Maybe it is useful to first study philosophy, before starting a debate such as this one.

Here's all you really want to know:

Some claim gay is natural.

Many people think it isn't (usually on advice from God).

I can't say either way (God doesn't speak to me .......much).

EDITED: To conform to guidelines specified below.

Homosexuality is certainly not natural, but that is not to say that homosexuals themselves should be treated any

differently to anyone else.

To my knowledge, homosexuality does not run in families, ie, if the father of a family is regularly in trouble with the

police, you will usually find that other members of the family usually are also. Have you ever heard of a family of homosexuals?

Some claim gay is natural.

Many people think it isn't (usually on advice from God).

I can't say either way (God doesn't speak to me .......much).

EDITED: To conform to guidelines specified below.

Homosexuality is certainly not natural, but that is not to say that homosexuals themselves should be treated any

differently to anyone else.

To my knowledge, homosexuality does not run in families, ie, if the father of a family is regularly in trouble with the

police, you will usually find that other members of the family usually are also. Have you ever heard of a family of homosexuals?

Yes. They died out,lol

Oh, look the homophobes are out in force on a sunny Sunday afternoon. Again. With their silly assumptions.

You may have a sibling that grew up in a normal family, with you. A family that had a mum and dad and children etc. a family with a steady income, no domestic violence, alcoholism, drug abuse in their perfect lives. Perhaps a pet dog or cat. (cat)

And then you find out 20 or so years later that your oh so perfect sister or brother was a serial killer? Or, shise, a gay?

I'd rather have a homosexual sibling than a murderer one.

I was born, my parents taught me right from wrong. I may have gone off the path a bit during my youth, i got back on. What they taught me is still in me. And one of those things is - to not be a bigoted, blinkered bitch and live with the times. And be polite. And how to use a knife and fork properly.

Nowadays, after living 30 years away from my parents. And my father dying 12 years ago. I find my mother to be more open about homosexuality, or children out of wedlock, or mixed marriages etc. conversations than she would not have been comfortable with when he was still alive. I find it great. I had very strict parents, but they taught me and my brother and sister lots of good values. And i know, if i had grown up and found myself to be a lesbian - they would have accepted my decision with open arms. And my super sexy girlfriend too, of course!!! Only the best for Pats!!!

"they would have accepted my decision with open arms"

So for you , you consider it a "decision" to be a lesbian ? not genetic of physiological

The argument of "nuture or nature" is longstanding.

My own opinion is there is a genetic predisposition toward behaviour and character traits. They can be developed or supressed but never extinguished.

I would agree with this, as it relates to most behavior. Some people may have violent tendencies if provoked. Or addictive personality if not controlled. Etc.

But sexual orientation, I believe that is genetics, you're born with it. We're not talking a man preferring a blonde female over brunette. Or preferring Asian over farang. To prefer someone of the same sex, you can't choose that. What gets murky are some young females who are naturally straight, but may experiment with another female (e.g., Tom and Dee in Thailand). I have it on good authority that this would be more prevalent elsewhere, like the US, if society was more tolerant.

(** small section deleted as dont wish/want to introduce that subject into this or any thread""" )

Sexuality I would think comes from when your born. Other traits come from upbringing.

I have never seen my father since I was 4 but my mother says I have manorisims like him. This could not be learned from him.

Parental teachings can either show you to be good or bad, polite or rude.

Also what country your born in makes you different. Being Scottish you will have different traits from a Thai say.

Meanwhile...back on topic.......

My reply to both your posts #14 & 17

The point of menting the probable outcomes (e.g., Armageddon, etc).,resulting from historical human behavior, is directly related to "are we born, or made this way". Perhaps if the OP had made a more specific point, by clarifying (with more specific detail) his view, regarding the "the way we are", then posters could reply more specifically, to that pointed topic issue. The OP's topic is very generic, to begin with. So how can anyone possibly digress from a non-specific topic point, or post an "off" topic comment?

Enlighten my point-head, on this matter, please!

Meanwhile...back on topic.......

My reply to both your posts #14 & 17

The point of menting the probable outcomes (e.g., Armageddon, etc).,resulting from historical human behavior, is directly related to "are we born, or made this way". Perhaps if the OP had made a more specific point, by clarifying (with more specific detail) his view, regarding the "the way we are", then posters could reply more specifically, to that pointed topic issue. The OP's topic is very generic, to begin with. So how can anyone possibly digress from a non-specific topic point, or post an "off" topic comment?

Enlighten my point-head, on this matter, please!

From the Op : "Something i and another poster said on another thread was deleted ,not because it was offensive but it did not relate ,we had gone off at a tangent .

so it made me think , are we born a certain way with certain urges or or preclavities , or do we learn them or have then pushed on us ?"

The thread referred to was about "ladyboys", and whether people were made that way or born that way, that was the reason for this thread being started.

Meanwhile...back on topic.......

My reply to both your posts #14 & 17

The point of menting the probable outcomes (e.g., Armageddon, etc).,resulting from historical human behavior, is directly related to "are we born, or made this way". Perhaps if the OP had made a more specific point, by clarifying (with more specific detail) his view, regarding the "the way we are", then posters could reply more specifically, to that pointed topic issue. The OP's topic is very generic, to begin with. So how can anyone possibly digress from a non-specific topic point, or post an "off" topic comment?

Enlighten my point-head, on this matter, please!

From the Op : "Something i and another poster said on another thread was deleted ,not because it was offensive but it did not relate ,we had gone off at a tangent .

so it made me think , are we born a certain way with certain urges or or preclavities , or do we learn them or have then pushed on us ?"

The thread referred to was about "ladyboys", and whether people were made that way or born that way, that was the reason for this thread being started.

Ok, thanks for the clarity. I should have read the OP more closely. Duh is me! Hence, no further reply comments from this quarter, regarding that OP topic. Cheers