Meeting Thai Women

[cobbler]

yes Eldragon. I agree with your comment. I dont have 1 ozy mate who finnished his divorce with what he already owned. So what does this say about western women. Not all. My brother is married to a lovely western girl. Im sure any western man whos already been divorced understands. The rest , well. Wait till they have been through it . Then they can come back and say western women arent driven by money.

Cheers Cobbler

Oh give it a rest,

Mr "I'm-not-at-all-bitter"

BTW, that help your

Thai wife's given you

with your business

has a monetary value

in the judge's eyes

if the brown stuff

should ever hit the

fan.

The stats prove what i say is true. Or would you prefer i lie about it. However ,good and bad everywhere. After being with my thai wife for 10 years. She has had many opportunities to clean me out and leave me with nothing,setting herself up with enough money to live like a queen forever. Untill now has never done it. She is my best friend. Only thing is ,i wish i went to thailand and met her when i was 21 years old and didnt waste my younger working years . Better late than never,im thankfull for that. Some ,or many men never find that 1 person in their life they can really trust,allways watching their back. Then the ones who cant stand to see,or believe another person can be so lucky. I learnt from my mistake.

There are many great girls ive met through my wife. Birds of a feather flock together. Depends what you want in your life. Maybe people should try looking in a different place. If you keep finding parasites in a bar,dont try a different bar lol. Try a different area. Those that get what im saying dont need to be told,the others may learn. Or maybe theyll never get it. Try looking in hotels ,offices,ect , go for a higher more educated type of thai. Dont underestimate yourself. Just when you least expect it you may find what you need for your life.

Cheers

[cobbler]

Nope im not saying the obvious.

Ok i will

People who allready know how nice it is to meet a lovely thai lady dont need it to be explained to them.

Then there are the others.

Cheers Cobbler

<removed>

Up to you if you feel better insulting me constantly. After what ive been through you would have to kill me to hurt me,everything else is like water off a ducks back.

Would you prefer to read that i kept making the same mistakes looking in the same places, would that be a man up decision, keep bashing my head against the same wall? Would that make you happy? Well sorry i cant say that. I am very lucky,i know it . All thanks to the fact i stopped looking in the same place.

Cheers Cobbler

[cobbler]

yes Eldragon. I agree with your comment. I dont have 1 ozy mate who finnished his divorce with what he already owned. So what does this say about western women. Not all. My brother is married to a lovely western girl. Im sure any western man whos already been divorced understands. The rest , well. Wait till they have been through it . Then they can come back and say western women arent driven by money.

Cheers Cobbler

Oh give it a rest,

Mr "I'm-not-at-all-bitter"

BTW, that help your

Thai wife's given you

with your business

has a monetary value

in the judge's eyes

if the brown stuff

should ever hit the

fan.

The stats prove what i say is true. Or would you prefer i lie about it. However ,good and bad everywhere. After being with my thai wife for 10 years. She has had many opportunities to clean me out and leave me with nothing,setting herself up with enough money to live like a queen forever. Untill now has never done it. She is my best friend. Only thing is ,i wish i went to thailand and met her when i was 21 years old and didnt waste my younger working years . Better late than never,im thankfull for that. Some ,or many men never find that 1 person in their life they can really trust,allways watching their back. Then the ones who cant stand to see,or believe another person can be so lucky. I learnt from my mistake.

There are many great girls ive met through my wife. Birds of a feather flock together. Depends what you want in your life. Maybe people should try looking in a different place. If you keep finding parasites in a bar,dont try a different bar lol. Try a different area. Those that get what im saying dont need to be told,the others may learn. Or maybe theyll never get it. Try looking in hotels ,offices,ect , go for a higher more educated type of thai. Dont underestimate yourself. Just when you least expect it you may find what you need for your life.

Cheers

I think you might be a native Australian (probably not Aboriginal), although it was their country.

But, in all honesty, your command of the English language is not great.

But marry a farm girl, what can you expect ?

Farm girl. BWHHHHHHHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA.

[YeahSiam]

yes Eldragon. I agree with your comment. I dont have 1 ozy mate who finnished his divorce with what he already owned. So what does this say about western women. Not all. My brother is married to a lovely western girl. Im sure any western man whos already been divorced understands. The rest , well. Wait till they have been through it . Then they can come back and say western women arent driven by money.

Cheers Cobbler

Oh give it a rest,

Mr "I'm-not-at-all-bitter"

BTW, that help your

Thai wife's given you

with your business

has a monetary value

in the judge's eyes

if the brown stuff

should ever hit the

fan.

The stats prove what i say is true. Or would you prefer i lie about it. However ,good and bad everywhere. After being with my thai wife for 10 years. She has had many opportunities to clean me out and leave me with nothing,setting herself up with enough money to live like a queen forever. Untill now has never done it. She is my best friend. Only thing is ,i wish i went to thailand and met her when i was 21 years old and didnt waste my younger working years . Better late than never,im thankfull for that. Some ,or many men never find that 1 person in their life they can really trust,allways watching their back. Then the ones who cant stand to see,or believe another person can be so lucky. I learnt from my mistake.

There are many great girls ive met through my wife. Birds of a feather flock together. Depends what you want in your life. Maybe people should try looking in a different place. If you keep finding parasites in a bar,dont try a different bar lol. Try a different area. Those that get what im saying dont need to be told,the others may learn. Or maybe theyll never get it. Try looking in hotels ,offices,ect , go for a higher more educated type of thai. Dont underestimate yourself. Just when you least expect it you may find what you need for your life.

Cheers

What stats? Are you

drunk or deliberately

avoiding the point

because you can't

deal with the issues

raised?

You say you've been

married to your Thai wife

for 10 years but you're

still whining like you got

divorced yesterday.

[cobbler]

Oh sorry if it sounds that way. I just kept trying to explain to you the situation in the west compared to thai. Thats why its good if you can meet the right person in thai. Sorry ,i should have worded it better so you can understand. I cant expect you to be a mind reader. People who understand will get it but thats not everybody.

Im always on the rubber threads and farming threads,everybody is on the same wavelength. These type are different .

Cheers Cobbler.

[cobbler]

Thai lovelinks and those type of things . May work for some,i dont know. Courses for horses i suppose.

Cheers Cobbler

[JLCrab]

I will hardly expect the Thai GF to take care of me when I get old -- but her Mother might.

hahaha perhaps u should be with the mother.

Cheers Cobbler

Perhaps not.

[CharlieH]

Many posts removed (again).. Debate/argue about the topic, DONT get personal, personal remarks and responses will be removed.

If the same individual persists, a posting holiday will now follow without future warning.

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[YeahSiam]

Oh sorry if it sounds that way. I just kept trying to explain to you the situation in the west compared to thai. Thats why its good if you can meet the right person in thai. Sorry ,i should have worded it better so you can understand. I cant expect you to be a mind reader. People who understand will get it but thats not everybody.

Im always on the rubber threads and farming threads,everybody is on the same wavelength. These type are different .

Cheers Cobbler.

Sorry but that just

sounds like even more

gibberish. What will

people who 'get it'

understand?

That men who divorced

western women are

always the wronged

party?

That sounds a bit stupid

[cobbler]

I know that a lot of foreigners are happily married to Thai women. I have a hard time meeting honest Thai women. I find meeting or dating sites a waste of time. I have lived here for 5 years now, and have had a number of relationships, nothing lasting more than 2 years. I do not visit the well known places to meet bar girls in Thailand and am not willing to travel the country to meet a lady.

When a woman has lived with me in my apartment things go well, when I move into their homes, things fall apart. I have worked all my life, do not drink and did not come to Thailand for the women. I was married to a Thai lady 5 years ago.

I do expect the woman to either understand my Thai and me hers or speak a some English, without communication, there is nothing. Do I expect to much? I have a hard time with dishonesty and lies.

Some positive suggestions for those more successful.

colabamumbai maybe next time if its working well with your lady, just dont move in with her family. You dont know if they are puting pressure on her. Remember its a totally different culture than in the west. Maybe she has difficulty explaining things to you ,or feels embarrassed to tell you certain things. You could have a really fantastic girl but outside pressure could be something to avoid .

As for liars. Well i think weve all had enough of those . We dont want more. If you are sure they are lieing or scamming you.NEXT then next again untill you find the right one. Only need 1 honest girl then you are laughing for ever.

Try a different type of girl if you find you tend to go for 1 type of girl. Try meeting a girl who does something different with her life. EG . If you tend to find yourself going for shop assistants, next time try a hotel manager . Or a clerk,or a farm girl ,or an accountant. Dont forget most thai ladies who are separated have already had a bad deal by a thai man. Its the opposite to the west. So those who have the power tend to take advantage of it sometimes or a lot . In thailand if the man owns the house ,its his house so he writes the rules. This includes having extra girls on the side. Remember its the opposite to the west. Thai women are often not outspoken untill they really know you. Its not there culture to be loud and pushy, but it doesnt mean they dont want your respect.

I hope you can understand my idea. Its worked very well for me.

Cheers Cobbler

[Colabamumbai]

I know that a lot of foreigners are happily married to Thai women. I have a hard time meeting honest Thai women. I find meeting or dating sites a waste of time. I have lived here for 5 years now, and have had a number of relationships, nothing lasting more than 2 years. I do not visit the well known places to meet bar girls in Thailand and am not willing to travel the country to meet a lady.

When a woman has lived with me in my apartment things go well, when I move into their homes, things fall apart. I have worked all my life, do not drink and did not come to Thailand for the women. I was married to a Thai lady 5 years ago.

I do expect the woman to either understand my Thai and me hers or speak a some English, without communication, there is nothing. Do I expect to much? I have a hard time with dishonesty and lies.

Some positive suggestions for those more successful.

colabamumbai maybe next time if its working well with your lady, just dont move in with her family. You dont know if they are puting pressure on her. Remember its a totally different culture than in the west. Maybe she has difficulty explaining things to you ,or feels embarrassed to tell you certain things. You could have a really fantastic girl but outside pressure could be something to avoid .

As for liars. Well i think weve all had enough of those . We dont want more. If you are sure they are lieing or scamming you.NEXT then next again untill you find the right one. Only need 1 honest girl then you are laughing for ever.

Try a different type of girl if you find you tend to go for 1 type of girl. Try meeting a girl who does something different with her life. EG . If you tend to find yourself going for shop assistants, next time try a hotel manager . Or a clerk,or a farm girl ,or an accountant. Dont forget most thai ladies who are separated have already had a bad deal by a thai man. Its the opposite to the west. So those who have the power tend to take advantage of it sometimes or a lot . In thailand if the man owns the house ,its his house so he writes the rules. This includes having extra girls on the side. Remember its the opposite to the west. Thai women are often not outspoken untill they really know you. Its not there culture to be loud and pushy, but it doesnt mean they dont want your respect.

I hope you can understand my idea. Its worked very well for me.

Cheers Cobbler

Good post. Thanks everyone for their positive comments and suggestions.

[JLCrab]

From 1958:

[petermik]

I,ve got the perfect one,she has a face that only a mother could love,my mates all laughed first time they saw her but she,s as gratefull as hell to me,wonderfull peacefull girl with the libido of 3 normal ladies.............life is bliss

[BKResort]

It's a numbers game; you are going to have to improve your odds by meeting, dating, getting to know as many ladies as you can.

I worked with a guy in Canada many years ago, in the looks department he was not the type that most woman would give a second glance too; he was short, over weight and simply just not a good looking guy. He however did have "game" in that he was supremely self confident, was not afraid of rejection, able to make them laugh and not afraid to give it a go. His strategy was simple; approach as many women as possible for a date; and I mean literally as many as he could, he never stopped. He consistantly punched well above his weight.

I liked your comment because I met a guy in its 30s, long time ago, with same strategy. He was short and ugly, not much money, but very playful. After seeing him with many nice dates, I asked about his :"secret". He told me that he just joke and ask for a date to EVERY woman he likes, in offices, markets, streets, everywhere.....He said that the week is short for the amount of dates he get in that way....because asking for a date to 40 woman a day, at least one will say yes....and that means at least 7 dates a week..every week. Makes sense.

I learned...and Thailand is the perfect play ground..even for a guy in its late 50s.

[thaiduncankk]

I,ve got the perfect one,she has a face that only a mother could love,my mates all laughed first time they saw her but she,s as gratefull as hell to me,wonderfull peacefull girl with the libido of 3 normal ladies.............life is bliss

Can she spell ?

If she can, take some lessons.

[thaiduncankk]

It's a numbers game; you are going to have to improve your odds by meeting, dating, getting to know as many ladies as you can.

I worked with a guy in Canada many years ago, in the looks department he was not the type that most woman would give a second glance too; he was short, over weight and simply just not a good looking guy. He however did have "game" in that he was supremely self confident, was not afraid of rejection, able to make them laugh and not afraid to give it a go. His strategy was simple; approach as many women as possible for a date; and I mean literally as many as he could, he never stopped. He consistantly punched well above his weight.

I liked your comment because I met a guy in its 30s, long time ago, with same strategy. He was short and ugly, not much money, but very playful. After seeing him with many nice dates, I asked about his :"secret". He told me that he just joke and ask for a date to EVERY woman he likes, in offices, markets, streets, everywhere.....He said that the week is short for the amount of dates he get in that way....because asking for a date to 40 woman a day, at least one will say yes....and that means at least 7 dates a week..every week. Makes sense.

I learned...and Thailand is the perfect play ground..even for a guy in its late 50s.

Can I ask, a maybe silly, question ?

Why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a Thai girl ?

Maybe, back home, not too much success with the females ?

But come here, and now you believe you are Tom Cruise !

You come here, you are not Tom Cruise, either am I.

But so many insecure people come here to live the dream.

Sucked in, spat out, and then want sympathy ?

[JLCrab]

It's a numbers game; you are going to have to improve your odds by meeting, dating, getting to know as many ladies as you can.

I worked with a guy in Canada many years ago, in the looks department he was not the type that most woman would give a second glance too; he was short, over weight and simply just not a good looking guy. He however did have "game" in that he was supremely self confident, was not afraid of rejection, able to make them laugh and not afraid to give it a go. His strategy was simple; approach as many women as possible for a date; and I mean literally as many as he could, he never stopped. He consistantly punched well above his weight.

I liked your comment because I met a guy in its 30s, long time ago, with same strategy. He was short and ugly, not much money, but very playful. After seeing him with many nice dates, I asked about his :"secret". He told me that he just joke and ask for a date to EVERY woman he likes, in offices, markets, streets, everywhere.....He said that the week is short for the amount of dates he get in that way....because asking for a date to 40 woman a day, at least one will say yes....and that means at least 7 dates a week..every week. Makes sense.

I learned...and Thailand is the perfect play ground..even for a guy in its late 50s.

I worked with a guy in Denver in the early 1980's: He was tall good looking and married.

He would go to happy hour after work and ask the appropriate girls: Do you like having sex with a guy who likes having sex with girls with big t-ts?

He said he would get kicked in the crotch and drinks thrown in his face but sooner or later one would say: Yes -- my place or yours?

[slipperylobster]

Seriously...

If you are looking for a kind woman who is not 40 years younger than yourself, of average looks, and little fluency in english (willing to learn)....there are several in the towns and villages all over the Northeast. These gals are mostly divorcees with grown kids.

Downside...they are willing to get involved, but financial relief is their prime motivation. One guy I know is over 80..but snapped up a 50 year old lady who takes good care of him. It was tough going at first, but he eventually purchased a few properties for her and now she refers to him as "my farang angel" (used to refer to him as "it"). He is extemely happy, and she keeps his home immaculate..and provides good companionship.

I suppose it is hard to get a girl under 30...for us senior citizens...lol. (although I see some have managed to snap up a good one). For the most part, these guys are well stocked with cash...and fairly generous. I can't compete...but am happy with mine. Beautiful person...15 years younger...and no sex working in her background.. (she was married and both her and her husband had decent jobs and wages). As usual....debt and bad investments...along with the inabilitiy to deal with her husband's mia nois....led to a broken marriage. So happy I met somebody that believes in good, positive things. I can't wrap my mind around the younger girls....(tired of being a dad/sugar papa...or whatever they call that). My gal took the time to learn english on her own..and progresses daily.

[slipperylobster]

It's a numbers game; you are going to have to improve your odds by meeting, dating, getting to know as many ladies as you can.

I worked with a guy in Canada many years ago, in the looks department he was not the type that most woman would give a second glance too; he was short, over weight and simply just not a good looking guy. He however did have "game" in that he was supremely self confident, was not afraid of rejection, able to make them laugh and not afraid to give it a go. His strategy was simple; approach as many women as possible for a date; and I mean literally as many as he could, he never stopped. He consistantly punched well above his weight.

I liked your comment because I met a guy in its 30s, long time ago, with same strategy. He was short and ugly, not much money, but very playful. After seeing him with many nice dates, I asked about his :"secret". He told me that he just joke and ask for a date to EVERY woman he likes, in offices, markets, streets, everywhere.....He said that the week is short for the amount of dates he get in that way....because asking for a date to 40 woman a day, at least one will say yes....and that means at least 7 dates a week..every week. Makes sense.

I learned...and Thailand is the perfect play ground..even for a guy in its late 50s.

Yes...Thailand is full of cute, young girls looking for short, ugly, fat men who can make them laugh...

just make sure you got some cash, and you stop by a shopping mall ...after the picnic.

Tall, handsome, slendor folks like us just aren't funny. So we cannot compete. Additionally, we are less attracted to shopping venues...(spending most of our time at the gym..or riding bicycles). The girls hate that.

Edited December 3, 2015 by slipperylobster

[Gutenberg]

Tall, handsome, slendor folks like us just aren't funny. So we cannot compete. Additionally, we are less attracted to shopping venues...(spending most of our time at the gym..or riding bicycles). The girls hate that.

I don't what it is with me and the Thai girls but I get more candy in Europe.

[petermik]

Can I ask, a maybe silly, question ?

Why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a Thai girl ?

Maybe, back home, not too much success with the females ?

But come here, and now you believe you are Tom Cruise !

You come here, you are not Tom Cruise, either am I.

But so many insecure people come here to live the dream.

Sucked in, spat out, and then want sympathy ?

thai duncan

The subject of this thread started by the OP was "meeting thai women" you come into it by " can I ask, a maybe silly question...........why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a thai girl" the OP wanted help/assistance about how he may go about meeting a "decent" thai lady,he never mentions being "obsessed" if you cannot provide any usefull input why bother replying? you comment about "insecure people" what right have you got to make this assumption-personal experience maybe? live and let live I say

p.s. you commented about my spelling in an earlier reply in this thread...........maybe you should look at the line

"You come here,you are not Tom Cruise,EITHER am I"

Mr. perfect duncan I,m sure it should have been NEITHER

but we all make mistakes................or do we

[cobbler]

Can I ask, a maybe silly, question ?

Why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a Thai girl ?

Maybe, back home, not too much success with the females ?

But come here, and now you believe you are Tom Cruise !

You come here, you are not Tom Cruise, either am I.

But so many insecure people come here to live the dream.

Sucked in, spat out, and then want sympathy ?

thai duncan

The subject of this thread started by the OP was "meeting thai women" you come into it by " can I ask, a maybe silly question...........why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a thai girl" the OP wanted help/assistance about how he may go about meeting a "decent" thai lady,he never mentions being "obsessed" if you cannot provide any usefull input why bother replying? you comment about "insecure people" what right have you got to make this assumption-personal experience maybe? live and let live I say

p.s. you commented about my spelling in an earlier reply in this thread...........maybe you should look at the line

"You come here,you are not Tom Cruise,EITHER am I"

Mr. perfect duncan I,m sure it should have been NEITHER

but we all make mistakes................or do we

pete milk . There were what i reckon were a couple of feminists bashing insults at me. But the posts were all deleted. 555. I just didnt get upset by the insults for i gather if they were so angry with me ,my life must be better than theres. Good enough for me. Grin grin

Some people dont get it. So nothing to do but insult.

Cheers Cobbler

[YeahSiam]

Can I ask, a maybe silly, question ?

Why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a Thai girl ?

Maybe, back home, not too much success with the females ?

But come here, and now you believe you are Tom Cruise !

You come here, you are not Tom Cruise, either am I.

But so many insecure people come here to live the dream.

Sucked in, spat out, and then want sympathy ?

thai duncan

The subject of this thread started by the OP was "meeting thai women" you come into it by " can I ask, a maybe silly question...........why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a thai girl" the OP wanted help/assistance about how he may go about meeting a "decent" thai lady,he never mentions being "obsessed" if you cannot provide any usefull input why bother replying? you comment about "insecure people" what right have you got to make this assumption-personal experience maybe? live and let live I say

p.s. you commented about my spelling in an earlier reply in this thread...........maybe you should look at the line

"You come here,you are not Tom Cruise,EITHER am I"

Mr. perfect duncan I,m sure it should have been NEITHER

but we all make mistakes................or do we

Some people dont get it. So nothing to do but insult.

Cheers Cobbler

And he still can't explain

what "it" is. Hahahahaaa

What you lack in clarity

you sure do make up for

with repetition.

That tactic might work

down the pub but not in

intelligent debate.

BTW, do you actually

know what a feminist is?

[cobbler]

You

Edited December 4, 2015 by cobbler

[cobbler]

Read back through you will find it. Its all there. Cheers Cobbler

[thaiduncankk]

Can I ask, a maybe silly, question ?

Why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a Thai girl ?

Maybe, back home, not too much success with the females ?

But come here, and now you believe you are Tom Cruise !

You come here, you are not Tom Cruise, either am I.

But so many insecure people come here to live the dream.

Sucked in, spat out, and then want sympathy ?

thai duncan

The subject of this thread started by the OP was "meeting thai women" you come into it by " can I ask, a maybe silly question...........why is everyone obsessed with having a relationship with a thai girl" the OP wanted help/assistance about how he may go about meeting a "decent" thai lady,he never mentions being "obsessed" if you cannot provide any usefull input why bother replying? you comment about "insecure people" what right have you got to make this assumption-personal experience maybe? live and let live I say

p.s. you commented about my spelling in an earlier reply in this thread...........maybe you should look at the line

"You come here,you are not Tom Cruise,EITHER am I"

Mr. perfect duncan I,m sure it should have been NEITHER

but we all make mistakes................or do we

Some people dont get it. So nothing to do but insult.

Cheers Cobbler

And he still can't explain

what "it" is. Hahahahaaa

What you lack in clarity

you sure do make up for

with repetition.

That tactic might work

down the pub but not in

intelligent debate.

BTW, do you actually

know what a feminist is?

Intelligent debate ???????

You are having a 'giraffe'.

This is Thai Visa is it not ?

[smotherb]

I believe I have a diamond compared to most of the other wives I have seen. However, I don’t own her, maybe that is part of your problem. My wife stays with me because she wants to—she says it is because she loves me. She has always been a contributor to our relationship instead of just taking from it. She likes to please me and does so at all times. I like to think I planned it that way because I have certain attributes I expect in a wife, just as I have expectations for a friend or a business associate. I want the trifecta—1) good heart, 2) good mind, and 3) good looks.

My wife was half my age when I first met her—my partner had just hired her as a junior bookkeeper. I soon saw she was smart, hard-working, and honest; as well as being good looking. I gave her additional duties, she excelled at all of them. I realized I had found someone special and we began a romantic relationship—yes romantic, I like it that way and so does she. She wanted to help me make a better life for us and our future family. She was eager to go abroad, learn about other cultures, develop needed skills, and become a mother.

She worshiped my mother and learned American culture and cooking from her. My mother loved her as much as she loved me. My wife’s English is impeccable and she has a multinational outlook on life. She completed her college education, had a career in negotiation management and has a good pension. Our son is now married to a Thai girl and they have a son—our only grandson. I think my son has also found a diamond, for my daughter-in-law also possesses the trifecta. My wife is now a wonderful grandmother, mother and wife. I can’t think of any other woman with whom I would rather be.

[smotherb]

From the overly nested post above: Also, women who can at least read and understand a decent amount of English are privy to information and ideas that are not made available in Thai language.

So can they also tell you what is a privy?

A privy is an outhouse, but to be privy is to be informed.

[smotherb]

It would seem this topic has been seriously derailed.

Its not about divorce/relationships or statistics of relationships in Australia, nor parental guidance and involvement in marriage.

The Topic is "Meeting Thai Women"

If you cant return to the topic, it can be closed.

I do not understand this logic. As long as posters are willing to continue the dialogue and do not violate the rules of civility, why not allow the posters to determine the direction of the discussion?

[JLCrab]

Oh -- and a privy council is when a bunch of bigshots all get together to make informed decisions in an outhouse??