SURVEY: Is Thailand prepared to effectively teach English without Foreign Teachers?

[spidermike007]

I want to hear from the 3 (so far) that voted it would be better to have just Thai teachers. Perhaps miscue on poll?

There's no doubt that Thai English teachers are, potentially, better suited to teach Thai kids English than foreign teachers. It's almost arrogant to think that native speakers of English are per definition better teachers of English. We're talking about school kids who learn pigeon English, not academics or rocket scientists.

Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves, cannot communicate with the parents (very important), do not understand the cultural and socio-economical backgrounds of the students, foreign teachers are like revolving doors go and on and on.

"Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves......."

That is a pretty sweeping condemnation is it not? Do you know all the foreign teachers in the Thai education system, or even a significant proportion of them? Or are you just taking the well worn path of assuming that anyone who chooses to teach English as a foreign language in the Thai education system must be a good for nothing sex obsessed loser?I know quite a lot of teachers. One or two are, for want of a better description, oxygen thieves, but the majority are hard working enthusiastic individuals who do their best. We (I am one) accept the hassles and the (relatively) poor salary because the job allows us to live in our country of choice, in many cases with our wives and families, and because we find it rewarding, fulfilling and actually quite an enjoyable way to live. To get a job teaching here you need, as a minimum, to have a degree and a TEFL qualification. You also need to produce the appropriate police clearance certificates.The unwashed backpacker teaching because he has run out of money, or the semi literate sexpat teaching because it gets him near the girls are largely of the past.

Having got that off my chest (I must confess it has been building up over the last few days); perhaps I can point out that most of the people teaching English here are employed to teach it as a second language, and certainly in my case with a remit of getting the children to use the theoretical language skills (grammar) and vocabulary that the Thai teachers have drummed into them, to produce and use language. In other words, getting them to speak it as a second language, not "pidgin" English.

That TEFL skill set is a very specific one, which is rare in those who are not native speakers. That is why the foreign teachers are employed. It is a skill set which a six week course is unlikely to produce, unless those attending the course are near "native speakers", however good they may be as teachers, and however good those instructing them are.

When I was at school (admittedly a long time ago) I was taught French and German by English people. I was also taught by native speaking "language assistants". That is why I speak the languages adequately if not fluently, as well as understanding the grammar. That is what Native English Speaking teachers should be doing here.

Enough, lunch break over, back to class!

Well said Mate & good on ya!

I could never teach English as a 2nd language. I would lose my patience in about 5 minutes.

Somebody needs to do it though.......I mean there is a glaring need (even though the demand/want is not there) for it. What is it the AEC/ASEAN(?) & passa Angkrit is supposed to be THE one that binds them.

I've been to 45 countries & ALWAYS find somebody that speaks English.

I can imagine a Thai person going to 45 countries & finding someone that speaks Thai in every one...ain't gonna happen.

We are quite blessed to know the international language of business (and air traffic control) as native speakers, (though those security guys at the Sydney airport had this Florida boy stymied with their accents once :=). A guy in Darwin was trying to tell me how to get a Telstra phone once (not picking on you Aussies - I love ya!).

I had to ask him to write down what he was saying. At least I understood that.

Too bad the Thai folks are not able to see the usefulness of being able to communicate with the world...yet.

It was the ultra nationalistic regime of Phibun and Pridi, starting in 1932 that appears to have started this extremely nationalistic trend, and that trend continues to today. Some other politicians along the way have exploited this. The country has become inward looking, without becoming introspective in the process, which is a volatile mix, and does not contribute to a society that is interested in learning about the world, nor its place in the world. Hence, we have a nationalism that is not based on fact, nor ones place in the world at large, and merely fiction made up by madmen politicians, bent on establishing a larger power base, by indoctrinating the masses with fiction, and hyperbole. This leads to a large degree of ignorance, and does not move the country in a forward direction, nor allow it to integrate into the world at large. The danger in all of this, is that with the 7th ASEAN charter due to come into effect on January 1st of this coming year, Thailand is expected to play a larger role in the region. Since the charter calls for more integration, the relaxation of all duties and free trade of all alcoholic beverages within all ASEAN nations, and the relaxing of visa restrictions and work permits within all ASEAN nations, Thailand is going to be in the public eye, like never before. If the Brewery owners attempt to pull stunts like they have in the past, by buying politicians and compelling them to ignore the law, Thailand runs the risk of becoming a pariah in its own neighborhood. This could be a disaster, and I doubt any politicians on the scene right now have the wisdom, nor the vision to see this, and interpret this, in advance. Since Thailand makes inferior beer, relative to it's neighbors, the level of local business would suffer, if the region opened up to free trade in the beer and liquor market. Will the beer tycoons put up a fight? You bet. Will they be allowed to get away with it? Hope not. Will the administration be wise enough to see this coming? I doubt it. Will it be fascinating to watch? You bet.

[Skywalker69]

Absolutly not.

[sanukjim]

Of course they're not ready but they're going to do it anyway.

The results will be hilarious.

In other nations( the Western and European nations) many schools successfully teach French German English Spanish,Russian.from lower ,and middle schools and university s using local teachers,so it is possible. For Thailand to do this would be impossible because of the corruption in the administrations of their school systems.You reap what you sow and since the 1930s sowing corruption reaps the same.

.

[ronwparker]

Without farang Teachers this lovely country will have even worse English teaching-most Thai graduates and teachers have very few English skills.

It is ironic that Asean has just been confirmed and the common language is....English .

Thailand already has the lowest ranking in English of all Asean countries.

A lesson in Thai logic=do the opposite of what is needed!

[sattahipchris]

Some years ago I helped my niece who was being taught English by a Thai English teacher with her English homework. I pointed out something that clearly gramatically wrong, (if I remember right the tense was incorrect) she corrected her work only to have it marked as wrong, much to her annoyance. Considering I am a native English speaker whom has studied English to A level, had numerous articles published and am educated to degree level, I wonder who was right or who was wrong..

[FangFerang]

Please note that unlike most Thai polls the numbers add up to 100%

[SantiSuk]

Sounds like opportunities for private tuition by genuine English language speakers will be on the rise. Most middle-class Thai parents aren't as daft as the education ministry thinks.

[JAG]

I often ride various busses and vans throughout Bangkok.

Whenever I am fortuante enough to have a Thai sit next to me,

I ask, "Can you speak English?"

90% of the time, the answer is either "NO!" or just silence.

(I immediately follow-up with "Poot Thai die mai?" and the

response is usually a nod in the affirmative.)

5% of the time, the answer is "Nit-Noy."

5 % of the time the answer is "Yes," and we then are

able to have a conversation in English at an Elementary School level.

Actually, since bus passengers are probably amongst the less afluent in Bangkok 5% is quite good. Maybe there are some effective TEFL teachers in the government schools?

If you assume the average London bus holds 60 people you would be unlikely to find 3 people aboard who could hold a conversation in French!

Edited November 24, 2015 by JAG

[ThaiUser]

The current result of over 92 percent of the voters showing the confidence they have in the abilities of Thais makes a gloomy reading.

I am confident that not all is lost and that change might be even liberating. But before removing foreign teachers I would start with teaching material that is used in schools to teach English. Some of the books handed to our children don’t deserve to be sold and actually should be banned from being used in our schools. It should be the foreign teachers that explain to the people responsible for the purchase of English books why these books are unacceptable as standard teaching books.

[anotheruser]

can do. tink too mut.

[wombat1943]

I have a 12 year old Thai stepson, learning English from a Thai teacher in school. Have looked at his exercise books - many questions he has answered incorrectly have been ticked as correct by his teacher. For example - "These are fruits. Can I eat - - - - -" Son answered "it". Ticked as correct. Correct is obviously "them". And many others.

[Credo]

Thailand should be moving in the direction of having Thai nationals do much of the teaching, but I doubt that they are anywhere close enough to successfully accomplishing this goal. It needs to be a progression and a gradual handover.

The goal has to be to be effectively teaching English. The goal should not be clouded by nationality, per se. If and when they have teachers who can do it, then start handing it over. Until that is accomplished, they will need to have native and near-native speakers do the teaching.

In the interim, there should be oversight by foreign teachers and the use of audio-visual materials to supplement deficiencies in the curriculum.

[yellowboat]

When learning an Asian language, we were taught by an Asian. China sent legions of teachers to Thailand to teach Chinese. I have been told that there is a greater understanding of Chinese than English in Thailand, so are there many Thais teaching Chinese ? Sadly, this all just shows the state of mind in Thailand today; no interest in logic or reason. Wish they had some sort of philosophical teachings to follow.

[krismagi]

Of course they're not ready but they're going to do it anyway.

The results will be hilarious.

great... whooppp deee dooo... so far if you speak english a s a thai. you already have a big head. you already speak english loud enough to let others thais around you know how very special you are. you already have a great job, at a salary rate which is waaaaaaaaay too much for such an UNSKILLED person you are. Listen, a thai content writter wanted to write content for me for 150USD a article(global rate was 5USD), she spoke ok. you know like a 14year old British/wales kid. Hardly understandable, but english none the less. Every single thai out there that could even fart in english is going to want better salary now for money they dont deserve, through skill they dont have. ... ENGLISH ISNT A SKILL. its a tool.

Im going to bust out laughing too... I am thai, genetically. (im a west coast kinnda guy) so ican and will say this. THais dont deserve being led by a good person. thailand should just succumb to the rule of chinese slavery and get it over with. LEARN CHINESE cause all the people who speak english... have been SCAMMED, LIED TO, CHEATED, PUSHED OFF BUILDINGS, MURDERED FOR FUN and there are waaaaaaay better places to visit without being KILLED. THAIS dont care about english, its a joke to them to use to scam tourist.

LEARN CHINESE THAILAND cause you suck at english... its been like.... 50 FKN YEARS of crap english. just like the pot, it hasnt changed since the vietnam war.

What on earth have you got against 14 years old British/wales kid? Huh? Had a bad experience in Cardiff one night? I can understand the statement if you have.

Clearly not a native of the British Isles otherwise you would understand that the Welsh are British ...... too much pot, not enough sense :-/

[Thai at Heart]

I think it stands to reason that Thailand does have to stand on it's own 2 feet one day when it comes to educating its own people. I suppose the first step is to "Teach the Teacher" English. Slowly they can progress into teaching the lower classes first then go from their.

But the writing on the wall I see coming here soon is replacing the Native Born English Teachers with lower paid Foreign Teachers, like ones from the Philippines. The quality of English is not as good but there is no doubt there wages will be lower, there hours longer, and the accommodations not as nice.

I personally seen this happen in Poland, when it came out of Communism. By early 1990's very few people spoke English, except at tourist locations. But by then English became very fashionable, and everyone wanted to learn. Many Private English Schools opened up successfully with Native Speaking English Teachers. Teach the Teacher started then and was handled by the British Counsel. English Lesson slowly became part of the early grades in school. By the late 1990's most Polish Teenagers could speak some English, even when there parents couldn't, and some pretty good. Now they employ all Polish Teacher to teach English.

This is quite funny, because in the private sector in the UK, they tout the fact that the languages are taught by native speakers.

Why would I want to learn French from a British person speaking French.

I await the rest of the world appointing farangs to teach Thai...... I mean if Thais are the best equipped to teach English, presumably this goes both ways?

[Lorn]

You you, satop satop, Thai good for sapeak ungit, no ploblem, you think to mutt, now satuden back to wyolin lesson.

So my wife has great English, but as for teaching anything but the very basic stuff, no. Now these blokes want to have 500 teachers to learn English and then to teach it to Thai students ok, but at what level??? how many teachers out there have already been through this exercise and had great success?

Can you please stop posting from such a position of ignorance? And how do you get likes for this drivel? They are not teaching 500 teachers English. They are teaching 500 Teachers, who are already at B2/C1 level, new methods for teaching English. The best of these teachers are then going to be selected to pass on what they have learnt to the next group of teachers at a later course. All of the teachers who went on the course are going to be monitored to see if they apply what they have learnt in their school classes. The success of the course will be evaluated based on that.

[bbbbooboo]

For about 90% of rural Thai speaking/learning English probably isn't a high priority, so this new policy may not change very much in the Thai experience

[Gutterboy]

Does Thailand even know what "prepared" means?

[BlindMagician]

Within ASEAN, Thailand had the highest budget for education (correct in 2013, not sure about today), but during the years of such a high budget, it had slipped down the ASEAN education league table for nations. Thailand English language ability is also ranked low in ASEAN.

The current circus bunch have most competently proven their incompetence at managing pretty much everything. The country would be much better off if the circus were kept in a locked room, fed non stop (fake) platitudes to keep them happy, fed information about the nation, let them make decisions, but when the decision comes out of the room, simply take the opposite of that decision and implement that instead.

[eliotness]

The current result of over 92 percent of the voters showing the confidence they have in the abilities of Thais makes a gloomy reading.

I am confident that not all is lost and that change might be even liberating. But before removing foreign teachers I would start with teaching material that is used in schools to teach English. Some of the books handed to our children dont deserve to be sold and actually should be banned from being used in our schools. It should be the foreign teachers that explain to the people responsible for the purchase of English books why these books are unacceptable as standard teaching books.

Absolutely spot-on. At my school there are text books for levels 1,2 and 4. These books are way too advanced for children in a rural school. Even the level 1 book can't be understood by most kids in level 6. There are books back in England for junior school kids which would be more suitable for senior school here.

[cnx355]

When I wanted to learn basic Thai language, I was looking for a native speaker and not another foreigner. The same way , I think that for Thai to learn spoken English they must interact with native speakers.

I guess Japan and Korea also employ native English teachers, so they must have good reason to proceed this way..

Most Thai that speak and write English in a practical way are in my opinion, those that studied or worked abroad and those rich enough that travel a lot and use English for business or sightseeing.

[JAG]

The current result of over 92 percent of the voters showing the confidence they have in the abilities of Thais makes a gloomy reading.

I am confident that not all is lost and that change might be even liberating. But before removing foreign teachers I would start with teaching material that is used in schools to teach English. Some of the books handed to our children dont deserve to be sold and actually should be banned from being used in our schools. It should be the foreign teachers that explain to the people responsible for the purchase of English books why these books are unacceptable as standard teaching books.

Absolutely spot-on. At my school there are text books for levels 1,2 and 4. These books are way too advanced for children in a rural school. Even the level 1 book can't be understood by most kids in level 6. There are books back in England for junior school kids which would be more suitable for senior school here.

Ah the textbooks... I don't think I have seen a textbook yet that even begins to be an aide to learning to speak the language. They are without exception dire.

I am sure that the " fringe benefits" for the person placing the order is the driving force behind the purchases!

Mind you there is also an element of " catch 22" if the person deciding on the textbooks doesn't speak English!

[richard10365]

With foreign teachers from the west Thailand has very low English ability. I think what is really happening is they are clearing out the western English teachers so they can hire the cheaper ASEAN teachers.

[sanukjim]

I know many bar and restaurant locals that read,write and understand the concepts of German,English Russian,French,and other languages.Most of them learned it from their costumers out of necessity in their businesses.Many of their instructors were Europeans and Americans untrained but educated in the language.Most any foreign teachers teaching subjects in their own language would be far and above Thai teachers.

[RapidMethod]

Thailand should be moving in the direction of having Thai nationals do much of the teaching, but I doubt that they are anywhere close enough to successfully accomplishing this goal. It needs to be a progression and a gradual handover.

The goal has to be to be effectively teaching English. The goal should not be clouded by nationality, per se. If and when they have teachers who can do it, then start handing it over. Until that is accomplished, they will need to have native and near-native speakers do the teaching. In the interim, there should be oversight by foreign teachers and the use of audio-visual materials to supplement deficiencies in the curriculum.

You've hit the nail on the head, Credo. I'm nonplussed at how badly languages are taught in general. I'm a foreigner and I teach Thai (and I'm not even all that fluent to boot)! Yet I'm arguably one of the most effective Thai teachers anywhere. How is that?

It's because I understand exactly what it is I need to know as a foreigner in order to be able to read, speak and understand Thai effectively and efficiently. I've made a study of it and devised the 'Rapid Method' as a result.

Based on this approach - and it almost entirely depends on the methodology used, not necessarily the linguistic competence of the teacher - Thai teachers should be able to teach English.

I'm appalled at the shamefully poor quality of material available for teaching English. Nearly all the English language learning books in the stores are riddled with errors. I've also met several university professors of English who speak and write appallingly.Here are some examples (from published books and professors of English): "he used to be shot by a gun", "the guard has stinking hands", "a boyfriend has a mole", "I sits on a chair", "she has two dozen of pencils". Granted, there are some sentences that are linguistically correct, but nobody talks like that ("he was shot by a gun", "the guard's hands stink"...).

IMHO, the number one requirement is to develop appropriate language learning material that can essentially be used for self study. That is the key. You can't really learn a language just by attending classes because the real, effective and long-lasting learning happens at home, by working through the material by yourself - using flash cards to memorize vocabulary, speaking phrases & sentence patterns out loud several times till you can say them quickly and clearly and accurately, reading stories written in a conversational & colloquial style, and listening drills (listening to the same study material while following the text karaoke-style).

I'm impressed with the British Council for their extensive reach in teaching English throughout the world, but their focus is on academically- and linguistically-correct English. The TEFL programs do not teach teachers how to teach (other than lesson plans and classroom management), there's an unnecessary emphasis on grammar and sentence analysis. I read Thai, but I haven't bothered to learn the names of the letters in the alphabet. I see kids who can recite the English alphabet forwards and backwards, but can barely read or pronounce words like "cat" (should be pronounced "sat", right? because "c" is the letter "see") or "not" (should rhyme with "note" because "o" is the letter "oh"?) or "plate", let alone “stew” or "stay" or "sky", etc.

There are a number of English programs devised to be facilitated by non-English-speaking teachers, and they all work on the principle of playing games, reading stories, singing songs by following audio-visual material that the teacher/facilitator manages. She doesn't read the story, for instance, she plays the audio clip (which she might slow down at first) and everyone follows the text (or pictures) in the book. Then the kids memorize the story (or song)... and only then do they actually read it. The teacher might be learning English at the same time, but usually she knows just enough to be one step ahead of the kids. Everyone listens to and mimics the audio, not the teacher (whose pronunciation might be terrible anyway) – she might only read/sing along with the kids.

The teacher's job therefore is not to teach English but to navigate through the (self-study) material with the kids based on her observations of their progress and difficulties (very Montessori in approach).

And so, quite simply, the teachers only need training in how to effectively use the material, in which case native English speakers are surplus to requirement! Indeed, English-speaking teachers are often incapable of teaching English effectively and can actually confuse their students, primarily because we take so much for granted that seems obvious to us. We use tones and stress in English that most of us aren't aware of, we don't always read from left to right (we often have to jump back to change a vowel sound as in "plane"), we don't pronounce words as they are written - even taking the bizarre spelling of English words into account (we nearly always say "gonna" instead of "going to" for instance), and we seem not to notice how people with different accents completely change the vowel sounds (e.g. people from the midlands in England say "up" with a short "oo" sound, "oop", and say "her" for "hair", not to mention how differently Americans sound compared to British speakers).

[smotherb]

I don't think there will be a difference, as long as the student don't see why they need to speak it.

They has to learn why they have to speak English and I think this is the missing brick

In our part of the world we don't use native English speakers as teachers

You can pull a horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink

It is apparent your comments about not using NES teachers is true.

[crazydrummerpauly]

No, this will not work.

They may as well give up teaching English.

Most Thai English teachers do not know the language well themselves!

The current system of hireing anyone who can speak English to teach the languaage, is a poor system as well.

To teach English, they need to spend the money needed to hire qualified English teachers who are actually teachers.

If you only offer $1000 USD a month for teaching, you will only get unqualified "backpackers" and retired people who need a little extra money.

Most teachers in the world are underpaid as it is.

Why would any come to Thailand to work for a fraction of the low pay they earn now?

Um now let me think...ah how about cheap sex, cheap beer, non-stop sunshine....no, that couldn't be it...haha.

[smotherb]

A better approach may be to use qualified English teachers--degrees and experience in education and English--to teach the Thai teachers; then, when the Thai teachers are qualified in English, teach all subjects in English after say the sixth year of school. Foreign English teachers could continue to teach Thai kids until the Thai teachers are ready--yeah, that may be quite a while. However, learning English is difficult with one hour or so a week, so many more hours of lessons are needed.

Consequently, Thailand actually needs more foreign and local teachers; if they are serious about their children learning English. They need to increase the number of English teaching hours a week for each child and for each teacher to enable them to learn English. Obviously, more foreign teachers will be needed to continue teaching the children and the Thai teachers, and more Thai teachers will be needed to cover regular classes for the Thai teachers learning English.

There appear to be numerous Thai education graduates who cannot pass the Thai teachers' exam. Fine, use them as teachers' assistants to cover the regular classes and give the regular teachers time for the English classes--again, more than an hour a week of lessons is needed. That way the assistant teachers can gain teaching experience and hopefully pass the exam; and the current Thai teachers can learn English and oversee their teaching assistants to achieve some level of teaching competence.

Only through learning English, being taught in English, and using English, will the Thais become English speakers.

[crazydrummerpauly]

I wouldn't even grace this survey with an tick in either box. No sane country in the world has ever thought they could teach a foreign language without native speakers in the class - end of !

[smotherb]

No, this will not work.

They may as well give up teaching English.

Most Thai English teachers do not know the language well themselves!

The current system of hireing anyone who can speak English to teach the languaage, is a poor system as well.

To teach English, they need to spend the money needed to hire qualified English teachers who are actually teachers.

If you only offer $1000 USD a month for teaching, you will only get unqualified "backpackers" and retired people who need a little extra money.

Most teachers in the world are underpaid as it is.

Why would any come to Thailand to work for a fraction of the low pay they earn now?

Um now let me think...ah how about cheap sex, cheap beer, non-stop sunshine....no, that couldn't be it...haha.

I'm from Florida, where the beer is cheaper and the sun shines; however, I still find reasons.