Western couple buying a house in thailand

[ozyjon]

'' I agree with the 'knock-me-down' house idea. ''

These traditional wooden houses are brilliant, a lady

in a nearby town bought 2 of those houses, knocked

them down transported them to her land and re-built

them as a new house, the lady invited me to see her

house, i felt it was a work of art, i wish i owned one.

[khunPer]

Here's my tuppence worth. We bought from day one eight years ago and paid 6.2m for the house. The place next door rents for 40k a month. 8 x 12 x 40,000 = 3.84m. So our neighbours have paid almost two thirds of the value and nothing to show for it.

There will always be the insecure cheapskates who baulk at buying, struggling to buy their next beer, so best to ignore them.

As for moving to Malaysia ......... Inshallah. Stick with the Buddhists.

You have overlooked the concept of "opportunity cost" that is the increased value of your initial outlay would of achieved stocks one simple example. Buying hose in los is crazy.

I'm with JS on this, a simple calculation,

Lost interest on 6.2M in a Thai savings account for the last 8 years = 1.8M

So effective cost of your house to date 8M baht.

While your neighbors have paid 3.8M

Your figures don't look so good now!

You are assuming a house of Bt6.2m eight years ago is still only worth Bt6.2m today...

Could be worth more than 6.2M - or less...

It’s all depending on location, house standard, and potential buyers. If you wish to keep value of a house in Thailand, expect to spend money for maintenance - after 10+ years the land may be the most valuable asset.

Professional investors count 8 to 12 percent annually of their investment as renting price; and then market divination may come on top with a plus or minus.

Thais seems to count 10 percent annually of house construction price, but often not included the land; however some may have a higher rent, and some a lower, without any kind of (understandable) calculation.

So the 6.2M example as 10 percent annually over 10-years should be 50k a month, so 40k sounds fair.

6.2M invested in average 4 percent accumulating fund is almost 8.5M after 8 years (no taxes calculated), or around 50 percent up in 10 years. Invested in stock market, the long-term average is about 7 percent annually, over some 8-yaers about 10.5M, or double up in 10 years.

Counting long-term average as double up of land or property value over 10 years seems fair most places, so the 6.2M should “statistically” be up around 10M after 8 years, but in some areas it can be hard to resell with average property gain. Furthermore, in Thailand you shall pay property gain tax, either as company tax, which can be as high as 30 percent of the gain, or as personal income tax. And you only know the real value, when you sell the house – or your neighbor sells a similar...

The average statistically capital gain compared between stocks and property may be very small. Stocks are easier and faster to sell and convert into cash than property. Taking risk factors into consideration, like investing in Thai property as foreign couple using for example a company set-up – that will cost 40k and up annually in expenses – and compare to rent, the potential capital gain from owing property may be risky. However, if you can afford “the Lottery coupon”, meaning loosing your investment, and can afford the price for running a Thai company, and afford maintenance for a house in the right price-end, it can be a good investment. Especially the more luxuries part on the right location of Thai real estate market seems easy to sell and with a good value increase.

It’s individual which is the cheapest or best investment; paying rent or owing the home with expenses for maintenance etc.

By the way: A good place to look for fair priced property are the Thai banks – many have a property for sale pin board or a printed leaflet/paper with houses from non-performing loans, often resold for outstanding value and lower than a free trade price.

[trogers]

Here's my tuppence worth. We bought from day one eight years ago and paid 6.2m for the house. The place next door rents for 40k a month. 8 x 12 x 40,000 = 3.84m. So our neighbours have paid almost two thirds of the value and nothing to show for it.

There will always be the insecure cheapskates who baulk at buying, struggling to buy their next beer, so best to ignore them.

As for moving to Malaysia ......... Inshallah. Stick with the Buddhists.

You have overlooked the concept of "opportunity cost" that is the increased value of your initial outlay would of achieved stocks one simple example. Buying hose in los is crazy.

I'm with JS on this, a simple calculation,

Lost interest on 6.2M in a Thai savings account for the last 8 years = 1.8M

So effective cost of your house to date 8M baht.

While your neighbors have paid 3.8M

Your figures don't look so good now!

You are assuming a house of Bt6.2m eight years ago is still only worth Bt6.2m today...

Could be worth more than 6.2M - or less...

Its all depending on location, house standard, and potential buyers. If you wish to keep value of a house in Thailand, expect to spend money for maintenance - after 10+ years the land may be the most valuable asset.

Professional investors count 8 to 12 percent annually of their investment as renting price; and then market divination may come on top with a plus or minus.

Thais seems to count 10 percent annually of house construction price, but often not included the land; however some may have a higher rent, and some a lower, without any kind of (understandable) calculation.

So the 6.2M example as 10 percent annually over 10-years should be 50k a month, so 40k sounds fair.

6.2M invested in average 4 percent accumulating fund is almost 8.5M after 8 years (no taxes calculated), or around 50 percent up in 10 years. Invested in stock market, the long-term average is about 7 percent annually, over some 8-yaers about 10.5M, or double up in 10 years.

Counting long-term average as double up of land or property value over 10 years seems fair most places, so the 6.2M should statistically be up around 10M after 8 years, but in some areas it can be hard to resell with average property gain. Furthermore, in Thailand you shall pay property gain tax, either as company tax, which can be as high as 30 percent of the gain, or as personal income tax. And you only know the real value, when you sell the house or your neighbor sells a similar...

The average statistically capital gain compared between stocks and property may be very small. Stocks are easier and faster to sell and convert into cash than property. Taking risk factors into consideration, like investing in Thai property as foreign couple using for example a company set-up that will cost 40k and up annually in expenses and compare to rent, the potential capital gain from owing property may be risky. However, if you can afford the Lottery coupon, meaning loosing your investment, and can afford the price for running a Thai company, and afford maintenance for a house in the right price-end, it can be a good investment. Especially the more luxuries part on the right location of Thai real estate market seems easy to sell and with a good value increase.

Its individual which is the cheapest or best investment; paying rent or owing the home with expenses for maintenance etc.

By the way: A good place to look for fair priced property are the Thai banks many have a property for sale pin board or a printed leaflet/paper with houses from non-performing loans, often resold for outstanding value and lower than a free trade price.

Houses being resold from foreclosure are usually poorly located that they could not even be rented out to cover mortgage installments.

But a very small numbers could be attractive but are foreclosed due to bad loans arising from business failure.

[duckmandon]

Those knock me downs look v nice. But we are looking at a moo Bahn currently

Where are you looking? I have a nice house with western kitchen, 3 bedrooms plus bedroom/study, landscaped gardens with Thai Lanna style sala. Its for sale! I am in Chiang Mai. PM me if your interested.

[davidcnx]

As one person wrote, Thailand is still easily the best of the bunch in Asia, in terms of quality of life. That said, as in the west, it is wise to be careful and to do things correctly. Our lawyer set up a company for us, in which my partner and I, Laos and Canadian respectively, bought land and built two, very upmarket houses, one for us and one to sell or rent.

I asked the lawyer to make sure that every detail is absolutely watertight legally and she has done that, according to existing law, which is all anyone can do, of course. A change in law is not going to be retrospective and Thailand cannot afford especially now, to be punitive to foreign investors, of which there are many.

The current political situation will pass, once certain major imminent events take place, and then Thailand will be back to normal.

[Pinot]

I wrote about this on my Kamalala blog last year:

There is a strong urge for many expats to own their own home in Thailand, not a good idea. A foreigner can’t own the land their property sits on. A non-Thai cannot own land. They can own the building on the land. You have to lease the land back from a Thai. A foreigner can sometimes own apartments or condominiums, under the Thailand Condominium Act. Many expats have purchased property and are happy with their purchase. Let’s just say, others aren’t so happy.

It’s simply cheaper and makes financial sense to rent. Let’s take the condo I live in, for example. It’s a beautiful three bedroom, 2 bath, furnished, luxury condo with 3 pools, just five minutes from the beach. The selling price for one of these units is $160,000. There is a 30 year lease, you never actually own the condo. The monthly ownership fee is $320. This covers management, security, pool service, gardeners and maintenance. If I invest $160,000 at say 6%, it comes out to be $800 a month plus the $320 for the monthly maintenance fee. That’s a total of $1,120 a month. I rent for $800 a month! By buying the unit, I would lose $320 a month and tie up a considerable amount of principal.

What about appreciation? Condos aren’t like fine wine, prices go down as they age. Construction standards are poor. They age miserably. The prices of condos where I live are going down in price. People don’t pay a premium price for second hand units. The more expensive the unit, the smaller the market is and new units are opening every day…and not selling. The building goes on relentlessly and unsold inventory just keeps rising. There is a housing bubble in Bangkok and Phuket.

Condos are often badly managed. The money for the maintenance is squandered, spent on silly things or more likely just pocketed. A strong owner’s committee has to oversee how fees are being spent or else it disappears. Often the owners of a condo project go bust or fees simply aren’t paid. Fees collected are barely adequate to pay for costs. With a lack of basic services, building maintenance just doesn’t happen and value of all units in the project goes down!

There are the usual problems with living in a condo. Noisy neighbors or noise from outside, you name it. Factors that are easily solved in the West can be a nightmare in Thailand. When you have a problem in Thailand, it is not always easily solved. Trying to solve it often escalates it to another level and you’re left with one way to fix it…move!

Everything I’ve written about condos goes for houses as well. I have a friend who built a luxury home on spec. It’s a gorgeous home, he originally put on sale for $550k. A few years later it’s still unsold at $390k. Renting a property in Thailand is the way to go. It suits expats to rent because they can come and go as they please and not have money tied up in a country with an unstable government.

I suggest investment elsewhere and use the income from those investments to rent in Thailand. Places do sell, but the market is slow. There are plenty of places to rent. Rents in various parts of the country vary widely. In Phuket 10,000 baht ($300) a month would “buy” very little for a foreigner; however in Chaing Mai it could mean a very comfortable house or apartment. Rents are always negotiable with the low season is the time to shop. A year-long contract is the way to go, bearing in mind that the owner will want to charge more for the high season. Try and avoid doing business with a Thai landlord by the way. Make sure your lease spells out exactly how a deposit is to be returned.

Bottom line: Save your money, rent in Thailand.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

He'll speak to a lawyer.... My god these are the people who get people into a mess in the first place.

Op should only buy a condo directly from a reputable builder.

[canda]

Have you actually read the Poster's original request for advise ? It clearly states that they have rented for a couple of years & are sick of wasting money on dead rent.

Possibly an oversight on your behalf, but as this is a Thai forum could you use Thai Baht rather than $$$$...

I, like many would very much like to know your investment strategy for making 6% p.a on that amount ???

It would appear that even though you are espousing owning / leasing out a condo, you are happy to pay your landlord for the privilege of having a roof over your head, thus paying his overheads & giving a nice little monthly income.

You make a really good argument for actually buying property other than a condo, high maintenance fees, poor construction, poor lifespan, bad management & overall rapid depreciation.

You might consider that buying might tie up some principal, but it is an asset & it is yours, pride of ownership for those that can own, rather than borrow, is a rather tangible attraction.

CANDA.

I wrote about this on my Kamalala blog last year:

There is a strong urge for many expats to own their own home in Thailand, not a good idea. A foreigner can’t own the land their property sits on. A non-Thai cannot own land. They can own the building on the land. You have to lease the land back from a Thai. A foreigner can sometimes own apartments or condominiums, under the Thailand Condominium Act. Many expats have purchased property and are happy with their purchase. Let’s just say, others aren’t so happy.

It’s simply cheaper and makes financial sense to rent. Let’s take the condo I live in, for example. It’s a beautiful three bedroom, 2 bath, furnished, luxury condo with 3 pools, just five minutes from the beach. The selling price for one of these units is $160,000. There is a 30 year lease, you never actually own the condo. The monthly ownership fee is $320. This covers management, security, pool service, gardeners and maintenance. If I invest $160,000 at say 6%, it comes out to be $800 a month plus the $320 for the monthly maintenance fee. That’s a total of $1,120 a month. I rent for $800 a month! By buying the unit, I would lose $320 a month and tie up a considerable amount of principal.

What about appreciation? Condos aren’t like fine wine, prices go down as they age. Construction standards are poor. They age miserably. The prices of condos where I live are going down in price. People don’t pay a premium price for second hand units. The more expensive the unit, the smaller the market is and new units are opening every day…and not selling. The building goes on relentlessly and unsold inventory just keeps rising. There is a housing bubble in Bangkok and Phuket.

Condos are often badly managed. The money for the maintenance is squandered, spent on silly things or more likely just pocketed. A strong owner’s committee has to oversee how fees are being spent or else it disappears. Often the owners of a condo project go bust or fees simply aren’t paid. Fees collected are barely adequate to pay for costs. With a lack of basic services, building maintenance just doesn’t happen and value of all units in the project goes down!

There are the usual problems with living in a condo. Noisy neighbors or noise from outside, you name it. Factors that are easily solved in the West can be a nightmare in Thailand. When you have a problem in Thailand, it is not always easily solved. Trying to solve it often escalates it to another level and you’re left with one way to fix it…move!

Everything I’ve written about condos goes for houses as well. I have a friend who built a luxury home on spec. It’s a gorgeous home, he originally put on sale for $550k. A few years later it’s still unsold at $390k. Renting a property in Thailand is the way to go. It suits expats to rent because they can come and go as they please and not have money tied up in a country with an unstable government.

I suggest investment elsewhere and use the income from those investments to rent in Thailand. Places do sell, but the market is slow. There are plenty of places to rent. Rents in various parts of the country vary widely. In Phuket 10,000 baht ($300) a month would “buy” very little for a foreigner; however in Chaing Mai it could mean a very comfortable house or apartment. Rents are always negotiable with the low season is the time to shop. A year-long contract is the way to go, bearing in mind that the owner will want to charge more for the high season. Try and avoid doing business with a Thai landlord by the way. Make sure your lease spells out exactly how a deposit is to be returned.

Bottom line: Save your money, rent in Thailand.

[br0wnd0g23]

Again. Thanks for the posts. And again we never mentioned that we want to buy as an investment. If that happens then bonus. We want to have a house that we can do what we want with. 30 years is a long time. So if we can pay it off in 6 or 7 years which we plan to do, then we have a possible 23 years with no more rent. We do plan to stay here for a long time, as we have had two great years here and see no benefit to moving back to the uk. The one thing I am interested in is how solid thay 30 year lease would be. Or how safe the business option is. Plus if there are any Western couples that have done this before, then I would be very interested in hearing from them. We are in our thirties and it is time for us to get our own place we can meddle with as we please. Cheers again.

[tomwct]

Don't Buy Anything in Thailand! If you must buy go to Malaysia!

[williamgeorgeallen]

well you have ignored most of the good advice here. getting finance in Thailand is difficult. often the terms are 10 year loan, 50percent deposit, 10 percent interest for foreigners. if you haven't listened to anyone else there is no point me trying either. think the borrowing to buy will stop you anyway as you cant borrow money to buy land you are not legally allowed to own.

[TuskegeeBen]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

The visa "rules" have been changing all the time, for the past 50-years.Yet, there remains a boatload of western expats whom have remained in The Kingdom for 30+ years.

They have bought homes, wives, children, even grandchildren, without having endured any significant Thai Immigration Law changes, that adversely affected their particular chosen lifestyles.

Ah, therein lies the key--having a Thai family who can own the property. This is a Western couple.

The problem is threefold: too many cuckolded farangs loose their investments, too many inequitable legal issues if you are farang, and ever-increasing numbers of hoops to jump through to maintain farang immigration status. All of these adversely affect your chances of peaceful existence and amenable resale.

Your three-fold points are well received. However, the main reason why so many farangs loose their money is simple. They are block-headedly stupid, and refuse to seek legal counsel, prior to putting their money on the table. You already know the rest of that Richard Forbrain story.

Anyway, I agree that the OP should focus more on renting a condo first (from six-months, to one-year), in a 49/51 Farang/Thai mix complex of their preference, prior to making any purchase. Buying a house, in any Thai soi, where majority of owners (who actually live there) are not predominately ethnic Chinese, is a huge mistake.

Edited November 16, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Now he wants to borrow money.

Hilarious.

[TuskegeeBen]

Don't Buy Anything in Thailand! If you must buy go to Malaysia!

Great advice for the manic-depressive expats, who have no problem with living in an oppressive, Muslim dominated country;

and, also, Malaysia is a country that will happily hang your butt @ the gallows, for being in possession of non-addictive gonjo. Huh?

Edited November 16, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

Now he wants to borrow money.

Hilarious.

Exactamundo!

[swissie]

As one person wrote, Thailand is still easily the best of the bunch in Asia, in terms of quality of life. That said, as in the west, it is wise to be careful and to do things correctly. Our lawyer set up a company for us, in which my partner and I, Laos and Canadian respectively, bought land and built two, very upmarket houses, one for us and one to sell or rent.

I asked the lawyer to make sure that every detail is absolutely watertight legally and she has done that, according to existing law, which is all anyone can do, of course. A change in law is not going to be retrospective and Thailand cannot afford especially now, to be punitive to foreign investors, of which there are many.

The current political situation will pass, once certain major imminent events take place, and then Thailand will be back to normal.

Your lawyer may oppose to it. But Google the word "victim". Report back 2 years from now.

The disease called "naivete" is far worse than smallpox.

Cheers.

[TuskegeeBen]

This is really quite simple. Thai wife knows the ropes and can deal with issues that arise. I don't understand this talk to the lawyers attitude. Lawyers don't protect your interests.

We are definitely on two toally different pages in that regard. First how does a foreign buyer assess the reputation of a builder. There are a boatload of so-called reputable builders who have gone bankrupt , midway thru the construction process. You know the rest of that story.

I can only speak to my own experience, re: a reputable, honest Thai attorney. In Jomtien, there exists a Thai Lawyer, who actually has a Facebook following of western expat clients, who also retain his services, on an annual basis.

Edited November 16, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

As one person wrote, Thailand is still easily the best of the bunch in Asia, in terms of quality of life. That said, as in the west, it is wise to be careful and to do things correctly. Our lawyer set up a company for us, in which my partner and I, Laos and Canadian respectively, bought land and built two, very upmarket houses, one for us and one to sell or rent.

I asked the lawyer to make sure that every detail is absolutely watertight legally and she has done that, according to existing law, which is all anyone can do, of course. A change in law is not going to be retrospective and Thailand cannot afford especially now, to be punitive to foreign investors, of which there are many.

The current political situation will pass, once certain major imminent events take place, and then Thailand will be back to normal.

Your lawyer may oppose to it. But Google the word "victim". Report back 2 years from now.

The disease called "naivete" is far worse than smallpox.

Cheers.

Ditto

[khunPer]

Again. Thanks for the posts. And again we never mentioned that we want to buy as an investment. If that happens then bonus. We want to have a house that we can do what we want with. 30 years is a long time. So if we can pay it off in 6 or 7 years which we plan to do, then we have a possible 23 years with no more rent. We do plan to stay here for a long time, as we have had two great years here and see no benefit to moving back to the uk. The one thing I am interested in is how solid thay 30 year lease would be. Or how safe the business option is. Plus if there are any Western couples that have done this before, then I would be very interested in hearing from them. We are in our thirties and it is time for us to get our own place we can meddle with as we please. Cheers again.

30-year Lease Agreements are solid, as they shall be stated on the title deed at the Land Office – even land is sold, lease shall continue. Any lease over 3 years shall be written on the title deed to be valid. There is a small tax to be paid at the Land Department, think is still 1 percent of the lease sum, but for the whole period, i.e. up to 30 years, so it can sum up. Have a lawyer to make the Lease Agreement written in both English and Thai – Thai only will be the legal language – and make the law-office clear the registrations at the Land Office.

My neighbor is a British couple, coming over here from Hong Kong, and they build their house about same time as me. As he is a lawyer with real estate as specialty, I presume he has done it all correctly.

Some building constructers offers mortgage to foreigners. Where I live, I know Australian managed building constructors offering loans from an Australian finance-something; I’m not familiar, as I didn’t need loan.

Building on leased land, you can sell your house with the remaining time of the Lease Agreement – have the agreement made transferable – however, the less time left, the less value of the house.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Some building constructers offers mortgage to foreigners. Where I live, I know Australian managed building constructors offering loans from an Australian finance-something; I’m not familiar, as I didn’t need loan.

Ahh... yes.... one of those.

Foreigner price 20% higher than Thai price.

Have a Thai friend ask and report back.

[smotherb]

If you want lose money go ahead , and buy, advice here is pretty simple , dont forget visa rules change all the time.

The visa "rules" have been changing all the time, for the past 50-years.Yet, there remains a boatload of western expats whom have remained in The Kingdom for 30+ years.

They have bought homes, wives, children, even grandchildren, without having endured any significant Thai Immigration Law changes, that adversely affected their particular chosen lifestyles.

Ah, therein lies the key--having a Thai family who can own the property. This is a Western couple.

The problem is threefold: too many cuckolded farangs loose their investments, too many inequitable legal issues if you are farang, and ever-increasing numbers of hoops to jump through to maintain farang immigration status. All of these adversely affect your chances of peaceful existence and amenable resale.

Your three-fold points are well received. However, the main reason why so many farangs loose their money is simple. They are block-headedly stupid, and refuse to seek legal counsel, prior to putting their money on the table. You already know the rest of that Richard Forbrain story.

Anyway, I agree that the OP should focus more on renting a condo first (from six-months, to one-year), in a 49/51 Farang/Thai mix complex of their preference, prior to making any purchase. Buying a house, in any Thai soi, where majority of owners (who actually live there) are not predominately ethnic Chinese, is a huge mistake.

I think you have just reinforced my point by adding even more caveats for achieving a happy ending.

[LivinLOS]

So the 6.2M example as 10 percent annually over 10-years should be 50k a month, so 40k sounds fair.

No where I have lived has been close..

30 - 35 million baht villa.. 70k a month.. Villa destroyed, total loss for the owner.

12 - 16 mil home on Phuket 45k a month.

12 mil asking (reality perhaps 8 mil) and its 28k a month.

Just moved to a new house.. 7 mil asking price and 30 a month, but for that he spent 300k on furnishings and new fitted kitchen. One of the worst price to rentals I have agreed in 10 year though.

[LivinLOS]

As one person wrote, Thailand is still easily the best of the bunch in Asia, in terms of quality of life. That said, as in the west, it is wise to be careful and to do things correctly. Our lawyer set up a company for us, in which my partner and I, Laos and Canadian respectively, bought land and built two, very upmarket houses, one for us and one to sell or rent.

I asked the lawyer to make sure that every detail is absolutely watertight legally and she has done that, according to existing law, which is all anyone can do, of course. A change in law is not going to be retrospective and Thailand cannot afford especially now, to be punitive to foreign investors, of which there are many.

The current political situation will pass, once certain major imminent events take place, and then Thailand will be back to normal.

Theres nothing watertight in a shell company being a nominee owner.. and anyone who has convinced themselves that its really legal is dreaming.

Its just 'getting away with it for now'

[LivinLOS]

http://www.samuiforsale.com/real-estate/foreigners-warned-on-land.html

Foreigners warned on land ownership inThailand

Maybe get that lawyers 'watertight' comments on this..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/9413075/Expats-warned-of-illegal-home-crackdown-in-Thailand.html

Expats warned of illegal home crackdown in Thailand

Edited November 16, 2015 by LivinLOS

[huawei]

This is the silliest idea I have come across in awhile and even more surprising is that there is no Thai involved..it beggars belief..it proves one adage..foreigners can lose rationality in Thailand of their own accord..and then compound it by ignoring consistent " experienced" advice..

[trogers]

So the 6.2M example as 10 percent annually over 10-years should be 50k a month, so 40k sounds fair.

No where I have lived has been close..

30 - 35 million baht villa.. 70k a month.. Villa destroyed, total loss for the owner.

12 - 16 mil home on Phuket 45k a month.

12 mil asking (reality perhaps 8 mil) and its 28k a month.

Just moved to a new house.. 7 mil asking price and 30 a month, but for that he spent 300k on furnishings and new fitted kitchen. One of the worst price to rentals I have agreed in 10 year though.

Looking at the rental rates, property valuation using the investment method says that prices are very bubbly...

But then, who can put a price on the desire for a nostril hair of Elvis?

[trogers]

As one person wrote, Thailand is still easily the best of the bunch in Asia, in terms of quality of life. That said, as in the west, it is wise to be careful and to do things correctly. Our lawyer set up a company for us, in which my partner and I, Laos and Canadian respectively, bought land and built two, very upmarket houses, one for us and one to sell or rent.

I asked the lawyer to make sure that every detail is absolutely watertight legally and she has done that, according to existing law, which is all anyone can do, of course. A change in law is not going to be retrospective and Thailand cannot afford especially now, to be punitive to foreign investors, of which there are many.

The current political situation will pass, once certain major imminent events take place, and then Thailand will be back to normal.

Theres nothing watertight in a shell company being a nominee owner.. and anyone who has convinced themselves that its really legal is dreaming.

Its just 'getting away with it for now'

And when the hammer comes down, the wiggly snakes cry for legal protection from unfair treatment... recalling the recent court verdict on 30++ land leases...

Those were once watertight structures of legal advisors too...

[Fairynuff]

I wrote about this on my Kamalala blog last year:

There is a strong urge for many expats to own their own home in Thailand, not a good idea. A foreigner cant own the land their property sits on. A non-Thai cannot own land. They can own the building on the land. You have to lease the land back from a Thai. A foreigner can sometimes own apartments or condominiums, under the Thailand Condominium Act. Many expats have purchased property and are happy with their purchase. Lets just say, others arent so happy.

Its simply cheaper and makes financial sense to rent. Lets take the condo I live in, for example. Its a beautiful three bedroom, 2 bath, furnished, luxury condo with 3 pools, just five minutes from the beach. The selling price for one of these units is $160,000. There is a 30 year lease, you never actually own the condo. The monthly ownership fee is $320. This covers management, security, pool service, gardeners and maintenance. If I invest $160,000 at say 6%, it comes out to be $800 a month plus the $320 for the monthly maintenance fee. Thats a total of $1,120 a month. I rent for $800 a month! By buying the unit, I would lose $320 a month and tie up a considerable amount of principal.

What about appreciation? Condos arent like fine wine, prices go down as they age. Construction standards are poor. They age miserably. The prices of condos where I live are going down in price. People dont pay a premium price for second hand units. The more expensive the unit, the smaller the market is and new units are opening every dayand not selling. The building goes on relentlessly and unsold inventory just keeps rising. There is a housing bubble in Bangkok and Phuket.

Condos are often badly managed. The money for the maintenance is squandered, spent on silly things or more likely just pocketed. A strong owners committee has to oversee how fees are being spent or else it disappears. Often the owners of a condo project go bust or fees simply arent paid. Fees collected are barely adequate to pay for costs. With a lack of basic services, building maintenance just doesnt happen and value of all units in the project goes down!

There are the usual problems with living in a condo. Noisy neighbors or noise from outside, you name it. Factors that are easily solved in the West can be a nightmare in Thailand. When you have a problem in Thailand, it is not always easily solved. Trying to solve it often escalates it to another level and youre left with one way to fix itmove!

Everything Ive written about condos goes for houses as well. I have a friend who built a luxury home on spec. Its a gorgeous home, he originally put on sale for $550k. A few years later its still unsold at $390k. Renting a property in Thailand is the way to go. It suits expats to rent because they can come and go as they please and not have money tied up in a country with an unstable government.

I suggest investment elsewhere and use the income from those investments to rent in Thailand. Places do sell, but the market is slow. There are plenty of places to rent. Rents in various parts of the country vary widely. In Phuket 10,000 baht ($300) a month would buy very little for a foreigner; however in Chaing Mai it could mean a very comfortable house or apartment. Rents are always negotiable with the low season is the time to shop. A year-long contract is the way to go, bearing in mind that the owner will want to charge more for the high season. Try and avoid doing business with a Thai landlord by the way. Make sure your lease spells out exactly how a deposit is to be returned.

Bottom line: Save your money, rent in Thailand.

What a load of tosh!!!

Yes SOME condos are badly managed, SOME condos are badly constructed and so on....RESEARCH and you avoid them. BTW Thailand uses a currency called BAHT.

6% ??? I do much better than where I invest.

Forgive me but I won't be taking your advice

[Fairynuff]

Setting up a bogus company, yes bogus to own a house, and being a minority shareholder. Totally nuts in my opinion. The lease option has not truly been tested as its a relatively new option. Fine it's written into the contract that you have the option to renew. Suppose you are told the cost of renewal is 10 times the value of the house?

Lawyer tells you a lease is watertight? Here's a bucket full of holes but believe it IS watertight.

[davidcnx]

The truth of the matter is that all of us here, including people who fancy themselves as "experienced" or "experts", are merely amateurs giving our subjective opinions. All one can do is to try to make an informed decision, based on what one wants in life. I have owned and lived in several upmarket condos in Chiang Mai, which, despite their status and price, were pretty rubbish in terms of construction. I have also looked at many moo baan houses, again, quite pricey, and found them all to be low quality construction with a gloss of "luxury": built to look good for a while, but unlikely to last.

In the end, I decided to form a company, buy land exactly where I want it and build a beautiful top quality home. After all, who, in their 60s, after 40 years of work and having a reasonable amount of money, wants to rent and live with someone else's OK location and bad taste in terms of house design, furniture and fittings? Not me!

If a Thai lawyer, trained here and in Australia, and her partner accountant, don't know how to construct a legally valid company on the basis of current legislation, then nobody on this website does, that's for sure, though they may claim to be the font of all knowledge.

I repeat: let's acknowledge that we, here, are mere amateurs, not experts in Thai legislation and its applications in practice. For that, we turn to those who are professionally qualified and really do know better....exactly as we would in our countries of origin.