French Islamic community fears backlash following Paris attacks

[jacky54]

They did not, ISLAM did, Muslims are just as much victims of this evil ideology as those murdered by it.

[nev]

All peaceful Muslims are part of the problem for staying quite and letting the radical Muslim's take over and spread, so som nun na they can be scared like the rest of us peace loving humans.

[vadimbz]

Im curious to know why you think the French Islamic community slaughtered 130 people.

Because so far identified attackers were either French citizens, or "refugees"? Because their convictions are universally shared by said community? Because mosques all around France are hosting major celebrations as we speak? Because people in Muslim-populated areas are dancing on the streets right now, just as they did after Charlie Hebdo attack?

Edited November 16, 2015 by vadimbz

[Thai at Heart]

Those police should be investigating the crime instead.

They are, if the Muslim communities had reported to the authorities that there were unusual activities occurring or that suspicious strangers had appeared in their communities, then perhaps the perpertrators of these terrorist crimes would have been apprehended before their acts of barbarism. BUT THEY DID NOT and they are STILL NOT reporting to the authorities that there is support for extremists within theit communities. So, by staying mute, they are passively condoning the actions of the extremists, so when they are stopped and searched they complain? B*ll*cks. The muslim communities of the west can eliminate the growing cancer from within their midst, by being pro-active and telling the authorities where the cancer is growing so that it can be eliminated. Do they? Probably not. All this b*ll*cks on Twatter/Farcebook etc about these people not representing the majority is talk. not action. Give names/places to the relevant authorities, remove the cancer, purge yourselves of your disease, but don't whine if your community keeps quiet and ALL members of the community are looked upon as collaborators.

I somehow doubt that many of the local Muslim population were in the know. The Belgian community is another issue.

[Opl]

I live n a muslim country. I love it, its open, secular, can go to church if i want (i dont want to) can drink anything i want, have pork sandwiches, can go to the pub for my suday morning bacon and eggs.

Hope that i dont get kicked out of the country for not integrating to the muslim way. Seems they are more tolerant than some so called enlightened westerners.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Opl

[Linky]

They did not, ISLAM did, Muslims are just as much victims of this evil ideology as those murdered by it.

No, psychos did this and try to use islam as an excuse. Anyone that knows about islam knows what they do has nothing to do with islam.

[jacky54]

Hint, celebrating deaths does not make a person guilty of murder.

Can you provide links to show the celebrations in mosques all over france?

Can you provide one of thousands of French Muslims protesting on the streets? You might get a few lying words released by Imams some not in my name postings on fb but that's about it. No it was not done in the name of French Muslims, or anyone else, it was done in the name of Islam and it's warlord Phrophet, himself responsible for 65 armed conflicts. When will people get it into their heads, the problem is not Muslims, the problem is and always will be ISLAM, what it says, what it stands for and how it influences it's followers.

[jacky54]

They did not, ISLAM did, Muslims are just as much victims of this evil ideology as those murdered by it.

No, psychos did this and try to use islam as an excuse. Anyone that knows about islam knows what they do has nothing to do with islam.

Nothing to do with Islam is it, well maybe you think it was people other than Muslims crying god is great in Arabic then before the slaughter, I mean that should give a bit of a clue. The fact that the Koran contains 109 verses calling for violence and the killing of unbelievers and Jihad, that will have nothing to do with Islam either? Or that the Prophet who carried out 65 armed raids and wars in his lifetime to spread his made up ideology, nothing to do with Islam either. Where do all these jihadists get their ideas from then, the readers digest maybe?

I recall when Lee Rigby was butchered in London, again cries to Allah by the murdering Muslim who was filmed on the street with the bloody knife stating the Koran made him do it, and giving the verse as well. Cameron went on TV and said what you did, it had nothing to do with Islam, pathetic and delusional. Even he's not saying that this time though is he.

Edited November 16, 2015 by jacky54

[nontabury]

I live n a muslim country. I love it, its open, secular, can go to church if i want (i dont want to) can drink anything i want, have pork sandwiches, can go to the pub for my suday morning bacon and eggs.

Hope that i dont get kicked out of the country for not integrating to the muslim way. Seems they are more tolerant than some so called enlightened westerners.

So your telling us that their are no Muslim fanatics in Malaysia?

[nontabury]

A good start would be to remove all those in the Calais Jungle.

I have tried some thought experiments as to how this could be done, given dictatorial powers, or within existing laws.

I have not come up with a satisfactory solution.

Any Ideas please ?

Pressure your government to stop causing conflict in the Middle East, then there won't be refugees....I am talking a century's worth of interference, not the recent air strikes.

Good point, but what about all those other areas in the world, where Muslims are causing trouble. it's not just about Muslim Arabs they are causing problems everywhere.

[Wilsonandson]

No, its not muslims its animals who murdered those poor people. Leave muslims alone.

[jacky54]

No, its not muslims its animals who murdered those poor people. Leave muslims alone.

i'm sure there are many who would like Muslims to leave US alone, they were animals, that happened to be dedicated and serious Muslims who loved Allah and who took the prophet for their example.

[Linky]

I live n a muslim country. I love it, its open, secular, can go to church if i want (i dont want to) can drink anything i want, have pork sandwiches, can go to the pub for my suday morning bacon and eggs.

Hope that i dont get kicked out of the country for not integrating to the muslim way. Seems they are more tolerant than some so called enlightened westerners.

So your telling us that their are no Muslim fanatics in Malaysia?

No, of course there are, just as there are extremist of any persuasion in any country. The US seems to have its fair share of killings that are not muslim related. In malaysia i feel a lot more safe than i have in any other country. Muslim extremism is a very rare thing in malaysia.

[Linky]

They did not, ISLAM did, Muslims are just as much victims of this evil ideology as those murdered by it.

No, psychos did this and try to use islam as an excuse. Anyone that knows about islam knows what they do has nothing to do with islam.

Nothing to do with Islam is it, well maybe you think it was people other than Muslims crying god is great in Arabic then before the slaughter, I mean that should give a bit of a clue. The fact that the Koran contains 109 verses calling for violence and the killing of unbelievers and Jihad, that will have nothing to do with Islam either? Or that the Prophet who carried out 65 armed raids and wars in his lifetime to spread his made up ideology, nothing to do with Islam either. Where do all these jihadists get their ideas from then, the readers digest maybe?

I recall when Lee Rigby was butchered in London, again cries to Allah by the murdering Muslim who was filmed on the street with the bloody knife stating the Koran made him do it, and giving the verse as well. Cameron went on TV and said what you did, it had nothing to do with Islam, pathetic and delusional. Even he's not saying that this time though is he.

You are difficult to understand. You say it is nothing to do with muslims in one post then in this post you blame it on muslims.

What you do not understand is that these people are not following islam, they go against the teachings of islam. You can quote any verses you like, there are also quite a few barbaric verses in the bible. That means nothing. Its the interpretation of the koran, same as its the interpretation of the bible.

If christians are killing people in the name of the bible, which has been done, i would not consider the religion to be the issue, rather the nutters who use it wrongly to justify their radicalist attitude.

The 2nd highest tenet of the koran is not to murder, any muslim who commits murder does not get their after death 'rewards' that 2nd highest tenet is all encompassing and nothing else in the koran can go against it.

If you were taught the koran you would know that.

[Linky]

Hint, celebrating deaths does not make a person guilty of murder.

Can you provide links to show the celebrations in mosques all over france?

Can you provide one of thousands of French Muslims protesting on the streets? You might get a few lying words released by Imams some not in my name postings on fb but that's about it. No it was not done in the name of French Muslims, or anyone else, it was done in the name of Islam and it's warlord Phrophet, himself responsible for 65 armed conflicts. When will people get it into their heads, the problem is not Muslims, the problem is and always will be ISLAM, what it says, what it stands for and how it influences it's followers.

Funny, if no one says anything you think the silence says it all. When they do condemn it they must be lying. The dust hasnt even settled on this incident yet.

I dont see anyone out in the streets after Beirut and Kenya attacks either. I dont see the world outpouring of sympathy and solidarity after Beirut and Kenya either. I didnt see any buildings lit up with the Lebanon or Kenya flags.

I dont blame all Americans because of the actions of the KKK.

People have their prejudices and no amount of facts and truth will change it.

[cdnvic]

Starting to removed the more bigoted posts and members again. Thaivisa has a very diverse userbase and we do not put up with attacks on any of them. There are a lot of extreme unsubstantiated claims being thrown around here. Enough is enough. If you want to make accusations, back it up with a credible source. Inflaming an already tense situation with rumours and stuff you made up to suit your particular agenda isn't helping anyone.

[arjunadawn]

It is imperative that the French government (and Western governments in general) protect their Muslim citizens and residents against the type of hatred that some members here express. The hatred is what ISIS wants. ISIS wants division, ISIS wants Muslims in Europe to feel ostracised and to experience hatred against them, so that those Muslims become disgruntled and turn to ISIS.

All the rednecks that fall for the propaganda and spill bile and actual violence against Muslims are playing into ISIS's hands. Thanks, rednecks, you are assisting ISIS, which is treasonous.

The answer your asertation that there is hatred expressed towards the Moslem communities lies within the Moslem communities themselves. If they stay passive and do not report unusual/extremist behavour/attitudes then they are colluding passively to the growth of the cancer within the Moslem world. It is probably not HATRED as you liberal PC people say, but a fearful reaction to a possible infectious desease (terrorism). I personally do not HATE any particular Moslem, but I cannot trust them anymore, and wish they would remove themselves from my society so that I need not have to be constantly aware of my travelling companions and the people in my environment. In the UK we had a problem/war with the IRA in various forms for a long time. The general public developed an awareness for unusual behavior and were aware of the possibility of carnage within their midst. I personally was very wary of anyone with Irish connections, paranoia?, maybe, survival instinct , certainly. You have Ebola, your are isolated, as are all those that you came into contact with. You have Muslim terrorists, you are isolated, until it is clear that you are not infected. So if Moslems take offence, yet again, at the reaction of the populace in the society , that they choose to live, that they are in fact endangering by their passivety, tough shit. Be very thankful that the example of the last occupiers of Europe made on communities that they thought harboured freedom fighters is not visited upon the Moslem communities.

It is imperative that government protect its citizens, not its muslim citizens preferentially or even proactively. This mantra has already yielded immunity and accommodation beyond that afforded to any other sub culture. The police escalation of support and protection should be commensurate with the threat, its resources devoted primarily to addressing the threat. Not a protected status, an equal status.

I think you know me, SS, I don't agree with much of what you say but you are mostly correct in this above post. Certain posturing that pushes away muslims instead of confronting them with strength, law, and continued hope they will assimilate, will push them further away from the State. The entire formula already exists and this is what DAESH is actually doing, its attack was only the instrument- the goal is the massive muslim population. Yes, the very intuitive, obvious policy responses will absolutely play into IS' hands. The problem is, there are no good alternatives.

The umma of the islamic world must be forced to confront the issue of their generation. I do not wish this upon all the numerous law abiding muslims who just want the same as we all do, but history places them at a crossroads, and silence is endorsement at this point. It is my strongly held conviction that non assimilated islamic enclaves have been a source of insurgency in numerous countries through history and this is overwhelmingly reflected in the texts. Indeed, the entire concept of hijra/migration/jihad spells out very specifically the acceptable behaviors, etc., and to what extend you may "render under cesar" what is the culture you live in. The choice is made clear to them: return to a sharia state, dar al islam, or make the place you are no longer dar al harb, but dar al islam. This is why these communities throughout history have been so rich in jihad nutrients.

My mind game today was quite sad. I imagined all the numerous muslims I have known who have been kind, warm, and generous to me- and there have been many- and imagined the horrible predicament all of these people are in. Yet, if you will be in the modern world and make islam conform to modernity, then you must act. If you live in the modern world and insist it comply with islam, you must be identified. Soon, with the cancer of the place they left now infecting our cultures these horrors will escalate and circumstances will choose which side they are on for them- by omission. Muslims must act and declare the future of the past, otherwise others will choose what their position is by default. Awful, but true. Read this. Much is missing as to why the reformers have wobbly legs to stand on, but generally the point is made. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11996879/Islams-civil-war-between-medievalists-and-modernisers.html

[arjunadawn]

The problem they are all working for the same result active or not , if we want to live in peace we need to send these folks back.

Your opinion is based on a poll that you organized amongst muslims?

Read the Koran

Actually, just a few of the numerous polls available suggest his observation can easily be based on "a poll."

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/poll-81-of-muslims-around-the-world-support-islamic-state-al-jazeera-arabic-poll/

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/survey-13-percent-of-the-syrian-refugees-in-europe-sympathize-with-the-islamic-state/

[arjunadawn]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

There is a militant ideology wrapped within the theology. The theology, heavily borrowed, needed little development. It effectively sprang up with the prophet's transcription from Gabriel. However, its implementation was observed, chronologies recalled, how the nascent islam became successful, destroyed Medina, destroyed Mecca, and became preeminent in the region. It was this chronology that quickly became the implementing blueprint for proselytizing. This blueprint is highly developed with regard to duties and responsibilities from the bedroom to the battlespace, in islamic lands, after migrating, when islamic forces join you, jihad for women, for me, the best jihad, and an always present bounty for when there were no rapes or villages to plunder, paradise for service. Here, this is the danger of islam, not the faith per se, the implementing sharia and militant code binding not only on believers but all planet earth.

Everyone who is a potential foe is already demonized by scripture, therefore the gradual demonization necessary for a state to muster the will of the people is absent here- and it is a state, irrespective of land mass.

[arjunadawn]

what a strange religion.! to kill people in mass murder of innocent victims, then think you will go to heaven. they say it's a religion of peace, what mean peace for them?

explain to me.

to me that's not war, war has its rules. this is worse than terrorism. this is just acts of desperation.

Its not a strange religion, the religion does not tell people to do that. It is crazies using the excuse of religion.

Those are not real muslims and do not follow islam.

This is why its so difficult to fight- the authorities for what most jihadis do does not have to be tortured from scripture, its often quite apparent.

[johnmell]

Seems to me being a young Muslim in a western country is such a miserable experience with severe limits on having any sort of fun, can inspire a jealous hatred of their

[nidieunimaitre]

The problem they are all working for the same result active or not , if we want to live in peace we need to send these folks back.

Your opinion is based on a poll that you organized amongst muslims?

Read the Koran

Actually, just a few of the numerous polls available suggest his observation can easily be based on "a poll."

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/poll-81-of-muslims-around-the-world-support-islamic-state-al-jazeera-arabic-poll/

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/11/10/survey-13-percent-of-the-syrian-refugees-in-europe-sympathize-with-the-islamic-state/

What we need is a Dusit poll.

Reliable.

Predictable.

In favour of >>> yes you guessed it <<<

[Opl]

Seems to me being a young Muslim in a western country is such a miserable experience with severe limits on having any sort of fun, can inspire a jealous hatred of their

Abdeslam Brahim, one of the suicide bombers who blew himself up in Paris Friday night, was the owner of the coffee shop "The Beguine" in Molenbeek, Belgium -point of trade and consumption of prohibited substances.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Opl

[simon43]

I want to know why a certain group is not loudly demonstrating in the streets against ISIS, burning the ISIS flag and threatening to kill all ISIS members.

I wonder why that group is not condemning ISIS for daring to claim that these attacks were made in the name of Islam, nor why they are not looting and ramsacking the houses of immams who spread hate messages.

Who are that silent group?

The millions of moderate Muslims, who do little or nothing when these type of attacks occur.

Yes, I know there are social media statements of condemnation from moderate Muslims. But IMHO, the entire, moderate Muslim community is either being extremely stupid or extremely naive in their lack of physical actions, (assuming that they do not actually condone these acts).

Sooner, rather than later, their failure to be right up at the forefront of loud and visual condemnation of these terrible atrocities will come back to haunt them.

[soalbundy]

Seems to me being a young Muslim in a western country is such a miserable experience with severe limits on having any sort of fun, can inspire a jealous hatred of their

They can always go back to where they are welcome but they do keep killing each other as well. Still, not everyone can adhere to a religion of peace.

[Opl]

I want to know why a certain group is not loudly demonstrating in the streets against ISIS, burning the ISIS flag and threatening to kill all ISIS members.

I wonder why that group is not condemning ISIS for daring to claim that these attacks were made in the name of Islam, nor why they are not looting and ramsacking the houses of immams who spread hate messages.

Who are that silent group?

The millions of moderate Muslims, who do little or nothing when these type of attacks occur.

Yes, I know there are social media statements of condemnation from moderate Muslims. But IMHO, the entire, moderate Muslim community is either being extremely stupid or extremely naive in their lack of physical actions, (assuming that they do not actually condone these acts).

Sooner, rather than later, their failure to be right up at the forefront of loud and visual condemnation of these terrible atrocities will come back to haunt them.

You're right, these " psychopatic monsters" ( so called by J. Kerry) because they refer to Islam, and because Islamism is a totalitarian ideology ( as anything...ism), Islamism should be defeated first by Muslims.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Opl

[ddavidovsky]

No harm if moderate Muslims are made to feel uncomfortable on account of the jihadist aspect of their religion. That will encourage them to change Islam in a moderate direction. It's not at all clear whether they understand this yet.

Rather than being combative, the west should be doing everything it can to facilitate the efforts of good Muslims to coordinate in bringing their religion into the modern era.

Edited November 17, 2015 by ddavidovsky

[jacky54]

I want to know why a certain group is not loudly demonstrating in the streets against ISIS, burning the ISIS flag and threatening to kill all ISIS members.

I wonder why that group is not condemning ISIS for daring to claim that these attacks were made in the name of Islam, nor why they are not looting and ramsacking the houses of immams who spread hate messages.

Who are that silent group?

The millions of moderate Muslims, who do little or nothing when these type of attacks occur.

Yes, I know there are social media statements of condemnation from moderate Muslims. But IMHO , the entire, moderate Muslim community is either being extremely stupid or extremely naive in their lack of physical actions, (assuming that they do not actually condone these acts).

Sooner, rather than later, their failure to be right up at the forefront of loud and visual condemnation of these terrible atrocities will come back to haunt them.

Moderate Muslims are irrelevant, they are not the problem. If half a billion came out on the streets it would not stop the others and not change a word of the Koran or a day in the life of the violent prophet who they follow. The real problem is that which inspires the violence which is Islam itself, until Islam is reformed, and especially the Koran this will continue just as it has for the last 1400 years. You do know why Sept 11th was chosen for the attack on the WTC? the past is the present for jihadists and they are hell bent on spreading Islam worldwide, with the 'moderates' cheering from behind their curtains of course.

[7by7]

One of the main ways in which ISIS, their supporters and other Islamist terrorists want to achieve their aims is to cause discord and hatred between Muslims and non Muslims.

Reading many posts in this and other topics, they have certainly achieved that aim among certain members here!

Well done, guys; you are doing the terrorist's work for them; proud of yourselves?

Fortunately, the hate filled views expressed here, whether in bald, hate filled rants or in lengthy, pseudo intellectual waffle, no more represent the view of the majority of non Muslims than the terrorists represent the view of the majority of Muslims.

Those same members often demand to know why Muslims do not condemn and protest against the terrorists.

On many occasions in various topics, evidence has been provided to show that Muslims all over the world, political leaders, religious leaders, community leaders, ordinary people, do just that.

But the same members who make that demand dismiss that evidence because they say that the people making those condemnations and protests are lying!

Yesterday, all over the world people of all religions, including Islam, or none stopped what they were doing at 12 noon French time to stand in a minutes silence in memory of the victims of this terrible crime and in solidarity with the French people.

I wonder how many of the haters on this forum joined in; few, if any at all, is my guess.

[MobileContent]

I live n a muslim country. I love it, its open, secular, can go to church if i want (i dont want to) can drink anything i want, have pork sandwiches, can go to the pub for my suday morning bacon and eggs.

Hope that i dont get kicked out of the country for not integrating to the muslim way. Seems they are more tolerant than some so called enlightened westerners.

So your telling us that their are no Muslim fanatics in Malaysia?

No, of course there are, just as there are extremist of any persuasion in any country. The US seems to have its fair share of killings that are not muslim related. In malaysia i feel a lot more safe than i have in any other country. Muslim extremism is a very rare thing in malaysia.

Chinese and Indians are second class citizens and every Malay of UMNO things of those 2 races as migrants. Let me say this if you are a Muslim from any where in the world and live in Malaysia you standing is still higher as as a Chinese or Indian. You live in a country that uses Islam to stay in power and even a PM can get away with getting deposited 680 million USD in his personal bank account.

Malaysia is the most corrupt country in ASEAN but of course it is safe as long you are a Muslim or have some bumiputra links. If you feel save and good in Malaysia and believe their is no extremism in Malaysia you are not better then any other persons that argues you and indeed you are a fanatic yourself.

It was the Malay Muslims that smiled at 9/11 when the WTC went down and so where the Muslims from Singapore and Indonesia when they cheered but you have never even responded to my post a few days ago but I guess the reason why is because I know how the fanatics are ticking in their mind.

Malaysia don't have fanatics? I wonder then how the war in the deep South of Thailand can be still going on without the help from Kelantan.

Now PAS and UMNO miight want to join hands in putting Islamic law throughout Malaysia. What do you think about Muslim gay people in Malaysia? Do you support them or should sharia law been invoked on them?

As I said before already I was part of Islam for 16 years and I am happy I left it.

As you think Malaysia is a great country you should join some of those forums in Malaysia or try some Jihad forums in the deep South. They surely will agree with you on most of the points and might even give you some bank accounts in Malaysia to put some money for a good course in Yala. Patani or Narathiwat but I know how you thing deep inside you. 1st Islam and everything else is 2nd. You are not the only one, but most of you are like that.

Edited November 17, 2015 by MobileContent