Turkey 'shoots down' warplane near Syrian-Turkish border

[Usernames]

Lots of Russian things seem to be crashing. Its economy. Its jets. Its helicopters.

[craigt3365]

Assad is hardly an angel. He's a brutal dictator who rose to power through might, not (valid) elections, and has murdered his own people who were against him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian Civil War has been confirmed by the United Nations. The deadliest attacks were the Ghouta attack in the suburbs of Damascus in August 2013 and the Khan al-Asal attack in the suburbs of Aleppo in March 2013. Several other attacks have been alleged, reported and/or investigated.

A U.N. fact-finding mission and a UNHRC Commission of Inquiry have simultaneously investigated the attacks. The U.N. mission found likely use of the nerve agent Sarin in the case of Khan Al-Asal (19 March 2013), Saraqib (29 April 2013), Ghouta (21 August 2013), Jobar (24 August 2013) and Ashrafiyat Sahnaya (25 August 2013). The UNHRC commission later confirmed the use of Sarin in the Khan al-Asal, Saraqib and Ghouta attacks, but did not mention the Jobar and the Ashrafiyat Sahnaya attacks.

The UNHRC commission also found that the Sarin used in the Khan al-Asal attack bore "the same unique hallmarks" as the Sarin used in the Ghouta attack and indicated that the perpetrators likely had access to chemicals from the Syrian Army's stockpile.

Not the kind of man who should be running a country.

[craigt3365]

Ok. Enough. Please abide by forum rules and show respect to other members.

[Skeptic7]

I think if the Russian Pilots are publicly harmed, Putin will send in Ground Troops to crush ISIS, this could be the start of something very dangerous.

Hopefully better than the way they "crushed" the Mujahideen in Afghanistan!

[OMGImInPattaya]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

[jomcondo]

Assad is hardly an angel. He's a brutal dictator who rose to power through might, not (valid) elections, and has murdered his own people who were against him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian Civil War has been confirmed by the United Nations. The deadliest attacks were the Ghouta attack in the suburbs of Damascus in August 2013 and the Khan al-Asal attack in the suburbs of Aleppo in March 2013. Several other attacks have been alleged, reported and/or investigated.

A U.N. fact-finding mission and a UNHRC Commission of Inquiry have simultaneously investigated the attacks. The U.N. mission found likely use of the nerve agent Sarin in the case of Khan Al-Asal (19 March 2013), Saraqib (29 April 2013), Ghouta (21 August 2013), Jobar (24 August 2013) and Ashrafiyat Sahnaya (25 August 2013). The UNHRC commission later confirmed the use of Sarin in the Khan al-Asal, Saraqib and Ghouta attacks, but did not mention the Jobar and the Ashrafiyat Sahnaya attacks.

The UNHRC commission also found that the Sarin used in the Khan al-Asal attack bore "the same unique hallmarks" as the Sarin used in the Ghouta attack and indicated that the perpetrators likely had access to chemicals from the Syrian Army's stockpile.

Not the kind of man who should be running a country.

the same was said about gaddafi & saddam......and look where overthrowing them got the west

[happy Joe]

...Putin is directly responsible for his pilots death. Congratulations Putin! How does it feel to sacrifice a real live human pawn.

President Putin has allowed us to finally know the true face of Turkey, false friends, false allies, false democrats etc. Now the subject is closed, this country never will integrate the European community.

Now we all know that the Turks implicitly support ISIS Solicitating by pouring billions in return for oil smuggling.

It cost him an old plane and unfortunately the life of a pilot. Everyone knows that military trades involve some risks ...

Cheap price finally.

[LuckyNo4]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

F16 was taken in to service 1978, the Russian SU-24 was taken in to service 1971 so it's even an older plane than the F16!

a modern AA missile will rarely miss no matter what launches it

Not sure what Turkey is trying to achieve by this, it could be the fact that Turkey opposes Assad and refused to allow Russian aircraft access to Turkish fascilities which would include its airspace, shooting it down was a bit extreme IMO

"Not sure what Turkey is trying to achieve by this"

Escalation

[jomcondo]

that erdogan is a complete nutter.

that was an act of war

[LuckyNo4]

About time. Hope Russia listens to issues regarding cross border incursions.

But it's ok for all and sundry to cross border incursion into Syria?

[sammieuk1]

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .

He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.

He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.

He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

[Publicus]

Let's see...how could Russia have prevented this.

1. Get permission from Turkey to overfly their country near the Syrian border.

2. Pay attention to warnings not to overfly Turkey's airspace without permission and coordination.

3. Stay away from Turkey's airspace

4. Join NATO or...

5. Pack up and go home...bullies aren't wanted.

Putin is directly responsible for his pilots death. Congratulations Putin! How does it feel to sacrifice a real live human pawn.

6 Stop bombing the good terrorists.

7. Don't be bombing consciously and deliberately right at the Turkey border to kill Turkmen fighters who are anti-Assad and anti-ISIS and supported by Turkey and the United States.

8. Do bomb Daesh instead of fighters supported by the US & Coalition.

9. Don't look so stupid to lose the first Russian Air Force fighter jet since the Afghan war when some tribesmen with shoulder missiles popped the same Su-24 fighter jets of your precious and since deceased Soviet Union. Last time this happened was 1989 so how's it feel to be a dope.

10. Stop being a loser same as the old Soviet Union was and same as the tsars before it were.

[Lukecan]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

Maybe because the Russian bomber happens to be a 40 year old one.

[craigt3365]

Assad is hardly an angel. He's a brutal dictator who rose to power through might, not (valid) elections, and has murdered his own people who were against him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_chemical_weapons_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian Civil War has been confirmed by the United Nations. The deadliest attacks were the Ghouta attack in the suburbs of Damascus in August 2013 and the Khan al-Asal attack in the suburbs of Aleppo in March 2013. Several other attacks have been alleged, reported and/or investigated.

A U.N. fact-finding mission and a UNHRC Commission of Inquiry have simultaneously investigated the attacks. The U.N. mission found likely use of the nerve agent Sarin in the case of Khan Al-Asal (19 March 2013), Saraqib (29 April 2013), Ghouta (21 August 2013), Jobar (24 August 2013) and Ashrafiyat Sahnaya (25 August 2013). The UNHRC commission later confirmed the use of Sarin in the Khan al-Asal, Saraqib and Ghouta attacks, but did not mention the Jobar and the Ashrafiyat Sahnaya attacks.

The UNHRC commission also found that the Sarin used in the Khan al-Asal attack bore "the same unique hallmarks" as the Sarin used in the Ghouta attack and indicated that the perpetrators likely had access to chemicals from the Syrian Army's stockpile.

Not the kind of man who should be running a country.

the same was said about gaddafi & saddam......and look where overthrowing them got the west

Many dictators have been overthrown in the past. Hitler is one that comes to mind. Germany seems to be doing quite well know. It can be done. But yes, unfortunately, there's not been much success in the ME. Tunisia is hanging in there, others not so well.

[Lukecan]

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .

He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.

He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.

He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

[retarius]

If you look at the video from the dead pilot those guys talked Arabic and not Turkish.

Turkmen brothers... yeah right. Turkmen don't speak arabic. There are foreign fighters there.

Putin is blatantly supporting the Kurdish terrorists in Syria. They pose a bigger threat to us compared to ISIS, see Turkey vs PKK.

Putin is used to bullying smaller nations, He did the same in Ukraine, but Ukraine was too weak for his liking so he got what he wanted. You don't go around violating airspaces, especially if that country is a NATO member.

Until the Russians joined the fight the only people fighting ISIS were the Kurds. The US, Turkey, Saudi and UAE were not so secretly supporting, funding and arming ISIS, with Turkey allowing huge numbers to pass through their territory into Syria. If Putin wasn't supporting the Kurds before he surely will now, and rightly so. Russia is attacking Turkomen in the area where the plane was shot down and will hopefully drive them into Turkey and recover the border there for the Syrians to control.

[Usernames]

Putin and Turkey at each other's throat. I'm trying to be on someone's side about this thing, but I just can't do it. Let'em have at each other. Everybody else stand back and watch.

[Publicus]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

Maybe because the Russian bomber happens to be a 40 year old one.

Indeed.

Vlad was a student in his early 20s at the KGB U when the Su-24 came off the assembly line. So he's grown rather attached to it.

Too bad he wasn't making a personal macho shirtless sunglasses recon in it when the F-16 and Turkish pilot put the zap to it.

Two Cold War fighter jets and it's the same outcome. Russia loses.

Putin said he'd wrap things up in Syria in 3-6 months. He'd better step it up before all his clunker war machine can't get off the ground any more.

Or can't stay in the air.

[simple1]

Until the Russians joined the fight the only people fighting ISIS were the Kurds.

Factually incorrect. Not going into the detail of the various non Assad regime affiliated groups combating Daesh, but you & others may find the report below of interest.

Who are the Turkmen in Syria?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

[craigt3365]

Putin is blatantly supporting the Kurdish terrorists in Syria. They pose a bigger threat to us compared to ISIS, see Turkey vs PKK.

Putin is used to bullying smaller nations, He did the same in Ukraine, but Ukraine was too weak for his liking so he got what he wanted. You don't go around violating airspaces, especially if that country is a NATO member.

Until the Russians joined the fight the only people fighting ISIS were the Kurds. The US, Turkey, Saudi and UAE were not so secretly supporting, funding and arming ISIS, with Turkey allowing huge numbers to pass through their territory into Syria. If Putin wasn't supporting the Kurds before he surely will now, and rightly so. Russia is attacking Turkomen in the area where the plane was shot down and will hopefully drive them into Turkey and recover the border there for the Syrians to control.

Please get your facts straight. Notice the date? Well before Russia decided to bomb rebels opposed to Assad. Including the Turkmen.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/09/us-begins-bombing-isil-positions-syria-201492313622252650.html

US and allies strike ISIL targets in Syria US and Arab coalition attacks ISIL in northern Syria, as Washington conducts separate strikes on Al-Nusra Front ally.

23 Sep 2014

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34910389

Who are the Turkmen in Syria?

The Turkmen are ethnic Turks who have lived in the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran since the 11th Century.

They are mainly concentrated in the north, in the Turkmen Mountain area in Latakia close to the Turkish border, as well as in Aleppo, Idlib, Homs, Tartus and the Damascus region.

There are no reliable population figures, but they are estimated to number between 1.5 and 3.5 million.

Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

Supported by Turkey, a staunch foe of Bashar al-Assad, they took up arms against the regime soon after the start of the uprising in 2011.

[Publicus]

Erdogan dreams of being a sultan he has restarted a campaign against the Kurds to win an election he has jailed judges lawyers closed banks and media outlets spied on all internet use jailed individuals for tweets and comments to avoid the graft of 2013 when he clearly was caught with his fingers in the till on a massive scale .

He has single handily driven the lira into oblivion along with the economy.

He has managed to build himself a monstrous 1100 room palace with the biggest table in the world and gold toilets at a cost of $3 billion.

He is the new Anatolian Hitler and just as dangerous as any of the detritus of this area.

Everyones pissed at him especially Putin fanboys because he bursted the most overhyped bubble in the last 10 years, which is Russia.

Not over a year ago, everyone was like ohhh what is Europe going to do if it takes on Russia, what happened in the end. Ruble devalued from 30 to 70 without NATO lifting an arm.

Posing half naked on a horse, acting all macho apparently has put him out of reality, Turkey is no Ukraine or Georgia, you don't violate the airspace of a country in wartime conditions, Turkey changed the engagement rules to "wartime" 3 years ago in the Syrian borders.

Yes Russia is the biggest military power with only 1 aircraft carrier.

It is of significance to mention a bit here about Nato and certain of its members as military powers of the world.

Of the world's top ten military forces and powers, five of 'em are in Nato. Here's how the five that are in Nato rank globally.....

USA - 1

UK - 5

France - 6

Germany - 8

Turkey - 10

Russia ranks number 2 of the world's military powers, the CCP China number 3. And the CCP Dictators in Beijing are definitely standing back from this one. Beijing is rather busy at the moment hollering about the US Navy having the CCP Boyz tied up in knots in the South China Sea.

Btw Israel globally is number 11.

Some of the other Nato members and their world's military strength rankings...

Canada - 14

Italy - 16

Poland - 19

http://www.globalfirepower.com/

(Yes Canada, 14th military power of the world. Most Canadians don't know it either.)

[derator01]

A post suggesting violence against all Islamists has been removed from view. Please be careful with your posts and abide by forum rules.

Edit: And please stick to the topic. This is not about the Russian economy.

[Harsh Jones]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

First off, it was an older model Russian jet. Second, it was not an air to air fight. The jet was not even in visual range.

The 4.5 gen (not even the 5th gen) Russian SU 30 SM's have a tighter turning radius then the US F 22 Raptor even though they are a bigger jet. Nothing in the US airforce can do this.

[Publicus]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

Maybe because the Russian bomber happens to be a 40 year old one.

Indeed.

Vlad was a student in his early 20s at the KGB U when the Su-24 came off the assembly line. So he's grown rather attached to it.

Too bad he wasn't making a personal macho shirtless sunglasses recon in it when the F-16 and Turkish pilot put the zap to it.

Two Cold War fighter jets and it's the same outcome. Russia loses.

Putin said he'd wrap things up in Syria in 3-6 months. He'd better step it up before all his clunker war machine can't get off the ground any more.

Or can't stay in the air.

Point taken

In the meantime the US will be busy dropping leaflets to ISIS truck drivers to get out of harm's way...

For Assad and Putin as with Milosevic it's women and children first into the ditch they just had to dig.

I reiterate, there are no unarmed young men in or among any of the rebel forces or areas for Assad or Putin to line up and massacre. They're all armed and experienced fighters. So this war isn't going any better for Putin and Assad than for Milosevic and his war.

The only young people Assad and his air forces have been able to slaughter are in the schools of rebel areas. Y'know, barrel bombs into your classroom as Assad's 'civics' lesson.

Assad's message is unmistakable. Oppose me and I will kill your children where they sit and where they play each day.

[HooHaa]

turkeys always get angry around thanksgiving. can you blame them?

[Usernames]

Turkey doesn't get top of the line avionics from the US. Doesn't say much for the latest Russian fighters if a Turkish F16 shot one down.

First off, it was an older model Russian jet. Second, it was not an air to air fight. The jet was not even in visual range.

The 4.5 gen (not even the 5th gen) Russian SU 30 SM's have a tighter turning radius then the US F 22 Raptor even though they are a bigger jet. Nothing in the US airforce can do this.

Neither the SU30SM or the still nothing but a dream PAK-FA will be able to match the Raptor, which is proven and already adapting to new changes. As with all Soviet systems, the Russian (and Chinese J 20) suffer from vastly inferior avionics and underpowered engines (see them at air shows and prepare for reality to meet fantasy). And most important of all is the ability to mass manufacture to the right tolerances. The Russians and Chinese simply can't do it. Just like with the Buran.

[Rancid]

I think if the Russian Pilots are publicly harmed, Putin will send in Ground Troops to crush ISIS, this could be the start of something very dangerous.

Seems to me that Russia is having a hard time keeping planes in the air....and certainly have been taking hits.

Double Karma

I find it a sad reflection on humanity that someone would gloat over the innocent civilian deaths of any country in a terror attack. Was Paris or 9-11 also karma? I suppose those that arrange these murders have similar sociopathic tendencies.

Turkey wouldn't dare take on Russia alone, note they went running straight to NATO to back them up.

Don't think things are moving in a very encouraging direction here, how far will these lunatics push their war for profit agenda?

Seems to me the Russians, although no angels themselves, are just reacting to on going provocations. What though becomes one too many?

[maykilceksin]

Russia got a big, deserved slap in his face by putting his nose into some other countries' borders and internal affairs.

what is Russia doing in Syria? Russia is a country thousands of kms away from Syria? and think about it, they infringe the Southern border of Turkey while Russia is a Northern country!

and is Russia is lap dog of Assad Regime, protecting them? So, what if USA or any other country get the rights from Ukraine to protect the air space and land of Ukraine occupied by Russian unlawfully?? Will Russia allow that? C'mon! of course not.

All Russia wants is keeping Assad regime in power. Assad gave Russians land and bases so now they scare like if people of Syria regains the power, sure they will kick the Russians out of Syria.

that is why Russia is lying like they fight with ISIS to create base for their air attacks in Syria but no they bombard any other group there not related with ISIS just fighting the Assad bloody regime.

and they cut that nose, very simple.

It is easy for Americans and Brits and Russians or Australians to comment about this incident from thousands of kms away! still keep in mind, this is Turkish Syrian border not Turkish Russian border.

Turks live there and they suffer from this bloody wars and complications there for decades where Russians and Americans etc sleeping in their secure homelands and in their comfortable beds thousands of kms away.

Protection of its borders and the people is the right of Turkey both through international and domestic laws, more than any other country lurking in Middle East without any legal foundation.

Russia intruded Turkish border 5 times last couple of months and including a radar lock from a Mig 29 to an Turkish F 16 for four minutes.

So i think they were were feeling like 'I am Russia and i can do whatever i want and intrude and infringe others borders are also OK' and they paid for their arrogance.

There were 5 meetings with Russian official last month about air space intrusions and latest one being held last Thursday and Russian officials warned for not crossing Turkish border at any means.

please read a bit about politics before posting misleading and ignorant information here.

check:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/10/07/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-idUKKCN0S00TB20151007

this is just one, there were many if you want to search and read including a unmanned plane shot down last month belongs to Russia.

So, if it is another country lets say Ukraine or Germany infringing Russian airspace regularly, What will be the response of Russia?

You just cannot come from thousands of kms away from your country and bomb around and f...k around on others' borders, disrespect and disregard the sovereignty of another country claiming you fight with ISIS.

and this happened while Russians are bombing a group against Assad regime, not while they are bombing ISIS!

I am sure Russia cannot intrude through the border of Turkey again.

and NATO is nothign withotu Turkey. Turkish army is the third biggest/powerful amongst NATO members and it is geopolitical location makes it even more important. and even Russia sure thinks twice on creating problems to Turkey.

still, if shit happens and Russia attacks Turkey and if NATO does nothing, i dont get surprised as betrayal of West is famous and traditional still Turkey i am sure had enough power to defend itself from Russia who could not even handle Afghans before.

and if you will just blame Turkey for this incident just because you are racist and discriminative person, that is fine but i am sure readers see these posts and people, they look funny really:) (i really cannot understand how come those discriminative people lives in Thailand with Asians, kissing their Thai girlfriends while discriminating any other race not belonging to theirs!!)

and keep in mind, whom you are supporting. It is Putin, same guy responsible for many war crimes in Ukraine and elsewhere including downing of Malaysian Airways plane by Russian made rockets.

and hope the pilots are safe and alive. hate any kind of war and human causality and price is always paid on the field and never by the ....g politicians at the end.

Edited November 25, 2015 by maykilceksin

[NeverSure]

That Russian bomber must be a real piece of crap if it can be shot down by a 30 year old F-16 flown by a Turkish pilot.

Maybe because the Russian bomber happens to be a 40 year old one.

This was probably more about a modern missile than an airplane. Any modern purpose built missile belonging to NATO, be it a UK or a US design isn't likely to miss. It's more likely to go right up the tailpipe.

Cheers.

[Chicog]

Chicog

You are normally far better informed than your post above would suggest.

Hafez Al Assad was not the man that you suggest at all. Yes he had to quell a rebellion of the 'Muslim Brotherhood' which would have threatened any form of peace in the Middle East and this resulted in a conflict in the North. The Assads are Alawites and as such Syria was a very progressive place. The only difficulty Hafez Al Assad gace the US and Israel was he was a very skilled and challenging negotiator. Funny what you say above falls into line with the recent propaganda started to make the Assad regime look bad.

Have a read of the following transcript of the breaking news from CNN on the death of Hafez Al Assad just moments after his death.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0006/10/bn.01.html

The man described in this transcript of the news video (available to purchase) is not the monster you describe but someone loved by his people and admired throughout the Middle East as the 'Last Arab Champion'. There are laudatory comments made about him by all the people interviewed including US Ambassadors. President Clinton and Sec Albright saw him as a warm approachable man who was an effective leader. All these words straight from the US and straight off the CNN news item. Funny you can't take these words back when you try to demonise people later.

As for the Son Bashir Assad, he has categorically denied ever using any form of chemical weapons against his people and all the evidence today points towards false flag ops by the CIA and Mossad in a bid to turn world opinion against Assad. What I find difficult to understand is that you are spouting off the same propaganda rubbish when you are normally quite on the mark with your assessment of things. There was nothing adverse in the press prior to 2011 about Assad. He was tough like his father in that he insisted that Israel withdraw from the occupied territories and he was a supporter of the Palestinians. Still today 75-80% of the people in Syria support Assad. Assad gassing and bombing his own?? Nope, that is not true. He has become an obstacle in the Middle East getting in the way of the changing US foreign policy. This is the nation we were glad joined the coalition against Saddam, the nation we have hardly heard a peep from until in 2011 certain leaderships decided they needed to plant a more co-operative puppet on the throne of Syria.

As for the Assad's being Dictators, the Father was the leader of bloodless coup and on his death the son took over as the nation expected. The only people Hafez Assad and Bashir Assad have had to deal with within their own country have been the radical Muslim elements such as the Muslim Brotherhood, but in a world where the west has now manufactured an extremist rebel army to do it's dirty work, we dont want people that will stand and fight against the radicals. Many in the Middle East do not care for your idea of democracy, proven overwhelmingly I think in Iraq. As for what I am on? Coffee and morning toast.

How absurd to use US foreign policy as a guideline for whether or not it is acceptable for a dictator to murder 30,000 innocent people simply for daring to challenge his rule.

And then to weakly argue that his people "expected" Bashir Assad to take over on his death, well what else were they supposed to do? Get killed as well?

As for it being a bloodless coup, well I can name another recent one that comes to mind, does that make it right?

The Sunni MAJORITY in Syria saw Tunisia oust an unpopular dictator and it gave them the strength to demand democratic reforms.

Assad's answer to their peaceful protests was bullets and bombs. Putin's defence of this murderer is what allowed what should have been a peaceful rebellion like Tunisia to spiral out of control.

I long for the day an inclusive Syrian government is formed that can battle the extremists (I long for the same in Iraq, too, for the same reason).

And I look forward to Assad swinging from a yard arm for his crimes, but he will probably end up fleeing to Iran.

And I'm glad the Turks shot down this plane.

Let's see if Putin has the cojones to take on NATO now.

And if not, he should give up his crumbling base on the Med and help remove Assad and his homicidal Alawite cronies from power, so that a new government can get on with the job of eradicating IS.