SiSePuede419 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Seriously though, even the most alcohol addled whore-monger can teach/speak English better than the vast majority of Thai English teachers." 99.9% of the English speakers in the world don't understand Cockney, so no. I've heard Thai teachers speak English better than many people I met in England and Scotland, 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Thailand needs to look forward to the next generation, as it's already too late for this generation. That pretty much sums it all up. Not just in education but several other areas as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oncearugge Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Seriously though, even the most alcohol addled whore-monger can teach/speak English better than the vast majority of Thai English teachers." 99.9% of the English speakers in the world don't understand Cockney, so no. I've heard Thai teachers speak English better than many people I met in England and Scotland, 555 English should be taught using "Received Pronunciation". Sadly few "english" teachers in Thailand would meet the standard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiSePuede419 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Those in the know have shorted the Thai baht and the SET and are hoping to make a killing as they drive both to near zero." Ah, yes the Everything is Being Done To Make Currency Speculators Rich theory. Except there's only one problem. Time value. What investment vehicle can you buy to short the Thai Baht that doesn't have a "time value" and expire worthless, thus risking 100% of the capital invested? Please explain this to us O Great Farang Currency Speculation Gurus! 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Fair enough. If the current bunch of farang rejects scraping a living on the English teaching circuit were any good, Thailand wouldn't score so poorly for English speaking. Let the locals have a go. Except for the fact that foreign English teachers in Thai government schools still need to teach the government curriculum which is often wrong and has been dumbed down to the level Thai English teachers can teach. Not that English teachers in Thailand are all the cream of the crop (some are, some aren't) but if they have to teach trash, the children will not learn regardless of how good or bad the teacher is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Those in the know have shorted the Thai baht and the SET and are hoping to make a killing as they drive both to near zero." Ah, yes the Everything is Being Done To Make Currency Speculators Rich theory. Except there's only one problem. Time value. What investment vehicle can you buy to short the Thai Baht that doesn't have a "time value" and expire worthless, thus risking 100% of the capital invested? Please explain this to us O Great Farang Currency Speculation Gurus! 555 It was a joke. Please explain your lack of humor to us O Great Farang of Seriousness. If you need the joke explained to you, it goes like this . . . For us farangs, we expect things to make sense. When we hear government policies that defy all logic we naturally assume that there must be some other rational explanation and thus look for it even when it may not exist at all. This was simply an attempt to satirize the only logical explanation while ignoring the fact that in Thailand logic, rationality, and reason are not necessarily components of a government policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I think it would work. Many Thai teachers do really want to learn English. The real problem is the teachers who are teaching them. Solve that problem and it would work. I would love to know what percentage that is. I'm guessing as a percentage of the total number of Thai teachers speaking English, it's very low. Or, there are lots of Thai English teachers who say they want to learn English but are unwilling to do anything to actually improve their English comprehension. Sort of like me. If you ask me if I would like to be able to speak Thai better, I'm going to say yes. Now, if you ask me if I would like to set aside an hour a day for the next year or two in order to learn to speak Thai better, I'm probably going to be able to find more useful things to do with my time. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Why is everyone so upset? TiT and so nothing should be taken seriously! The wind soon changes direction and everything will bend the other way. Years ago Taiwan would hire English backpackers with no teaching qualifications just to have their kids listen to genuine English. Maybe that's what needs to happen here? Exactly. I can't even count the number of shifts in Thai educational policy over the years. These things tend to last 1 - 2 years maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 "Under the "train-the-trainer" program, a group of 500 Thai teachers who teach English in government schools nationwide will take part in an intensive six-week training course taught by English specialists from the British Council." Fundamentally,it's the right idea. The problem is that 6 weeks is nowhere near long enough. Yes, exactly. I can probably speak Thai about as well as most Thai English teachers can speak English. If you told me that after six weeks there was some way to teach me to speak Thai fluently enough to teach Thai to others, I would call you a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Paying to learn to be an English teacher is like paying to learn how to make money in the stock market, real estate, gambling, whatever.... all it really does is get you interested in the "profession" you pay them.......i repeat, you pay them......so this is their business to sell some service to you and when you get the TESOL or whatever and they offer you 20,000 baht a month, you realize this skill isn't really valued that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Paying to learn to be an English teacher is like paying to learn how to make money in the stock market, real estate, gambling, whatever.... all it really does is get you interested in the "profession" There is a difference though. Technically (yes, I know in Thailand nothing is ever black or white) you're supposed to have a teaching certificate. So having a TESOL is a requirement to enter the profession. On the other hand, I don't need any certifications to flip houses or day trade stocks. Now, we can argue ROI on the education but the fact of the matter is that if an opportunity says that you have to have a specific degree or certification, you have to have it. In other cases, let's say in IT, paying to take courses to get certified in networking or email server configuration can make more jobs available to you than if you don't have the certification. But all of the examples you gave, stock market, real estate (unless you're talking about becoming a realtor), and gambling, have no certification requirement in order to take up that profession. Not that necessarily makes the education a bad deal. Believe me, if you take a real estate investing course and avoid even a single mistake, it can be well worth the cost of the course. I personally know of several people who offer coaching in one of the above mentioned areas and they've even provided me with free coaching just so I can review their offering. Yeah, the good ones are worth every penny. Of course, many of these courses are complete scams. But that's more an issue of researching before you purchase than the entire thought of paying someone to learn from them being a bad investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puukao Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 now we are going to have to define "certificate" and when everyone gets an "A" and the "certificate," does it lose its validity? The metric for trading and house flipping is super easy......did you make money? The metric for a good teacher can be exam scores, but that is usually discounted and isn't the basis for getting a bad teacher out of the profession. ROI for teaching in Thailand also depends on the opportunity cost lost while working in the western world. Teaching English from the age of 23-33 in Thailand is probably a horrible idea, since you lose out experience, benefits, etc.. from another city. not in all cases, but i would think working in London, NYC, etc...has exponentially greater potential. and very few people i know gives someone credit for teaching English abroad. they usually note, "oh, is he/she in their 20's" or "old hippy guy escaping reality." That stigma isn't good, certificate or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Just seen a report. Out of 43,000 Thai English teachers. Only 6 were fluent in English! Can you point us to that repot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I wont be popular but given the quality of a large percentage of the foreign teachers here I cant blame them. Yes there are very good committed teachers here from all backgrounds but unfortunately we all know that most are here for the booze and hookers and nothing else. You talk like booze and hookers are a bad thing :-) Seriously though, even the most alcohol addled whore-monger can teach/speak English better than the vast majority of Thai English teachers. yes, but he is not fit to teach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I wont be popular but given the quality of a large percentage of the foreign teachers here I cant blame them. Yes there are very good committed teachers here from all backgrounds but unfortunately we all know that most are here for the booze and hookers and nothing else. "I wont be popular" - I suspect you actually realise what a facile comment this is "we all know" - is a lead into a baseless premise if ever I saw one...and you seem to think booze and hookers precludes good teaching - another false premise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikmar Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 After working for a school and now a corporation I would say that the best English speajers are attracted to packages offered by the big companies. Its obvious right? If you want good Thai English teachers them make it worth while for the good speakers to train to be teachers. Easy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumgranosalum Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 not so much 'attracted" as the only ones they'll employ. If you go for a job in any mutli-national just about anywhere in the world, they'll ask you how good your English is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikmar Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 not so much 'attracted" as the only ones they'll employ. If you go for a job in any mutli-national just about anywhere in the world, they'll ask you how good your English is Sure. Good point. But can the Government not attract or persuade the good English speakers into teaching in the first place. It shouldbe thought about at least instead of daft ideas about training trainers. It d take a bit of time but its towards the greater good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
from the home of CC Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 The educational system is like many other ministries is this country - too many bureaucrats with too many afraid of their own futures than the future of the country. The middle east for years has been trying to rid itself of westerners, then realize they need them after all. Part of the problem here is the integrity of the higher education facilities in Thailand (and also many other countries in SE Asia). If cheating is overlooked where teachers obtain their credentials then the whole system fails.Cheating occurs all over the world but at least in other countries there are checks and balances that ensure most credits are actually earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CindyB Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The issue is to allow for a smooth transition. This British intensive course may be a good beginning. The teachers need to be able to speak English that is comprehensible to a native English speaking tourist whose first language is English. I realize that is a redundant statement, but I know some some Europeans, Philipinos, Singaporeans and others consider themselves native English speakers even though English is not their first language. This would be especially imperative earlier in the English learning process. I submitted a null vote in the survey becase it was a simple yes/no vote with no ability to post a caveat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apetley Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Just seen a report. Out of 43,000 Thai English teachers. Only 6 were fluent in English!Can you point us to that repot? This figure was in the Coconuts article in the OP. http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2015/11/13/officials-slash-number-foreign-english-teachers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev1lchris Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I'm at one of the top government schools in Thailand. I just talked with a Thai English teacher. His English is pitiful. I think the education system is so dysfunctional that they will never get most local teachers to a fluent level of English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reteid Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. And as most foreign teachers are employed at language institutes, private schools, universities or in the corporate sector, they will be entirely unaffected by this. But it does make for a good story and a popular thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanebigsby Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. This is just the beginning of a pilot project to see if it works to gradually decrease foreign teachers. No one has said gov't schools cant't hire foreigners. That'll be years down the road after this experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duanebigsby Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. And as most foreign teachers are employed at language institutes, private schools, universities or in the corporate sector, they will be entirely unaffected by this. But it does make for a good story and a popular thread! Gov't schools employ tons of foreigners. Every school of any size has a dozen or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. And as most foreign teachers are employed at language institutes, private schools, universities or in the corporate sector, they will be entirely unaffected by this. But it does make for a good story and a popular thread! Gov't schools employ tons of foreigners. Every school of any size has a dozen or so. Do they work in conjunction with the Thai English teachers? How do they survive on the salary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailanddogerator Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Only someone who never opened any other books but bank books in his life could take this kind of stupid decision. I have "done" hundreds of Thai girls within few years here, from university to high so 30+ biatches and I think no more than 10 were able to have a conversation in English (luckily it was not what I wanted from them anyway !). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangmai Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 please note, that only Goverment schools are involved on this issue. Private schools still can employ Foreign Teachers. And as most foreign teachers are employed at language institutes, private schools, universities or in the corporate sector, they will be entirely unaffected by this. But it does make for a good story and a popular thread! More people competing for fewer jobs.....guess what that means in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expatbrit Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 My next door neighbor is a Thai educated Teacher. This lady reads, writes and speaks better English than many of the foreign people who claim to be English "teachers" . These people are not qualified, cannot obtain a Thai teaching licence or work permit and would never be employed as "teachers" in their own countries. The Min Ed is correct in wishing to remove these bogus "teachers" I , in my younger days, was taught French, German and Latin by non native speakers of those languages and I still have the UK "A" level examination certificates which proved my competency in reading, writing and speaking those languages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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