Trump: Paris attack would have been different with more guns

[sirineou]

<snip messed up quotes>

Yes I read it. I admit by asking if security staff were armed didn't get my point across which was that if the security followed the rules then maybe there wouldn't have been casualties.

I'd also argue that these are weapons trained personnel who may have erred in their duties. I could see untrained civilians causing even greater carnage if involved in a terrorist attack simply by panicking and firing erratically, something a terrorist has no need to consider.

In Fort Hood, Major Hassan walked in to a National Guard unit being processed for deployment to Iraq, he sat down for a moment then stood up, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and began firing. Three unarmed soldiers charged him and he murdered two of them wounding the third. I daresay if one of those three had been armed, Major Hassan would not have completed his murderous mission.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes before local police arrived to take him down.

The NAVSEA shootings took a longer period of time to conclude as the shooter hid in a maze of buildings until found and killed by local police, NCIS and base security people. Aaron Alexis eventually murdered 11 people, three of them women.

I daresay that had any of the 11 victims been armed, there might not have been the same number of casualties. Just speculating.

If he'd been armed with an assault rifle, as we're the Paris terrorists, my guess would be he'd have killed all three if he had the element of surprise, as did the Paris attackers.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, I guess we'll have to disagree. I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that.

you are absolutely right

it might change the outcome of individual incidents, but it would greatly increase occurrence of incidents

I remember after 9/11 in the US an idiot when out and killed a Sikh Indian because of the head turban he thought he was Arab. not that it would had being right even if he was Arab,

can you imagine? arm every idiot.

French walking the streets with guns some looking for revenge, Kids walking out of Madrasas, with guns in their pocket, after western intrusion in an Arab country.

[MrTee]

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

That is simple enough to answer they are cowards. not a real man amongst them

Did the fact that many in the US have guns stop 9/11, or Boston, or Columbine, or Sandy Hook, or.....?

More guns is not the answer..

[sirineou]

I just see this Thread, I cant believe this.

Incredible and very scary that a lunatic like him could become president of the most powerful country in the world

if everyone had guns, would it not also mean that every radical extremist , would have guns?

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

yes the EIGHT had guns, if we left it up to you, Thousands will have guns

I guess you must own stock in the bulletproof vest industry

[cumgranosalum]

You do realize that not even policemen carry guns in some European countries (UK for example). The mentality is totally different.

Very foolish indeed...

had to laugh.

Here is what happens to unarmed policman when they are arresting a packing villain...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-14171415\

any questions?

What do they use when the baddies draw their weapons and say..."Badges"? "We don't like your stinking badges"? bam bam.

do they throw billie clubs back?

What a foolish post - I think about 1 minute is all it takes to see how an unarmed police force works,,,...and the benefits....

Edited November 15, 2015 by cumgranosalum

[chuckd]

<snip messed up quotes>

Yes I read it. I admit by asking if security staff were armed didn't get my point across which was that if the security followed the rules then maybe there wouldn't have been casualties.

I'd also argue that these are weapons trained personnel who may have erred in their duties. I could see untrained civilians causing even greater carnage if involved in a terrorist attack simply by panicking and firing erratically, something a terrorist has no need to consider.

In Fort Hood, Major Hassan walked in to a National Guard unit being processed for deployment to Iraq, he sat down for a moment then stood up, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and began firing. Three unarmed soldiers charged him and he murdered two of them wounding the third. I daresay if one of those three had been armed, Major Hassan would not have completed his murderous mission.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes before local police arrived to take him down.

The NAVSEA shootings took a longer period of time to conclude as the shooter hid in a maze of buildings until found and killed by local police, NCIS and base security people. Aaron Alexis eventually murdered 11 people, three of them women.

I daresay that had any of the 11 victims been armed, there might not have been the same number of casualties. Just speculating.

If he'd been armed with an assault rifle, as we're the Paris terrorists, my guess would be he'd have killed all three if he had the element of surprise, as did the Paris attackers.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, I guess we'll have to disagree. I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that.

"I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that."

I can understand your feelings but therein lies a classic difference between a conservative and a liberal.

If a conservative doesn't want a gun, he simply doesn't buy one.

If a liberal doesn't want a gun, he doesn't want anybody to buy one.

Cheers

[jacksam]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Donald Trump has been on a special course.

Nobody could be so stupid naturally!

If I was from USA I would be embarrassed that this man is actually running, and at various times leading opponents. Only in America

[sirineou]

<snip messed up quotes>

Yes I read it. I admit by asking if security staff were armed didn't get my point across which was that if the security followed the rules then maybe there wouldn't have been casualties.

I'd also argue that these are weapons trained personnel who may have erred in their duties. I could see untrained civilians causing even greater carnage if involved in a terrorist attack simply by panicking and firing erratically, something a terrorist has no need to consider.

In Fort Hood, Major Hassan walked in to a National Guard unit being processed for deployment to Iraq, he sat down for a moment then stood up, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and began firing. Three unarmed soldiers charged him and he murdered two of them wounding the third. I daresay if one of those three had been armed, Major Hassan would not have completed his murderous mission.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes before local police arrived to take him down.

The NAVSEA shootings took a longer period of time to conclude as the shooter hid in a maze of buildings until found and killed by local police, NCIS and base security people. Aaron Alexis eventually murdered 11 people, three of them women.

I daresay that had any of the 11 victims been armed, there might not have been the same number of casualties. Just speculating.

If he'd been armed with an assault rifle, as we're the Paris terrorists, my guess would be he'd have killed all three if he had the element of surprise, as did the Paris attackers.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, I guess we'll have to disagree. I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that.

"I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that."

I can understand your feelings but therein lies a classic difference between a conservative and a liberal.

If a conservative doesn't want a gun, he simply doesn't buy one.

If a liberal doesn't want a gun, he doesn't want anybody to buy one.

Cheers

If a conservative does not want an idiot to have a gun, what does a conservative do?

[edwinchester]

<snip messed up quotes>

Yes I read it. I admit by asking if security staff were armed didn't get my point across which was that if the security followed the rules then maybe there wouldn't have been casualties.

I'd also argue that these are weapons trained personnel who may have erred in their duties. I could see untrained civilians causing even greater carnage if involved in a terrorist attack simply by panicking and firing erratically, something a terrorist has no need to consider.

In Fort Hood, Major Hassan walked in to a National Guard unit being processed for deployment to Iraq, he sat down for a moment then stood up, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and began firing. Three unarmed soldiers charged him and he murdered two of them wounding the third. I daresay if one of those three had been armed, Major Hassan would not have completed his murderous mission.

The incident lasted about 10 minutes before local police arrived to take him down.

The NAVSEA shootings took a longer period of time to conclude as the shooter hid in a maze of buildings until found and killed by local police, NCIS and base security people. Aaron Alexis eventually murdered 11 people, three of them women.

I daresay that had any of the 11 victims been armed, there might not have been the same number of casualties. Just speculating.

If he'd been armed with an assault rifle, as we're the Paris terrorists, my guess would be he'd have killed all three if he had the element of surprise, as did the Paris attackers.

Anyway, to get back to the OP, I guess we'll have to disagree. I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that.

"I don't believe in civilians being armed, simple as that."

I can understand your feelings but therein lies a classic difference between a conservative and a liberal.

If a conservative doesn't want a gun, he simply doesn't buy one.

If a liberal doesn't want a gun, he doesn't want anybody to buy one.

Cheers

Not at all. I am neither a liberal or conservative. I respect people's right to own a gun. I enjoyed shooting a rifle and handguns in my youth whilst at college. I just believe civilians shouldn't carry arms in public.

My home country is the UK. It's death by firearms rate is about 40 times less than that of the US. Which country has the highest gun ownership?

[chuckd]

I just see this Thread, I cant believe this.

Incredible and very scary that a lunatic like him could become president of the most powerful country in the world

if everyone had guns, would it not also mean that every radical extremist , would have guns?

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

yes the EIGHT had guns, if we left it up to you, Thousands will have guns

I guess you must own stock in the bulletproof vest industry

Now what could possibly have given you the idea that I believe everybody should be armed? I never made such a claim and, as a matter of fact, have rather strong feelings that certain classes of people should never have access to a firearm.

For instance I don't believe any secular progressive liberal should be armed. As dangerous as their politically correct ideas have become, I dread the thought of any of them being armed with any weapon larger than the standard hair brush.

I feel only those with the mental capacity to handle the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm should have one. That's most conservatives, a.k.a "right wing wackos" on this forum.

In response, I have no investment in the gun industry or gun related industries. I don't even own a gun and I live on the edge of the jungle in Isaan.

I kill the cobras with a garden hoe.

Peace.

[sirineou]

I just see this Thread, I cant believe this.

Incredible and very scary that a lunatic like him could become president of the most powerful country in the world

if everyone had guns, would it not also mean that every radical extremist , would have guns?

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

yes the EIGHT had guns, if we left it up to you, Thousands will have guns

I guess you must own stock in the bulletproof vest industry

Now what could possibly have given you the idea that I believe everybody should be armed? I never made such a claim and, as a matter of fact, have rather strong feelings that certain classes of people should never have access to a firearm.

For instance I don't believe any secular progressive liberal should be armed. As dangerous as their politically correct ideas have become, I dread the thought of any of them being armed with any weapon larger than the standard hair brush.

I feel only those with the mental capacity to handle the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm should have one. That's most conservatives, a.k.a "right wing wackos" on this forum.

In response, I have no investment in the gun industry or gun related industries. I don't even own a gun and I live on the edge of the jungle in Isaan.

I kill the cobras with a garden hoe.

Peace.

"I feel only those with the mental capacity to handle the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm should have one. That's most conservatives, a.k.a "right wing wackos" on this forum."

Yet you oppose background checks, and the elimination of the Gun show exemption

Edited November 15, 2015 by sirineou

[sirineou]

You do realize that not even policemen carry guns in some European countries (UK for example). The mentality is totally different.

Very foolish indeed...

had to laugh.

What do they use when the baddies draw their weapons and say..."Badges"? "We don't like your stinking badges"? bam bam.

do they throw billie clubs back?

You may think it's foolish, but that is because you live in fear and have backwards thinking.

Just look at the murder rates & death by guns in Europe and compare to those the good ol' US..

And we do not have to lock up most of our young men or have the highest incarceration rates in the 'civilised' world.

Empirical evidence trumps your fear every day of the week..

While it may appear to be foolish it actually works very well, please stop trying to imagine that you have the answers you clearly do not.

War on Terror? hows is that working out?

Capitol punishment? how's that working out for you guys?

Jog on trying to impose your madness in Europe.. it's not happening fella.

You may be leaping beyond the realm of reality with this statement...

"Jog on trying to impose your madness in Europe.. it's not happening fella."

I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership.

What I see on these endless threads are quite a few Europeans trying to tell the US what we should do about our own self protection.

In short, the huge majority of Americans pay no attention to the liberals of Europe and, to be frank about it, couldn't care less what you folks do about your own security.

Count me in on that last group.

"I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership."

This thread is about an American telling the Europeans what to do about their safety as it relates to gun ownership

Read the title and OP

[chuckd]

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

yes the EIGHT had guns, if we left it up to you, Thousands will have guns

I guess you must own stock in the bulletproof vest industry

Now what could possibly have given you the idea that I believe everybody should be armed? I never made such a claim and, as a matter of fact, have rather strong feelings that certain classes of people should never have access to a firearm.

For instance I don't believe any secular progressive liberal should be armed. As dangerous as their politically correct ideas have become, I dread the thought of any of them being armed with any weapon larger than the standard hair brush.

I feel only those with the mental capacity to handle the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm should have one. That's most conservatives, a.k.a "right wing wackos" on this forum.

In response, I have no investment in the gun industry or gun related industries. I don't even own a gun and I live on the edge of the jungle in Isaan.

I kill the cobras with a garden hoe.

Peace.

"I feel only those with the mental capacity to handle the responsibility that comes with owning a firearm should have one. That's most conservatives, a.k.a "right wing wackos" on this forum."

Yet you oppose background checks, and the elimination of the Gun show exemption

"Yet you oppose background checks, and the elimination of the Gun show exemption "

Nope. Never made that claim either. You must have mistaken me for somebody else.

[Thorgal]

I just see this Thread, I cant believe this.

Incredible and very scary that a lunatic like him could become president of the most powerful country in the world

if everyone had guns, would it not also mean that every radical extremist , would have guns?

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

Those eight terrorists had previous combat experience from Syria.

They received training from western elite force in guerrilla warfare and military tactics. Directly or inderectly...

I've never heard any western leader proposing to the Syrian civil population to arm themselves against the same radical Islamists.

None of those 8 terrorists was ever familiar with Paris. The targets have been given to them. The Syrians were in Greece a month ago, and they were planned for the game France-Germany. They had no weapons, only a suicide bomb belt.

You can't stop those terrorists carrying only bomb belts even with the silly proposal of Trump.

They will unfortunately adapt their tactics.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Thorgal

[chuckd]

<snip>

You may be leaping beyond the realm of reality with this statement...

"Jog on trying to impose your madness in Europe.. it's not happening fella."

I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership.

What I see on these endless threads are quite a few Europeans trying to tell the US what we should do about our own self protection.

In short, the huge majority of Americans pay no attention to the liberals of Europe and, to be frank about it, couldn't care less what you folks do about your own security.

Count me in on that last group.

"I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership."

This thread is about an American telling the Europeans what to do about their safety as it relates to gun ownership

Read the title and OP

From the OP:

BEAUMONT, Texas (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump says the terror attacks in Paris would have been "a much, much different situation" had the victims been armed with guns.

I didn't hear him tell the French or Europeans what to do about their gun ownership.

He simply pointed out the outcome might have been different if some of the unarmed citizens gunned down (paraphrased) had been armed with their own self protective device (guns).

I find that a perfectly reasonable assumption.

[brewsterbudgen]

Why do people take idiots like Trump seriously?

[chuckd]

I just see this Thread, I cant believe this.

Incredible and very scary that a lunatic like him could become president of the most powerful country in the world

if everyone had guns, would it not also mean that every radical extremist , would have guns?

The eight radical Islamic extremists did have guns.

The nearly 500 innocent civilians that were either killed or wounded were the unarmed parties in this fire fight.

Worthy of note is the fact the eight Islamic extremists chose not to attack the French gendarmerie S.W.A.T headquarters.or the Legion barracks.

Wonder why.

Those eight terrorists had previous combat experience from Syria.

They received training from western elite force in guerrilla warfare and military tactics. Directly or inderectly...

I've never heard any western leader proposing to the Syrian civil population to arm themselves against the same radical Islamists.

None of those 8 terrorists was ever familiar with Paris. The targets have been given to them. The Syrians were in Greece a month ago, and they were planned for the game France-Germany. They had no weapons, only a suicide bomb belt.

You can't stop those terrorists carrying only bomb belts even with the silly proposal of Trump.

They will unfortunately adapt their tactics.

1. "Those eight terrorists had previous combat experience from Syria."

"They received training from western elite force in guerrilla warfare and military tactics. Directly or inderectly.. (sic)

Where did you get this information? Only two of them have even been publicly identified. One from Syria and one French citizen born and raised in a small town near Paris.

2. "None of those 8 terrorists was ever familiar with Paris. The targets have been given to them. The Syrians were in Greece a month ago, and they were planned for the game France-Germany. They had no weapons, only a suicide bomb belt."

One Syrian, one Frenchman and two Belgians are on the suspect list, according to the Guardian and an Australian source. A second Frenchman has not been identified but his identity is known to authorities.

The two Frenchmen and two Belgians very likely had intimate knowledge of Paris.

Of course they had weapons. How else could they shoot all those people in the theater and restaurants?

It's looking like there were only seven of them, and not eight. Either way, they were armed and dangerous.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996120/Paris-attack-what-we-know-about-the-suspects.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/france-vows-merciless-response/story-fn3dxix6-1227609587157

[sirineou]

<snip>

You may be leaping beyond the realm of reality with this statement...

"Jog on trying to impose your madness in Europe.. it's not happening fella."

I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership.

What I see on these endless threads are quite a few Europeans trying to tell the US what we should do about our own self protection.

In short, the huge majority of Americans pay no attention to the liberals of Europe and, to be frank about it, couldn't care less what you folks do about your own security.

Count me in on that last group.

"I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership."

This thread is about an American telling the Europeans what to do about their safety as it relates to gun ownership

Read the title and OP

From the OP:

BEAUMONT, Texas (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump says the terror attacks in Paris would have been "a much, much different situation" had the victims been armed with guns.

I didn't hear him tell the French or Europeans what to do about their gun ownership.

He simply pointed out the outcome might have been different if some of the unarmed citizens gunned down (paraphrased) had been armed with their own self protective device (guns).

I find that a perfectly reasonable assumption.

are you serious?

[sirineou]

By the way Trump using this tragic event for political gain is to say the least a reflection on his character

[chuckd]

<snip>

You may be leaping beyond the realm of reality with this statement...

"Jog on trying to impose your madness in Europe.. it's not happening fella."

I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership.

What I see on these endless threads are quite a few Europeans trying to tell the US what we should do about our own self protection.

In short, the huge majority of Americans pay no attention to the liberals of Europe and, to be frank about it, couldn't care less what you folks do about your own security.

Count me in on that last group.

"I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership."

This thread is about an American telling the Europeans what to do about their safety as it relates to gun ownership

Read the title and OP

From the OP:

BEAUMONT, Texas (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump says the terror attacks in Paris would have been "a much, much different situation" had the victims been armed with guns.

I didn't hear him tell the French or Europeans what to do about their gun ownership.

He simply pointed out the outcome might have been different if some of the unarmed citizens gunned down (paraphrased) had been armed with their own self protective device (guns).

I find that a perfectly reasonable assumption.

are you serious?

Yuuup!

Going to bed soon so no more brilliant repartee from me. I'll really be sharp after a good night's sleep.

Tune in tomorrow.

[sirineou]

"I don't see any Americans trying to tell the Europeans what to do about their own safety as it relates to gun ownership."

This thread is about an American telling the Europeans what to do about their safety as it relates to gun ownership

Read the title and OP

From the OP:

BEAUMONT, Texas (AP) — Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump says the terror attacks in Paris would have been "a much, much different situation" had the victims been armed with guns.

I didn't hear him tell the French or Europeans what to do about their gun ownership.

He simply pointed out the outcome might have been different if some of the unarmed citizens gunned down (paraphrased) had been armed with their own self protective device (guns).

I find that a perfectly reasonable assumption.

are you serious?

Yuuup!

Going to bed soon so no more brilliant repartee from me. I'll really be sharp after a good night's sleep.

Tune in tomorrow.

Yes if you get more sleep it would be good for you

I am not telling you what to do in respect to sleep, only what I think you should do with respect to sleep

Good night

[nithisa78]

Amazing. If more untrained civilians had weapons, there would have been more innocent death.

He isn't a man whose ever been in any firefight.

The statement was made to serve his purpose not the purpose of any people.

[nithisa78]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Donald Trump has been on a special course.

Nobody could be so stupid naturally!

If I was from USA I would be embarrassed that this man is actually running, and at various times leading opponents. Only in America

Only in anyplace that people are so easy to be misinformed. Like you, without any clue.

You are not from the USA, thank God. Already enough screwballs there.

You Sir have no concept of a free country. Your heart and head are locked down.

If I get hit with another suspension, so be it.

CAP 4x's (WIA) USA ret

[JHolmesJr]

Why do people take idiots like Trump seriously?

The people he's running against are equally clueless and/or shifty anyway.

At least he'll provide some uhhh lighter moments.

Edited November 15, 2015 by JHolmesJr

[wabothai]

Why do people take idiots like Trump seriously?

He is the familiar and popular "kick ass" kind of a guy, just what the world does not need but some Americans think they need.

Send him to Mexico.

[sirineou]

Why do people take idiots like Trump seriously?

The people he's running against are equally clueless and/or shifty anyway.

At least he'll provide some uhhh lighter moments.

I don't think she is stupid, and i dont think they are stupid

I know these people and one thing they are not is stupid

there is something else going on here other than what it appears, not sure what it is, I have my suspicions

but I cant believe these people are so smart in other things and so stupid in this.

I know it might sound paranoid, but even paranoids have real enemies.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

An idiot with money.Goes to show you cant have it all...

[tomacht8]

Nice idea if in this case all were armed.
But trump would fail to show on a world map countries such as Thailand, Bangladesh or North Korea.

Edited November 15, 2015 by tomacht8

[off road pat]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Donald Trump has been on a special course.

Nobody could be so stupid naturally!

Yeah, but he practices a lot to improve ....he must have a masters degree by now....! in stupidity

And to think some people would vote for him,....frightens me more !

By the way, there must be more people ready to vote for him than there are radical Muslims....

Best regards.

[mickyboy]

I wonder how many more deaths there would have been from 'friendly fire' had there been panicked untrained civilians firing at anything that moved?

that is the $64000 ? only god knows

Edited November 15, 2015 by mickyboy

[mickyboy]

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Donald Trump has been on a special course.

Nobody could be so stupid naturally!

If I was from USA I would be embarrassed that this man is actually running, and at various times leading opponents. Only in America

look who been before to show you they are nutters looking after the USA