SURVEY: Is Thailand prepared to effectively teach English without Foreign Teachers?

[toybits]

Thais first have to accept that English proficiency is sorely lacking before they can start improving. What are the chances of that happening? Zilch! Nada! Impossible! Impossível! Невозможно Αδύνατος 不可能 haiwezekani.

[ChrisY1]

No, this will not work.

They may as well give up teaching English.

Most Thai English teachers do not know the language well themselves!

The current system of hireing anyone who can speak English to teach the languaage, is a poor system as well.

To teach English, they need to spend the money needed to hire qualified English teachers who are actually teachers.

If you only offer $1000 USD a month for teaching, you will only get unqualified "backpackers" and retired people who need a little extra money.

Most teachers in the world are underpaid as it is.

Why would any come to Thailand to work for a fraction of the low pay they earn now?

Philipinos are now just about the prefered teachers as they're cheap

[Artisi]

Having worked in Hong Kong, Thailand, China, Vietnam, Philippines and Cambodia, the only country where I had to learn the local language to be able to do my job efficiently was Thailand. Q.E.D.

Welcome to Thailand where Thai is the national language - so does speaking Thai surprise you. Edited November 23, 2015 by Artisi

[JAG]

I want to hear from the 3 (so far) that voted it would be better to have just Thai teachers. Perhaps miscue on poll?

There's no doubt that Thai English teachers are, potentially, better suited to teach Thai kids English than foreign teachers. It's almost arrogant to think that native speakers of English are per definition better teachers of English. We're talking about school kids who learn pigeon English, not academics or rocket scientists.

Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves, cannot communicate with the parents (very important), do not understand the cultural and socio-economical backgrounds of the students, foreign teachers are like revolving doors go and on and on.

"Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves......."

That is a pretty sweeping condemnation is it not? Do you know all the foreign teachers in the Thai education system, or even a significant proportion of them? Or are you just taking the well worn path of assuming that anyone who chooses to teach English as a foreign language in the Thai education system must be a good for nothing sex obsessed loser?I know quite a lot of teachers. One or two are, for want of a better description, oxygen thieves, but the majority are hard working enthusiastic individuals who do their best. We (I am one) accept the hassles and the (relatively) poor salary because the job allows us to live in our country of choice, in many cases with our wives and families, and because we find it rewarding, fulfilling and actually quite an enjoyable way to live. To get a job teaching here you need, as a minimum, to have a degree and a TEFL qualification. You also need to produce the appropriate police clearance certificates.The unwashed backpacker teaching because he has run out of money, or the semi literate sexpat teaching because it gets him near the girls are largely of the past.

Having got that off my chest (I must confess it has been building up over the last few days); perhaps I can point out that most of the people teaching English here are employed to teach it as a second language, and certainly in my case with a remit of getting the children to use the theoretical language skills (grammar) and vocabulary that the Thai teachers have drummed into them, to produce and use language. In other words, getting them to speak it as a second language, not "pidgin" English.

That TEFL skill set is a very specific one, which is rare in those who are not native speakers. That is why the foreign teachers are employed. It is a skill set which a six week course is unlikely to produce, unless those attending the course are near "native speakers", however good they may be as teachers, and however good those instructing them are.

When I was at school (admittedly a long time ago) I was taught French and German by English people. I was also taught by native speaking "language assistants". That is why I speak the languages adequately if not fluently, as well as understanding the grammar. That is what Native English Speaking teachers should be doing here.

Enough, lunch break over, back to class!

Edited November 23, 2015 by JAG

[Siamwhiteelephant]

If The Ministry of Education is so concerned about the cost of financing foreign English teachers’ salaries, how about adopting the govt.’s initiative on curbing corruption instead? Where’s some of that allocated money going which never reaches the teachers’ pockets? Some say, in school administrators and Thai teachers’ pockets. To add insult to injury, in the 9 years I’ve been here, foreign teachers’ salaries haven’t risen. One foreign teacher, who’s been here over 20 years, told me they haven’t gone up since 20 years ago.

Also, instead, it should focus on developing core curricula with modern methodology intent on creating the basis for a good learning environment in the classroom and a convincing rationale for learning English. Meet the students’ learner needs they’re not conscious of. Good education drives forward development of a country, which in turn can create wealth to invest back into education..I read somewhere that per head, Thailand is the second biggest spender on education in the world, but the results of learner success don’t match with that.

So, that would suggest the way the budget for education be better managed than quibbling over the cost of foreign English teacher salaries which don’t rise.

[Jeremy50]

Having worked on 2 education reform projects in different countries, one was in Malaysia, I do not understand what the government is thinking. Both of the projects I worked on lasted for years. Reforming education is a very slow process. The first project, in the UAE, lasted nearly 6 years and the Malaysia project was 5 years. This looks like a nod to reform but it will not show any results.

If they are serious and want to improve the level of English in Thailand they need to employ well qualified people, regardless of nationality, to go in to schools and work with the teachers on a 1-2-1 basis to improve their level of English and to change their practice. This takes time and money.

I suspect that the British Council will deliver the CELTA course to the 500, this will take 4 weeks and the last 2 weeks they will train them how to deliver the course to others. However, in order to complete the CELTA successfully the participants need a good level of English - C1 or upper intermediate (in old money), and Thailand does not appear, from my experience to have enough teachers of this level.

Can Thai teachers deliver successful English instruction? Yes, but not at the moment. There would need to be a monumental shift in the attitude towards English, and education in general, for it to be successful.

The CELTA is a six week highly intensive high pressure course requiring a full day's studying and teaching practice followed by hours of homework each evening. A CELTA group would have to have no more than 10 students in it, with 2 full-time tutors involved with those students over the 6 weeks. The cost in the UK is about 2000 pounds. It is also geared towards teaching English to highly motivated adult learners. Therefore completely unsuitable for this task.

[MockingJay]

[jaywalker]

It is ludicrous that anybody voted yes to this poll.

I guess the trolls will never stop will they?

[spidermike007]

An ignorant policy thought up by a xenophobic man child. Of course it will not work. Foreigners should he proved, valued, cherished, honored and respected for their contribution to Thai society by teaching competent English. Most Thais cannot. Ignoramus policy.

[Dap]

Option # 1 - That ship sailed long ago.

Option # 2 - Should have read - "No, the level of English will deteriorate (even further) without foreign teachers."

Edited November 23, 2015 by Dap

[jaywalker]

I want to hear from the 3 (so far) that voted it would be better to have just Thai teachers. Perhaps miscue on poll?

There's no doubt that Thai English teachers are, potentially, better suited to teach Thai kids English than foreign teachers. It's almost arrogant to think that native speakers of English are per definition better teachers of English. We're talking about school kids who learn pigeon English, not academics or rocket scientists.

Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves, cannot communicate with the parents (very important), do not understand the cultural and socio-economical backgrounds of the students, foreign teachers are like revolving doors go and on and on.

"Foreign teachers have difficulties adapting themselves......."

That is a pretty sweeping condemnation is it not? Do you know all the foreign teachers in the Thai education system, or even a significant proportion of them? Or are you just taking the well worn path of assuming that anyone who chooses to teach English as a foreign language in the Thai education system must be a good for nothing sex obsessed loser?I know quite a lot of teachers. One or two are, for want of a better description, oxygen thieves, but the majority are hard working enthusiastic individuals who do their best. We (I am one) accept the hassles and the (relatively) poor salary because the job allows us to live in our country of choice, in many cases with our wives and families, and because we find it rewarding, fulfilling and actually quite an enjoyable way to live. To get a job teaching here you need, as a minimum, to have a degree and a TEFL qualification. You also need to produce the appropriate police clearance certificates.The unwashed backpacker teaching because he has run out of money, or the semi literate sexpat teaching because it gets him near the girls are largely of the past.

Having got that off my chest (I must confess it has been building up over the last few days); perhaps I can point out that most of the people teaching English here are employed to teach it as a second language, and certainly in my case with a remit of getting the children to use the theoretical language skills (grammar) and vocabulary that the Thai teachers have drummed into them, to produce and use language. In other words, getting them to speak it as a second language, not "pidgin" English.

That TEFL skill set is a very specific one, which is rare in those who are not native speakers. That is why the foreign teachers are employed. It is a skill set which a six week course is unlikely to produce, unless those attending the course are near "native speakers", however good they may be as teachers, and however good those instructing them are.

When I was at school (admittedly a long time ago) I was taught French and German by English people. I was also taught by native speaking "language assistants". That is why I speak the languages adequately if not fluently, as well as understanding the grammar. That is what Native English Speaking teachers should be doing here.

Enough, lunch break over, back to class!

Well said Mate & good on ya!

I could never teach English as a 2nd language. I would lose my patience in about 5 minutes.

Somebody needs to do it though.......I mean there is a glaring need (even though the demand/want is not there) for it. What is it the AEC/ASEAN(?) & passa Angkrit is supposed to be THE one that binds them.

I've been to 45 countries & ALWAYS find somebody that speaks English.

I can imagine a Thai person going to 45 countries & finding someone that speaks Thai in every one...ain't gonna happen.

We are quite blessed to know the international language of business (and air traffic control) as native speakers, (though those security guys at the Sydney airport had this Florida boy stymied with their accents once :=). A guy in Darwin was trying to tell me how to get a Telstra phone once (not picking on you Aussies - I love ya!).

I had to ask him to write down what he was saying. At least I understood that.

Too bad the Thai folks are not able to see the usefulness of being able to communicate with the world...yet.

Edited November 23, 2015 by jaywalker

[simon43]

Post this same question to the Thais - Can a Brit effectively teach Thai to his countrymen in the UK?

An interesting question. I think if this question were asked to the MoE, they would absolutely refuse to agree that a Brit could teach Thai language to his fellow countrymen.

I really would be interested to hear Thais' opinion on this question.

[biker Bob]

I know many excellent Thai english speakers sadly none of them are or would be teachers!

Actually some bargirls Speak much better English than Thai English teachers... so I am reliably told

It's true

[Seastallion]

Post this same question to the Thais - Can a Brit effectively teach Thai to his countrymen in the UK?

Why not? Fluency is not the main goal of ESL (or TSL) teaching. Fluency is what you pick up yourself after you reach a certain basic level.

Only natives who never mastered a foreign language would not understand this.

Then all they need is Google translation...

Or Bing.

RUBBISH. Both apps are utterly useless.

[sead]

As i see it. a good start would be to not dub, but text the english speaking movies and series on television. To have english text on thai movies/ series would also let them and us foreigners learn the spelling and grammars more quickly.

Any grammatical errors are a gift from me to you..

[freebyrd]

Having worked in Hong Kong, Thailand, China, Vietnam, Philippines and Cambodia, the only country where I had to learn the local language to be able to do my job efficiently was Thailand. Q.E.D.

Welcome to Thailand where Thai is the national language - so does speaking Thai surprise you.

Thai isn't going to get anyone very far in those other countries that I've worked in. English is after all the international language of business. I'm in Cambodia, a country that the Thais look down on, however the standard of English here is infinitely better than in Thailand. Thailand aspires to be the hub of everything but not good English it seems. I had to go with one of my guys recently to meet with a Thai designer working on a project for a client here. He spoke very little English and no Khmer, so I had to translate. If they are going to cross borders they need to catch up don't you think?

[Raybangkok]

It is the British Council doing the teaching what a good money earner. Who is going to assess the teachers? The British Council? Are they going to give a negative response? I doubt if they want the flaws in their teaching methods to come to light. Visit some of my students who learnt with them with disastrous results.

[williamgeorgeallen]

seems to be mostly the bargirls who speak the best english, especially if a sponsor has given her a stint in a western country. surely there must be some way to harness this free learning system. compulsory 1 year stint with a ferang tirak, then the language skills can be passed onto her thai boyfriend or husband. my girl speaks very good english and she did not do any english lessons in school.

[willyumiii]

No, this will not work.

They may as well give up teaching English.

Most Thai English teachers do not know the language well themselves!

The current system of hireing anyone who can speak English to teach the languaage, is a poor system as well.

To teach English, they need to spend the money needed to hire qualified English teachers who are actually teachers.

If you only offer $1000 USD a month for teaching, you will only get unqualified "backpackers" and retired people who need a little extra money.

Most teachers in the world are underpaid as it is.

Why would any come to Thailand to work for a fraction of the low pay they earn now?

Philipinos are now just about the prefered teachers as they're cheap

This is true.

But English is their second language and they make and teach many errors.

Example: Rinocerous is pronounced " Ree nos er us,

More than one child are "childrens"

Here is an example of writtten English from a "Lead English teacher" from the Philipines. :

Could this possibsbly have been a quote from Victor Hugo?

Again, hireing inexpensive "teachers" is not going to helpThai students learn the English language.

Edited November 23, 2015 by willyumiii

[kaorop]

A lot of vainglorious posts here about the over exaggerated importance of perfect BBC-like English. This discussion is not about the language , it's about instruction. Get off your high horses.

So you set the agenda here?, okay right got it.

Hey listen up everybody, "SoilSpoil" is the boss here and we all need to follow his/her lead.

Talk about high horse

[ukrules]

While they're changing the rules they should also remove the minimum salary exemption required for work permits to be issued to foreign teachers.

From what I understand the minimum salary is set based on the foreigners nationality. Unless they're going to be a teacher which is quite obviously regarded as a lowly profession as this exemption allows them to be paid less.

[Thai at Heart]

The concept isn't wrong, it's just they aren't even at a basic average level nationwide for english yet. This change will only make a very very poor effort even worse.

I just don't get it. Why are Thais, on average, incapable of learning a second language?

Edited November 23, 2015 by Thai at Heart

[GOLDBUGGY]

I think it stands to reason that Thailand does have to stand on it's own 2 feet one day when it comes to educating its own people. I suppose the first step is to "Teach the Teacher" English. Slowly they can progress into teaching the lower classes first then go from their.

But the writing on the wall I see coming here soon is replacing the Native Born English Teachers with lower paid Foreign Teachers, like ones from the Philippines. The quality of English is not as good but there is no doubt there wages will be lower, there hours longer, and the accommodations not as nice.

I personally seen this happen in Poland, when it came out of Communism. By early 1990's very few people spoke English, except at tourist locations. But by then English became very fashionable, and everyone wanted to learn. Many Private English Schools opened up successfully with Native Speaking English Teachers. Teach the Teacher started then and was handled by the British Counsel. English Lesson slowly became part of the early grades in school. By the late 1990's most Polish Teenagers could speak some English, even when there parents couldn't, and some pretty good. Now they employ all Polish Teacher to teach English.

[retarius]

The standard of English even with English speakers is appalling....I don't see how it can improve without them. And furthermore the results of the testing show that out of the thousands of English speakers in Thai schools all but 6 of the 'best' teachers failed to speak at close to fluency.

[Echo Tango]

The other ASEAN countries are going to bitch-slap Thailand and eat its lunch! Thailand isn't 'in-it-to-win-it!'

Edited November 23, 2015 by Echo Tango

[rgraham]

This could be a new draw for tourists, should be quite entertaining!

[Lupatria]

[rozand]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amy-chavez/what-asia-can-learn-from-_b_4572991.html

[HannahD]

Perhaps this is simply step 1 in the conversion of learning English as a lingua franca to learning Chinese for the same purpose. If present trends continue (always a difficult thing to predict) Thailand will be over run with millions and millions of Chinese who will be whisked via high speed rail to Vientiane then taxi across the bridge to Thailand. No need to expand the airports.

[ccarbaugh]

I often ride various busses and vans throughout Bangkok.

Whenever I am fortuante enough to have a Thai sit next to me,

I ask, "Can you speak English?"

90% of the time, the answer is either "NO!" or just silence.

(I immediately follow-up with "Poot Thai die mai?" and the

response is usually a nod in the affirmative.)

5% of the time, the answer is "Nit-Noy."

5 % of the time the answer is "Yes," and we then are

able to have a conversation in English at an Elementary School level.