Diabetes 2 - Irreversible ?

[mommysboy]

That's what I thought. And that words like 'cure' and 'remission' were misapprops. from diseases like cancer. So I was surprised to learn otherwise from a programme on BBC Radio 4 - The Report - Salad and Surgery, in which surgeons in the Bariatric field are claiming cure in up to 66% of surgeries. Astonishingly I am not misquoting hear. The claim is being made that it is not just about reducing sugar levels because of reduced intake, but that some types of surgery actually rebalance. I'm very surprised. I can only think that the obese people in the study only had some form of pseudo diabetes due to their incredible sugar intake. Anyway, good listening if anybody is interested.

[oncearugge]

You should do some research and find evidence for "cure" within reputable , published, peer reviewed, scientific journals.

Type II diabetes is never "cured" but it can be controlled by weight loss and sensible eating.

[AyG]

You should do some research and find evidence for "cure" within reputable , published, peer reviewed, scientific journals.

Type II diabetes is never "cured" but it can be controlled by weight loss and sensible eating.

Clearly you haven't been reading reputable, published, peer reviewed scientific journals on the matter.

Diabetes can be reversed, at least in the early years, by an extremely restricted diet.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

[mommysboy]

You should do some research and find evidence for "cure" within reputable , published, peer reviewed, scientific journals.

Type II diabetes is never "cured" but it can be controlled by weight loss and sensible eating.

Don't make this my issue. BBC is a highly respected broadcaster and these were doctors in the field.

Bariatrics is already a well established field concerning itself with obesity. The effect on diabetes was an unexpected side effect.

[NickJ]

Grazing on hi-sugar content food and drink all day and night spikes insulin levels over and over......eventualy your own insulin becomes ineffective removing sugar from the blood......My brother was diagnosed type 2 almost 20years ago and has never taken meds....diet and exercise.

[Sheryl]

There is absolutely no doubt that many people (not all, but many) can completely control Type II diabetes through exercise and diet alone.

There is also no doubt that poor diet and lack of exercise contribute to the development of it in the first place and that many (again, not all, but many) people will be able to avoid developing it if they keep to a reasonable weight, are reasonably active and avoid processed carbs. There are however exceptions, usually people with a really strong genetic predisposition.

Neither of these things is in any way new information.

The problem comes when the term "reversal" is used. There is no evidence whatsoever that it possible to "reverse" Type II diabetes such that the person can then get fat and indulge in a diet high in processed carbs without ever demonsytarting problems with glucose metabolism. Which is what "reversal" would imply.

Bariatric surgery almost always leads to substantial weight loss. Substantial weight loss in obese people will almost always improve their glucose metabolism.

That is not a "reversal" of Type II diabetes, it is removal of one main things that triggers high blood sugar in people suffering from it. Unless there was a study wherein people who had bariatric surgery then regained all of their prior excess weight and went back to their prior dietary habits and were followed for many years and still never again showed signs of Type II DM then there is nothing to suggest it "reverses" the disease. And I am pretty sure no such study has ever been done nor could it be, for reasons both ethical and practical.

[mommysboy]

There is absolutely no doubt that many people (not all, but many) can completely control Type II diabetes through exercise and diet alone.

There is also no doubt that poor diet and lack of exercise contribute to the development of it in the first place and that many (again, not all, but many) people will be able to avoid developing it if they keep to a reasonable weight, are reasonably active and avoid processed carbs. There are however exceptions, usually people with a really strong genetic predisposition.

Neither of these things is in any way new information.

The problem comes when the term "reversal" is used. There is no evidence whatsoever that it possible to "reverse" Type II diabetes such that the person can then get fat and indulge in a diet high in processed carbs without ever demonsytarting problems with glucose metabolism. Which is what "reversal" would imply.

Bariatric surgery almost always leads to substantial weight loss. Substantial weight loss in obese people will almost always improve their glucose metabolism.

That is not a "reversal" of Type II diabetes, it is removal of one main things that triggers high blood sugar in people suffering from it. Unless there was a study wherein people who had bariatric surgery then regained all of their prior excess weight and went back to their prior dietary habits and were followed for many years and still never again showed signs of Type II DM then there is nothing to suggest it "reverses" the disease. And I am pretty sure no such study has ever been done nor could it be, for reasons both ethical and practical.

Ok, that is definitive for me and was pretty much my understanding until yesterday.

[Cobragold]

Hi,

How much is the cost of such a surgery in Bangkok or Chiang Mai. I am a diabetic for officially 21 years but based on symptoms may have had it for over 30 years, I exercise quite a bit by brisk walking daily . My weight from 94 kilo to now 68 kilos. However by blood sugar levels are still high and I am unable to bring it down. Last hb1ic was 6.9. I am on max Meds now and cannot be taking much more.

[AyG]

Hi,

How much is the cost of such a surgery in Bangkok or Chiang Mai. I am a diabetic for officially 21 years but based on symptoms may have had it for over 30 years, I exercise quite a bit by brisk walking daily . My weight from 94 kilo to now 68 kilos. However by blood sugar levels are still high and I am unable to bring it down. Last hb1ic was 6.9. I am on max Meds now and cannot be taking much more.

I strongly suspect, based upon your weight, that you're not going to be a candidate for bariatric surgery. It would only be appropriate in your case if you had a BMI over35. See https://www.nice.org.uk/news/article/offer-weight-loss-surgery-to-diabetics for the UK guidelines.

[Sheryl]

Yes, no reputable doctor is going to perform bariatric surgery on you at that weight.

And, it would not improve control of your diabetes. That effect is seen only in people who are obese.

An Hbac1 of 6.9, while above normal, is a pretty good level for someone with longstanding Type II diabetes. The general consensus is to aim for below 7%. The lower the better of course, but not everyone can get much lower than that. Older people and people who have had diabetes for some time are especially unlikely to be able to get much below 7.

What is your diet like?

[billd766]

Sadly my wife's Mum died of diabetes mellitus 3 weeks ago just short of her 70th birthday.

She had diabetes for many years, ate Thai food (she was Thai), and took no exercise.

She was in hospital 3 times this year already and I truly didn't think she would have survived in January, but she did.

I am 71 and, touch wood, I don't have diabetes though I go for a check up every 3 months.