Din Kee Peet

[carlyai]

We are going to put some Malay grass down.

Travelled to the grass area outside Bangkok a few months ago and talked to the grass grower and supplier that we will use, I think.

To prepare for the Malay turf, he said to put down a cover of 'din kee peet' or to my Thai translation it is 'duck shit and sand' I would guess.

People say 'it's everywhere', but I don't remember seeing piles of it in garden places.

So is it 'duck shit mixed with sand' or chicken shit mixed with sand or black soil, and is it delivered by truck or packed in those small chaff bags?

I can buy bags of that black soil and bags of chicken shit but can't remember seeing the 'din kee peet'.

Any ideas?

[Allgeier]

Maybe you try this in google

มูลเป็ดดิน มูล เป็ด ดิน = mun bhedt din = poo duck soil

[carlyai]

Maybe you try this in google

มูลเป็ดดิน มูล เป็ด ดิน = mun bhedt din = poo duck soil

Thanks for that.

So I have to go to an agricultural shop that sells the duck soil in bags?

Just another point on the Thai language, I can read a bit of Thai, but don't know how to go from my rough translation of 'din kee peet' to writing it in Thai so that I can Google it.

How did you go from 'din kee peet' to 'มูลเป็ดดิน"?

Thanks

[drtreelove]

Whatever manure product you use, duck, chicken, wua; make sure it is not raw manure or it can burn ya Malaysia, which from my experience is quite sensitive. Buy composted material. A layer of the stuff you mention, on top of the native soil, sounds like a shortcut to a fast start and green up for appearances. But without thorough prep with lots of organic matter tilled in to 6" depth, the healthy green look of the turf will be short lived. The better the soil preparation the better the lawn you will have for a longer period of time. Organic matter holds soil moisture, decomposes and builds soil biology, which acts to slow-release Nitrogen and other nutrients.

The ya Malaysia lawn over which I'm doing some tree work in the attached photos, is one corner of a very large lawn in Sarapee, Chiang Mai. It looked so lush, healthy and green, I asked the property owner what he uses to fertilize; he said he hasn't fertilized in two or three years since he put it in, but he had several truck loads of compost dug in for the soil preparation before laying the sod.

[carlyai]

Whatever manure product you use, duck, chicken, wua; make sure it is not raw manure or it can burn ya Malaysia, which from my experience is quite sensitive. Buy composted material. A layer of the stuff you mention, on top of the native soil, sounds like a shortcut to a fast start and green up for appearances. But without thorough prep with lots of organic matter tilled in to 6" depth, the healthy green look of the turf will be short lived. The better the soil preparation the better the lawn you will have for a longer period of time. Organic matter holds soil moisture, decomposes and builds soil biology, which acts to slow-release Nitrogen and other nutrients.

The ya Malaysia lawn over which I'm doing some tree work in the attached photos, is one corner of a very large lawn in Sarapee, Chiang Mai. It looked so lush, healthy and green, I asked the property owner what he uses to fertilize; he said he hasn't fertilized in two or three years since he put it in, but he had several truck loads of compost dug in for the soil preparation before laying the sod.

Thanks for that.

We did fill the yard with (what was supposed to be) good soil from the top of a rice paddy. But, as another member has told me, I should have been at the site to see exactly where the soil came from as the under soil is barren as you well know.

The farmers who should be in the know, said our dirt is good, but I'm not too sure.

I've gota level off the yard before I put in the grass, and that should be about 6" but I'm not too sure of what I will get if I order the duck poo mixed with sand I suspect.

I have just put around some bags of chicken poo and this seems to be Ok as it is mixed with something, probably chicken feed and comes from the bottom of the pens.

The guy who put me onto the place that sells the Malay grass has beautiful lawn like in your picture and he spent a long time getting the preperation correct.

I wanted to turn the compost over (duck poo or chicken poo) into the soil, but the grey soil is soooo hard to dig, seems like grey soil and grey clay to me, but everyone said it is good dirt.

Here is a pic of us with the Malay guy at his grass farm, he's the one who told me about the duck poo.

And here are also some pics of the good dirt (supposedly) we filled in the land with.

What do you think?

Should I just get the bags of chicken poo and mix with river sand and then broadcast and fill to the required level?

[Allgeier]

How did you go from 'din kee peet' to 'มูลเป็ดดิน"?

On the way to Roi Et there selling

มูลไก่

So i cut the ไก่ out und full in the เป็ด . And ดิน on the end. Google Translater helps me a lot of because i can better read than write.

มูล is more decensy than "kee". Or how to explaine? If i put "kee" in google translater i will get no answer. Here is "kee" = ขี

But i never have seen a sign with ขี.

[carlyai]

How did you go from 'din kee peet' to 'มูลเป็ดดิน"?

On the way to Roi Et there selling

มูลไก่

So i cut the ไก่ out und full in the เป็ด . And ดิน on the end. Google Translater helps me a lot of because i can better read than write.

มูล is more decensy than "kee". Or how to explaine? If i put "kee" in google translater i will get no answer. Here is "kee" = ขี

But i never have seen a sign with ขี.

Thanks.

Yes you are right, kee is slang word, but i forgot the decent word, I have forgotten many Thai words, and new ones keep popping up.,

Do you know how much they are selling the chicken poo on the way to Roiet as I bought some just outside Kuchinari for one hundred baht for three bags.

Thanks for the Thai. I did learn to read and write Thai a long time ago but am lazy at the moment, but should start reading again.

Thanks again.

[Allgeier]

I dont know for this chicken poo. But between At Samat and Roi Et there one big chicken Farm. But i hear there are selling for about under 30 Bath the bag. But this are two differant shops.

The chicken Farm and the shop with the chicken poo from Suphanburi (???)

A couple of weeks a go a 6 wheel truck past our village. 22 Bath for a 20 kg bag. Came from Lopburi. If you need a truck full maybe it's cheaoer to order from there, maybe.

[Pdaz]

You'll find that they refer to it as "kee gai" "Kee wua" and "kee paet"

Kee doesn't translate into quite the same rude meaning as "sh*t" does in English... I have bags of chicken sh*t with "kee gai" written on the outside.

I can read Thai and my speech isn't bad, I spend a fair bit if time buying gardening supplies with my Mrs and she never calls poop anything else but "kee".

[kickstart]

To us din kee Peet is very sandy soil and it is every where, we have a lots round ,farmers try and grow a crop of rice on it, if you what some buy it by the truck load a few bags will go no where.

Looking at that photo ,whether it is the that is the real colour ,of the soil or a photo colour, but that soil looks more like subsoil to me ,some kee peet on top will do some good .

I have worked on farms in the uk and some of the land was almost kee peet ,it was what was known as hungry land, took a lot of feeding , as drtreelove said organic matter has to be right .

I would also think about drainage, that hard base will not drain water ,and that tractor running over everything ,will compact the soil ,preventing drainage , a good layer kee peet and some organic matter on top will help with drainage ,again as drtreelove said prep has to right ,one night you will have a big thunderstorm ,in the morning water laying on top ,get that a few times grass will die out ,and natural grasses will take over .at a guess ,you would need a good foot of kee peet and organic matter on top of that subsoil ,that would be a few truck loads of both .

[carlyai]

You'll find that they refer to it as "kee gai" "Kee wua" and "kee paet"

Kee doesn't translate into quite the same rude meaning as "sh*t" does in English... I have bags of chicken sh*t with "kee gai" written on the outside.

I can read Thai and my speech isn't bad, I spend a fair bit if time buying gardening supplies with my Mrs and she never calls poop anything else but "kee".

Yeah me too. As well as kee gai and kee wua there is kee farang, so 'kee' seems to be the word they use for sh*t, but you're right, it doesn't seem to have the exact translated meaning as 'sh*t' does in English.

Where as Falang, Boolah, etc, the names for whilte people do have a bad sound about them that 'kee' doesn't have.

I think a reply by 'kickstart' that Din Kee Peet is very sandy soil is probably the correct answer and different from 'kee peet'.

Thanks for the reply.

[carlyai]

To us din kee Peet is very sandy soil and it is every where, we have a lots round ,farmers try and grow a crop of rice on it, if you what some buy it by the truck load a few bags will go no where.

Looking at that photo ,whether it is the that is the real colour ,of the soil or a photo colour, but that soil looks more like subsoil to me ,some kee peet on top will do some good .

I have worked on farms in the uk and some of the land was almost kee peet ,it was what was known as hungry land, took a lot of feeding , as drtreelove said organic matter has to be right .

I would also think about drainage, that hard base will not drain water ,and that tractor running over everything ,will compact the soil ,preventing drainage , a good layer kee peet and some organic matter on top will help with drainage ,again as drtreelove said prep has to right ,one night you will have a big thunderstorm ,in the morning water laying on top ,get that a few times grass will die out ,and natural grasses will take over .at a guess ,you would need a good foot of kee peet and organic matter on top of that subsoil ,that would be a few truck loads of both .

Thanks Kickstart, I think this is the answer I'm looking for and that 'din kee peet' is different from 'kee gai' and kee peet'. That's why everyone says it's everywhere and you can get truck loads everywhere, where as the 'kee' is only sold in bags around here.

The soil is that colour, and according to the farmers it came from the top of a rice paddy and is good dirt. I doubt it, even though my brother in law is a great hard working farmer and he says it's good dirt. Well, we did put it in as good dirt some time ago and the tractor tilled it after it was laid.

I've only got about 6 inches or more to play with (that's the dirt i'm talking about) so I should order the 'din kee peet', the sandy soil and mix it with 'kee kai' and spread it around?

Or maybe put down a layer of 'kee gai' and put the 'din kee peet' over the top? Then let it lay until just before the start of the next wet season and put down the Malay turf?

Also, now the winds have started again in Isaan where I live, so will probably blow all my 'din kee peet' away. SH*T!!! That's the Falang one.

[kickstart]

Hi calyai

My problem is I am not that clued up on Malay grass.my grass is for cattle feed ,going on what drtreelove said and the rainy season is all but done ,as you said the cool northerly winds have arrived ,and will dry everything out ,I would apply the din kee peet now and the organic matter ,depending on what you can get hold of ,cow manure will not be availably until about February ,cattle yards are still a foot deep in wet crap ,and will not dry out before January ,when dairy farmers start and sell they manure .

Kee gie,chicken manure ,is ok high in urea ,would need some time ,to rot down ,Allgeier wrote about chicken manure from Lopburi ,they is place near me here in Lopburi ,they tip fresh chicken manure then a team comes and bags it up ,load it up ,and away it goes ,that would need rotting down ,could put that on now ,by the time the rains come ,whenever that will be ,plant the grass.

Or leave it to January when the winds have died down a bit, and put on some cow manure not as strong as Kee gie ,and the din kee peet ,should rot down by the time the rains come .

Get the soil and manure laid down ,if you can find a small rotavator ,a walk behind ,that would be good ,lot less compaction than a tractor running over everything , mix it all in ,thing about din kee pet ,all that sand , it will soon mix in, not difficult ,unlike heavy clay soil that would take a lot of working down.

[carlyai]

Hi calyai

My problem is I am not that clued up on Malay grass.my grass is for cattle feed ,going on what drtreelove said and the rainy season is all but done ,as you said the cool northerly winds have arrived ,and will dry everything out ,I would apply the din kee peet now and the organic matter ,depending on what you can get hold of ,cow manure will not be availably until about February ,cattle yards are still a foot deep in wet crap ,and will not dry out before January ,when dairy farmers start and sell they manure .

Kee gie,chicken manure ,is ok high in urea ,would need some time ,to rot down ,Allgeier wrote about chicken manure from Lopburi ,they is place near me here in Lopburi ,they tip fresh chicken manure then a team comes and bags it up ,load it up ,and away it goes ,that would need rotting down ,could put that on now ,by the time the rains come ,whenever that will be ,plant the grass.

Or leave it to January when the winds have died down a bit, and put on some cow manure not as strong as Kee gie ,and the din kee peet ,should rot down by the time the rains come .

Get the soil and manure laid down ,if you can find a small rotavator ,a walk behind ,that would be good ,lot less compaction than a tractor running over everything , mix it all in ,thing about din kee pet ,all that sand , it will soon mix in, not difficult ,unlike heavy clay soil that would take a lot of working down.

I think that's a good plan. Get the din kee peet and the kee gai in now and mixed up.

Because of the wind, and my experiences with it last year (gets really gale force here), I think I'll have to fence off the yard with that green shade cloth or something like it and some 6 foot star pickets. Else we will all be covered in 'kee' or one type of another.

I haven't seen 'star pickets' available in the shops.

You know if they are avalilable?

[kickstart]

www.ppfence.com

Try this for star pickets, with thanks to old man harry ,for me rearing cattle ,it is the best thing since sliced bread (,almost) .

[carlyai]

www.ppfence.com

Try this for star pickets, with thanks to old man harry ,for me rearing cattle ,it is the best thing since sliced bread (,almost) .

Thanks again kickstart.

Are you saying that rearing cattle is the best thing since sliced bread?

Are you in Isaan, and if so can I come and have a look one day?

Thanks again

[cooked]

You have heavy soil. Instead of running around to obtain exotic manures I should have worked in builders' sand at the rate of 1M3 per 30 M2. This will improve the drainage and enable the roots to actually grow deep enough so as not to dry out so quickly and allow the roots to absorb nutrients more easily. I was a turf expert, and I was constantly fighting to get the soil right before sowing / planting. You can add fertiliser later on when you are sure it won't burn the roots.

[kickstart]

You have heavy soil. Instead of running around to obtain exotic manures I should have worked in builders' sand at the rate of 1M3 per 30 M2. This will improve the drainage and enable the roots to actually grow deep enough so as not to dry out so quickly and allow the roots to absorb nutrients more easily. I was a turf expert, and I was constantly fighting to get the soil right before sowing / planting. You can add fertiliser later on when you are sure it won't burn the roots.

Good point ,I still think that soil is subsoil ,never seen grey top soil before ,and sand will help ,which is what basically din kee peet is ,so the op is halfway there,

I worked for a landscaping firm for a while, we use to do a bit of turfing, laying the turf was the easy bit ,getting the ground underneath was the difficult bit ,a lot of raking to get it level , the 2 photographs of the lawns ,they looked very level ,I wonder how they did that ,never seen a landscaping rake ,a rake 2foot wide ,with a blade a the top ,to level out humps ,here in the los ,I would say here ,they would get a 360 backhoe in ,tooth it all over ,and level it out at the same time.

@carlyai,

I live in Lopburi ,130 km north of bkk ,if you do come this way ,do call in .

[carlyai]

You have heavy soil. Instead of running around to obtain exotic manures I should have worked in builders' sand at the rate of 1M3 per 30 M2. This will improve the drainage and enable the roots to actually grow deep enough so as not to dry out so quickly and allow the roots to absorb nutrients more easily. I was a turf expert, and I was constantly fighting to get the soil right before sowing / planting. You can add fertiliser later on when you are sure it won't burn the roots.

You have heavy soil. Instead of running around to obtain exotic manures I should have worked in builders' sand at the rate of 1M3 per 30 M2. This will improve the drainage and enable the roots to actually grow deep enough so as not to dry out so quickly and allow the roots to absorb nutrients more easily. I was a turf expert, and I was constantly fighting to get the soil right before sowing / planting. You can add fertiliser later on when you are sure it won't burn the roots.

Good point ,I still think that soil is subsoil ,never seen grey top soil before ,and sand will help ,which is what basically din kee peet is ,so the op is halfway there,

I worked for a landscaping firm for a while, we use to do a bit of turfing, laying the turf was the easy bit ,getting the ground underneath was the difficult bit ,a lot of raking to get it level , the 2 photographs of the lawns ,they looked very level ,I wonder how they did that ,never seen a landscaping rake ,a rake 2foot wide ,with a blade a the top ,to level out humps ,here in the los ,I would say here ,they would get a 360 backhoe in ,tooth it all over ,and level it out at the same time.

@carlyai,

I live in Lopburi ,130 km north of bkk ,if you do come this way ,do call in .

See the Thai guy in the picture of us at the Malay grass farm.

He's the one that said I must have it nice and level, no bumps, and the top of din kee peet.

Exactly what you guys are saying, thanks.

I was put onto him from someone who has already put in a landscaped turf lawn bought from these people.

His looks fantastic from the pics, but he did a great deal of preperation.

He advised me to get the good ten inches of top soil from the top of a rice paddy, and this is what I was told I was getting. When it arrived it looked to me like grey/blue clayey stuff, but who am I to know when all the farmers are saying it's good dirt.

The dirt I got looks like it has had all the nuitrements washed out of it.

I bought some bags of kee kai at B 100 for 3 , bit expensive I feel, but broadcast them around away from the plants, have left it for a couple of weeks and moved it around the banana and mango trees and they seem to like it and it is not burning them. The kee kai looks like it comes straight from the bottom of the pens.

Now all I.ve got to do is see where I can buy a truck load or two of kee kai.

I live outside Kuchinari, so will probably have to go to RoiEt way.

Maybe I'll put a notice on the Isaan forum and see where I can get some.

Thanks again for your very helpful comments.

I'll attach one more pic of the Malay grass. They quoted me B 15 dry season, and B 20 wet season a talang met for the turf, that's providing the team to lay it as well and some extra sand. The truck will probably cost more I would think, but sounds like a good deal.

PS When I told the brother in law (great farmer he is) I was going to lay down some din kee peet, he said it will use a lot of water, just what Isaan needs is some falang using all the underground aquafa water. I was thinking 5 to 10 min early morning and the same late afternoon. Think this is OK?

Edited November 3, 2015 by carlyai

[cooked]

Water: for a newly established lawn, around 10mm / M2 is ideal (lay a large flat container on the lawn and see how much water is in there after your morning 5 - 10 minutes). I think you'll find that it isn't 10mm.

Bur every lawn is different, you will learn by experience whether the grass is thirsty. In Europe I used to get my head down near the ground and look over the lawn, I could see if it was thirsty. If you have heavy soil, too much water will be damaging, the grass will turn yellow and you will think it is thirsty!

For myself, I have a green bit where the dogs do their daily thing and let the cows on to it when it seems too long.