Thai officials to slash number of foreign English teachers

[duanebigsby]

So you are advocating that Thai students should be taught a pronunciation and accent that only a very few people of Southern England and the aristocracy speak.

What about all the other English spoken around the world?

More Thais will be exposed to Aussies, Yanks, non RP Brits, Canucks and Europeans, etc, than posh English accents.

Except that, that pronunciation is quite clear and one of the most easily understood.

I was sent to elocution lesson when I was young so I wouldnt sound like a bogan/chav/hillbilly/somchai.

'one of the most easily understood"

Agreed, but so is the Canadian and northwest and midwest US accents.

A Thai student is for more likely to meet an Aussie than a Brit with an RP accent. They will need exposure to many accents before getting the language.

Yes they are, but there should be 1 standard and as its the "mother tongue" and the one that all other are derived from, that may as well be it.

And its difficult explaining to a Thai that when working with or meeting an Aussie they will probably hear the "F" word in every sentence, but it has multiple meanings and they may not be not swearing at you. 5555

Disagree that you could have a standard English to be taught.

There is no such thing as a "mother tongue" for the English language. It evolved from too many sources to claim RP as being the English all others are derived from.

I get tired of Brits telling me I should teach RP every bit as much as Americans telling me their English is the best.

Teach what you know. The kids need to hear the differences in the English.

[Heng]

I doubt they'll ever do this because it makes sense, but if you go with the Singapore model, you don't need hordes of native speaking

(or even 'sort of speaking' Filipinos) English teachers. You just change parts of the curriculum of all subjects (not just language) to be taught only in English, or only in Mandarin, and to heck with the accents as far as those subjects are concerned. That way, when they get to English (or whatever) class with their native speaking teacher, it's more of a refining process instead of the endless (and hopeless in many instances) game it is at present.

The goal should be to enable people to be aircraft engineers who can reference Boeing manuals, or to further their education elsewhere (or at least be able to draw on non-Thai reference materials), but perhaps have no chance of winning any kind of toastmasters competition.

The power brokers in Singapore are not so different than the ones here in the LOS. Horrible accents in many cases, you'd hardly call them fluent speakers in most cases, but they know enough to wheel and deal and power a successful economy... which IMO should be the goal.

[expatbrit]

duanebigsby

Best return to school and learn about the source and derivation of English.

Here is a "starter" for beginners !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#History

Which horrible accent/derivation of "english" do you teach? The Sumerset , Lancashire , Yorkshire. Scouse or Geordie version ?

"Standard " English should be taught to children and other non English speakers.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I have never met a Thai person speak near native English and that includes Thai people I knew living in Canada.

This program is one sick joke.

[expatbrit]

I have never met a Thai person speak near native English and that includes Thai people I knew living in Canada.

This program is one sick joke.

Maybe you move among the ranks of the uneducated !

Come and speak to my wife and a number of her friends if you wish to meet Thai people who speak better English than many "native" Canadians !

[Tolley]

I doubt it will make very much difference replacing native speaking English teachers most of whom have no quals and are in Thailand for a lark.

May as well give the jobs to Thais even if they are incompetent as least it provides more local jobs.

How could the results be any worse for the students given the current level of English competency?

They would be better placed to learn Chinese in any case and at least Chinese has more similarities with Thai than English so they should be able to learn it a bit easier.

You obviously know the cubed root of <deleted> all about how one becomes a Native English Speaking teacher in Thailand.

Please enlighten me on the rigorous standards of education required to be a native English speaking teacher in Thailand

[cobbler]

My thai wife and i taught english at a local temple for about 6 months . When i saw there " certified " english learning book from the government school. Im surprised they can speak engrish at all. Absolute joke. We had them all sounding much better in 6 months.

Cheers Cobbler

[expatbrit]

I have never met a Thai person speak near native English and that includes Thai people I knew living in Canada.

This program is one sick joke.

Maybe you move among the ranks of the uneducated !

Come and speak to my wife and a number of her friends if you wish to meet Thai people who speak better English than many "native" Canadians !

Ohh... here comes the high and mighty comment from a wanna be member of a Thai high class society.

With all due respect (I'm just kidding) I highly doubt your wife is that educated or speaks English language even close to a native English speaker... unless she lived most of her life out of Thailand. However, I doubt that. You are just bragging like most underachievers who marry into someone with some money and then use it as an opportunity to brag about their "success" on this forum.

You, of course, know nothing about me and the "circles" I am in. Since I have been with a rich Thai woman in Canada (bragging) and met her extremely rich friends who all graduated from Western universities or the most expensive international schools in Bangkok, none of them came even close to speaking English that was comparable to my level.

I say to my level because I am a Serb who only lived 19 years in Canada and 19 years in Serbia. So, my English is far from perfect.

However, comparing to their level it was probably Cambridge English.

So, yeah.... I'd like to speak to your wife.

Put your money where your mouth is....

Waiting for the invitation.

PM me!

That rant demonstrates exactly where on the education spectrum you fit.

We do not recogise ignorant remarks about the so called "high so"

My wife's early education and first degree were obtained in Thailand . All her post graduation training (and postgraduate degrees) were undertaken in the West !

And "yeah"! My wife would happy to inform you that "yeah" is a slang word commonly used by ill educated people.

[kaorop]

Actually, I'm a woman.

And really, I was just contradicting your comment that "all others are derived" from RP. That's not true. I'm glad you introduce other accents. That's definitely a very good thing. I just wanted make it clear that what we have amongst all of the current Englishes (plural) is parallel development. Your English has not maintained itself unchanged throughout the centuries while all others have diverged from it. That's not how language works.

"wrong again my man" is a quote from a song, not that anyone would pick that up, unless of course you happen to be really into 90's HipHop and Digital Underground more specifically , and I'm sure you may have found "wrong again my woman" just a little bit to familiar.

BTW do you know who the man of a thousand voices is? and if not have you found out?

[expatbrit]

theguyfromanotherforum

I, who have benefited from a good education, would never use common language such as "yeah" !

Time to close this pointless discussion.

Иди и научи добро енглески !

[Heng]

It's like listening to a table of Issanites arguing about whose bike has a louder tail pipe.

:-)

[nottocus]

And "yeah"! My wife would happy to inform you that "yeah" is a slang word commonly used by ill educated people.

Hahaha….toooo funny.

[JAG]

I doubt it will make very much difference replacing native speaking English teachers most of whom have no quals and are in Thailand for a lark.

May as well give the jobs to Thais even if they are incompetent as least it provides more local jobs.

How could the results be any worse for the students given the current level of English competency?

They would be better placed to learn Chinese in any case and at least Chinese has more similarities with Thai than English so they should be able to learn it a bit easier.

You obviously know the cubed root of <deleted> all about how one becomes a Native English Speaking teacher in Thailand.

Please enlighten me on the rigorous standards of education required to be a native English speaking teacher in Thailand

They are freely available on a number of websites, however I will summarise them for you.

You need a degree and a Teaching English as a Foreign Language qualification, issued by an institution recognised by the Ministry of Education. These qualifications must be approved by the relevant government offices which oversee government or private schools in the region in which you are to work( they reserve the right to verify them with the issuing institutions) . You also now need the appropriate ( for your nationality) police / criminal record clearances.

You may hold little regard for these qualifications, but they are those required by Thailand. Moreover presenting and having them accepted is sufficient of a bureaucratic assault course to deter those " just doing it for a lark".

I hope this helps.

[duanebigsby]

duanebigsby

Best return to school and learn about the source and derivation of English.

Here is a "starter" for beginners !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#History

Which horrible accent/derivation of "english" do you teach? The Sumerset , Lancashire , Yorkshire. Scouse or Geordie version ?

"Standard " English should be taught to children and other non English speakers.

The wiki article backs my statement that English hasn't one single source language, but many.

Standard English (often shortened to SE within linguistic circles) refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in any English-speaking country. It encompasses grammar, vocabulary and spelling.

I'm Canadian so quite difficult for me to teach the accents of the British regions you mention.

[Caitrin]

duanebigsby

Best return to school and learn about the source and derivation of English.

Here is a "starter" for beginners !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#History

Which horrible accent/derivation of "english" do you teach? The Sumerset , Lancashire , Yorkshire. Scouse or Geordie version ?

"Standard " English should be taught to children and other non English speakers.

The wiki article backs my statement that English hasn't one single source language, but many.

Standard English (often shortened to SE within linguistic circles) refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in any English-speaking country. It encompasses grammar, vocabulary and spelling.

I'm Canadian so quite difficult for me to teach the accents of the British regions you mention.

With the exception of those from certain locations (such as Newfoundland), I rarely if ever encounter a Canadian who does not share an accent which is very close to mine. The rural border accent often associated with Canadians is a stereotype, yet it can be found amongst Americans as well. Consider the movie Fargo. I have rarely encountered Canadians who are that obviously "Canadian." Most of the Canadians I know from large cities, such as Toronto, Ottawa, Vancouver, Edmonton, etc... Honestly? They sound very close to SAE to me, and I would say that there is very much a generalised sort of Northamerican accent. Indeed, I know plenty of people from PEI who I'd assume to be typical suburban American transplants if I met them in Texas.

Of course, with speaking so many years in my "learned" accent of SAE, no one believes I am from Texas. Or from the South more generally. Which is sort of the point.

[expatbrit]

duanebigsby

Best return to school and learn about the source and derivation of English.

Here is a "starter" for beginners !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#History

Which horrible accent/derivation of "english" do you teach? The Sumerset , Lancashire , Yorkshire. Scouse or Geordie version ?

"Standard " English should be taught to children and other non English speakers.

The wiki article backs my statement that English hasn't one single source language, but many.

Standard English (often shortened to SE within linguistic circles) refers to whatever form of the English language is accepted as a national norm in any English-speaking country. It encompasses grammar, vocabulary and spelling.

I'm Canadian so quite difficult for me to teach the accents of the British regions you mention.

As a learned scholar of all things "English" please listen to the link (yes it is "English" !) and provide an interpretation.

I guarantee neither you or any of your "students" will understand a word !

Which reinforces my belief that English should be taught using RP !

[Caitrin]

Expat, without looking it up, can you explain the meaning and usage of "yumptu" in Southern American English (that's U.S. south, not English spoken in South America). Can you explain the grammatical nuances of you vs. y'all vs. all y'all?

That matters not at all, because no one is advocating we teach these dialects. Your red herring is flopping around suffocating, so you best put it back where you found it.

All we are saying is that RP is far from the only standard of English to be found in the modern world. Go ahead, teach RP. Best of luck to you, but don't act like a student who successfully learns SAE or other standards, include Duane's Canadian standard, will be unable to understand RP.

[expatbrit]

Expat, without looking it up, can you explain the meaning and usage of "yumptu" in Southern American English (that's U.S. south, not English spoken in South America). Can you explain the grammatical nuances of you vs. y'all vs. all y'all?

That matters not at all, because no one is advocating we teach these dialects. Your red herring is flopping around suffocating, so you best put it back where you found it.

All we are saying is that RP is far from the only standard of English to be found in the modern world. Go ahead, teach RP. Best of luck to you, but don't act like a student who successfully learns SAE or other standards, include Duane's Canadian standard, will be unable to understand RP.

Having worked with a number of Americans I am aware of their "odd" use of language !

I have no idea what "yumptu" means and have no desire to know ! `

"Standard " English is the use of language that any English speaker should be able to understand without difficulty.

The use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding

[Caitrin]

Having worked with a number of Americans I am aware of their "odd" use of language !

I have no idea what "yumptu" means and have no desire to know ! `

"Standard " English is the use of language that any English speaker should be able to understand without difficulty.

The use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding

Dear Lord, man, you're not listening. You're just cherry-picking out pieces in order to create what you want to hear.

You're the one who put forward Geordi dialect, which I am sure that no highly educated American or Canadian would understand, unless they were a dialect scholar. My use of examples from the dialect I grew up with and do not use in the classroom, indeed, do not even use in daily life was to show how much of a canard your use of the Geordi dialect is. The whole point is that you don't use Geordi and I don't use Texan because no one would understand us, even other nationals from our own nation-states.

I have a standard use of language that any English speaker should understand without difficulty. But I don't speak RP. I speak SAE. I have yet to meet any native English speaker who has had difficulty understanding me. Nor have I ever met any second language English speaker of high functionality who has had difficulty understanding me. I specifically studied SAE and modified my speech for the purpose of teaching English. It was intentionally to give students a level playing field.

No one is arguing that "the use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding." We are denying that your accent is the only clear accent within the English family. It's not.

[METV]

As all the ridiculous and non-realistic new Thai laws, it will contribute to higher demand in black market.

Parents will resort to real private native to sort out their kids English.

[expatbrit]

Having worked with a number of Americans I am aware of their "odd" use of language !

I have no idea what "yumptu" means and have no desire to know ! `

"Standard " English is the use of language that any English speaker should be able to understand without difficulty.

The use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding

Dear Lord, man, you're not listening. You're just cherry-picking out pieces in order to create what you want to hear.

You're the one who put forward Geordi dialect, which I am sure that no highly educated American or Canadian would understand, unless they were a dialect scholar. My use of examples from the dialect I grew up with and do not use in the classroom, indeed, do not even use in daily life was to show how much of a canard your use of the Geordi dialect is. The whole point is that you don't use Geordi and I don't use Texan because no one would understand us, even other nationals from our own nation-states.

I have a standard use of language that any English speaker should understand without difficulty. But I don't speak RP. I speak SAE. I have yet to meet any native English speaker who has had difficulty understanding me. Nor have I ever met any second language English speaker of high functionality who has had difficulty understanding me. I specifically studied SAE and modified my speech for the purpose of teaching English. It was intentionally to give students a level playing field.

No one is arguing that "the use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding." We are denying that your accent is the only clear accent within the English family. It's not.

"Canard" is a French for Duck !

Your slang usage of the word is inappropriate unless you are intending to use the aeronautical meaning of the word !

[expatbrit]

Having worked with a number of Americans I am aware of their "odd" use of language !

I have no idea what "yumptu" means and have no desire to know ! `

"Standard " English is the use of language that any English speaker should be able to understand without difficulty.

The use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding

Dear Lord, man, you're not listening. You're just cherry-picking out pieces in order to create what you want to hear.

You're the one who put forward Geordi dialect, which I am sure that no highly educated American or Canadian would understand, unless they were a dialect scholar. My use of examples from the dialect I grew up with and do not use in the classroom, indeed, do not even use in daily life was to show how much of a canard your use of the Geordi dialect is. The whole point is that you don't use Geordi and I don't use Texan because no one would understand us, even other nationals from our own nation-states.

I have a standard use of language that any English speaker should understand without difficulty. But I don't speak RP. I speak SAE. I have yet to meet any native English speaker who has had difficulty understanding me. Nor have I ever met any second language English speaker of high functionality who has had difficulty understanding me. I specifically studied SAE and modified my speech for the purpose of teaching English. It was intentionally to give students a level playing field.

No one is arguing that "the use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding." We are denying that your accent is the only clear accent within the English family. It's not.

"Canard" is French for Duck !

Your slang usage of the word is inappropriate unless you were intending to use the aeronautical meaning of the word !

edit for clarity!

[Usernames]

FWIW.

Inspired by working with Kevin Spacey, Sir Trevor Nunn has claimed that American accents are "closer" than contemporary English to the accents of those used in the Bard's day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9143302/How-should-Shakespeare-really-sound.html

[expatbrit]

FWIW.

Inspired by working with Kevin Spacey, Sir Trevor Nunn has claimed that American accents are "closer" than contemporary English to the accents of those used in the Bard's day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9143302/H ow-should-Shakespeare-really-sound.html

The Bard was born in 1564 in the county of Warwickshire and is, therefore, more likely to have spoken with a Warwickshire/West Midlands accent.

Sir Trevor was indulging in some fancy academic "kite flying" !

[apetley]

FWIW.

Inspired by working with Kevin Spacey, Sir Trevor Nunn has claimed that American accents are "closer" than contemporary English to the accents of those used in the Bard's day.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/booknews/9143302/H ow-should-Shakespeare-really-sound.html

The Bard was born in 1564 in the county of Warwickshire and is, therefore, more likely to have spoken with a Warwickshire/West Midlands accent.

Sir Trevor was indulging in some fancy academic "kite flying" !

I concur with thee entirely valorous sir

[Caitrin]

A full 1/3rd of modern English comes from French.

Full Definition of CANARD

1

a : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report

b : a groundless rumor or belief

2

: an airplane with horizontal stabilizing and control surfaces in front of supporting surfaces; also : a small airfoil in front of the wing of an aircraft that can increase the aircraft's performance

"Canard." Merriam-Webster.com. Merriam-Webster, n.d. Web. 30 Nov. 2015.

[expatbrit]

A full 1/3rd of modern English comes from French.

Full Definition of CANARD

1

a : a false or unfounded report or story; especially : a fabricated report

b : a groundless rumor or belief

2

: an airplane with horizontal stabilizing and control surfaces in front of supporting surfaces; also : a small airfoil in front of the wing of an aircraft that can increase the aircraft's performance

"Canard." Merriam-Webster.com. Merriam-Webster, n.d. Web. 30 Nov. 2015.

"A full 1/3rd of modern English comes from French." Any evidence to support that assertion ?

http://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/canard

[simon43]

A full 1/3rd of modern English comes from French.

Indeed. In my adult ESL classes, I often point out words that originated from French, Spanish, Italian etc. The number of French words used in English often surprises my students.

Update - Although I haven't checked, I can believe the 1/3 claim.

My own surname and family originated in France (hi-so family of course...)

[Caitrin]

Here you go:

Gottlieb, H. (2006). Linguistic Influence. In Brown, Keith. Encyclopedia of language & linguistics. Elsevier. pp. 196–206. ISBN 978-0-08-044299-0.

Also, the use of canard in English comes from the practice of "selling ducks by half." Idiomatic French for "cheating." But that doesn't change the fact that it exists with that definition in modern English all by itself.

​Also, Parliament, that most English of English institutions, itself is from French!

[duanebigsby]

Having worked with a number of Americans I am aware of their "odd" use of language !

I have no idea what "yumptu" means and have no desire to know ! `

"Standard " English is the use of language that any English speaker should be able to understand without difficulty.

The use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding

Dear Lord, man, you're not listening. You're just cherry-picking out pieces in order to create what you want to hear.

You're the one who put forward Geordi dialect, which I am sure that no highly educated American or Canadian would understand, unless they were a dialect scholar. My use of examples from the dialect I grew up with and do not use in the classroom, indeed, do not even use in daily life was to show how much of a canard your use of the Geordi dialect is. The whole point is that you don't use Geordi and I don't use Texan because no one would understand us, even other nationals from our own nation-states.

I have a standard use of language that any English speaker should understand without difficulty. But I don't speak RP. I speak SAE. I have yet to meet any native English speaker who has had difficulty understanding me. Nor have I ever met any second language English speaker of high functionality who has had difficulty understanding me. I specifically studied SAE and modified my speech for the purpose of teaching English. It was intentionally to give students a level playing field.

No one is arguing that "the use of obscure contractions, distortions, slang and thick regional accents deny understanding." We are denying that your accent is the only clear accent within the English family. It's not.

"Canard" is a French for Duck !

Your slang usage of the word is inappropriate unless you are intending to use the aeronautical meaning of the word !

Then why is it in English dictionaries? It comes from a french expression meaning "you can't sell half a duck" and has now evolved into an English word meaning "rumour" or "hoax"

It isn't slang.