simple1 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Why are there so many members on this site who would rather insult other members than debate the topic. Not matter what the history of any country with past invasions, the facts show most wars are religious and supported by the zealots. Now lets get down to real discussion and leave the pettiness in the schoolyard. OK. Following is some background reading for you to digest .You may come to the conclusion the conflict does not mirror what’s going on in the M.E, that members constantly align their comparisons (Arab Islamic extremism, though as conflict continues possibly so) more like Thai specific related issues. Look forward to your thoughts. http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand http://www.academia.edu/1474667/Islam_and_Muslims_in_Thailand Edited November 7, 2015 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorn Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Why are there so many members on this site who would rather insult other members than debate the topic. Not matter what the history of any country with past invasions, the facts show most wars are religious and supported by the zealots. Now lets get down to real discussion and leave the pettiness in the schoolyard. OK. Following is some background reading for you to digest .You may come to the conclusion the conflict does not mirror what’s going on in the M.E, that members constantly align their comparisons (Arab Islamic extremism, though as conflict continues possibly so) more like Thai specific related issues. Look forward to your thoughts. http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand http://www.defence.gov.au/adc/docs/Publications2012/SheddenPapers12_120306_ConflictinThailand_Nurakkate.pdf http://www.academia.edu/1474667/Islam_and_Muslims_in_Thailand The problem is the bigots will agree that yes the history is different. But they will say as soon as the area gets any form of self-determination they will bring in Sharia law and want to expand their territory because that's what all Muslims are like and what the Quran tells them to do etc. etc. Edited November 7, 2015 by Lorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorn Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sorry to see his free speech curtailed. His idea to fight fire with fire, speaking the same language as the Islamists, would have had a more positive effect on the peace process than appeasement. Bending over for these religious creeps does not work, it just emboldens them(if in doubt look to the N European models). No, they must be smacked, and smacked hard, every time they perpetrate violent acts in the name of their deity. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan, in that when the mosques that bred and fomented the hate and rage no longer exist - the brainwashing will cease also. Win win. Do you honestly believe that? Do you really not see the appalling consequences of such insane actions? Burning down a place of religious worship is a violent act and one that will only lead to bloody violence on a greater scale. The conflict in the South is not a religious one, it's main focus is upon independence/autonomy based upon historical sense of injustice [rightly or wrongly]. Yes there is a religious element to it in that the opposing sides are of different faiths, but faith is not at the root of the violence. I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims, but the sheer stupidity of burning down Mosques will only fuel their cause and result in even worse atrocities. And yes, that is possible.. Another liberal telling us it is not about religion. You can look for all the excuses you like and keep telling yourself people should just be nice to each other. It won't make any difference. They keep using small reasons as an excuse to murder people but it always has Islam at the root. And don't bring up the old 'but some victims are muslim' because they are invariably killed because they betrayed some principle of the murderers belief. We now live in a world where they shout demands and murder people almost at will with little repercussion because everyone else is scared that any verbal retaliation will result in more murders. Even here, if anyone dare question it, liberals like you are quick to jump on them. The recent fiasco when those young men got killed by the Army is another good example of what is wrong. What an uproar in the local councils and the media that brought about - but where is the similar uproar for the hundreds of innocent, decent ,schoolteachers and others when they get brutally murdered in cold blood ?. Bottom line is that if these people were Buddhist, it would not have this terrorist problem. A muslim will never go against another muslim to help a Buddhist. They are conditioned from birth that everyone else is an infidel and Allah would not forgive them. These kind things are ALWAYS about religion. I wonder how many thousands (or millions) in this world are yet to die before enough is enough and people dare to face up to it. The traditions and culture of my home country are now ruined because of this stone age, brainwashing religion. I hope the same does not happen in Thailand. Which culture would that be? The Celtic culture being ruined by the Romano-British. Or the Romano British being ruined by the Saxons? Maybe the Vikings ruining Saxon culture? Or did you prefer the spread of French culture in the middle ages? What about the spread of American "culture" through Holywood etc. How do you figure Muslims have changed English culture more than any of those periods considering they make up only about 5% of the population? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cape Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My experience for what it's worth is that these Muslim folk are formatted from birth and five times a day thereafter. They exploit liberal democracies and welfare states. Their deep belief means non Muslims are "in the way": no negotiation or compromise is realistically possible, any agreements are purely tactical and temporary. My experience, direct and borrowed, teaches me trust is not possible with these guys, even if my principles would hope for peaceful inclusion. Diversity really is strength, but you can't take fifth columns at face value. They are unfortunately just sleepers waiting for the wake-up call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 My experience for what it's worth is that these Muslim folk are formatted from birth and five times a day thereafter. They exploit liberal democracies and welfare states. Their deep belief means non Muslims are "in the way": no negotiation or compromise is realistically possible, any agreements are purely tactical and temporary. My experience, direct and borrowed, teaches me trust is not possible with these guys, even if my principles would hope for peaceful inclusion. Diversity really is strength, but you can't take fifth columns at face value. They are unfortunately just sleepers waiting for the wake-up call. Just as a reminder the topic is about Thailand. Not so sure I would define Thailand as a Liberal Democracy, nor a Welfare State. Have you had direct experience with Thai Muslims that lead you to your conclusions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 "I told myself: 'I am surrounded by unknown things.' I imagined man without ears, suspecting the existence of sound as we suspect so many hidden mysteries, man noting acoustic phenomena whose nature and provenance he cannot determine. And I grew afraid of everything around me afraid of the air, afraid of the night. From the moment we can know almost nothing, and from the moment that everything is limitless, what remains? Does emptiness actually not exist? What does exist in this apparent emptiness?" Guy de Maupassant, Complete Works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 @Cape "Paranoia is transmissible from mind to mind, but it does not go by the route of reason. It can therefore change its rationalization while remaining essentially the same." William Nicholls, Christian Antisemitism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Yep. Burn the lot down. Myanmar style Buddhism. Didn't do any society any good though. Fighting hatred with hatred never ever results in anything positive. No, just stand by and let the oppressors walk all over us like in todays UK. Also what about WW2? Hitler hated us, tried to invade us, the British hated Hitler for trying to invade us. The positives are that Britain and other European countries are not all speaking German today. yet the German economy is the powerhouse of Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Almost every conflict in the World is associated with Muslims at some point. Average people are getting sick of it. It used to be that a normal persons thought train could seperate out the negatives. Now the average people from around the World are getting sick to death off all the Muslim based conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Yep. Burn the lot down. Myanmar style Buddhism. Didn't do any society any good though. Fighting hatred with hatred never ever results in anything positive. No, just stand by and let the oppressors walk all over us like in todays UK. Also what about WW2? Hitler hated us, tried to invade us, the British hated Hitler for trying to invade us. The positives are that Britain and other European countries are not all speaking German today. yet the German economy is the powerhouse of Europe That's true, but if they had won the war, the politicians might have got greedy the way British politicians did, and might not have the economy they have today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobb Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I think this is kinda like the government order about speaking against the government. What ever happened to freedom of speech in Thailand Monk or a ordinary person. The Monk lost his fellow Monk and should be made and hate Muslims. I was a Marine and many Marines died at the hand of these hating any one who is not muslim. I hate muslims to i wonder if i will be stifled also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cape Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 @simple It's interesting you ask if I have any experience of Thailand Muslims. Actually: no; MENA, not Asia except for Indonesia. For Indonesia, the Java culture I met, which is more Hindu from way back, you are right, makes these Muslim folk easternly accepting. Religion is but a part of culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cape Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 @Bluespunk. Maybe reason depends on knowledge but not convinced that paranoia relies on its absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cape Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 @Possum1931. It is believed that mass war is caused by the need to take out oversupply. The Germans won the war because they could build an efficient modern supply platform from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) When people finally wake up to the fact that Islam is not religion in the western sense but a political system then they will be able to formulate a plan to deal with it. Many Muslims are quite happy to live in a democracy. If that democracy turned into an Islamic dictatorship with sharia law....they would be happy too. Islam is a way of life, not something that in the west makes you feel guilty about, like forgetting to go to church on a Sunday. It permeates every aspect of life from birth, to marriage, to death. People don't understand why Muslims don't blend into another countries culture, and the simple answer is they don't need to....they already have a culture and brought it with them. Seems the Monk might just realise this too and can see the consequences of it spreading from the south as it inevitably will, over time. Its what Islam does. It might take 50 or 100 or 1000 years (as it has in Europe to date) but it will happen unless action is taken. Edited November 7, 2015 by Mudcrab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Did pandora open a new box recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 When people finally wake up to the fact that Islam is not religion in the western sense but a political system then they will be able to formulate a plan to deal with it. Many Muslims are quite happy to live in a democracy. If that democracy turned into an Islamic dictatorship with sharia law....they would be happy too. Islam is a way of life, not something that in the west makes you feel guilty about, like forgetting to go to church on a Sunday. It permeates every aspect of life from birth, to marriage, to death. People don't understand why Muslims don't blend into another countries culture, and the simple answer is they don't need to....they already have a culture and brought it with them. Seems the Monk might just realise this too and can see the consequences of it spreading from the south as it inevitably will, over time. Its what Islam does. It might take 50 or 100 or 1000 years (as it has in Europe to date) but it will happen unless action is taken. This is total rubbish which only comes from your hatred of Muslims. First, just like other religions, there are varying degrees of observance. Plenty of crackpot Christians in the US, Buddists in Myanmar & Sri Lanka, Hindus Sikhs in India. Most Muslims - & I have lived for 10 years in a 100% Muslim country - are peaceful law-abiding citizens. Yes some get upset (rightly so) when western countries waltz into Muslim countries, steal their oil & destroy any semblance of law & order. As Bluespunk & others have said, the southern insurgency is not about religion but about an ethnic group deprived of any say in their education, laws, & rule. There have been numerous atrocities against local people, the worst being Tak Bai & Kru Se, without any effort to bring those killers to justice. Muslims are killed as well as Buddists by the various insurgent groups who regard any government official of any religion as a target - unfortunately that includes teachers too. Burning Mosques as revenge is similar to Israeli burning family homes of Palestinians - collective punishment, which is not a part of the legal system in any civilised country. BTW the only ones using the Sharia accusation are the Muslim-haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 When people finally wake up to the fact that Islam is not religion in the western sense but a political system then they will be able to formulate a plan to deal with it. Many Muslims are quite happy to live in a democracy. If that democracy turned into an Islamic dictatorship with sharia law....they would be happy too. Islam is a way of life, not something that in the west makes you feel guilty about, like forgetting to go to church on a Sunday. It permeates every aspect of life from birth, to marriage, to death. People don't understand why Muslims don't blend into another countries culture, and the simple answer is they don't need to....they already have a culture and brought it with them. Seems the Monk might just realise this too and can see the consequences of it spreading from the south as it inevitably will, over time. Its what Islam does. It might take 50 or 100 or 1000 years (as it has in Europe to date) but it will happen unless action is taken. This is total rubbish which only comes from your hatred of Muslims. First, just like other religions, there are varying degrees of observance. Plenty of crackpot Christians in the US, Buddists in Myanmar & Sri Lanka, Hindus Sikhs in India. Most Muslims - & I have lived for 10 years in a 100% Muslim country - are peaceful law-abiding citizens. Yes some get upset (rightly so) when western countries waltz into Muslim countries, steal their oil & destroy any semblance of law & order. As Bluespunk & others have said, the southern insurgency is not about religion but about an ethnic group deprived of any say in their education, laws, & rule. There have been numerous atrocities against local people, the worst being Tak Bai & Kru Se, without any effort to bring those killers to justice. Muslims are killed as well as Buddists by the various insurgent groups who regard any government official of any religion as a target - unfortunately that includes teachers too. Burning Mosques as revenge is similar to Israeli burning family homes of Palestinians - collective punishment, which is not a part of the legal system in any civilised country. BTW the only ones using the Sharia accusation are the Muslim-haters. Went right over your head didn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 When people finally wake up to the fact that Islam is not religion in the western sense but a political system then they will be able to formulate a plan to deal with it. Many Muslims are quite happy to live in a democracy. If that democracy turned into an Islamic dictatorship with sharia law....they would be happy too. Islam is a way of life, not something that in the west makes you feel guilty about, like forgetting to go to church on a Sunday. It permeates every aspect of life from birth, to marriage, to death. People don't understand why Muslims don't blend into another countries culture, and the simple answer is they don't need to....they already have a culture and brought it with them. Seems the Monk might just realise this too and can see the consequences of it spreading from the south as it inevitably will, over time. Its what Islam does. It might take 50 or 100 or 1000 years (as it has in Europe to date) but it will happen unless action is taken. This is total rubbish which only comes from your hatred of Muslims. First, just like other religions, there are varying degrees of observance. Plenty of crackpot Christians in the US, Buddists in Myanmar & Sri Lanka, Hindus Sikhs in India. Most Muslims - & I have lived for 10 years in a 100% Muslim country - are peaceful law-abiding citizens. Yes some get upset (rightly so) when western countries waltz into Muslim countries, steal their oil & destroy any semblance of law & order. As Bluespunk & others have said, the southern insurgency is not about religion but about an ethnic group deprived of any say in their education, laws, & rule. There have been numerous atrocities against local people, the worst being Tak Bai & Kru Se, without any effort to bring those killers to justice. Muslims are killed as well as Buddists by the various insurgent groups who regard any government official of any religion as a target - unfortunately that includes teachers too. Burning Mosques as revenge is similar to Israeli burning family homes of Palestinians - collective punishment, which is not a part of the legal system in any civilised country. BTW the only ones using the Sharia accusation are the Muslim-haters. Went right over your head didn't it? What did? Your hatred expressed many times in many threads? No it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Why are there so many members on this site who would rather insult other members than debate the topic. Not matter what the history of any country with past invasions, the facts show most wars are religious and supported by the zealots. Now lets get down to real discussion and leave the pettiness in the schoolyard. WW1 wasnt WW2 wasnt a lot is over territory but they can always fall back on religion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Almost every conflict in the World is associated with Muslims at some point. Average people are getting sick of it. It used to be that a normal persons thought train could seperate out the negatives. Now the average people from around the World are getting sick to death off all the Muslim based conflicts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts You might want to look a bit harder at your facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puwa Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I believe the issue here is whether a monk, sworn to nonviolence, compassion, and abstention from worldly affairs, and ensconced at one of the country's most important temples, violated his precepts. And if he did, what to do about it. His statements in and themselves, which are what most replies in this thread address, are unremarkable in terms of content. They are simply the half-educated rantings of a psychologically unstable fellow, resounding in a global echo chamber that dazzles feeble minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Why do monks need a facebook page? To spread hate it would seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kannot Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I believe the issue here is whether a monk, sworn to nonviolence, compassion, and abstention from worldly affairs, and ensconced at one of the country's most important temples, violated his precepts. And if he did, what to do about it. His statements in and themselves, which are what most replies in this thread address, are unremarkable in terms of content. They are simply the half-educated rantings of a psychologically unstable fellow, resounding in a global echo chamber that dazzles feeble minds. or as many will know a large percentage of rural Thais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaowong1 Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sorry to see his free speech curtailed. His idea to fight fire with fire, speaking the same language as the Islamists, would have had a more positive effect on the peace process than appeasement. Bending over for these religious creeps does not work, it just emboldens them(if in doubt look to the N European models). No, they must be smacked, and smacked hard, every time they perpetrate violent acts in the name of their deity. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan, in that when the mosques that bred and fomented the hate and rage no longer exist - the brainwashing will cease also. Win win. Do you honestly believe that? Do you really not see the appalling consequences of such insane actions? Burning down a place of religious worship is a violent act and one that will only lead to bloody violence on a greater scale. The conflict in the South is not a religious one, it's main focus is upon independence/autonomy based upon historical sense of injustice [rightly or wrongly]. Yes there is a religious element to it in that the opposing sides are of different faiths, but faith is not at the root of the violence. I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims, but the sheer stupidity of burning down Mosques will only fuel their cause and result in even worse atrocities. And yes, that is possible.. But are they a "place of worship" or are they a place to forment religious hate against other religions. The latter seems to be the direction these mosques are taking. "I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims." Does this contempt include what's happening across the middle East and Europe? When these Imams and Mullahs stand up at a podium and scream " Death to all infidel's, Sharia law is the only law." Do you think their not talking about you also? Do you think their going to give you a pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sorry to see his free speech curtailed. His idea to fight fire with fire, speaking the same language as the Islamists, would have had a more positive effect on the peace process than appeasement. Bending over for these religious creeps does not work, it just emboldens them(if in doubt look to the N European models). No, they must be smacked, and smacked hard, every time they perpetrate violent acts in the name of their deity. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan, in that when the mosques that bred and fomented the hate and rage no longer exist - the brainwashing will cease also. Win win. Do you honestly believe that? Do you really not see the appalling consequences of such insane actions? Burning down a place of religious worship is a violent act and one that will only lead to bloody violence on a greater scale. The conflict in the South is not a religious one, it's main focus is upon independence/autonomy based upon historical sense of injustice [rightly or wrongly]. Yes there is a religious element to it in that the opposing sides are of different faiths, but faith is not at the root of the violence. I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims, but the sheer stupidity of burning down Mosques will only fuel their cause and result in even worse atrocities. And yes, that is possible.. But are they a "place of worship" or are they a place to forment religious hate against other religions. The latter seems to be the direction these mosques are taking. "I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims." Does this contempt include what's happening across the middle East and Europe? When these Imams and Mullahs stand up at a podium and scream " Death to all infidel's, Sharia law is the only law." Do you think their not talking about you also? Do you think their going to give you a pass? Mosques are a place of worship, full stop. I despise bigots of all shapes and forms. I don't give a <deleted> what form their hatred is or who is doing the hating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Yep. Burn the lot down. Myanmar style Buddhism. Didn't do any society any good though. Fighting hatred with hatred never ever results in anything positive. So you advocate turning the other cheek as though there is virtue in getting hit with the other fist? Better to adopt the philosophy to not get even, but get ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrowsdawdle Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sorry to see his free speech curtailed. His idea to fight fire with fire, speaking the same language as the Islamists, would have had a more positive effect on the peace process than appeasement. Bending over for these religious creeps does not work, it just emboldens them(if in doubt look to the N European models). No, they must be smacked, and smacked hard, every time they perpetrate violent acts in the name of their deity. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan, in that when the mosques that bred and fomented the hate and rage no longer exist - the brainwashing will cease also. Win win. Do you honestly believe that? Do you really not see the appalling consequences of such insane actions? Burning down a place of religious worship is a violent act and one that will only lead to bloody violence on a greater scale. The conflict in the South is not a religious one, it's main focus is upon independence/autonomy based upon historical sense of injustice [rightly or wrongly]. Yes there is a religious element to it in that the opposing sides are of different faiths, but faith is not at the root of the violence. I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims, but the sheer stupidity of burning down Mosques will only fuel their cause and result in even worse atrocities. And yes, that is possible.. But are they a "place of worship" or are they a place to forment religious hate against other religions. The latter seems to be the direction these mosques are taking. "I have nothing but contempt for those who resort to violence to achieve their aims." Does this contempt include what's happening across the middle East and Europe? When these Imams and Mullahs stand up at a podium and scream " Death to all infidel's, Sharia law is the only law." Do you think their not talking about you also? Do you think their going to give you a pass? Mosques are a place of worship, full stop. I despise bigots of all shapes and forms. I don't give a <deleted> what form their hatred is or who is doing the hating. It is your right to wallow in delusion. Political correctness has you by the short-hairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishoak Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Hes not a Monk hes just another nutter in a rag. There is nothing respect worthy about the ****. NOTHING Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Sorry to see his free speech curtailed. His idea to fight fire with fire, speaking the same language as the Islamists, would have had a more positive effect on the peace process than appeasement. Bending over for these religious creeps does not work, it just emboldens them(if in doubt look to the N European models). No, they must be smacked, and smacked hard, every time they perpetrate violent acts in the name of their deity. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan, in that when the mosques that bred and fomented the hate and rage no longer exist - the brainwashing will cease also. Win win. Non violent solutions such as burning down mosques is a particularly savvy plan wow, wondering what a "violent solution" would be in your opinion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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