Mortgages For Thailand

[Belfastboy]

Hi Guys...

i know this a a minefield, but does anyone know of a UK based bank/building society offering mortgages for Thailand?

i've done a search on here, but as yet to find anything...

anyhelp much appreciated..

BB

[eljeque]

If you are in Pattaya, the Sophon Pattaya station or the PattayaMail station offers a British company that does offer mortgages BASED ON your property back in the UK.

If you are not in Pattaya, I will note the name and contact details and post them.

Do you mind my asking how much and how many years. If you do not mind paying investment returns as interest rates, I know people who are tired of getting low returns on bonds and cds int he USA who would be interested in lending to you over a few years up to five or even more.

[trajan]

Hi Guys...

i know this a a minefield, but does anyone know of a UK based bank/building society offering mortgages for Thailand?

i've done a search on here, but as yet to find anything...

anyhelp much appreciated..

BB

I got a condo mortgage from HSBC Bangkok, is that a "UK based bank"?

[Belfastboy]

HSBC is certainly in the UK...i might give them a bell...thanks trojan...

im not in pattaya, im in the UK at the minute...would interested in up to 25 years mortgage and not quite sure how much yet...we are currently looking for a villa in phuket to buy...

would love to hear of anyone getting a mortgage in the UK for thailand..

[binnsy]

i bank with the HSBC in england and asked about a account in thailand to pay into but was told no

[trajan]

HSBC is certainly in the UK...i might give them a bell...thanks trojan...

im not in pattaya, im in the UK at the minute...would interested in up to 25 years mortgage and not quite sure how much yet...we are currently looking for a villa in phuket to buy...

would love to hear of anyone getting a mortgage in the UK for thailand..

the HSBC Bank in Bangkok only offered 10 year mortgages for condos and only up to 70% of appraised value (which was fine for me)..... if I set up a company on my own and bought a townhouse or detached house instead of a condo, they would increase the loan to 80% or 90% of appraised value...(but I dont think they would lengthen the term much longer)... Thai nationals get longer term mortgages...but that was OK for me cause I didn't want to pay so much interest per month...

the officers were super-customer oriented....came to my office, brought all documents, etc. took care of everything...

also, if your mortgage is in excess of Baht 5 Million? it automatically makes you an HSBC Premier customer, and they assign a private pretty lady banker to you who takes care of all banking transactions for you...by phone, email etc. (you never need to explain any repetitive procedures, cause she already knows/anticipates what you prefer and your history/background) and if you ever need to actually visit the bank, you are ushered into a private zone on the 2nd floor and drink coffee, watch TV and relax in a living room, while they do everything... nice touch....better than those darn local banks where you line-up in interminable lines for the most mundane tasks... (you also get half-price on safe deposit boxes in the basement strong area and a free Mastercard etc.)...recommended

I've never heard of anyone getting mortgages straight from abroad though....

but I did hear somewhere that Bangkok Bank, Singapore Branch is offering mortgages to foreigners for Thai purchases, but their terms are pretty stringent (from what I've heard)... I'd much rather just deal with HSBC in Bangkok.....also you might wanna knock on Citibank Bangkok's or Standard Chartered Thai's door, they might offer good deals too (with service packages)....

Edited October 4, 2006 by trajan

[RAZZELL]

HSBC is certainly in the UK...i might give them a bell...thanks trojan...

im not in pattaya, im in the UK at the minute...would interested in up to 25 years mortgage and not quite sure how much yet...we are currently looking for a villa in phuket to buy...

would love to hear of anyone getting a mortgage in the UK for thailand..

the HSBC Bank in Bangkok only offered 10 year mortgages for condos and only up to 70% of appraised value (which was fine for me)..... if I set up a company on my own and bought a townhouse or detached house instead of a condo, they would increase the loan to 80% or 90% of appraised value...(but I dont think they would lengthen the term much longer)... Thai nationals get longer term mortgages...but that was OK for me cause I didn't want to pay so much interest per month...

the officers were super-customer oriented....came to my office, brought all documents, etc. took care of everything...

also, if your mortgage is in excess of Baht 5 Million? it automatically makes you an HSBC Premier customer, and they assign a private pretty lady banker to you who takes care of all banking transactions for you...by phone, email etc. (you never need to explain any repetitive procedures, cause she already knows/anticipates what you prefer and your history/background) and if you ever need to actually visit the bank, you are ushered into a private zone on the 2nd floor and drink coffee, watch TV and relax in a living room, while they do everything... nice touch....better than those darn local banks where you line-up in interminable lines for the most mundane tasks... (you also get half-price on safe deposit boxes in the basement strong area and a free Mastercard etc.)...recommended

I've never heard of anyone getting mortgages straight from abroad though....

but I did hear somewhere that Bangkok Bank, Singapore Branch is offering mortgages to foreigners for Thai purchases, but their terms are pretty stringent (from what I've heard)... I'd much rather just deal with HSBC in Bangkok.....also you might wanna knock on Citibank Bangkok's or Standard Chartered Thai's door, they might offer good deals too (with service packages)....

Obviously you live and work in Bkk?

For the OP...if you live abroad, as far as i'm aware, only way is Bangkok bank in Singapore...

This page sort of explains it...(no connection with this company whatsoever)

http://www.kalaraco.com/kalara-mortgage.html

Edited October 4, 2006 by RAZZELL

[teej]

Hey trajan, what is the interest rate offered on your mortgage?

[Belfastboy]

so if my thai wife was to apply in bangkok through HSBC and put the property in her sole name, it should be straightforward?

or do they have conditions on being based in thailand..eg..my wife has lived in the UK now for 5 years and 4 years in Australia before that.

[GuestHouse]

Borrowing money in the UK to spend on property in Thailand.

The mind boggles.

[opothai]

i bank with the HSBC in england and asked about a account in thailand to pay into but was told no

i've got a hsbc account in thailand and i bank with the hsbc in the uk.

you need to approach your bank manager in the uk and get him to write a letter of reccomendation to the bank in thailand and give that letter to the bank then you can open an account.

[Dragonman]

Mortgages are not available in UK, only personal loans, normally secured on UK property. Charges must be made on the Thai based property and the foreign bank would not be able to repossess. HSBC is an option as in Bangkok. Mortgages from Thai banks are normally for people living full time in the property in Thailand, with an income either in Thailand or overseas.

[Belfastboy]

much appreciated guys..looks like a mortgage from a UK source is out of the question..at least i have ruled that out..the reason i was seeking a UK based bank is an obvious one..better the devil u know..!

we plan to buy a holiday home in phuket..as now we have a 3 month year old boy we are planning to set up a nice place to take him somewhere we can call our second home...

is there anybody who has gone through the singapore bangkok bank route of getting a mortgage for expats,or thai citizens that have lived abroad for a while?

Edited October 6, 2006 by Belfastboy

[astral]

Borrowing money in the UK to spend on property in Thailand.

The mind boggles.

Why not, of you feel the risk is justified?

I took a second mortgage on a property in the UK to purchase my Thai home.

All mortgages are now cleared, 8 years later.

[thaigene2]

so if my thai wife was to apply in bangkok through HSBC and put the property in her sole name, it should be straightforward?

or do they have conditions on being based in thailand..eg..my wife has lived in the UK now for 5 years and 4 years in Australia before that.

Think it depends on your wife. If she has both a work record and a credit record you might have a chance at it. If she has only a Pratom 6 education highly unlikely. Usually they want the borrower to have an employment and income/savings record in Thailand for a loan. For a house my undertanding is it would need to be in her name. If she has a family here with a land, her father or moth could act as a guarantor. Farangs can no longer act as Guarantor accordng to what my bank has told me. Bank of Thailand is cracking down on foreigners here (with or without Thai wives). There are a lot of not-so-nice things happening right now for foreigners. Be advised. Might be better to come out suss things out a wait awhile.

[trajan]

Hey trajan, what is the interest rate offered on your mortgage?

first 3 years, fixed rate = 1.25% over bank's cost of funds =5.75%

after the first 3years = 1% per annum below Home Mortage Loan Rate = about 6.75%

[binnsy]

i bank with the HSBC in england and asked about a account in thailand to pay into but was told no

i've got a hsbc account in thailand and i bank with the hsbc in the uk.

you need to approach your bank manager in the uk and get him to write a letter of reccomendation to the bank in thailand and give that letter to the bank then you can open an account.

When i call into my branch i will ask the question.

thanks

[Casanundra]

I found out the other day that if you are a foreigner who is married and who has a work permit, a proper visa and can show some paperwork to support your salary, contract of employment and so forth, then YES you can actually get a mortgage here. There are some rules you need to satisfy but overall the news was great as it meant that ‘you’ as a foreigner could actually purchase a property at a lower risk than sinking all of your own money into the property upfront... or so the marketing blurb will lead you to believe.

So based on this news, the wife went to get some information on my behalf. She made it clear that she was married to a foreigner; she also made it clear that the mortgage was for me and that it would be in my name or at least joint names. So she came back with the entire blurb in Thai about how to apply for the loan and what the rates and payment terms would be and a list of documents we needed to produce to complete the application.

Great! I had everything they were asking for on file and the numbers the wife had written down and had been quoted, both on Kassikorn official bank paper and SCB headed paper stated that I could get a mortgage for 80%, that I could pay over 20 years and the rate would be MLR-2% which made it a rate of 5.25% ‘fixed’, which came out at about 17,200 baht per month with a clause that after 5 years I could pay off the balance with a lump sum if I wanted. Super! Great! Smashing!

It seemed ideal... but I guess I should have known better!

So off we popped to the local Kassikorn bank manager and we noticed as we entered the bank that a huge sign was on display proudly stating that the bank was offering discounts for first time mortgages. We entered and as I and the wife walked in and sat down in front of the loans manager, we were met with an impassive not so friendly face. ‘Uh oh!’ I thought, but we started to discuss the application anyway. We produced the figures that his bank had produced for us and submitted all of the paperwork required along with the application. He seemed happier, and I was happy, the missus was excited and we thought, ‘Great! We are on our way to getting a house in Thailand with Thai money with an outlay of only 20% from me – No risk, no problem’.

Then it happened...

As the manager was checking the numbers on our application as well as checking and was reading my offshore bank account statement (something I had to produce for proof of funds etc... ) he leaned down and from a drawer produced a whole new set of figures and quotes and with a slight of the hand, unclipped the ones that we had provided earlier, and deftly replaced them with this new version that he just dug out. Naturally I wanted to check what he had just done with my original documents and after a tussle of him saying they weren’t important and could I just ‘sign here; I managed to finally prise the numbers from out of him. What did I find do you think? Well, woe and behold and much to my surprise, the figures where now stating a rate of MLR +2% making the interest rate 9.25% and the maximum repayment period had now gone from 20 years to just only 8 years. The monthly total had also leaped to 38,000 baht and what’s more, the minimum deposit had changed from 20% to 50%. I was aghast at the effrontery of the man. Needless to say I pulled him up on it and his reply was simple: “You are Farang”.

I went red in the face, I growled and the wife leaned left ways away from me and between gritted teeth I hissed and demanded to know what the hel_l he meant by that.

“You are Farang” he repeated.

He then went on to say that the ‘original’ numbers where for Thai’s only and that as a Farang I had to pay double... ‘Bank of Thailand’ Rules he stated. I explained in the most passive of voices that I work here, that I get paid a Thai (not a foreign) salary, that I pay Thai taxes, that I am married to a Thai, that in all sense and purposes that I may as well be a bloody Thai here... and well it did not make one jot of difference. So I asked him a simple question. Did the money cost more to lend to a foreigner than it did to a Thai. ‘Err! No!’ was the answer but ‘you are a Farang and these are the bank rates and rules for a foreigner’. So I asked if my wife could apply instead and he refused to entertain the idea because now he had got it into his head that I would be involved at some point and therefore refused to let her as a Thai have the Thai rates. The wife tried to point out that as a Thai, he was denying another Thai the ability to own land in ‘Thai’ land but he still wasn’t to be swayed. He then asked:

‘Would you like to continue with the mortgage?’

At this point I was too speechless to answer and although I should have expected this sort of thing to happen it still took me by surprise that they could be so bare faced and ignorant and arrogant and well... in the end I just got up and walked out and left the wife sitting there to explain to him in her polite face saving Thai way that ‘no I bloody well wouldn’t be continuing with the mortgage’ and there ended that little adventure with the Bank. The bloody stupid thing is, these lemons have no idea how people like me are just continuing to say ‘stuff it’ and to keeping all of our money offshore and what just happened re-enforced things for me on so many levels about how silly life can be here. I phoned up the SCB bank afterwards and after pointing out certain aspects to them, like ‘I was a foreigner’, they too for some odd reason, decided to change their quote too and reaffirmed that the rate from them was also going to MLR +2% with a 50% minimum contribution from me.

Anyway that was my experience from a few weeks ago and just wanted to tell you so you could at least know the current thinking. I did consider HSBC but paying for the use of their services and paying a monthly stipend for the privaledge of using an ATM machine to get my money sort of put me off the idea of opening an account with HSBC in Bangkok.

[thaigene2]

Hi Casanundra

Sorry to hear about that. It's very familiar to me though. As in my other posts (the one with the few extra whiskies) I also explained how the Bank of Thailand has recently clamped down. No mortgages to foreigners - no loans to foreigners - period, full-stop. If you got one a year or two ago..then lucky you.

I went through this with SCB ..at first they said yes (a farang friendly branch where lots of farang-mortgages were issued in past). Then after going through the application - much further along than you - an evaluation of the property, money transfered here from abraod, and with an accepted offer on a property, etc, the bank came back and said 'no'. SCB head office said BOT rules now preclude all farang Thai baht loans. My wife is also Thai, but a housewife looking after our kids. Could I pay 50% down, then put the loan in her name instead (it was a condo), or even buy a house in her name instead - with me as guarantor? "No, a farang cannot guarantee a Thai Baht loan".

So actually, and believe it or not, you were lucky. You have PR right? The banks are lending to those with PR - but under the crappy double-standards as you just discovered, I guess. For the rest of us, we're stuffed. So my family and I will probably leave Thailand when the work permit expires.

[Dragonman]

Hi Casanundra

Sorry to hear about that. It's very familiar to me though. As in my other posts (the one with the few extra whiskies) I also explained how the Bank of Thailand has recently clamped down. No mortgages to foreigners - no loans to foreigners - period, full-stop. If you got one a year or two ago..then lucky you.

I went through this with SCB ..at first they said yes (a farang friendly branch where lots of farang-mortgages were issued in past). Then after going through the application - much further along than you - an evaluation of the property, money transfered here from abraod, and with an accepted offer on a property, etc, the bank came back and said 'no'. SCB head office said BOT rules now preclude all farang Thai baht loans. My wife is also Thai, but a housewife looking after our kids. Could I pay 50% down, then put the loan in her name instead (it was a condo), or even buy a house in her name instead - with me as guarantor? "No, a farang cannot guarantee a Thai Baht loan".

So actually, and believe it or not, you were lucky. You have PR right? The banks are lending to those with PR - but under the crappy double-standards as you just discovered, I guess. For the rest of us, we're stuffed. So my family and I will probably leave Thailand when the work permit expires.

Having now looked through every circular and memorandum issued to Financial Institutions by BoT in last 2 years I find nothing to suggest other than an opening of loan oppurtunities, not a closure!

I presume both you and Casanundra were not shown the relevant circular, which I do not think exists. Nothing surprises me however with Thai Banks, as the vast majority of managers I have spoken to, are at the least incompetent, and mainly think all farangs are total idiots!

[1Rai.com]

Hi Casanundra

Sorry to hear about that. It's very familiar to me though. As in my other posts (the one with the few extra whiskies) I also explained how the Bank of Thailand has recently clamped down. No mortgages to foreigners - no loans to foreigners - period, full-stop. If you got one a year or two ago..then lucky you.

I went through this with SCB ..at first they said yes (a farang friendly branch where lots of farang-mortgages were issued in past). Then after going through the application - much further along than you - an evaluation of the property, money transfered here from abraod, and with an accepted offer on a property, etc, the bank came back and said 'no'. SCB head office said BOT rules now preclude all farang Thai baht loans. My wife is also Thai, but a housewife looking after our kids. Could I pay 50% down, then put the loan in her name instead (it was a condo), or even buy a house in her name instead - with me as guarantor? "No, a farang cannot guarantee a Thai Baht loan".

So actually, and believe it or not, you were lucky. You have PR right? The banks are lending to those with PR - but under the crappy double-standards as you just discovered, I guess. For the rest of us, we're stuffed. So my family and I will probably leave Thailand when the work permit expires.

Having now looked through every circular and memorandum issued to Financial Institutions by BoT in last 2 years I find nothing to suggest other than an opening of loan oppurtunities, not a closure!

I presume both you and Casanundra were not shown the relevant circular, which I do not think exists. Nothing surprises me however with Thai Banks, as the vast majority of managers I have spoken to, are at the least incompetent, and mainly think all farangs are total idiots!

It is clear that, if all this is right, there is no winner. The homebuyer doesn't get their funds, the bank doesn't get their interest, the country loses out on income. We should have one set of rules... in theory. So, if you really want a mortgage here, you have two options:

1. Find a bank or mortgage company who understands the rules and can offer proper support - this will be hard to so the least.

2. Kick up enough of a fuss to get it done properly - this will also be hard to say the least, and, with Thai culture not tolerating loss-of-face, don't expect ANY help from the branch who you have proven to be incorrect.

If anyone has had any positive experiences with obtaining foreign mortgages in Thailand, please post for the good of everybody.

[RAZZELL]

I found out the other day that if you are a foreigner who is married and who has a work permit, a proper visa and can show some paperwork to support your salary, contract of employment and so forth, then YES you can actually get a mortgage here. There are some rules you need to satisfy but overall the news was great as it meant that ‘you’ as a foreigner could actually purchase a property at a lower risk than sinking all of your own money into the property upfront... or so the marketing blurb will lead you to believe.

So based on this news, the wife went to get some information on my behalf. She made it clear that she was married to a foreigner; she also made it clear that the mortgage was for me and that it would be in my name or at least joint names. So she came back with the entire blurb in Thai about how to apply for the loan and what the rates and payment terms would be and a list of documents we needed to produce to complete the application.

Great! I had everything they were asking for on file and the numbers the wife had written down and had been quoted, both on Kassikorn official bank paper and SCB headed paper stated that I could get a mortgage for 80%, that I could pay over 20 years and the rate would be MLR-2% which made it a rate of 5.25% ‘fixed’, which came out at about 17,200 baht per month with a clause that after 5 years I could pay off the balance with a lump sum if I wanted. Super! Great! Smashing!

It seemed ideal... but I guess I should have known better!

So off we popped to the local Kassikorn bank manager and we noticed as we entered the bank that a huge sign was on display proudly stating that the bank was offering discounts for first time mortgages. We entered and as I and the wife walked in and sat down in front of the loans manager, we were met with an impassive not so friendly face. ‘Uh oh!’ I thought, but we started to discuss the application anyway. We produced the figures that his bank had produced for us and submitted all of the paperwork required along with the application. He seemed happier, and I was happy, the missus was excited and we thought, ‘Great! We are on our way to getting a house in Thailand with Thai money with an outlay of only 20% from me – No risk, no problem’.

Then it happened...

As the manager was checking the numbers on our application as well as checking and was reading my offshore bank account statement (something I had to produce for proof of funds etc... ) he leaned down and from a drawer produced a whole new set of figures and quotes and with a slight of the hand, unclipped the ones that we had provided earlier, and deftly replaced them with this new version that he just dug out. Naturally I wanted to check what he had just done with my original documents and after a tussle of him saying they weren’t important and could I just ‘sign here; I managed to finally prise the numbers from out of him. What did I find do you think? Well, woe and behold and much to my surprise, the figures where now stating a rate of MLR +2% making the interest rate 9.25% and the maximum repayment period had now gone from 20 years to just only 8 years. The monthly total had also leaped to 38,000 baht and what’s more, the minimum deposit had changed from 20% to 50%. I was aghast at the effrontery of the man. Needless to say I pulled him up on it and his reply was simple: “You are Farang”.

I went red in the face, I growled and the wife leaned left ways away from me and between gritted teeth I hissed and demanded to know what the hel_l he meant by that.

“You are Farang” he repeated.

He then went on to say that the ‘original’ numbers where for Thai’s only and that as a Farang I had to pay double... ‘Bank of Thailand’ Rules he stated. I explained in the most passive of voices that I work here, that I get paid a Thai (not a foreign) salary, that I pay Thai taxes, that I am married to a Thai, that in all sense and purposes that I may as well be a bloody Thai here... and well it did not make one jot of difference. So I asked him a simple question. Did the money cost more to lend to a foreigner than it did to a Thai. ‘Err! No!’ was the answer but ‘you are a Farang and these are the bank rates and rules for a foreigner’. So I asked if my wife could apply instead and he refused to entertain the idea because now he had got it into his head that I would be involved at some point and therefore refused to let her as a Thai have the Thai rates. The wife tried to point out that as a Thai, he was denying another Thai the ability to own land in ‘Thai’ land but he still wasn’t to be swayed. He then asked:

‘Would you like to continue with the mortgage?’

At this point I was too speechless to answer and although I should have expected this sort of thing to happen it still took me by surprise that they could be so bare faced and ignorant and arrogant and well... in the end I just got up and walked out and left the wife sitting there to explain to him in her polite face saving Thai way that ‘no I bloody well wouldn’t be continuing with the mortgage’ and there ended that little adventure with the Bank. The bloody stupid thing is, these lemons have no idea how people like me are just continuing to say ‘stuff it’ and to keeping all of our money offshore and what just happened re-enforced things for me on so many levels about how silly life can be here. I phoned up the SCB bank afterwards and after pointing out certain aspects to them, like ‘I was a foreigner’, they too for some odd reason, decided to change their quote too and reaffirmed that the rate from them was also going to MLR +2% with a 50% minimum contribution from me.

Anyway that was my experience from a few weeks ago and just wanted to tell you so you could at least know the current thinking. I did consider HSBC but paying for the use of their services and paying a monthly stipend for the privaledge of using an ATM machine to get my money sort of put me off the idea of opening an account with HSBC in Bangkok.

I don't know of any other country in the world that behaves like this...

[eljeque]

BKK Bank Rates

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok+Bank/Pe...tes/Default.htm

Bkk Bank Fees

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok+Bank/Pe...+Apply/Fees.htm

[sinam]

Were all of these experiences post coup? I made a post a while back about expecting the old farts involved to take a more nationalistic approach for the short-term. This will filter down in tone and decision making even if the regulations and laws haven't changed. Give it some time and the tone will change and I think it already has. Thais are concerned with what foreigners think and I already heard one of the new member of the appointed assembly body that he wanted more open changes to benefit making it easier for foreign investment.

Si Nam

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi Casanundra

Sorry to hear about that. It's very familiar to me though. As in my other posts (the one with the few extra whiskies) I also explained how the Bank of Thailand has recently clamped down. No mortgages to foreigners - no loans to foreigners - period, full-stop. If you got one a year or two ago..then lucky you.

I went through this with SCB ..at first they said yes (a farang friendly branch where lots of farang-mortgages were issued in past). Then after going through the application - much further along than you - an evaluation of the property, money transfered here from abraod, and with an accepted offer on a property, etc, the bank came back and said 'no'. SCB head office said BOT rules now preclude all farang Thai baht loans. My wife is also Thai, but a housewife looking after our kids. Could I pay 50% down, then put the loan in her name instead (it was a condo), or even buy a house in her name instead - with me as guarantor? "No, a farang cannot guarantee a Thai Baht loan".

So actually, and believe it or not, you were lucky. You have PR right? The banks are lending to those with PR - but under the crappy double-standards as you just discovered, I guess. For the rest of us, we're stuffed. So my family and I will probably leave Thailand when the work permit expires.

Had a client who was going to close on a condo next week Was approved by the Siam Commercial bank before Oct 1st but now denied as Bank of Thailand has stated no more loans to foreigners.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[dsfbrit]

i bank with the HSBC in england and asked about a account in thailand to pay into but was told no

i've got a hsbc account in thailand and i bank with the hsbc in the uk.

you need to approach your bank manager in the uk and get him to write a letter of reccomendation to the bank in thailand and give that letter to the bank then you can open an account.

I have as well - in fact the HSBC branch in the UK did all the paperwork for me for the account in Thailand. I wasn't even an HSBC customer at the time and so opened both the UK account and did the paperwork for the Thailand account at the same time - in the UK.

Mind you this was 4 years ago now - so maybe times have changed?

By the way you do have to pay charges if your balance drops below a certain amount. I pay 300 baht a month as the balance is below 500,000 baht. I believe their 'premier' account is a much higher charge.

Edited October 15, 2006 by dsfbrit