Are we being persecuted

[roo860]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

I think you've inhaled a few too many "chemicals" mate; judging by your spelling!!!!

[bazza40]

The immigration in Bangkok (Chaengwattana) closes down from 12;00 to 13;00 every work day for lunch.

There are even signs in English that announce that.

I don't know why this is noteworthy. There are plenty of government offices in Western countries that close for lunch as well.

[meltingpot2015]

You will probably find that the western countries offiices, if they say 1 hour for lunch, will open again exactly 1 hr from the time they stopped for lunch (or open few minutes before the 1hr is up).

I've visited the Office of the consumer protection Board (OCBP) in Bangkok, which is in the same building as Chang Wattana Immigration. The staff stop for lunch at 12:00pm then grudgingly amble back to their desks at 1:15pm.

Affects Thai people and foreigners.

Edited November 21, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[connda]

Immigration is it's own issue and should comments should be directed to Immigration Promenada One Stop Service v2, because yeah, something is different here.

As far as being discriminated against, if you live here long enough you realize that foreigners are treated as foreigners in Thailand. Dual pricing, scams, etc are just part of the territory. I've lived in Bangkok, Korat, and Chiang Mai, and I can't say that I've experience a lot of difference in the different locations. In Korat I was treated more like a local than a 'potential tourist', probably because there are a lot less foreigners living their. As far as bar closing, no difference that I can see. The laws just are not applied uniformly.

[connda]

Other than Chiangmai Immigration, which as noted many times, is a nightmare, I've never felt persecuted here. However, lately, I do feel less welcomed. Not generally, but in a few places. Today I did my now and again escape from the city heat and congestion by riding up the mountain to Doi Pui. I skip the Doi Suthep temple, having seen it so many times and given how crowded it is.

I decided on a stop at the Mon Tha Than waterfall, which is located in a National Park. As I rode up I was asked for 100B. I said, in Thai, that I live in Chiangmai, and produced my Thai driving license. The woman consulted with someone else, and said "mai daay". I said, "used to work", and she acknowledged that it did, but said "no more". In keeping with my policy that I don't pay more than others, I thanked her and left.

I have the same policy. Note to self. No more trips to Naam Dok Montha. But also like you said, I've been to many of these places so many time that the novelty has wore off. I tend to like to go off the beaten path with my Thai family or alone.

[connda]

Big Carl, I am also in Chiang Mai and tend to agree with you that the immigration offices up here are maybe not persecuting us, but are making as many obstacles and hoop jumps for us as they can.

There is a definate sentiment in the area I live that they would be better off without White Foreigners. This has never been noticeable in my area before but it is now.

In some ways you cannot blame the average people as it is day after day there are news reports from all over Thailand of farangs ripping people off, scamming with bank cards etc. Who would blame them?

But as you mentioned with immigration up here, (that must be the worst in the country) they seem intent in making our lives as difficult as possible.

Firstly they split the immigration offices into Airport and Promenada, I have still been unable to find out which one transfers an extension to a new passport.

Then they removed the queue online service forcing people to have to go there at 4 and 5 AM to try and get an appointment.

I wrongly assumed that the move to promenada was to set up a new all encompassing immigration service, how wrong I was, it looks more like divide and conquer.

It also seems like the more negative press they get in the west the more they get the hump and make life more difficult for us and align themselves closer to China at every opportunity.

There is a definite sentiment in the area I live that they would be better off without White Foreigners. This has never been noticeable in my area before but it is now.

I live in almost 100% Thai communities in Chiang Mai and our home in Lamphun. I speak Thais with the Thais, know many of the locals, and act as Thai do in many cases including going to our local Wats. I haven't perceived any real difference other that there is a bit of desperation in a number of business that I frequent because business is way down from what it was say 5 years ago. A lot less farangs, who individually would spend money, as individuals (Western culture, 'eh), and more Chinese who tend to be tour oriented. So the negative effect is on small business owners. Those that cater to both foreigners and Thais tend to do much better. So I haven't heard any 'Farang Go Home' rhetorical, but on the contrary, I'm hearing that other way around. "Business bad, no farang." Just my own observation. Your mileage may vary.

[bazza40]

You will probably find that the western countries offiices, if they say 1 hour for lunch, will open again exactly 1 hr from the time they stopped for lunch (or open few minutes before the 1hr is up).

I've visited the Office of the consumer protection Board (OCBP) in Bangkok, which is in the same building as Chang Wattana Immigration. The staff stop for lunch at 12:00pm then grudgingly amble back to their desks at 1:15pm.

Affects Thai people and foreigners.

You should try Malaysia. Worked there in private industry. Midday all the Muslim males would head off to the mosque (allegedly), leaving any females to run the plant by themselves. Straggle back in about 2.30 pm. No wonder the business was struggling to make a profit.

Consumer Protection in Thailand?

[meltingpot2015]

You will probably find that the western countries offiices, if they say 1 hour for lunch, will open again exactly 1 hr from the time they stopped for lunch (or open few minutes before the 1hr is up).

I've visited the Office of the consumer protection Board (OCBP) in Bangkok, which is in the same building as Chang Wattana Immigration. The staff stop for lunch at 12:00pm then grudgingly amble back to their desks at 1:15pm.

Affects Thai people and foreigners.

You should try Malaysia. Worked there in private industry. Midday all the Muslim males would head off to the mosque (allegedly), leaving any females to run the plant by themselves. Straggle back in about 2.30 pm. No wonder the business was struggling to make a profit.

Consumer Protection in Thailand?

I know, consumer protection in thailand is a bit of joke, especially for retail purchases. But some guys have had success with OCBP when they've had issues with a bank. Threads about this on here.

Been to Malaysia recently. Actually KL Airport only. That was enough. What on earth were they thinking with that airport.

Edited November 21, 2015 by meltingpot2015

[big carl]

Thank you all for your input. It is fairly obvious that Chiang Mai is not the only place with the on and off again midnight enforcement.

It is also obvious that Chiang Mai is the only place in Thailand that is having any problems with immigration. I can safely say based on the information supplied here by posters that yes when it comes to imagination we are the only place in Thailand being persecuted. I use that word because many times people line up as early as 4 in the morning to get an appointment and there are times when people coming at 6 in the morning after waiting 2 and one half hours to get a number are told to come back tomorrow.

We are how ever fortunate to have a few visa agencies that for a price starting at 3,000 baht to 5,500 baht will do all the work. All you have to do is show up at a time they will tell you. Also it is only a once a year event thank goodness.

With that being said I notice the topic is drifting off with no new information Moderator please close the thread.

[louse1953]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.

Immigration in CM is a disgrace.

Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

There are about 1.68 million Thais living in CM province. Best guesses as to foreigners, perhaps 200-300 thousand Countrywide.

Bangkok and Pattaya, perhaps Phuket, will have a greater concentration of foreigners than Chiang Mai by a long shot.

Google it.

Do border runners count as residents? Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm just speculating that maybe CM- and Thais as a whole- is not so hot about the foreigners there. Thais seem perfectly happy to let us have our crusty slum on the beach, but CM seems a bit sacred to many of the Thais I know. They all say there's too many foreigners there now. A lot of em are going to Chiang Khan now.

So a lot of Thais are leaving their homes,jobs,friends kids schools and moving to Chiang Khan and doing what exactly.

[eldragon]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

3,000,000 Thais Vs 100,000 foreigners.
Immigration in CM is a disgrace.
Bar opening times are restricted all over the world, drink when they're open.

There are about 1.68 million Thais living in CM province. Best guesses as to foreigners, perhaps 200-300 thousand Countrywide.
Bangkok and Pattaya, perhaps Phuket, will have a greater concentration of foreigners than Chiang Mai by a long shot.
Google it.

Do border runners count as residents? Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter. I'm just speculating that maybe CM- and Thais as a whole- is not so hot about the foreigners there. Thais seem perfectly happy to let us have our crusty slum on the beach, but CM seems a bit sacred to many of the Thais I know. They all say there's too many foreigners there now. A lot of em are going to Chiang Khan now.

So a lot of Thais are leaving their homes,jobs,friends kids schools and moving to Chiang Khan and doing what exactly.

...for holidays.

[spidermike007]

It depends on your perspective, and your definition of persecution. When I think of persecution, I think of frequent arrests on baseless allegations, nights in jail, expensive court cases, constant harassment by police, hostile locals, Chinese style arrests and torture, violence committed against me, etc, etc. I experience none of that here. I would almost say I experience the opposite of persecution.

[big carl]

It depends on your perspective, and your definition of persecution. When I think of persecution, I think of frequent arrests on baseless allegations, nights in jail, expensive court cases, constant harassment by police, hostile locals, Chinese style arrests and torture, violence committed against me, etc, etc. I experience none of that here. I would almost say I experience the opposite of persecution.

O explained in an earlier post. I also asked the monitors to close this thread as it has answered my questions and is now going elsewhere. Apparently you are not the only one who did not read my posts.

To sum it up for you No Chiang Mai is not being signaled out for enforcing bar closing times.

Yes it is being persecuted at immigration.

There is no other Province in Thailand according to the answers posted here that is being handled the same at immigration as Chiang Mai is. I can assure you there is definitely room to make the foreign residents much happier. Some are even considering moving out of Thailand because of it. I think they are silly but then again I don't know what they are going to be moving in to so they might be right. For me it is only one day of the year and mine is a retirement Visa so that means I don't have any thing else to do. I am allowed to renew it 30 days or 45 days before it is up. Lots of time.

How ever it can be a problem for others.

[spidermike007]

It depends on your perspective, and your definition of persecution. When I think of persecution, I think of frequent arrests on baseless allegations, nights in jail, expensive court cases, constant harassment by police, hostile locals, Chinese style arrests and torture, violence committed against me, etc, etc. I experience none of that here. I would almost say I experience the opposite of persecution.

O explained in an earlier post. I also asked the monitors to close this thread as it has answered my questions and is now going elsewhere. Apparently you are not the only one who did not read my posts.

To sum it up for you No Chiang Mai is not being signaled out for enforcing bar closing times.

Yes it is being persecuted at immigration.

There is no other Province in Thailand according to the answers posted here that is being handled the same at immigration as Chiang Mai is. I can assure you there is definitely room to make the foreign residents much happier. Some are even considering moving out of Thailand because of it. I think they are silly but then again I don't know what they are going to be moving in to so they might be right. For me it is only one day of the year and mine is a retirement Visa so that means I don't have any thing else to do. I am allowed to renew it 30 days or 45 days before it is up. Lots of time.

How ever it can be a problem for others.

When I lived in Samui, I felt the same way about their immigration. Really terrible. Rude. Occasionally obnoxious. So, I went elsewhere. Usually Bangkok. Never had any issues other than the crowds. So, why not try that. Tell them you divide your time between CM and the other area you go. Easy deal. You don't like CM immigration, ignore them like the plague, and so elsewhere. Forget the law. Improvise in the face of madness and inefficiency.

[Beats56]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

Too hot down there. I worked as a consultant in Map Ta Phut years ago and was in a lather of sweat anytime I ventured away from the air conditioning.

I really don't think falangs are persecuted, although we are viewed as a cash cow. However, with the amount of negativity towards CM I'm encountering on TV I do wonder if I'm living in the same city.

[Beats56]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

Too hot down there. I worked as a consultant in Map Ta Phut years ago and was in a lather of sweat anytime I ventured away from the air conditioning.

I really don't think falangs are persecuted, although we are viewed as a cash cow. However, with the amount of negativity towards CM I'm encountering on TV I do wonder if I'm living in the same city.

[Beats56]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

Too hot down there. I worked as a consultant in Map Ta Phut years ago and was in a lather of sweat anytime I ventured away from the air conditioning.

I really don't think falangs are persecuted, although we are viewed as a cash cow. However, with the amount of negativity towards CM I'm encountering on TV I do wonder if I'm living in the same city.

[Beats56]

Move to Rayong. I don't go bars except the coffee beer place down the road. I have a brew watching the traffic race down the street. Really it actually a nice town. People are frendily and never had a problem here. I know it is not Chang mia. But it is a decent place to live.except for the industrial estate in MAP ta putt which I worked at a few years ago.but comming from Chemical Valley in Ontario it is no problem for me.and the Imagration people are easy to deal with.

Too hot down there. I worked as a consultant in Map Ta Phut years ago and was in a lather of sweat anytime I ventured away from the air conditioning.

I really don't think falangs are persecuted, although we are viewed as a cash cow. However, with the amount of negativity towards CM I'm encountering on TV I do wonder if I'm living in the same city.

[Beats56]

Ya it can get Damm hot here. But I like it.just the right size city for me

[orchis]

persecution, it is complex.

[thaibeachlovers]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

I wouldn't say it's that high, but yes, lots of foreigners in Chiang Mai. Maybe something like 7-8% of the population...if even that. Much less than a place like Pattaya, but more than the typical Nakorn nowhere. If you go to the tourist areas, then of course there will be mostly tourists. I'd also say that foreigners in Chiang Mai are more of the "normal" variety, as opposed to the hardcore sexpats. The bar scene in Chiang Mai is tiny, compared to Pattaya, BKK, Phuket, etc. Hopefully it stays that way.

My bad. I should've checked my numbers first. Just looking at the Internet here, it seems to be more like 400,000 Thais and 30K foreigners, so your guesstimate is right on. Still seems like there's a lot of us up there in the downtown area. My Thai friends complain about it all the time. Say it's turning into Phuket, slowly but surely. I predict Chiang Khan will become the new Chiang Mai, at least for the Thais.

I doubt Phuket will ever be as big a disaster zone, traffic wise as C M, which has to have the worst traffic, outside Bkk, in Thailand.

The bar area in C M is pathetic, even Phuket, which I would never go near again, has Bangla.

It's got to the stage I will only go north if I can avoid going into C M. Luckily there are some good by passes.

To answer the OP, there are reasons the immigration is so bad, which are answered on the 3 threads about it, but I'm not explaining it on a public forum.

I doubt we are being persecuted.

[willyumiii]

I have no problem with Immigration in my area ( I live south of Korat and go to the Korat Immigration office)

But like your area, the police are strict about enforcing the 12:00 closing time of bars here.

[daveAustin]

CM is more like 20:1 Thai:foreigner, not 2:1. In answer to your question(s), they don't want you (us) here. [emoji6]

[Ireland32]

its the cia and fbi and the new world order and the Alumini

Luminati

[autanic]

Persecution ? No

Do they like a load of foreigners swanning about taking over their city ? No

Do they like seeing their hot totty girls/daughter having sexy time with a man old enough to be your Father ? No

Do they just want peace and quiet and to make business and money like everyone else in the world ? Yes

Look at things from their point of view, we all showed up to their party, drank their booze, slept with their women and are sitting on their couch with out feet on the table, asking what the <deleted>> it up, with that slapped a-se they call a face.

Were the problem my friend, not them.

[Howitzer]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

wait so the foreigners must be farang and not asian right? Because you wouldn't have been able to tell thais apart from other asians and you know some chinese/chinese looking ppl are thais.

[eldragon]

I assume you're talking about the bars that cater to foreigners. And no, it's not the only place. Udon Thani has a small strip of girly bars and western bars, and to the best of my knowledge they all close around midnight. I imagine those are not the only two provinces that operate as such. With regards to immigration, Chiang Mai has one of the highest if not the highest concentrations of foreigners in Thailand. Seriously, last time I was up there in the downtown area, it was a bit of a struggle to find Thai people. I think I heard there are about 200,000 Thais living in Chiang Mai province and an estimated 100,000 foreigners.

wait so the foreigners must be farang and not asian right? Because you wouldn't have been able to tell thais apart from other asians and you know some chinese/chinese looking ppl are thais.

Mostly white foreigners, yes. But I can spot a Chinese person in a crowd of Thais 9/10 times. I assume Thais are 10/10. Same with Fillys, Khmers, and Burmese. Laos not so much. Edited January 6, 2016 by eldragon