Germany shifts position, will add might to military campaign against IS

[webfact]

Germany shifts position, will add might to military campaign against IS
Noah Barkin and Sabine Siebold

Berlin: Germany will join the military campaign against Islamic State militants in Syria by deploying Tornado reconnaissance jets, refuelling aircraft and a frigate to the region, after a direct appeal from close partner France for Berlin to do more.

The decision to commit military personnel and hardware is a shift for Germany, which has resisted such direct involvement in the conflict. It still has no plans to join France, the United States and Russia in conducting air strikes in Syria.

"Today the government took difficult but important and necessary decisions," German Defence Minister Ursula von der Leyen​ told reporters after meeting with legislators.

"We are standing with France, which was hit by these inhuman attacks from IS."

Chancellor Angela Merkel promised the support, which must still be approved by parliament, during talks with French President Francois Hollande in Paris on Wednesday.

Full story: http://www.smh.com.au/world/germany-shifts-position-will-add-might-to-military-campaign-against-is-20151127-gl9mgy.html


-- Sydney Morning Herald 2015-11-27

[webfact]

Germany’s Cabinet backs military support for fight against ISIL



BERLIN: -- Under pressure from Paris, Germany’s set to help in the fight against ISIL militants.

Tornado reconnaissance jets are being pledged, along with a warship to help protect France’s aircraft carrier in the eastern Mediterranean.

Tanker aircraft could help refuel warplanes in the air and satellite surveillance technology is also likely to be given.

“France asked for our help and we’ve talked about how we could respond to their request. Above all, we can provide three components: protection, reconnaissance and logistics,” said Ursula von der Leyen, German Defence Minister.

Chancellor Angela Merkel pledged the support during recent talks with French President Francois Hollande.

The support has now been backed by the Cabinet and is expected to win parliamentary approval next week.

The military move is a shift for Germany. But Berlin still has no plans to join France, the United States and Russia in carrying out air strikes in Syria.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2015-11-27

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[Hayduke]

How convenient...as has been noted, thanks to Ms. Merkel the German military can play their matches against ISIS at home.

Deployment of personnel and gear is cumbersome and expensive. Much easier (and cost effective) to have the opposing side come to you.

Clever move.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Hayduke

[facthailand]

Remember the lemmings? They're extinct, remember?

The knee-jerks in NATO all want to follow the Yanqui lemming into unwinnable, perpetual wars. Soon enough, the military controls the purse, the economy is in shambles, and the taxpayers foot the bill, not only financially but with their sons and daughters.

Stop with the misplaced pride, already! Just bring all troops home and let the others decide their own sovereignty. The US couldn't stop self-determination in Vietnam and it sure as hell can't now, either. They should think themselves lucky the Muslim world is so divided. If those folks united, that would solve foreign invasions for good!

[hawker9000]

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

[facthailand]

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

Edited November 27, 2015 by facthailand

[hawker9000]

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

"most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!"

OK, so terrorist sympathizer AND tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. I stand corrected. I know it's money in Big Pharma pockets, but some people DO need those meds!

Pssst - the violence HAS visited us at home. NYC. Boston. Now Paris. What, they have to be beating down your very own front door or what!!??

Please, no links now to nutjob conspiracy websites.

Edited November 27, 2015 by hawker9000

[Kevbo]

Might be a good idea to uninvite 1 million Muslim males !!

[tigermonkey]

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

Surely you can't believe that we need wait " until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people" . This is almost identical to the rhetoric during the early part of WWI and WWII. : framework of law" ? -- I presume that you mean Sharia Law by that point.

You have no memories, no sense of history. ? Do you know about September 11 ? You may have heard of September 11, 2001 --- or perhaps not, but I am speaking of September 11, 1683 when the combined European armies against all odds defeated the Muslims outside Vienna, and halted their attempted over-run of Europe. The Muslims, sensing that they might lose the battle, slaughtered 30,000 Christian prisoners. Sounds like "civilized people" and we should wait for them to visit "us at home"

More than 400 years and nothing has changed !.

[Publicus]

Regardless, while this is a shift of German policy towards terrorism and the ME, it is a token step.

Germany feels obligated to respond to the strong appeals of France to do something. So Merkel and her people came up with providing "protection, recon, logistics.' No airstrikes however which comes up short no matter who in Nato is demanding them, to include Germany's historical neighbor France.

Fact is Germany has very quietly had a couple of dozen kommandos in against ISIS way back when the US first began assisting rebels it chose to support against Assad. German kommandos have been low profile alongside US special ops troops there for a couple of years at the least. Early this year Germany made its first public statement in this respect:: German defence minister, Ursula Von Der Leyen said: “I believe it’s right to extend our support with great care,” adding, “we know that the Peshmerga [Kurdish fighters] aren’t just fighting for their own country but for all of us.” Germany is expected to send 100 military trainers to the Kurdistan region, after a vote in favour of the move last December.

The fact Putin is in the middle of this and has consistently hit US Coalition supported rebels while largely ignoring ISIS makes the effort a tough one to carry through. Putin got a swift kick from Erdogan for bombing ethnic Turk Syrian anti-Assad nationals at the border day in and day out. Now Putin is placing missiles that have reach into Nato's southern perimeter and are very close to the Turkish border.

This move by Germany does nothing for Putin directly, if anything at all. It helps France whose only active buddy in this is Putin. The real question is how much longer Hollande is going to fumble around trying to create an impossible global coalition dominated by the impossible Putin. The US has 65 countries in its anti-Assad/ISIS coalition and commands Nato. Washington stands by Erdogan. Putin has Assad, the ayatollahs with Hizbollah, Hollande. Cameron is busy doing a London juggling act and show.

[Rancid]

Perhaps the Germans will need a new corps for its ME operations, wonder if they will use Africa Korps?

All this while the Japanese are also being resurrected to send their Navy into those Chinese built islands.

Things are certainly getting interesting.

[nealthewheel]

Great reference to history and the date picked for 9/11 was chosen on purpose as this is a date in jihad history that still sticks in Islamic minds that the "Infidel" did the impossible and defeated them!! From that date Europe began is rise to Enlightenment, Discovery and the Industrial Revolution and left Islam in its wake. They teach a different history in Islamic countries. I traveled extensively over the Middle East by land in the 70's and 80's when it was still possible and in some tea houses in Turkey they talked about the Crusades as if it was yesterday. Islam has always had an extreme "wing" to carry out its policy of world conversion to its ideology. Look into how they have terrorised the lands of Mediterranean for centuries by enslaving 10,000s through this time. Islam perpetuates slavery to this day and you - those of you that give them sympathy should really rethink that sensitivity is not respected by their ideology - if it were they would make some overture to talk to the Western world instead of trying to using tactics of terror. And finally we didn't start the modern bullying of the Islamic world - they have been at odds with us since the state of Israel was created. It began with their inability to live alongside the Jewish state. The resentment in the Islamic world towards the west runs high and that you can take to the bank! And it is so strong they have morphed into allowing IS to carry out their foreign policy - I give it perhaps 5 years and the backlash in Europe will be irreversible and Islam will regret once again taking on the West.

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

Surely you can't believe that we need wait " until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people" . This is almost identical to the rhetoric during the early part of WWI and WWII. : framework of law" ? -- I presume that you mean Sharia Law by that point.

You have no memories, no sense of history. ? Do you know about September 11 ? You may have heard of September 11, 2001 --- or perhaps not, but I am speaking of September 11, 1683 when the combined European armies against all odds defeated the Muslims outside Vienna, and halted their attempted over-run of Europe. The Muslims, sensing that they might lose the battle, slaughtered 30,000 Christian prisoners. Sounds like "civilized people" and we should wait for them to visit "us at home"

More than 400 years and nothing has changed !.

Edited November 28, 2015 by nealthewheel

[Publicus]

Perhaps the Germans will need a new corps for its ME operations, wonder if they will use Africa Korps?

All this while the Japanese are also being resurrected to send their Navy into those Chinese built islands.

Things are certainly getting interesting.

Amazing isn't it. The post World War II Era.

Post Deng Xiaoping People's Republic of China. The post Soviet Union of Moscow and the world of Putin's Russia.

Germany is a Nato allied democracy with regular elections, human rights, and is at the core of the European Union to include the European Monetary Union.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan speaks regularly of a "Democracy Diamond." Abe's felt tip pen draws from Hawaii to Australia to India, back through Asean, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan....back out to Hawaii, USA.

Beijing is drilling oil in southern Iraq completely free of any ISIS interference or obstruction.

Welcome to the 21st century.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Publicus

[hawker9000]

Great reference to history and the date picked for 9/11 was chosen on purpose as this is a date in jihad history that still sticks in Islamic minds that the "Infidel" did the impossible and defeated them!! From that date Europe began is rise to Enlightenment, Discovery and the Industrial Revolution and left Islam in its wake. They teach a different history in Islamic countries. I traveled extensively over the Middle East by land in the 70's and 80's when it was still possible and in some tea houses in Turkey they talked about the Crusades as if it was yesterday. Islam has always had an extreme "wing" to carry out its policy of world conversion to its ideology. Look into how they have terrorised the lands of Mediterranean for centuries by enslaving 10,000s through this time. Islam perpetuates slavery to this day and you - those of you that give them sympathy should really rethink that sensitivity is not respected by their ideology - if it were they would make some overture to talk to the Western world instead of trying to using tactics of terror. And finally we didn't start the modern bullying of the Islamic world - they have been at odds with us since the state of Israel was created. It began with their inability to live alongside the Jewish state. The resentment in the Islamic world towards the west runs high and that you can take to the bank! And it is so strong they have morphed into allowing IS to carry out their foreign policy - I give it perhaps 5 years and the backlash in Europe will be irreversible and Islam will regret once again taking on the West.

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

Surely you can't believe that we need wait " until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people" . This is almost identical to the rhetoric during the early part of WWI and WWII. : framework of law" ? -- I presume that you mean Sharia Law by that point.

You have no memories, no sense of history. ? Do you know about September 11 ? You may have heard of September 11, 2001 --- or perhaps not, but I am speaking of September 11, 1683 when the combined European armies against all odds defeated the Muslims outside Vienna, and halted their attempted over-run of Europe. The Muslims, sensing that they might lose the battle, slaughtered 30,000 Christian prisoners. Sounds like "civilized people" and we should wait for them to visit "us at home"

More than 400 years and nothing has changed !.

If the Islamic world is so resentful about this history, maybe they should include the prior 400 years (i.e., beginning in 630AD) of muslim conquest - to which the Christian Crusades were actually a reaction - in their historical studies. Naturally, terrorist sympathizers and apologists for muslim extremism, never mention this in their mindless repetition of the usual scripted talking points. Osama Bin Laden himself liked to quote Khalid al-Wali, an early, and particularly bloody & brutal "muslim crusader" in saying that his fighters love death more than "we in the West" love life. Edited November 28, 2015 by hawker9000

[Publicus]

Great reference to history and the date picked for 9/11 was chosen on purpose as this is a date in jihad history that still sticks in Islamic minds that the "Infidel" did the impossible and defeated them!! From that date Europe began is rise to Enlightenment, Discovery and the Industrial Revolution and left Islam in its wake. They teach a different history in Islamic countries. I traveled extensively over the Middle East by land in the 70's and 80's when it was still possible and in some tea houses in Turkey they talked about the Crusades as if it was yesterday. Islam has always had an extreme "wing" to carry out its policy of world conversion to its ideology. Look into how they have terrorised the lands of Mediterranean for centuries by enslaving 10,000s through this time. Islam perpetuates slavery to this day and you - those of you that give them sympathy should really rethink that sensitivity is not respected by their ideology - if it were they would make some overture to talk to the Western world instead of trying to using tactics of terror. And finally we didn't start the modern bullying of the Islamic world - they have been at odds with us since the state of Israel was created. It began with their inability to live alongside the Jewish state. The resentment in the Islamic world towards the west runs high and that you can take to the bank! And it is so strong they have morphed into allowing IS to carry out their foreign policy - I give it perhaps 5 years and the backlash in Europe will be irreversible and Islam will regret once again taking on the West.

What nonsense. Equating intimidation, terror, and international atrocities with "self-determination". Amazing how easy it is to find terrorist sympathizers.

Hawker, I've got no sympathies except against killing people, innocent or not. Terrorism is our drones, and bombs, and snipers. Violent extremists didn't target the West until we started bullying them, to no apparent purpose thus far.

All I'm saying is, let them work it out. It's none of our business until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people. in the US anyway most of the "terror plots" have been instigated by the FBI!

Surely you can't believe that we need wait " until violence visits us at home. Then we deal with the perpetrators at home with a framework of law like civilised people" . This is almost identical to the rhetoric during the early part of WWI and WWII. : framework of law" ? -- I presume that you mean Sharia Law by that point.

You have no memories, no sense of history. ? Do you know about September 11 ? You may have heard of September 11, 2001 --- or perhaps not, but I am speaking of September 11, 1683 when the combined European armies against all odds defeated the Muslims outside Vienna, and halted their attempted over-run of Europe. The Muslims, sensing that they might lose the battle, slaughtered 30,000 Christian prisoners. Sounds like "civilized people" and we should wait for them to visit "us at home"

More than 400 years and nothing has changed !.

The perspective that is stated but put way up there above the nestled quotes is pretty well presented. Its huge failure is to omit US Muslims from mention as not being a part of the history provided in the link. It's otherwise pretty good.

For too much information about The Other September 11th -- the September 11th of 1683 at the see-saw Battle of Vienna against the 200,000 warriors of the Muslim Turk armies bent on conquering Europe....

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/980567/posts

[Scott]

Some off-topic posts removed. Please stay on topic.