Immigrants' spouses 'must speak English before entering UK'

[webfact]

Immigrants' spouses 'must speak English before entering UK'
Press Association

Supreme court judges unanimously dismiss Saiqa Bibi and Saffana Ali’s claim that pre-entry English test breaches their right to a private and family life

LONDON: -- The supreme court has rejected a challenge against an immigration rule requiring spouses to be able to speak English before moving to the UK.

Five justices in London had been urged to rule that the pre-entry measure was “unreasonable, disproportionate and discriminatory”. But the panel, led by the court’s president, Lord Neuberger, unanimously dismissed an appeal by two women, who are British citizens. Their husbands, who cannot speak English, are foreign nationals and wish to join them in the UK.

Saiqa Bibi and Saffana Ali claimed the requirement breached their right to a private and family life under article eight of the European convention on human rights. It was said in both cases it would not be feasible for their husbands to pass a test before moving to the UK. But the supreme court decided on Wednesday that the rule did not infringe article eight.

Although the supreme court rejected the challenge against the rule, the judges asked for further submissions from the parties on “whether a declaration should be made that the operation of the guidance in its present form is incompatible with article eight rights, where compliance with the requirement is impracticable”.

Full story: http://www.theguardian.com/law/2015/nov/18/immigrants-spouses-must-speak-english-before-entering-uk

-- The Guardian 2015-11-19

[canopus1969]

Well done those Judges

[khwaibah]

[vogie]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

[Always18]

Before you all start saying "Well done!" etc., just remember that this rule ONLY applies to genuine non-EU visa migrants, NOT to anyone entering via the EU or via the "Surinder Singh" route, nor the hordes of non-visa, illegal,"migrants" or any so-called refugees.

The current extortionate costs involved in applying for a UK visa plus the other onerous requirements, I believe, will only deter genuine applicants from taking the legal or formal route into the UK...............I would completely agree with this policy if it applied across the board but as it stands it is totally discriminatory against British citizens wishing to bring their non-EU spouses back to the UK.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Always18

[Mister Fixit]

'The men would have to learn computer skills'

Good, something else to help them properly integrate into UK society and GET A JOB, as well as learning English to a satisfactory degree.

Win - win for both of them. Now get stuck in and learn to read and write first ...

[roo860]

If they are so keen to come to the UK then take language lessons BEFORE they leave.

[Trevor1809]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

A very valid point. The UK Government would prefer that all UK spouses go to Thailand to live. Heaven forbid that British spouses were expected to learn Thai to the same level that immigrants to the UK have to learn English.

I assume that the 2 women concerned had met the earnings requirement?

[durhamboy]

I do not agree with most of the posters here that think this is a good decision. In fact the judges also said that the way HMG implements the language test may be unlawful. We have seen countless examples of unfairness and confusion with these tests. Indeed there is one running at this moment in the forum.

The principle of people speaking English is fine however the implementation of it is an absolute shambles. I also think we have a hypocritical arrogance about this. We colonised the world but hardly spoke a word of local language. We also moved millions of people around the world to suit our economic needs e.g. Malaysia (then Malaya) where we moved millions of Chinese and Indian labourers to exploit natural resources. We never bothered that those immigrants couldn't speak Malay (or English). This was done to such an extent that the Malay indigenous population ended up at about 55% and in many places e.g. Singapore only around 20%.

Happy with English Tests? Be careful what you wish for.

[mickyboy]

shame that dont count for everyone meaning eastern europeans who cant speak english but can take our benefits and all asylum seekers

[Emster23]

Once a husband and wife speak a common language, honeymoon is over and might as well file for divorce

[johninbkk]

Well done those Judges

Who paid the <deleted> lawyers and court cost????

The greens, (goodie goodies) I expect.

[sanukjim]

Women get paid by Africans to wed them for immigration purposes only.Look what happen in The US.They got a Muslim president from this..55555

[jacky54]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

Don't you need language skills for residency and to become a national in Thailand then?

[beano2274]

for Germans to take their wives back to Germany they also need to have passed a German language test up to level B2, so it is not just the UK Government who do this.

shame they are not checking if all the refugees can speak German, before letting them in...

[VINCENT2012]

excelent...decision!

in uk english...

in france ..french

in germany ...german

and so on....it is incredible as thai woman can't learn any language even living with a foreigner in his own country...i have seen many example allready here....australian , english american etc etc ..!

in our rich countries we have more than enough ...immigration .....who do not integrate themself and use our taxes and laws to get only rights and a better life....and what does thailand for us in return...??????

just nothing ...here if you have money you can stay and if you dont ...even married or whatever ...you have to go.

so if i could decide i would aplicate the same laws as thailand aplicate to other citizens from others countries

eye for eye, teeth for teeth

and have a good day!

[Gandtee]

It's a good job that Thailand does not have the same rule. Not many guys would be allowed in

[7by7]

As this case shows, in some countries it is difficult, and sometimes simply not feasible, for applicants to get to a test centre. All the approved ones in Thailand are in Bangkok.

Some countries don't have approved test centres at all! So applicants there have to travel to a neighbouring country to take the test.

So, whilst I have no objection at all to the principle of family migrants having to pass an English test, I feel a fairer, and more practicable, system would be to allow them to take it once in the UK; especially for applicants from countries where taking the test is impracticable or even impossible. They need a pass for their FLR application anyway, so they wouldn't be able to avoid doing so.

Plus, of course, they need a higher grade pass plus the LitUK test to apply for ILR.

A note to those EEA bashers; if the UK insisted on migrants from other EEA countries learning English, then this would become an EEA wide requirement. How many of the approximately 2 million British citizens currently exercising an economic treaty right in another EEA country can speak the local language?

[roo860]

It's a good job that Thailand does not have the same rule. Not many guys would be allowed in

Pity they don't have the same rule.

[jacky54]

They do if you want to be in on a permanent basis

[bobrussell]

The English language level A1 is pretty basic. Just enough for 'survival' in the UK.

The people applying are about to upsticks and move around the world so a little inconvenience is to be expected. They will need to attend VFS or similar for biometrics to be done so, presumably they will be travelling to a city for this. A little organisation to allow an English test should not be beyond the capabilities of most. It cannot IMO be impractical to apply the ruling but there might be cases where it is difficult.

Of course there are probably more slick ways to organise things but UKVI are unlikely to be too interested in the convenience for applicants.

The legal ruling makes it clear that demanding the ability to speak basic English is not illegal. How the authorities demand this may infringe human rights.

[Thai at Heart]

Since it isn't applied to EU spouses it is manifestly racist and discriminatory. A French man is free to import his completely illiterate wife to the UK, but a British man is not. This is a gross betrayal of the rights of British people.

[bobrussell]

But a French man is not allowed to bring his 'illiterate' wife to France. A British person can bring their 'illiterate' wife to live in France!

Perhaps not logical but not racist and not discriminatory. The rights of nationals of both countries are roughly equivalent!

[naboo]

Thaivisa posters on top form.

I assume you're all fluent in Thai.

[Thai at Heart]

But a French man is not allowed to bring his 'illiterate' wife to France. A British person can bring their 'illiterate' wife to live in France!

Perhaps not logical but not racist and not discriminatory. The rights of nationals of both countries are roughly equivalent!

Ah, but a French man can bring his illiterate wife to Britain, whilst a British cannot.

The ultimate discrimination.

They have got themselves into a horrible mess because of the EU rules. Right now I am working with 2 Indian labourers in London, one with a Portuguese residency and another with Italian.

Neither can speak a word of English, but are free to work and live here. Both have their indian/european wives sitting in Portugal and Italy waiting to come to the UK once they have cash together.

British law cannot stop them.

British law cannot prevent the entry of the spouse of an EU citizen or resident, but it can prevent a Brit. This is ridiculous state of affairs.

[bobrussell]

But French law cannot prevent a British person bringing their spouse to live in France! Daft perhaps but equal! The so called Surinder Singh route.

Only changes in EU law will change this or a decision to leave the EU. There will be many, many people avoiding national laws this way.

Doctors need to demonstrate a good standard of English. Not sure that the pharmacist does yet. Attempts are being made to change the rules so veterinary surgeons must meet English language requirements. Hopefully it will come to every job where lives are at stake!

[thaiduncankk]

I hope Thailand doesn't follow suit.

Don't you need language skills for residency and to become a national in Thailand then?

No, but they have some financial advantage.

What has a Thai, non English speaker, probably a bar girl, or worse, an internet girl have to offer ?

[samran]

Thaivisa posters on top form.

I assume you're all fluent in Thai.

They'll tell you that they are only here temporarily. "I'm a non-immigrant, my visa even says so..." Ignoring the fact they are actually on extensions of stay....

Besides, they bring in so much money, that silly rules like this shouldn't apply to them.....only silly little brown fellas who will never integrate anyway.

[sead]

Before you all start saying "Well done!" etc., just remember that this rule ONLY applies to genuine non-EU visa migrants, NOT to anyone entering via the EU or via the "Surinder Singh" route, nor the hordes of non-visa, illegal,"migrants" or any so-called refugees.

The current extortionate costs involved in applying for a UK visa plus the other onerous requirements, I believe, will only deter genuine applicants from taking the legal or formal route into the UK...............I would completely agree with this policy if it applied across the board but as it stands it is totally discriminatory against British citizens wishing to bring their non-EU spouses back to the UK.

Exactly. This is same situation as my brother from Sweden married a girl from Serbia. She waited 3 years to get visa to Sweden but got denied. But all the immigrants can go and do whatever they want.

[Jonmarleesco]

'It was said in both cases it would not be feasible for their husbands to pass a test before moving to the UK.' And doubtless they wouldn't bother to learn once they were in. Might not even bother to work. Perhaps the two women could demonstrate their Englishness by adopting more English names.