Farangs need to cope better!

[hbullinger]

You don't need to read Thai Visa posts. Just do a little test. Go along a pavement (if you find one), nod and offer a little smile at anyone you meet. Count the responses from Thai people and Farangs and you will find that about twice as many Thais will respond in a friendly manner whereas most Farangs will either look straight on, ignoring you or even give you a nasty and grumpy look. I feel sorry for all these guys who sit outside bars and cafes, staring at the road and sipping from their drink, often only water.

Maybe they are happy, but it definitely doesn't look like it.

[TuskegeeBen]

Don't feed the Troll...

Other than accusing other posters committing “troll” infractions, is there some phenomenal event, that might occasion you to demonstrate your own ability to contribute, either a significant thought, or a considered opinion to the

OP’s topic thread, instead? I’d be interested in reading your perspective (assuming you have one, to begin with), without making any publicly posted value judgements, afterwards. Guaranteed! I promise -

Edited November 21, 2015 by TuskegeeBen

[TuskegeeBen]

You don't need to read Thai Visa posts. Just do a little test. Go along a pavement (if you find one), nod and offer a little smile at anyone you meet. Count the responses from Thai people and Farangs and you will find that about twice as many Thais will respond in a friendly manner whereas most Farangs will either look straight on, ignoring you or even give you a nasty and grumpy look. I feel sorry for all these guys who sit outside bars and cafes, staring at the road and sipping from their drink, often only water.

Maybe they are happy, but it definitely doesn't look like it.

Interesting point of view. I definitely agree with you.

[Cypress Hill]

We have a right to be angry, Thais should try it sometimes. They should be angry about Illegal coups, the carnage on the roads, the inadequate education system, censorship of the media and internet, less then half a percent owning over 50 percent of the wealth, LM, corruption and the ongoing insurgency in the south. The mai pen rai don't think too much attitude does snot seem to be improving things does it.

What do you mean "the Thais should try it some time"?

You think they aren't livid about list of things you reeled off and more?

Maybe you should try to be a little less patronising.

Thais don't need YOU or any other foreigner to tell them what's imperfect about their country

Nobody has said "they" need "us" to tell them what's wrong with their country, only that Thailand might be a better place if Thais did something about the things you claim bother them - and that doesn't mean wearing a colored shirt and waving hand clappers.

Truth can stand on it's own merits and falsehood withers. That's the power of reason and debate - enforced silence is contemptible, the bastion of the liar and the tyrant.

I responded to a poster who suggested Thais should be angry about the issues that dog their society. I suggested they are angry as evidenced by countless protests and demonstrations over the years.

Issues like better education, healthcare and an end to corruption have all been wrapped up in that but the recliner evangelists suggest it's not enough even though the Thais did what they could to try to effect change within the framework permitted by a constitution that is now in shreds.

Protest now in any noticeable numbers and be arrested, detained and possibly imprisoned.

Would YOU take that chance with children at home??

Oh of course you would, you're a mighty farang

[ldiablo]

Oh look my farang friend that Thai man is beating that young woman.

Ahhh, who cares it's not my country, I'm only a guest here.

What a stupid topic.

[NativeSon360]

Oh look my farang friend that Thai man is beating that young woman.

Ahhh, who cares it's not my country, I'm only a guest here.

What a stupid topic.

Why not start a more intelligent topic thread of discussion, and make a positive contrbution to the community, instead? Eh?

[DavidBonnie]

To those who use terms like, 'the mighty farang' or, 'Thais don't need your advice' . . .a few words but first; today I spent many hours in the company of some really terrific Thai people. A plastic surgeon and his staff. They were intelligent and faultlesseley polite and warm.

We discussed Thai culture and he was at pains never to seem 'boastful' as he put it by saying anything positive about himself. He did comment in a sidaways fashion about some other Thai people who exploit foreigners and think only of money and he did refer to some 'old school' Thais who cannot move with the times. I have known him for some time and he has always impressed me with his sincerity, honesty and integrity.

Unfortunately, that is a very rare experience.

Many Thai people who are wealthy are arrogant to the point of proving themselves 'better' than the foreigners they encounter . . . unless that foreigner wields power over them in which case they are subservient and ingratiating. It is the Thai way.

Lots of poorer Thai people are warm, friendly and very genuine in their dealings but lots cannot resist trying to find ways to steal money from foreigners by dishonesty, even if it's only a little bit. That being said they are also happy to steal from their own family.

It is not for nothing that Thai people have a saying, 'when one has money, one has family'! I have never encountered the same kind of thing in the west.

Lots of Thais whose job it is to provide a service are dangerous and unreliable.

Thai people are much less able to control their emotions in my experience and what may seem a minor event, say a bus conductor asking you to move along the bus or boat or a taxi driver taking you the wrong way can very easily escalate beyond your imagination if you call them on their behaviour.

In the west there is violence of course but I certainly feel that the events leading up to it are easier for us foreigners to predict than they are in Thailand.

I also think that in many cases western men may call it quits after a blow or two have been exchanged. If you knock someone on their ass in a fair but violent exchange your opponent and you are likely to shake hands after. A Thai fella will go and get his coconut machete or pistol.

Thais practice (are forced to practice) Sam Ruam (look it up) moderating one's responses to others in respect of ultra politeness (greng jai) this tends to suppress emotional outbursts before they begin and so by adulthood most Thais have not really been able to practice moderating their anger.

In the west we are encouraged to be assertive whist remaining cool headed, calm assertiveness, Thais are not. They are either submissive or completely insensitive/aggressive.

Couple this with the Thai nature which is schooled from an early age to be submissive and arrogant in equal measure. They believe that everything Thai is the best.

Add the jealousy and sometimes contempt with which Thais who have close contact with foreigners often hod us and you have a very potent mix. Gelegnite; one shake and it's BOOM!

This kind of thing tends to happen in contexts in which Thais see us acting disrespectfully, without composure or grace with little discretion. places like Bangkok's Sukhumvit (low numbers) and Pattaya.

Starting a fight with a Thai? You better be able to finish it, is all I can say, and quickly before a mob of them attack you.

Sometimes it is the better part of valour to walk away, pay up and forget it. Sometimes one can't do that.

Trust me, poor and wealthy alike, Thais would lose absolutely no sleep whatever about killing a foreigner.

While I may be accused of generalising about an entire nation; better safe than sorry.

Once again, before the flamethrowers come out, this has been my experience.

Lots of Thai people are a delight but when they are not they are often downright dangerous and view us or each other as little more than cattle.

I also think that Thais could certainly use our advice. Most of us have lived in a pretty sophisticated political system and seen it's pitfalls and cruelties.

Take a look at what is happening here right now and you have to accept that it is little better than a banana republic, a feudal state.

[NativeSon360]

We have a right to be angry, Thais should try it sometimes. They should be angry about Illegal coups, the carnage on the roads, the inadequate education system, censorship of the media and internet, less then half a percent owning over 50 percent of the wealth, LM, corruption and the ongoing insurgency in the south. The mai pen rai don't think too much attitude does snot seem to be improving things does it.

What do you mean "the Thais should try it some time"?

You think they aren't livid about list of things you reeled off and more?

Maybe you should try to be a little less patronising.

Thais don't need YOU or any other foreigner to tell them what's imperfect about their country

Nobody has said "they" need "us" to tell them what's wrong with their country, only that Thailand might be a better place if Thais did something about the things you claim bother them - and that doesn't mean wearing a colored shirt and waving hand clappers.

Truth can stand on it's own merits and falsehood withers. That's the power of reason and debate - enforced silence is contemptible, the bastion of the liar and the tyrant.

I responded to a poster who suggested Thais should be angry about the issues that dog their society. I suggested they are angry as evidenced by countless protests and demonstrations over the years.

Issues like better education, healthcare and an end to corruption have all been wrapped up in that but the recliner evangelists suggest it's not enough even though the Thais did what they could to try to effect change within the framework permitted by a constitution that is now in shreds.

Protest now in any noticeable numbers and be arrested, detained and possibly imprisoned.

Would YOU take that chance with children at home??

Oh of course you would, you're a mighty farang

[Cypress Hill]

To those who use terms like, 'the mighty farang' or, 'Thais don't need your advice' . . .a few words but first; today I spent many hours in the company of some really terrific Thai people. A plastic surgeon and his staff. They were intelligent and faultlesseley polite and warm.

We discussed Thai culture and he was at pains never to seem 'boastful' as he put it by saying anything positive about himself. He did comment in a sidaways fashion about some other Thai people who exploit foreigners and think only of money and he did refer to some 'old school' Thais who cannot move with the times. I have known him for some time and he has always impressed me with his sincerity, honesty and integrity.

Unfortunately, that is a very rare experience.

Many Thai people who are wealthy are arrogant to the point of proving themselves 'better' than the foreigners they encounter . . . unless that foreigner wields power over them in which case they are subservient and ingratiating. It is the Thai way.

Lots of poorer Thai people are warm, friendly and very genuine in their dealings but lots cannot resist trying to find ways to steal money from foreigners by dishonesty, even if it's only a little bit. That being said they are also happy to steal from their own family.

It is not for nothing that Thai people have a saying, 'when one has money, one has family'! I have never encountered the same kind of thing in the west.

Lots of Thais whose job it is to provide a service are dangerous and unreliable.

Thai people are much less able to control their emotions in my experience and what may seem a minor event, say a bus conductor asking you to move along the bus or boat or a taxi driver taking you the wrong way can very easily escalate beyond your imagination if you call them on their behaviour.

In the west there is violence of course but I certainly feel that the events leading up to it are easier for us foreigners to predict than they are in Thailand.

I also think that in many cases western men may call it quits after a blow or two have been exchanged. If you knock someone on their ass in a fair but violent exchange your opponent and you are likely to shake hands after. A Thai fella will go and get his coconut machete or pistol.

Thais practice (are forced to practice) Sam Ruam (look it up) moderating one's responses to others in respect of ultra politeness (greng jai) this tends to suppress emotional outbursts before they begin and so by adulthood most Thais have not really been able to practice moderating their anger.

In the west we are encouraged to be assertive whist remaining cool headed, calm assertiveness, Thais are not. They are either submissive or completely insensitive/aggressive.

Couple this with the Thai nature which is schooled from an early age to be submissive and arrogant in equal measure. They believe that everything Thai is the best.

Add the jealousy and sometimes contempt with which Thais who have close contact with foreigners often hod us and you have a very potent mix. Gelegnite; one shake and it's BOOM!

This kind of thing tends to happen in contexts in which Thais see us acting disrespectfully, without composure or grace with little discretion. places like Bangkok's Sukhumvit (low numbers) and Pattaya.

Starting a fight with a Thai? You better be able to finish it, is all I can say, and quickly before a mob of them attack you.

Sometimes it is the better part of valour to walk away, pay up and forget it. Sometimes one can't do that.

Trust me, poor and wealthy alike, Thais would lose absolutely no sleep whatever about killing a foreigner.

While I may be accused of generalising about an entire nation; better safe than sorry.

Once again, before the flamethrowers come out, this has been my experience.

Lots of Thai people are a delight but when they are not they are often downright dangerous and view us or each other as little more than cattle.

I also think that Thais could certainly use our advice. Most of us have lived in a pretty sophisticated political system and seen it's pitfalls and cruelties.

Take a look at what is happening here right now and you have to accept that it is little better than a banana republic, a feudal state.

Whatever

This thread is not supposed to be about whether Thais are angry, how they deal with that anger or if the wealthier among them think they're better than farangs they encounter.

It's supposed to be about how farangs might better cope with life here

I don't think becoming embroiled in the nonsense of Thai politics or social issues is good way for farangs to do that

I do, however, believe that if the typical, up-his-own-ass farang dialed down the putrid stench of self-importance he projects at the merest whiff of an assault on his personal sense of what's fair or right in this country while viewed through the prism of a Western value system, that'd be a great start.

Not for one second does that mean he should let Thai people take the pi55 out of him but there's some shit you gotta let slide

[JLCrab]

< snip >

I do, however, believe that if the typical, up-his-own-ass farang dialed down the putrid stench of self-importance he projects at the merest whiff of an assault on his personal sense of what's fair or right in this country while viewed through the prism of a Western value system, that'd be a great start.

Not for one second does that mean he should let Thai people take the pi55 out of him but there's some shit you gotta let slide

You seem to encounter a lot of farangs with a "putrid stench of self-importance". Maybe you could use a change of scenery.

[vaultdweller0013]

You don't need to read Thai Visa posts. Just do a little test. Go along a pavement (if you find one), nod and offer a little smile at anyone you meet. Count the responses from Thai people and Farangs and you will find that about twice as many Thais will respond in a friendly manner whereas most Farangs will either look straight on, ignoring you or even give you a nasty and grumpy look. I feel sorry for all these guys who sit outside bars and cafes, staring at the road and sipping from their drink, often only water.

Maybe they are happy, but it definitely doesn't look like it.

If someone was walking down the street in the US smiling and nodding at everyone passing by, they would be regarded as a little strange. Being overly friendly with strangers is unusual and is associated with people looking for money or other sorts of scams. Simply ignoring them would be the most common response, and they would get their fair share of odd looks. This has nothing to do with being happy or sad. It is just the standard response of the culture to someone who isn't behaving according to the cultural norms.

[NativeSon360]

i always smile when thais comment on foreigners' anger. i see far more public displays of anger in this country then anywhere else i have lived. interestingly the root cause of their anger is usually either money or love.

Apparently, you haven't lived in very many different places of the world. I do have my negative issue with Thais, and the menfolk in particular. However, I do give credit to people, whenever it is due, despite my personal feelings. Thai menfolk are perhaps the best behaved over-all, toward foreigners, as I have ever seen, anywhere else on the planet. You can walk the streets at night, without fear that you will be accosted, by a group of liquered-up locals, who either will rob, gang-up on you to beat you, or even kill you, just for the hell of it.

Just in case you haven't noticed, the whole world is angry. Thais display their anger with far less intensity, than people do in many First World western countries, for sure. I am not a condescending personality, nor am I big on kissing anybody's butt (except the lady who gave birth to my children, of course). However, All things considered, by comparison, the Thais are really a very cool bunch of people,

[NativeSon360]

I'm guessing that the ones that had a hard time coping at wherever they came from find it more perplexing here.....Believe in western countries around 90% of the prescribed drugs are anxiety related....Not to mention

the "self" medicating....

We'd do well to learn how to be a little less full of ourselves at times.....

Coping here does take interest and patience as we bump along....Getting upset or angry except in crisis situations makes US look bad and perplexes the Thais.....Life in Thailand can be as easy going as you decide to let it be.....

Or as stressful as you want it to be.....

Some feel helpless being stressed - some feel empowered by the result of it.....Either way it's not healthy for anyone.....The givers or the receivers.....

And it is an inherently alien concept for most Thais....

Excellent post. Thanks for sharing

[CharlieH]

flame/Off topic/responses removed

[BudRight]

I wish to draw your attention to Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, ratified by Thailand in 1967.

Article 19

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;

( For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

[TuskegeeBen]

I wish to draw your attention to Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, ratified by Thailand in 1967.

Article 19

1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.

2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.

3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:

(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;

( For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.

A ratification is worth no more than the paper it is written upon. The U.S. Constitution, and The Bill of Rights, is exemplary of that fact

[puffy]

If I invited someone to my house and I was rude to them they would have every right to criticize me.

When I am a guest at a hotel and the service is terrible I have the right to complain.

Who are you to tell people what to think and say.

I care about the human tragedies in Syria. I care about the people in Paris who died.

I care about many things that don't directly effect me, it is called being a human with the ability to think.

And sometimes I care about gross injustices that happen in Thailand.

Most people have a bit more ambition than just being alive, obviously you don't.

[TuskegeeBen]

To those who use terms like, 'the mighty farang' or, 'Thais don't need your advice' . . .a few words but first; today I spent many hours in the company of some really terrific Thai people. A plastic surgeon and his staff. They were intelligent and faultlesseley polite and warm.

We discussed Thai culture and he was at pains never to seem 'boastful' as he put it by saying anything positive about himself. He did comment in a sidaways fashion about some other Thai people who exploit foreigners and think only of money and he did refer to some 'old school' Thais who cannot move with the times. I have known him for some time and he has always impressed me with his sincerity, honesty and integrity.

Unfortunately, that is a very rare experience.

Many Thai people who are wealthy are arrogant to the point of proving themselves 'better' than the foreigners they encounter . . . unless that foreigner wields power over them in which case they are subservient and ingratiating. It is the Thai way.

Lots of poorer Thai people are warm, friendly and very genuine in their dealings but lots cannot resist trying to find ways to steal money from foreigners by dishonesty, even if it's only a little bit. That being said they are also happy to steal from their own family.

It is not for nothing that Thai people have a saying, 'when one has money, one has family'! I have never encountered the same kind of thing in the west.

Lots of Thais whose job it is to provide a service are dangerous and unreliable.

Thai people are much less able to control their emotions in my experience and what may seem a minor event, say a bus conductor asking you to move along the bus or boat or a taxi driver taking you the wrong way can very easily escalate beyond your imagination if you call them on their behaviour.

In the west there is violence of course but I certainly feel that the events leading up to it are easier for us foreigners to predict than they are in Thailand.

I also think that in many cases western men may call it quits after a blow or two have been exchanged. If you knock someone on their ass in a fair but violent exchange your opponent and you are likely to shake hands after. A Thai fella will go and get his coconut machete or pistol.

Thais practice (are forced to practice) Sam Ruam (look it up) moderating one's responses to others in respect of ultra politeness (greng jai) this tends to suppress emotional outbursts before they begin and so by adulthood most Thais have not really been able to practice moderating their anger.

In the west we are encouraged to be assertive whist remaining cool headed, calm assertiveness, Thais are not. They are either submissive or completely insensitive/aggressive.

Couple this with the Thai nature which is schooled from an early age to be submissive and arrogant in equal measure. They believe that everything Thai is the best.

Add the jealousy and sometimes contempt with which Thais who have close contact with foreigners often hod us and you have a very potent mix. Gelegnite; one shake and it's BOOM!

This kind of thing tends to happen in contexts in which Thais see us acting disrespectfully, without composure or grace with little discretion. places like Bangkok's Sukhumvit (low numbers) and Pattaya.

Starting a fight with a Thai? You better be able to finish it, is all I can say, and quickly before a mob of them attack you.

Sometimes it is the better part of valour to walk away, pay up and forget it. Sometimes one can't do that.

Trust me, poor and wealthy alike, Thais would lose absolutely no sleep whatever about killing a foreigner.

While I may be accused of generalising about an entire nation; better safe than sorry.

Once again, before the flamethrowers come out, this has been my experience.

Lots of Thai people are a delight but when they are not they are often downright dangerous and view us or each other as little more than cattle.

I also think that Thais could certainly use our advice. Most of us have lived in a pretty sophisticated political system and seen it's pitfalls and cruelties.

Take a look at what is happening here right now and you have to accept that it is little better than a banana republic, a feudal state.

Anyone who throw flames at this post, needs to return to kindergarten, then start all over again. Great post. You nailed it squarely. Thanks for

sharing your thoughts. Cheers

Edited November 27, 2015 by TuskegeeBen