO considering how heavily armed the invading israelis are.

Personally I favor passive resistance and shaming Israel before the world with images on the social media of the daily humiliations, beatings and murders they suffer at the hands of the occupying IDF and fanatical Zionist squattters. But I can understand Palestinian frustrations with 22 years of futile negotiations after the Oslo Accords that have given them nothing at all, except Israeli stone walling and further entrenched Israel expansion and colonization.

Edited October 30, 2015 by dexterm

[wabothai]

Get the hell out of occupied territory and there will be no bloodshed, and while you are at it change your warmonger leadership.

We all know your excuses so no need to repeat them dear members.

[up-country_sinclair]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

[up-country_sinclair]

Israel IS following the Oslo Agreement.

Netanyahu said that a Palestinian state would never be formed on his watch.

Please do explain how that "IS following the Oslo Agreement ".

[Seastallion]

Why won't the occupiers allow for UN peacekeepers to attempt to stop the violence?

They don't want credible witnesses.

According to Sir Gerald Kaufman, a Jew and a British Member of Parliament, around half of the recent reports of Palestinian knife attacks are fabricated.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

[johna]

Labour MP Sir Gerald Kaufman has allegedly accused Israel of fabricating some recent stories about knife attacks against Jews in Israel, and claimed the Conservative party is influenced by "Jewish money," in a speech at a pro-Palestine event at Parliament.

The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

[uksomchai]

How can the Israelis claim they simply acting in self defence when they are going round and blowing up the houses of the attackers they have already shot dead ? I'm all for them defending themselves but this is pushing defence to the limit yet they get away with it on the international stage

[Jingthing]

Labour MP Sir Gerald Kaufman has allegedly accused Israel of fabricating some recent stories about knife attacks against Jews in Israel, and claimed the Conservative party is influenced by "Jewish money," in a speech at a pro-Palestine event at Parliament.

The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-gerald-kaufman-accuses-government-of-being-swayed-by-jewish-money-a6712796.html

News flash. Self hating Jews do exist.

He believes Palestinian propaganda lies verbatim.

Some more background on the atrocious Sir K:

Jewish money. An evening with the PRC, Kaufman and classic antisemitic libels

This isn’t about Israel, this isn’t part of the conflict, this is classic Jewish conspiracy theories, this is NAZI talk. The hidden Jews controlling the world. Jewish money buying permission to kill children. Classic antisemitic libel played out in-public in 2015, politicians present and nobody in the room says a word. I actually felt physically sick. I wasn’t sitting in some dark room in a hidden building in a far away town listening to people whispering amongst themselves, I was sitting on the central estate of one of the greatest democracies on the earth with Westminister Station but 10 meters away.

http://david-collier.com/?p=1336

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

How can the Israelis claim they simply acting in self defence when they are going round and blowing up the houses of the attackers they have already shot dead ? I'm all for them defending themselves but this is pushing defence to the limit yet they get away with it on the international stage

That's a valid criticism. Some of the policies used to punish the terrorist's families such as you mention and also things like not returning bodies are justifiably very controversial. You do have to question the wisdom of that. That said, stop the terrorist attacks on Jews, and that wouldn't be something requiring any debate.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[uksomchai]

How can the Israelis claim they simply acting in self defence when they are going round and blowing up the houses of the attackers they have already shot dead ? I'm all for them defending themselves but this is pushing defence to the limit yet they get away with it on the international stage

That's a valid criticism. Some of the policies used to punish the terrorist's families such as you mention and also things like not returning bodies are justifiably very controversial. You do have to question the wisdom of that. That said, stop the terrorist attacks on Jews, and that wouldn't be something requiring any debate.

What about the israelis taking the moral high ground though ? One side has to give and as said defending your country and its people are fine but going further isn't on Why can't we all just live and let live ? Worship who you like and believe in who you like but just stop killing each other for it

[Jingthing]

Moral high ground? I don't know what you're talking about now. If terrorists come to stab you, there are consequences. Duh!

Why can't we live and let live?

How am I supposed to answer that simplistic, naive question?

The person to ask is the brainwashed Palestinian terrorist who believes the incitement lies of his religious and political leaders telling him that Israel is changing the status quo at the Temple Mount.

uksomchai, you sound like a good hearted guy, but the tone of your posts indicates a very, very shallow understanding of the complexities of the long historical conflict between the Jewish people and the Arab/Muslim world. This conflict is way beyond anything that can be fixed with sentimental cliches.

Not pretending that I have the answers though. The obvious answer is two state solution but the truth is there isn't the political leadership on EITHER SIDE to make that happen, and things have obviously gone backwards on that hope in recent years.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[uksomchai]

Moral high ground? I don't know what you're talking about now. If terrorists come to stab you, there are consequences. Duh!

Why can't we live and let live?

How am I supposed to answer that juvenile, simplistic, naive question?

The person to ask is the brainwashed Palestinian terrorist who believes the incitement lies of his religious and political leaders telling him that Israel is changing the status quo at the Temple Mount.

Ah back to the old JT.

The moral high ground is not shooting someone with a high calibre rifle who has a knife or not shooting unarmed women or not blowing up their family homes or not returning their bodies etc etc etc. But hey disagree with you and I will be simply an anti semite.

Live and let live is the opposite of the Israeli way. The Israeli method seems to be kill and let kill. That seems to be your answer Carry on with your rants here You obviously have a very set opinion as usual