Turkey 'shoots down' warplane near Syrian-Turkish border

[webfact]

Military plane shot down, crashes near Syrian-Turkish border

TURKEY has reportedly shot down a warplane near the Turkish-Syrian border.

A Turkish military official said the military plane was brought down after it violated Turkish airspace, according to reports.

It is not yet clear to which country the jet belonged, Turkish private broadcaster Haberturk TV reports.

Source: http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/military-plane-shot-down-crashes-near-syrianturkish-border/news-story/02905f7e0d3270c4410d5de31722b785


-- News.com.au 2015-11-24

====================================

Turkey shoots down Russian jet it says violated its airspace
By JIM HEINTZ and SUZAN FRASER

MOSCOW (AP) — Turkey shot down a Russian warplane on Tuesday that it said ignored repeated warnings and crossed into its airspace from Syria, killing at least one of the two pilots in a long-feared escalation in tensions between Russia and NATO. Russian President Vladimir Putin denounced what he called a "stab in the back" and warned of "significant consequences."

The shoot down — the first time in half a century that a NATO member has downed a Russian plane — prompted an emergency meeting of the alliance. The incident highlighted the chaotic complexity of Syria's civil war, where multiple groups with clashing alliances are fighting on the ground and the sky is crowded with aircraft bombing various targets.

"As we have repeatedly made clear we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally, Turkey," NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told a news conference after the meeting of the alliance's decision-making North Atlantic Council, called at Turkey's request.

The pilots of the downed Su-24 ejected, but one was killed by Syrian rebel fire from the ground as he parachuted to Earth, said the Russian general staff, insisting the Russian jet had been in Syrian airspace at the time. One of two helicopters sent to the crash site to search for survivors was also hit by rebel fire, killing one serviceman and forcing the chopper to make an emergency landing, the military said.

Stoltenberg urged "calm and de-escalation" and renewed contacts between Moscow and Ankara. Russia has long been at odds with NATO, which it accuses of encroaching on Russia's borders, as well as with Turkey's determination to oust Syrian President Bashar Assad, a longtime Moscow ally.

In Washington, President Barack Obama said Turkey "has a right to defend its territory and its airspace."

At a news conference with French President Francois Hollande, he said the incident underscored the "ongoing problem" with Russia's military operations in Syria, where the Russians have been targeting groups near the Turkish border. Calling Russia an "outlier" in the global fight against the Islamic State group, Obama said that if Moscow were to concentrate its airstrikes on IS targets, mistakes "would be less likely to occur."

On Sept. 30, Russia began a campaign of massive airstrikes in Syria, which it says are aimed at destroying fighters of the Islamic State group but which Western critics contend are bolstering Assad's forces.

Before Tuesday's incident, Russia and the West appeared to be moving toward an understanding of their common strategic goal of eradicating IS, which gained momentum after the Nov. 13 attacks in Paris, as well as the Oct. 31 bombing of a Russian airliner over Egypt's Sinai desert. The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for both attacks.

Turkey said its fighter pilots acted after two Russian Su-24 bombers ignored numerous warnings that they were nearing and then entering Turkish airspace. In a letter to the U.N. Security Council and Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, Turkey said the Russian warplanes violated its airspace "to a depth of 1.36 miles and 1.15 miles ... for 17 seconds" just after 9:24 a.m.

It said one of the planes then left Turkish airspace and the other one was fired at by Turkish F-16s "in accordance with the rules of engagement" and crashed on the Syrian side of the border.

Russia insisted the plane stayed over Syria, where it was supporting ground action by Syrian troops against rebels. Rebel forces fired at the two parachuting pilots as they descended, and one died, said Jahed Ahmad, a spokesman for the 10th Coast Division rebel group. The fate of the second pilot was not immediately known.

A visibly angry Putin denounced what he called a "stab in the back by the terrorists' accomplices" and warned of "significant consequences" for Russian-Turkish relations. Hours later Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov cancelled a planned visit to Turkey on Wednesday.

Russia "will never tolerate such atrocities as happened today and we hope that the international community will find the strength to join forces and fight this evil," Putin said.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu insisted his country had the right to take "all kinds of measures" against border violations, and called on the international community to work toward "extinguishing the fire that is burning in Syria."

But despite the harsh words, some analysts believe that Russia and Turkey have reasons not to let the incident escalate, because of economic and energy ties and their common opposition to IS.

"Relations have been very strained between Russia and Turkey of late, so Moscow will be trying its utmost to contain the damage this might cause," said Natasha Kuhrt, a lecturer in international peace and security at King's College London.

A Turkish military statement said the Russian plane entered Turkish airspace over the town of Yayladagi, in Hatay province. Turkish officials released what they said was the radar image of the path the Russian plane took, showing it flying across a stretch of Turkish territory in the country's southernmost tip.

Col. Steve Warren, spokesman for the U.S. military in Baghdad, said the U.S. heard communication between Turkish and Russian pilots and could confirm that Turkish pilots issued 10 verbal warnings before the plane was shot down.

A U.S. defense official in Washington said the Russian plane flew across a 2-mile section of Turkish airspace before it was shot down, meaning it was in Turkish skies for only a matter of seconds. The official, who was not authorized to discuss details of the incident, spoke on condition of anonymity.

Turkey has voiced concern over Russia's bombing of ethnic Turkmen areas in Syria and complained that the Russian operations have complicated the possibility of creating a safe zone in northern Syria to protect civilians, as well as moderate rebels fighting Assad.

Syrian Turkmen are Syrian citizens of Turkish ethnicity who have lived in Syria since Ottoman times and have coexisted with Syrian Arabs for hundreds of years. They were among the first to take up arms against Syrian government forces, as Turkey lent its support to rebels seeking to topple Assad.

In late 2012, they united under the Syrian Turkmen Assembly, a coalition of Turkmen parties which represents Syrian Turkmens in the Western-backed Syrian National Coalition opposition group. The military wing of the assembly is called the Syrian Turkmen Brigades and aims to protect Turkmen areas from government forces and the Islamic State group.

Turkey has vowed to support the Syrian Turkmen and President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Tuesday criticized Russian actions in the Turkmen regions, saying there were no Islamic State group fighters in the area.

Turkey has complained repeatedly that Russian planes supporting Assad are straying across the border. On Friday, Turkey summoned the Russian ambassador demanding that Russia stop operations in the Turkmen region.

Last month, Turkish jets shot down an unidentified drone that it said had violated Turkey's airspace.

The country changed its rules of engagement a few years ago after Syria shot down a Turkish plane. According to the new rules, Turkey said it would consider all "elements" approaching from Syria an enemy threat and would act accordingly.

Following earlier accusations of Russian intrusion into Turkish airspace, the U.S. European Command on Nov. 6 deployed six U.S. Air Force F-15 fighters from their base in Britain to Incirlik Air Base in Turkey to help the NATO-member country secure its skies.

___

Fraser reported from Ankara, Turkey. Nataliya Vasilyeva in Moscow, Robert Burns in Washington, Bassem Mroue in Beirut, John-Thor Dahlburg in Brussels and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2015-11-25

[jpinx]

I didn't see any parachute

[Gulfsailor]

Confirmed Russian plane shot down by Turkish F16. One pilot captured by Syrian rebels. In the meantime heavy fighting apparently between Russian rescue and rebels on the ground.

Real time updates on that Twitter account.

[dabhand]

Now being reported as a Russian plane and Russia are claiming it was flying over Syria when shot down. Both pilots are OK.

Turkey will no doubt be looking to NATO for support now.

[webfact]

MOSCOW (AP) - Russian news agencies: Defense Ministry says Russian jet downed over Turkey near Syrian border.

[webfact]

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Turkey says it warned Russian plane several times before shooting it down.

[khwaibah]

Russia just got its arse flamed.

[Walter Travolta]

That's another turkey that will be getting roasted this Christmas

[Andaman Al]

And this Gentlemen is exactly the type of sequence of events that will start world war 3 !

Just catching up now. Are the Russian pilots caught by rebels/ISIS, is that report true? I hope they do not publicly harm these pilots or Putins response are likely to be swift, deadly and extreme.

The Turkish decision to shoot down the aircraft which they would have positively known was Russian is beyond idiotic.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Andaman Al

[Broken Record]

I think if the Russian Pilots are publicly harmed, Putin will send in Ground Troops to crush ISIS, this could be the start of something very dangerous.

[HenryB]

The Turks are going to have to go it alone against Russia. America with the Peace President is going to say relax And the EU and England will never fight for the Turks against Moscow.

Why are the Turks so stupid to think America EU and England will defend them?

[Usernames]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

[Kasset Tak]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

F16 was taken in to service 1978, the Russian SU-24 was taken in to service 1971 so it's even an older plane than the F16!

Edited November 24, 2015 by Kasset Tak

[smedly]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

F16 was taken in to service 1978, the Russian SU-24 was taken in to service 1971 so it's even an older plane than the F16!

a modern AA missile will rarely miss no matter what launches it

Not sure what Turkey is trying to achieve by this, it could be the fact that Turkey opposes Assad and refused to allow Russian aircraft access to Turkish fascilities which would include its airspace, shooting it down was a bit extreme IMO

[blowin]

This is maybe the start of something big. The last few weeks Putin has spoke about the Turks helping ISIS with Saudi and US dollars. So all these meetings with NATO members last week and this week its looking not great. But my wish would be let the Turks sort this out with their friends in ISIS maybe Obama might fund them.

[Steely Dan]

Russia is a serial offender in making illegal incursions to test defenses or provoke a reaction. It will be interesting to see how they try to spin this as being the victim. As an aside this could obviously degenerate into something very serious.

[manarak]

Confirmed Russian plane shot down by Turkish F16. One pilot captured by Syrian rebels. In the meantime heavy fighting apparently between Russian rescue and rebels on the ground.

Real time updates on that Twitter account.

hmmm... Russian plane shot down by Turkey, Turkey claims it was in Turkish airspace, Russia of course claims otherwise, but the rescue team is fighting with Syrian rebels on the ground...

I hope satellite intel will give a definite answer on this.

Very dangerous indeed, especially as Turkey's behavior in the conflict is highly questionable.

Edited November 24, 2015 by manarak

[Chicog]

hmmm... Russian plane shot down by Turkey, Turkey claims it was in Turkish airspace, Russia of course claims otherwise, but the rescue team is fighting with Syrian rebels on the ground...

I hope satellite intel will give a definite answer on this.

It wouldn't matter to Putin if it did.

[daveAustin]

^^ Exactly. They had to have it eventually.

[MobileContent]

And this Gentlemen is exactly the type of sequence of events that will start world war 3 !

Just catching up now. Are the Russian pilots caught by rebels/ISIS, is that report true? I hope they do not publicly harm these pilots or Putins response are likely to be swift, deadly and extreme.

The Turkish decision to shoot down the aircraft which they would have positively known was Russian is beyond idiotic.

Fully agree and the response from Russia will be very soon. No more Russians visiting Turkey and it is known that Turkey use planes in both Syria and Iraq. My guess Assad will be instructing to shot down Turkish planes over Syria and the Russians might just do it.

It is well known that Turkey fully supports ISIS so let the games begin. As far as I know only Russia has permission to fly over Syria by the Syrian government.

[Mosha]

Russians are saying it was shot down from the ground.

[manarak]

hmmm... Russian plane shot down by Turkey, Turkey claims it was in Turkish airspace, Russia of course claims otherwise, but the rescue team is fighting with Syrian rebels on the ground...

I hope satellite intel will give a definite answer on this.

It wouldn't matter to Putin if it did.

Would it matter to Turkey ?

[stevenl]

Both countries are acting recklessly there, and this will only escalate things.

[Mosha]

FWIW if Turkey is seen as the aggressor, then according to the NATO charter, they are on their own.

[manarak]

better reporting here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34907983

uh - oh:

Qatar-based Al Jazeera TV quoted an ethnic Turkmen rebel group as saying it had captured one of the Su-24's two pilots and were "looking for the other".

The Turkish foreign ministry also summoned the Russian ambassador last week to warn him that there would be "serious consequences" if the Russian air force did not immediately stop bombing "civilian Turkmen villages" in Latakia province.

The (Russian) ministry stressed that "throughout its flight, the aircraft remained exclusively above Syrian territory", adding: "Objective monitoring data shows it."

Edited November 24, 2015 by manarak

[Andaman Al]

Russia is a serial offender in making illegal incursions to test defenses or provoke a reaction. It will be interesting to see how they try to spin this as being the victim. As an aside this could obviously degenerate into something very serious.

Once again you try and spin anything yourself to make it look like everyone else is bad and only the US and it's close Middle Eastern Ally are good.

Russia does nothing that the Brits and US don't do. We used to fly/sail up and down Russian airspace and waters to test their defences just as much as they would fly down our borders.

However you want to spin it Russia is the ONLY one attacking and successfully destroying ISIS, why is that? No wonder the West are pissed. Every time they re-supply their own self created Frankenstein - ISIS - Russia is wiping them out. Right now with the threat from ISIS to the rest of the civilised world I wish that the USA, UK, France and Germany were all led by Putins. We would have world peace in a matter of months and ISIS would be consigned to the history books. As it is Russia, by destroying ISIS is ruining the plans of the neocons and zionists. Expect escalation. We had two world wars that resulted in the deaths of 40 million plus all over the murder of 1 man - Arch Duke Ferdinand, lets hope world war 3 which will have a far higher death toll is not caused by the public execution of some Russian pilot called Ivan. Funny how the rescue is going on inside Syria. Just how far in Turkish Airspace do you think they were Steely?

[Mosha]

Not the 1st time this has happened

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/611157/Russia-Turkey-jet-plane-shot-down-airspace-Syria-ISIS-Islamic-State

I think a lot of around NATO countries right now.

[MobileContent]

FWIW if Turkey is seen as the aggressor, then according to the NATO charter, they are on their own.

The plane crashed in Syria and the pilots are in Syria. Would the plane got shot down in Turkey airspace it would be on Turkish territory.

I am sure in no time Turkish planes will pop off over the sky in either Iraq or Syria.

Sultan Erdogan must have been really pixxed when Putin said several G20 countries are supporting ISIS (Turkey and Saudi Arabia).

To fight ISIS you need to fight of course the Islamist Erdogan who even wants to have his caliphate inside Turkey.

Who of NATO wants to help Turkey in Syria? The Russians have been bombing of hundreds of oil convoys in Syria. The son of Erdogan runs those oil convoys with his shipping company.

[Scott]

I don't know about the current situation, but some years back there was some areas along the border that were claimed by both Turkey and Syria.

[manarak]

I don't know about the current situation, but some years back there was some areas along the border that were claimed by both Turkey and Syria.

That would be the Hatay Province

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatay_Province

given up by Syria in 2004

but apparently the argument is re-heated since 2011

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatay_Province#Turkish.E2.80.93Syrian_dispute

Edited November 24, 2015 by manarak