Australia's Channel Seven investigates the sex industry in Thailand

[micmichd]

destiny.jpg

Good luck mate. Dig deep.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/the-sparky-helping-afp-track-down-australian-paedophiles-in-thailand-20150930-gjy17q.html

https://www.google.co.th/search?q=North+Queensland,+Tony+Kirwan&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCcQsARqFQoTCJGwsI3ek8kCFUEZjgodoH0D9g&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=J68hJP5jFMbtLM%3A

So what?

All I see is a man with 3 children.

Does it make you a pedophile if you like kids?

[Guy360]

So what? They are still after Roman Polanski for a crime like this and that was over 30 years ago.

If you truly know of this crime taking place then you should report it. Or is this time frame just your rationalization for doing nothing? If this scumbag did it once, and got away with it, he is still probably doing that. So what are you going to do to prevent such things besides talk here and call me the fool?

Ahh yes, Good old Roman Polanski and you forgot to mention his cohort in crime, Woody Allen. I heard they are going to do a joint venture in a new film CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD GRADE.

It will be widely distributed by Al Jazeera into most Muslim nations as well as certain Catholic Priest retirement homes.

[GAZZPA]

Why was it not a Thai TV station (instead of a foreign one)?

Because it is a Christian-based organization (as opposed to Buddhist based), and their operations are based out of Australia, New Zealand, and the US and set up as a US non-profit, and as such it gets the attention of the Western news media who love to spin a good yarn about how the West, especially Western Christians are saving the world from the 'godless masses'. I'm thinking it's that simple. Another group out saving the heathen Asian masses, concentrating on the poorest of the poor, and bringing them into the Christian fold to be 'saved' in the name of Jesus Christ Almighty, Amen.

Of course, I could be wrong. I just read their web-based talking points. Perhaps they allow their rescued girls who they put up in their rescue homes to embrace and practice their native religions, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and Animism, which were the religions of the vast majority of these girls - but for some reason I doubt that is the reality of the situation. I did note that they helped establish pig farming and fish farming to assist poor villagers in establishing a income cycle, and once the project pays off, the villagers repay Destiny Rescue the original seed money. Unfortunately, farming animals for slaughter is contrary to the Buddhist Nobel Eightfold Path, specifically right livelihood which goes counter to the first precept of refraining from killing. Pig farming would go over like a lead balloon with Muslims, and animal farming from slaughter might also go over like a lead balloon with many Buddhist - my wife and I refuse to kill what would be considered to be farm animals. But they also had an agriculture program, but that's pretty dependent on water which seems to be in increasingly short supply, but thumbs up for their effort even though they may be a little short-sighted concerning village culture and the importance of indigenous religion. But don't get me wrong: I'm a Buddhist from a Christian background, and in many ways I still identify myself as a Christian, but I don't fit into the main-stream concept of Christianity, and I don't proselytize. I'm more of a throwback to 100 AD. Let just say that my brethren who didn't get their marching orders from Constantine and the Nicene Council until the 4th century AD don't necessarily see eye-to-eye with my view of Christianity, although I can accept virtually their entire cosmology, including what main-stream Christians would consider to be 'fringe', 'heretical' groups like the Latter Day Saints (Mormons). I understand everyone else's viewpoint, although it doesn't seem to go the other way around - Valentinus heretic that I am, Lol. But that's another story, although I understand Valentinus' problems with crystal clarity.

Personally, I'd prefer to see an organization such as this doing the same good work, but sponsored by a diverse group with a broad spectrum of religious ideals, even including secular members with a common goal - to get underaged girls and boys out of the sex trafficking industry, and bust up the groups promoting this aberration. A group of individuals with a broad understanding of local cultural and religious affiliations are more likely to be able to deal with the issue of the poorest of the poor, instead of inculcating them into a foreign religion with promise of salvation, redemption, and a better physical life (i.e., money) which may or may not manifest itself in reality.

Regarding supporting the education and job seeking efforts of these 'rescued children', I'd really like to see a very accurate breakdown on the number of 'rescued' children who are sent through vocation schools, and what types of good paying jobs that these kids are graduating into? Waitressing? Cooking? Sewing? Haircutting? Good paying? Really? You think so? In Thailand those jobs will make a Thai worker 8K to 10K THB a month - maybe. Then you wonder why women (not-traffiked adolescents, but sound minded adults) choose to go into a business such a karaoke, massage, bar-girls, go-go, or prostitution where the payoff is multiples of what they can make cutting hair 12 hours a day 6 days a week. How many kids are being funneled into these educational operations and what jobs are waiting for them on the other side. I'd be interested to know.

One thing I do know: Thais that take normal, run-of-the-mill jobs in many cases have a different moral code than those who don't, and that moral code is instilled though Buddhism - it's 'Sila', or Buddhist morality. I only speak for Thailand. It wasn't instill though a Christian upbringing and puritanical obeisance to a threatening deity that loves you unconditionally one minute, and then is threatening to toss you into a lake of fire and eternal torment. Buddhism is so much simpler.

Another question. How much difference is their between the amount of money needed to send a child to a non-profit sponsored school as opposed to sending these kids to government sponsored schools that offer the same training. I know for a fact that to learn haircutting (barber) in Isaan cost approximately 3000 THB about 5 years ago, and the salon hairstylist program was slightly more expensive, let's say 5000THB, but not so expensive as to make it beyond the reach of the average Thai person who wished to learn a trade. From their own website, one of the Destiny "Projects" is to send 5 girls to salon, hairdressing, beauty school in Cambodia. Because I'm in Thailand, I'm going to keep the costs in Thai baht for comparison. Total cost to send 5 girls is $3,465 which is approximately 121,275 THB or about 24,000 THB per student to learn salon training. That's about 5x what a government school charges. Does that 24,000 THB assist the graduate in obtaining a average paying job, or does it set them up in their own business?

Another comparison. I sent my Thai son to a private vocational school to learn computer electronics. His tuition per year was 40,000 THB. That was to learn computer electronics, not hairdressing. I'm just giving the numbers and the skill-level involved, but draw your own conclusions.

I'm just going to end it like this. Most non-profits that I've seen operating in virtually anywhere in the world are money making machines. I could establish a non-profit where virtually all the funds go completely into designated projects. I could run an English language school in rural Thailand by obtaining minimal funds to upgrade existing building structures, and employing volunteer teachers who don't pay a dime to the non-profit in order to teach, unlike some non-profits who literally charge their volunteers very significant sums of money to perform work that supports the mission of their organization, and then say that the money is to offset expenses. I could literally run a school as an adjunct to the government schools, supplementing their curriculum and training their teacher on a shoestring. With what funding? Cost for utilities, expendable office items, hardware including computers (which could be old beaters because as an IT guy I can fix them), a quality laser printer, land-line phone, classroom expendables like markers, and possibly, but not necessarily, books. For the purposes of out-side-of-class tutorial sessions for village kids, I have the experience to create my own curriculum that would seamlessly coincide with their government school curriculum. I could pull this off on a shoestring budget where everyone would be working for free.

In this world there are two ends of the spectrum of non-profits: the non-profits who don't make a profit, but if you look at their financials statements, you see highly paid executives and 'employees' along with inflated costs for services all of which get divided among the members of the non-profit group including perks like first-class air flight to world-wide seminars, lavish organizational meetings in prime vacation areas, expensive leased cars, etc, etc with some of the money actually flowing into whatever tear-jerking 'humanitarian cause' that they were created to address. Yeah, that's the worst of the worse and it happens. Then on the other end of the spectrum are those that operate on a shoestring and utilize the manpower and resources of the people who are dedicated to a specific cause with minimal external funding, often out of their own pockets - volunteering as a labor of love. Then there is everything in-between, but unfortunately many of those falling in-between the ends of the spectrum are skewed toward money-making. So personally - I don't have a lot of trust in non-profit organizations. Not naming names, and none of this is aimed directly at the OP. Just saying. It's an interesting world out there and some people do unscrupulous thing, and some people do amazingly selfless thing. If you are part of a non-profit - only you know in your heart what side of the line you're on.

Interesting read. I have a question for you though.

Most people work for some kind of organisation that is designed to make profits. If they get paid very well for their job then no one will bat an eyelid and on they go.

So, what is wrong with a person working for a "non profit" company that actually makes a difference in the world AND they also make a good living at it? Why do you attach stigma to it? I see no problem with a non profit organisation that is helping women get out of prostitution employing the very best social workers, doctors and small business advisors who of course cost money, I don't mind if they get paid extremely well. What is the problem with that?

Also, as I assume you know Christianity is all about helping others and how you treat others, indeed the Bible is almost a "how to guide" on living a moral and decent life and caring for others. It doesn't matter what other people think about that, if they agree or disagree with Christianity is irrelevant. It is, at its core a religion based upon doing good.

So, whats the problem if a group of Christians get together, create an organisation to tackle some issue and start helping people? And so what if they talk to the people they are helping about Christ, people have a choice to either listen or not listen, thats up to them.

I do not work for a non profit and I dont mind what religion or belief people chose. I will judge people based upon them and nothing more. I dont believe that every Chrsitian has a hidden agenda, I am happy for them to do whatever they like and if they help people then I say fair play to them and keep up the good work.

[hawker9000]

The problem is with oily journalists who lump things together that confuse readers, muddy the issues, and ultimately cause misallocation of resources (or try to). Child exploitation and prostitution aren't the same thing, and it's deliberately misleading to create a narrative that intertwines them. But EVERYBODY's against child exploitation, not so prostitution, so you can't enlist much public outrage against prostitution unless you link it to child exploitation. Similarly, prostitution and human trafficking are not the same thing, but it serves a certain agenda to try & create the impression that they are.

Just a few of the contemporary crimes against the public modern journalism has to answer for and public education doesn't even try to equip citizens to recognize & resist.

[ableguy]

Can he show proof of this or just the blurred face of a 19 year old? Also he may have missed that the Thai brothels where most of the young girls were to be found have nearly all been closed down over the last 2 years. In Udon for example, whole streets of brothels have simply disappeared.

Get real man. Your post is an insult to intelligence .

[digibum]

Why was it not a Thai TV station (instead of a foreign one)?

Because the story is mostly BS and underage girls are very rare among the 'farang bars' in tourist areas. This is sensationalism with little basis in reality from an NGO looking to increase their funding and a news channel looking for a salicious story.

Rainbow 4 NEP is still closed after a raid for underage girls, anyone who thinks it's not common in 'falang' bars is either ignorant of the facts or in denial.

I have zero problem believing it happens. I have a lot of problems believing it happens in the manner in which many do-gooders pretends it happens.

I'm way more inclined to believe that 16 and 17 year old girls make their way to places like Nana, Cowboy, and Pattaya and encounter mamasans who are more than willing to turn a blind eye as long as a girl can fake her age. Chances are they were brought to Bangkok (or Pattaya) by a family member (cousin, sister, etc) already working in the industry who makes the introduction and helps them acquire a fake ID.

What I don't see, in the farang sex industry, is 13, 14, 15 year old girls being snatched away from their families and forced to have sex with half a dozen men a day against their will.

But the later is the story most often painted in the media. It sells. If you're a non-profit, it's the kind of story that gets government grants and sympathetic donors.

[digibum]

Thailand is also very low on the human trafficking scale and if it wants to be considered a leader in the Asean it has seriously has to tackle this point.

Actually, I think that is untrue. Thailand is very low on the human trafficking for the purposes of prostitution scale but their record for other human trafficking is very different.

Someone a few posts down from your post makes an excellent point that prostitution and human trafficking are often lumped together but they are not the same thing. I think that may be where your statement goes astray.

[digibum]

Also, as I assume you know Christianity is all about helping others and how you treat others, indeed the Bible is almost a "how to guide" on living a moral and decent life and caring for others. It doesn't matter what other people think about that, if they agree or disagree with Christianity is irrelevant. It is, at its core a religion based upon doing good.

So, whats the problem if a group of Christians get together, create an organisation to tackle some issue and start helping people? And so what if they talk to the people they are helping about Christ, people have a choice to either listen or not listen, thats up to them.

I do not work for a non profit and I dont mind what religion or belief people chose. I will judge people based upon them and nothing more. I dont believe that every Chrsitian has a hidden agenda, I am happy for them to do whatever they like and if they help people then I say fair play to them and keep up the good work.

The problem with Christian groups is that too many of them confuse evangelism with aid. This ulterior motive conversion stuff is, IMHO, right up there with cult like brainwashing. You find poor desperate people and you basically offer them a lifeline that is tied to a constant barrage of Christianity.

As condo said, if one were really trying to have the greatest impact on child prostitution, wouldn't they make more headway respecting the local religions and culture rather than trying to change it?

As far as your statements about whether people have the right to listen or not, no they don't. Not if you're holding the flashlight pointing the way out of the darkness they don't.

If you were starving and I hold out a sandwich but then say, "Yeah, but before we eat first let me tell you the good news about Christ", do you really have a choice? You can stick around and listen or you can leave and starve.

Obviously, *most* Christian organizations aren't that crass about it but to even pretend that these people have anything close to a choice in regards to whether or not they listen is intellectually dishonest.

I will say, just so there's no confusion, that like you, I don't believe most Christians have a hidden agenda either. However, I think a lot of the Christians that relocate to third-world and developing countries do.

Really, you have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of promoting yourself as a "Christian Organization" or "Christian Non-Profit" if the primary goal of your organization or non-profit is saving underage children from prostitution in a Buddhist country? Isn't that goal noble enough?

Aren't there hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people who volunteer to do good things and just also happen to be Christians? Why can the founder's faith not be separated from the mission? Is s/he only doing this because he's trying to score brownie points with God or are they actually a good person?

Are they saying that if I'm a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Jew that I cannot also try to make a positive impact on the world via their organization or am I excluded because of my faith?

And for all your talk about what Christianity is about, I have a hard time believing Christ himself would have turned away help because they were of the wrong faith. The Bible (at least the New Testament) is nearly bursting with lessons about good deeds being more important than acts of religion.

[brewsterbudgen]

The good news is that Rainbow 4 has re-opened.

[TigerandDog]

There are issues here - and they are no surprise to those of us who know Thailand well.....however one suspects this particular program has to come under the heading of "salacious sensationalism" - is the primary aim of the program is ratings - not welfare?

i haen't seen this particular program yet, but If this is the bunch I've seen televised before I have to say I find the attitudes of some of those guys almost as distasteful as the people they are trying to expose.

The last program on this topic in Oz was by A Current Affair on Channel 9, and boy did they have their facts wrong, and storylines totally f'd up. I'm sure this will be no different. I'm an aussie, and I NEVER took any notice of these programs when i lived in Oz because they had zero cred with me. Far too much BS. Agree with other posters, all about sensationalism and grabbing a headline and trying to win ratings.

[fang37]

#250

What else would you expect?

Ratings=popularity=demand for advertising=$$$=more $$$ for staff.

[harada]

I can recall being in Pattaya in the 1980's when an Aussie film crew were doing a program called the Ugly Australians, they were not interested in hearing the truth about why the families of these girls needed to send them to work in bars or who was really behind running the vice in Pattaya, it was'nt sensational enough and I'm sure that 30 years later this one will be no different.

[DavidBonnie]

Find it surprising that this goes on in 'normal' go-go bars or hooker bars?

I guess you have to be looking for it but I have never seen very young girls or 'trafficked' girls here?

[mihalis]

have they looked in they own back garden as well.it is just as bad in any city.sydney has king cross.thailand has many cities as well

Seems to be the way, Aussies not looking at there own backyard... Violence, slaves, under age prostitution, fat old man, raping young kids...