Conflict in deep South must not be seen as a religious war

[jesimps]

Go ask the people in the South if it a religious war. Or is it just coincidence that those doing the killing are all muslims ?.

Why do we not get any articles like this criticising the Muslims and their leaders ?. I don't think I ever saw a single one.

It's the same with Israel : we only ever get reports of what their army did - but a quick search with google shows the many ongoing terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians which simply try to murder as many as possible. Women, children - anyone.

Why are Muslims allowed to murder other faiths repeatedly with almost no comment at all - yet this monk who didn't even advocate killing gets such attention ?.

Why do I have to search the internet to find out what ISIS are doing - then be shocked at the barbarity of it ?. Why doesn't it even make the news ?.

Why does a terrorist bomb in a market in Iraq which kills dozens barley make the BBC news website front page, but a soldier who finished off a wounded extremist combatant after a firefight is all over the media and he gets life in prison ?.,

Just for the record, I don't agree with his idea. I'm just sick of the one-sided reporting.

I seldom agree with your rants on the Thai political situation mate, but on this post I'm in tune with every point you make. See, you can be right wing and still dislike juntas.

[manarak]

The Muslims in the areas of the South where this conflict is taking place have always been the majority, both prior to and after the occupation of their independent state by the Thai state.

What a joke, your "who was first" game.

Before the arrival of Islam, the area was part of the Hindu-Buddhist Kingdom of Langkasuka and then Srivijaya.

[jesimps]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

[Krataiboy]

One thing is for sure: whether or not the conflict in the south is a religious war at present, it is far more likely to become one if Thailand adopts Buddhism as the official national religion.

[bazza40]

If it's got webbed feet and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Saying a Muslim separatist movement is not engaged in religious war is being in denial.

"Good men will do good, and evil men will do evil. For good men to do evil -that takes religion"

[Jingthing]

It's interesting.

This Southern Thailand "war" has been going on for so many decades but I doubt very many people internationally are even aware of it.

Some conflicts get TOO MUCH international attention.

Some TOO LITTLE.

[Bluespunk]

The Muslims in the areas of the South where this conflict is taking place have always been the majority, both prior to and after the occupation of their independent state by the Thai state.

What a joke, your "who was first" game.

Before the arrival of Islam, the area was part of the Hindu-Buddhist Kingdom of Langkasuka and then Srivijaya.

How far back?

[Bluespunk]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

I'm not pro anything, I just despise bigotry and prejudice and wholesale condemnation of any faith.

[ggt]

What is happening in S. Thailand is a microcosm of the fights going on around the world...pitting the Muslim Islamic world conquerors against the natives of a country...

The war is for world dominance...Thailand is just getting a piece of the action...

These people do not see others as human beings...just infidels lined up to be slaughtered...

If the world does not get its head out of the sand...and see these religious fanatics for what they are...it will one day be too late to unite and defeat this very real threat to human peace and freedom...

[DrTuner]

What is happening in S. Thailand is a microcosm of the fights going on around the world...pitting the Muslim Islamic world conquerors against the natives of a country...

The war is for world dominance...Thailand is just getting a piece of the action...

These people do not see others as human beings...just infidels lined up to be slaughtered...

If the world does not get its head out of the sand...and see these religious fanatics for what they are...it will one day be too late to unite and defeat this very real threat to human peace and freedom...

Makes me wonder if people ever even got an inkling of an idea what was going on with the crusades back in the day. Probably not, as information was hard to get in the dark ages. This time though there's no excuse, it's all blatantly displayed in every possible media every day.

[notmyself]

"Conflict in deep South must not be seen as a religious war"

Then you have already lost...

Yep. If you don't see something (anything) for what it is then you will not be able to interact with it in any meaningful way.

[Krataiboy]

The ongoing carnage in the South started as a separatist war by insurgents who wanted an independent state, but in recent times it has increasingly been hijacked by jihadists who see moderate Muslims, as well as Buddhists and followers of other faiths, as the enemy.

More than ten thousand people have died in the last decade or so, and there seems little prospect that the present Thai government's efforts to find a peaceful resolution to this historic conflict will prove successful.

Religious extremism is responsible for fueling not just the latest wave of violence in the south of Thailand and Myanmar. It is also at the root of growing ethnic and cultural divisions across much of the Middle East and parts of Africa.

Muslims are by no means the only fundamentalist warriors taking up arms and committing atrocities in the name of their favoured deity - any more than when the Crusades and Inquisition were at their height and Christian soldiers marched onward to conquer and convert by force. But the jihadists, widely distributed yet sharing the same chilling objective, constitute by far the greatest threat to world peace and stability.

Many commentators believe that death and destruction inflicted by the US and Allied "interventions" in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya helped transform many moderate followers of Islam - in the West as well as elsewhere - into militants and acted as a recruiting agency for ISIL and other jihadist cells like those operating in southern Thailand.

Blameworthy or not it is beginning to look as if the phony War on Terror launched by George Bush Jr for US geopolitical interests will be viewed through the lens of history as a prequel to a much larger terrorist movement now spreading from the Middle East, Africa and Asia to threaten the wider world.

When ISIL first emerged as a nascent challenge to the established order, the US and its allies hesitated, apparently in the mistaken belief that the new jihadist group might topple Assad and assist some of their other nefarious hegemonic objectives in the region By the time the true nature of the fundamentalist group was recognised, it was too late. ISIL had grown too big for a quick kill and the halfhearted and sporadic air war of attrition which followed has proved largely ineffective

At its core, ISIL is now a more formidable force to be reckoned with than Al Qaeda or the Taliban ever were and its declared objective of establishing a new Caliphate is starting to sound less like arrogance and scarily more like an achievable possibility. Why else should the rampaging jihadists continue to turn contemptuously deaf ears to the growing international chorus of international condemnation and are impervious to pleas for peace - a condition they maintain will reign only when the Koran and Sharia law are accepted as the global norm?

The downing of the Russian jetliner, now believed to be the work of ISIL or a support group, is simply the latest chilling indication that militant Islam is on the march and looking dramatically to expand the scale and scope of the ruthless terrorist tactics which have become its hallmark.

That normally peaceable Buddhist monks are now talking of burning mosques in Thailand and taking up arms elsewhere to defend their faith and national culture against what they perceive are dangerous alien religious fanatics is a clear signal to jittery governments and dithering Western nations that the time for further appeasement of ISIL and its malevolent ilk is over.

A rapidly-expanding global terrorist campaign, run by ruthless religious extremists who believe their crimes against humanity will be eternally recompensed in the afterlife, cries out for a global solution backed by the UN and the military might of all its member nations.

When it comes to fundamentalism, there surely is no right more fundamental than that of being able to worship a deity of one's choice - or none at all - without fear of earthly retribution.

[willyumiii]

My understanding is that much of it is religious,

especially the attacks on schools.

In all Thai public schools, Buddhism is a big part of the curriculum, Monks aofen visit and teach religion at the schools and Buddhist prayers are part of the morning assembly every day.

I am a Buddhist/ Humanist and believe, that no religion should be forced on anyone in a public school.

There are many religious schools , if that if what you want for child..

If I were the Muslim parent of a student in a Thai school, I would probably be very upset too.

Don't most Buddhist believe that each person will find "the path" when they are ready to find it?

If so, thee is no need to push and sell the religion like the Christians do.

I think making religion optional and not mandatory in schools would alleviate much of the problem.

[simple1]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

Considering there are tens of thousands of TV members who are regular viewers of the content of TV, just what is the percentage regularly posting anti-Islam / Muslim content; less than .01%?

Having come from an environment where my primary carer was a racist and a bigot, personally I am in the same camp as Bluespunk & others of the same demeanor. Way too many on this forum fail to distinguish between the Islamists and those Muslims getting on with their day to day lives without religious violence and hatred, as are the vast majority of Thai Muslims.

Edited November 8, 2015 by simple1

[John1012]

Beam me up, Scotty.

Yes, leave us.

[John1012]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

I'm not pro anything, I just despise bigotry and prejudice and wholesale condemnation of any faith.

Then you must despise the cult of Islam, bigotry,prejudice and wholesale condemnation of any OTHER faith.

[John1012]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

Considering there are tens of thousands of TV members who are regular viewers of the content of TV, just what is the percentage regularly posting anti-Islam / Muslim content; less than .01%?

Having come from an environment where my primary carer was a racist and a bigot, personally I am in the same camp as Bluespunk & others of the same demeanor. Way too many on this forum fail to distinguish between the Islamists and those Muslims getting on with their day to day lives without religious violence and hatred, as are the vast majority of Thai Muslims.

Why then do not the majority of Muslims rise up and purge their 'religion' of these Islamists? When they do ,then , perhaps, we who look upon Islam as a threat to all we hold dear (freedom of speech, freedom to follow, or not, any religion that suits our personal beliefs, equality of sexes, frredom tio axt as we wish (under our national laws), our national identitity), will accept Islam as religion. Instead we , who are not PC liberals or multiculti morons, must look upon Islam as a creeping cancer that will eventually totally dominate and destroy all that we believe in, and must fear it and fight it however we can.

[jgriff]

Well written Krataiboy!!!!

[Bluespunk]

Beam me up, Scotty.

Yes, leave us.

For the likes of you it will be an absolute pleasure.

[Bluespunk]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

I'm not pro anything, I just despise bigotry and prejudice and wholesale condemnation of any faith.

Then you must despise the cult of Islam, bigotry,prejudice and wholesale condemnation of any OTHER faith.

Nope. Bigots are the same, no matter what or who their bigotry is aimed at.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Bluespunk

[simple1]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

Considering there are tens of thousands of TV members who are regular viewers of the content of TV, just what is the percentage regularly posting anti-Islam / Muslim content; less than .01%?

Having come from an environment where my primary carer was a racist and a bigot, personally I am in the same camp as Bluespunk & others of the same demeanor. Way too many on this forum fail to distinguish between the Islamists and those Muslims getting on with their day to day lives without religious violence and hatred, as are the vast majority of Thai Muslims.

Why then do not the majority of Muslims rise up and purge their 'religion' of these Islamists? When they do ,then , perhaps, we who look upon Islam as a threat to all we hold dear (freedom of speech, freedom to follow, or not, any religion that suits our personal beliefs, equality of sexes, frredom tio axt as we wish (under our national laws), our national identitity), will accept Islam as religion. Instead we , who are not PC liberals or multiculti morons, must look upon Islam as a creeping cancer that will eventually totally dominate and destroy all that we believe in, and must fear it and fight it however we can.

Again & again people post content that has no meaningful relevancy to the current conflict in Southern Thailand. However, just as a heads up Thai Muslims have been murdered for opposing the 'insurgents', some of whom were serving members of the Thai Armed Forces, as have some local Imams calling for peace. Although they were rather controversial figures (as many leadership people are in Thailand), I have to assume you do not know Thai Muslims have held senior roles such as CIC Thai Armed Forces and National Police Chief.

Perhaps the content at the URL below will assist in your understanding of the place in Thai society, at the highest level, of the Thai Muslim community.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/riyadh/en/organize/29025-Muslim-in-Thailand.html

[ToS2014]

If you went into Utah, and took away all the land, subjugated all the inhabitants as second class citizens, and doled out parcels of that grabbed land to the corrupt powers in the new government, you'd have a Mormon conflict.

If you went into Jamaica and took away all the land...., you'd have a Rastafarian conflict. (That's a little tongue in cheek)

If you went into Rome and took away all the land... you'd have a Catholic conflict.

If you went in to Palestine and took away all the land (in the 1940's)... you'd have a Muslim conflict.

If you went in to Israel and took away all the land (today, anyway)... you'd have a Jewish conflict.

But I wouldn't call any of them a religious conflict.

Excellent examples of how contemporary issues facing the world began. Don't forget Xinjiang and the Uighur (Uyghur) issue facing China. Course, with an authoritative state contemporary scholars tend to agree that its much 'easier' to control the religious/ethnic uprising(s). Appears Muslims all around the world are calling for their own state, much as in south Philippines and seemingly every where else. Of course placating to their every desire WILL NOT stop the problem. History has proven this with the religious/ethnic troubles and the subsequent division of India into two states...India and now the safe, secure, and tourist mecca of Pakistan.

[digibum]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

Considering there are tens of thousands of TV members who are regular viewers of the content of TV, just what is the percentage regularly posting anti-Islam / Muslim content; less than .01%?

Having come from an environment where my primary carer was a racist and a bigot, personally I am in the same camp as Bluespunk & others of the same demeanor. Way too many on this forum fail to distinguish between the Islamists and those Muslims getting on with their day to day lives without religious violence and hatred, as are the vast majority of Thai Muslims.

Why then do not the majority of Muslims rise up and purge their 'religion' of these Islamists? When they do ,then , perhaps, we who look upon Islam as a threat to all we hold dear (freedom of speech, freedom to follow, or not, any religion that suits our personal beliefs, equality of sexes, frredom tio axt as we wish (under our national laws), our national identitity), will accept Islam as religion. Instead we , who are not PC liberals or multiculti morons, must look upon Islam as a creeping cancer that will eventually totally dominate and destroy all that we believe in, and must fear it and fight it however we can.

Bad argument else wise, perhaps the rest of the world can blame Christians for not rising up and purging Evangelicals and Born-Agains, no?

I do think more Muslims should speak up and they should do more to separate themselves from Islamists. But not doing so does not make one complicit anymore than your failure to speak out on something or to devote your life to some cause means that you condone such thoughts/views/activities simply because you belong to a similar group.

I have no dog in the religious fight. Born Catholic but eventually became more of an Atheist with Buddhist leanings (on the philosophical side, not the religious dogma).

Bottom line (to me) is that a big part of the insurgency in the south is the same thing as the red shirt movement elsewhere. Keep in mind, most of the red shirt movement is comprised of darker-skinned Thais who are seen as second-class citizens. A big part of the message of their protests were the amart (the privileged) vs the regular people (they took it a step further and called themselves slaves).

While the issues in the south are even more complex, you basically have a predominately Muslim population, who share more in common with Malaysians than they do with Thais, being told what to teach in school, that the "unofficial" religion in Buddhism, and aren't even considered "real" Thais.

I don't think it's any wonder that they aspire to break free or at least have enough autonomy from Bangkok to establish their own governance.

And the denial of that opened up the doors for more extremist Muslims to turn it into a religious war. Not that that justifies anything but it does explain it better than just writing off everyone south of Phuket as a radical extremist.

Because let's not pretend that Thai governments and the military and police sent down to the south to keep them in check are handing out lollipops and flowers. The harder they crack down and the less respect moderate Muslims are shown, the easier and easier it is for them to side with the extremists.

Much in the same way that the more and more that the elite alienate the poor in Thailand the more likely they are to embrace whatever red shirted criminal is more like them than like the elites back in Bangkok.

BTW, that doesn't mean I like the red shirts either. I'm simply trying to make the point that both conflicts stem from a similar resentment of too much authority being controlled by too few people who have too little concern about anybody but themselves.

When governments remove political solutions they breed alternative solutions.

[manarak]

The Muslims in the areas of the South where this conflict is taking place have always been the majority, both prior to and after the occupation of their independent state by the Thai state.

What a joke, your "who was first" game.

Before the arrival of Islam, the area was part of the Hindu-Buddhist Kingdom of Langkasuka and then Srivijaya.

How far back?

not that far back, maybe approx. 500 years ago for the latter

[Bluespunk]

The Muslims in the areas of the South where this conflict is taking place have always been the majority, both prior to and after the occupation of their independent state by the Thai state.

What a joke, your "who was first" game.

Before the arrival of Islam, the area was part of the Hindu-Buddhist Kingdom of Langkasuka and then Srivijaya.

How far back?

not that far back, maybe approx. 500 years ago for the latter

So basically half a millennia as an independent muslim kingdom or with Islam as the majority faith.....my argument stands then.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Thongkorn]

The Problem is not religious, Its a group of People who do not want to be Thai or Malaysian. they want to rule themself, both Governments Thai and the Malaysians put there two pence worth in , It politically Backed By both Countrys stirring up the trouble,

[Thai at Heart]

It's a mix of religious and ethnic.

To deny there isn't a big religious aspect to it is pure folly.

But understandable because it is very unpleasant.

Next ...

The desperate attempt to deny a religious aspect to this is probably geopolitical. Thailand doesn't want to be known for having a Muslim war inside it's door.

They've already had one bomb in Bangkok they desperately tried to claim wasn't Muslim terrorism. Deny all they want, but the south problem will get much worse before it gets any better.

[manarak]

What a joke, your "who was first" game.

Before the arrival of Islam, the area was part of the Hindu-Buddhist Kingdom of Langkasuka and then Srivijaya.

How far back?

not that far back, maybe approx. 500 years ago for the latter

So basically half a millennia as an independent muslim kingdom or with Islam as the majority faith.....my argument stands then.

your "always" doesn't stand, and about Islam being "majority faith" during that time, it remains to be proven.

and don't forget these territories had been regained by Siam and then Thailand several times within these 500 years, rule over the area changed and then changed again.

and if the process of muslims flowing in and seizing land from weakened kingdoms to form sultanates is okay, then the process of the Thai state to secularize the area and repopulate it with Buddhists is certainly okay too.

the argument of saying "the muslims were there first" doesn't hold.

Edited November 9, 2015 by manarak

[cobbler]

Hurry up Scotty, the hate and prejudice down here may be infectious.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion and you don't have to let on why you're so pro Muslim. It would however, be interesting to know, when about 98% of the people on here seem to be less than fond of them, that you always seem to stand their corner. Do you ever wonder why you're so out of step?

Just curious.

Considering there are tens of thousands of TV members who are regular viewers of the content of TV, just what is the percentage regularly posting anti-Islam / Muslim content; less than .01%?

Having come from an environment where my primary carer was a racist and a bigot, personally I am in the same camp as Bluespunk & others of the same demeanor. Way too many on this forum fail to distinguish between the Islamists and those Muslims getting on with their day to day lives without religious violence and hatred, as are the vast majority of Thai Muslims.

Why then do not the majority of Muslims rise up and purge their 'religion' of these Islamists? When they do ,then , perhaps, we who look upon Islam as a threat to all we hold dear (freedom of speech, freedom to follow, or not, any religion that suits our personal beliefs, equality of sexes, frredom tio axt as we wish (under our national laws), our national identitity), will accept Islam as religion. Instead we , who are not PC liberals or multiculti morons, must look upon Islam as a creeping cancer that will eventually totally dominate and destroy all that we believe in, and must fear it and fight it however we can.

well worded. Couldnt agree more. Call me what you want . Bigot ,redneck,ect , i dont care. I dont see good muslims fighting and complaining against the bad muslims. Why? They sit back and let the extremists do the dirty work. Then they just as a whole can take over. Muslims boast in sydney they already have 25% of sydney. Its the same or worse in other countries. It is what it is and lieing to yourself wont make it different. Dont say you weren't warned

[Bluespunk]

@manarak

500 years is long enough for the point I was making to stand.