Fined 800 baths for 30 days extension of Tourist Visa

[alexlm]

Hello,

I went to Siracha immigration to pay 1900 baths and add 30 days to my second entry of double entry tourist visa.

The officer made a lot of problems, asked to call the owner of my condo via Line, asked him to come from Bangkok to Siracha today, or I could not get my extension...etc...

Then he made me pay 800 baths for a fine, because I would be "late" about something. My condo owner should have done something or a problem like that.

The thing is, It's my first time I go to Siracha. Usually I do it in Pattaya or Sisaket and the process for extension is simple: pay 1900 baths + 20 for copies, and that's all.

Why so many problems today?

Thank you for your answers.

PS: Another Farang girl wanted an extension too, Officer asked her to call her house owner. She said she has no credit in her phone to call. The officer answered "then you can not get extension, you will overstay".

Really a crazy morning for me today

Are the rules getting harder, or is it just a bad office (Siracha)?

[elviajero]

You or our landlord should have submitted a TM30 form to immigration when you moved in. This is a long standing law that immigration are enforcing moe often these days. The fine can be up to 2,000 baht.

Foreign tourists used to stay in hotels but now they rent Condos. Go figure!

Immigration act

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

[ubonjoe]

You were fined for the owner not reporting your presence within 24 hours of your arrival by submitting a TM30 form.

There have been several reports of some immigration offices enforcing the rule for all extensions.

[alexlm]

You were fined for the owner not reporting your presence within 24 hours of your arrival by submitting a TM30 form.

There have been several reports of some immigration offices enforcing the rule for all extensions.

Thank you ubonjoe.

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

[ubonjoe]

You were fined for the owner not reporting your presence within 24 hours of your arrival by submitting a TM30 form.

There have been several reports of some immigration offices enforcing the rule for all extensions.

Thank you ubonjoe.

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

It depends upon what the immigration office wants. Some say it must be done every time a person enters the country and others not.

IMO the rules do not say it needs to be done. It should be a one time thing.

[Digitalnomade]

Pattaya said no need. just when you want a 30 days extension.

[elviajero]

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

Technically yes but you should ask the immigration office as they might not insist on it every time.

If you are renting the condo you are equally responsible as the POSSESSOR and can submit the report yourself. They might, however, insist that the owner/landlord does it or ask for a signed copy of their ID/house book when you do it. As the possessor you can be fined so it's in your interest to make sure the landlord complies.

Private residences are under the same rules as hotels/guesthouses. Every time you move in a report should be made to immigration. If you were to stay in a hotel for a few days and return to the condo a report should be made (rarely enforced). I assume that as a border run shows you exiting the country and ending your stay that the rules reset on your new entry/permit to stay even though you are returning to the same address.

[Briggsy]

I use Sri Racha. Though I almost never do TV extensions. It is usually for certificates of residence concerning vehicle registration.

Anyway, the one and only time I did do a Tourist Visa extension at Sri Racha, I was asked repeatedly if I was working in Thailand. I do not work in Thailand. It seemed a mad conversation. Even the officer thought it was mad, it was as if she was acting a part she had been instructed to do.

So, thanks for the information. I have no idea if my condo owner (never met her - she's about 77 years old) has ever filed a T.M. 30. I will bear this in mind if I ever do a TV extension at Sri Racha.

[Tolley]

A friend of mine had the same sort of thing happen in Jomtien last week.

He was extending his entry visa for a month and they insisted on proof of residence so he had to go back and get some paperwork done before they would grant an extension.

The thing is many people on holidays travel around and stay at many different places so this rule is just bureaucracy gone mad.

Apparently it is the new norm in Jomtien to get any visa extension.

[kbelyeu]

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

Technically yes but you should ask the immigration office as they might not insist on it every time.

If you are renting the condo you are equally responsible as the POSSESSOR and can submit the report yourself. They might, however, insist that the owner/landlord does it or ask for a signed copy of their ID/house book when you do it. As the possessor you can be fined so it's in your interest to make sure the landlord complies.

Private residences are under the same rules as hotels/guesthouses. Every time you move in a report should be made to immigration. If you were to stay in a hotel for a few days and return to the condo a report should be made (rarely enforced). I assume that as a border run shows you exiting the country and ending your stay that the rules reset on your new entry/permit to stay even though you are returning to the same address.

Only the owner of the premises is required to submit the TM30. You a foreigner are not required to submit the TM30 unless you are also the owner.

Kurt

[elviajero]

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

Technically yes but you should ask the immigration office as they might not insist on it every time.

If you are renting the condo you are equally responsible as the POSSESSOR and can submit the report yourself. They might, however, insist that the owner/landlord does it or ask for a signed copy of their ID/house book when you do it. As the possessor you can be fined so it's in your interest to make sure the landlord complies.

Private residences are under the same rules as hotels/guesthouses. Every time you move in a report should be made to immigration. If you were to stay in a hotel for a few days and return to the condo a report should be made (rarely enforced). I assume that as a border run shows you exiting the country and ending your stay that the rules reset on your new entry/permit to stay even though you are returning to the same address.

Only the owner of the premises is required to submit the TM30. You a foreigner are not required to submit the TM30 unless you are also the owner.

Kurt

That is not correct.

The owner is always responsible. But anyone considered a house-master or possessor can be jointly responsible with the owner. For example a Thai is renting a house from an owner and her foreign husband lives with her at the address. The wife would be considered the house-master (tenant) and either her or the owner are responsible for submitting the TM30.

A foreigner renting a privately owned condo is considered a possessor and is equally responsible with the owner.

[Jessi]

Once again different rules coming out of the Immigration office, it all depends on what office you go to and the Immigration officer you see.

No rules are set in concrete here.

[kbelyeu]

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

Technically yes but you should ask the immigration office as they might not insist on it every time.

If you are renting the condo you are equally responsible as the POSSESSOR and can submit the report yourself. They might, however, insist that the owner/landlord does it or ask for a signed copy of their ID/house book when you do it. As the possessor you can be fined so it's in your interest to make sure the landlord complies.

Private residences are under the same rules as hotels/guesthouses. Every time you move in a report should be made to immigration. If you were to stay in a hotel for a few days and return to the condo a report should be made (rarely enforced). I assume that as a border run shows you exiting the country and ending your stay that the rules reset on your new entry/permit to stay even though you are returning to the same address.

Only the owner of the premises is required to submit the TM30. You a foreigner are not required to submit the TM30 unless you are also the owner.

Kurt

That is not correct.

The owner is always responsible. But anyone considered a house-master or possessor can be jointly responsible with the owner. For example a Thai is renting a house from an owner and her foreign husband lives with her at the address. The wife would be considered the house-master (tenant) and either her or the owner are responsible for submitting the TM30.

A foreigner renting a privately owned condo is considered a possessor and is equally responsible with the owner.

I disagree. There are no reported instances where a foreigner was fined for NOT reporting himself using a TM30 when he was RENTING a property.

Kurt

[elviajero]

Only the owner of the premises is required to submit the TM30. You a foreigner are not required to submit the TM30 unless you are also the owner.

Kurt

That is not correct.

The owner is always responsible. But anyone considered a house-master or possessor can be jointly responsible with the owner. For example a Thai is renting a house from an owner and her foreign husband lives with her at the address. The wife would be considered the house-master (tenant) and either her or the owner are responsible for submitting the TM30.

A foreigner renting a privately owned condo is considered a possessor and is equally responsible with the owner.

I disagree. There are no reported instances where a foreigner was fined for NOT reporting himself using a TM30 when he was RENTING a property.

Kurt

I prefer to get my information from written law and from speaking to immigration officers rather than relying solely on reports on forums. Whether or not your claim is true it doesn't change the law. The law is clear. The only issue is with the inconsistent enforcement of the law.

If a foreigner is renting they occupy the property as the possessor.

Possessor;

LAW

"a person who takes, occupies, or holds something without necessarily having ownership, or as distinguished from the owner."

The immigration law (section 38) says that the house-master OR owner OR possessor are responsible for reporting.

The OP was fined 800 baht and is presumably renting!

[AlGoRhythm]

Is there any requirement to make this report (TM30) when one is the owner of the accommodation?

thanks, Al

[ubonjoe]

Is there any requirement to make this report (TM30) when one is the owner of the accommodation?

thanks, Al

Yes

Some immigration offices want you to report yourself.

[kbelyeu]

I disagree. There are no reported instances where a foreigner was fined for NOT reporting himself using a TM30 when he was RENTING a property.

Kurt

I prefer to get my information from written law and from speaking to immigration officers rather than relying solely on reports on forums. Whether or not your claim is true it doesn't change the law. The law is clear. The only issue is with the inconsistent enforcement of the law.

If a foreigner is renting they occupy the property as the possessor.

Possessor;

LAW

"a person who takes, occupies, or holds something without necessarily having ownership, or as distinguished from the owner."

The immigration law (section 38) says that the house-master OR owner OR possessor are responsible for reporting.

The OP was fined 800 baht and is presumably renting!

You state matter of fact yet you do not have links to the specific laws only second hand information from immigration officers.

Kurt

[elviajero]

Is there any requirement to make this report (TM30) when one is the owner of the accommodation?

thanks, Al

Yes but whether it's enforced will depend on your local immigration office.

The purpose of the law is for immigration to keep a track on where foreigners are, so someone is supposed to submit a TM30 whenever a foreigner stays at any address. If you're the owner and the foreigner you are still responsible.

[elviajero]

I prefer to get my information from written law and from speaking to immigration officers rather than relying solely on reports on forums. Whether or not your claim is true it doesn't change the law. The law is clear. The only issue is with the inconsistent enforcement of the law.

If a foreigner is renting they occupy the property as the possessor.

Possessor;

LAW

"a person who takes, occupies, or holds something without necessarily having ownership, or as distinguished from the owner."

The immigration law (section 38) says that the house-master OR owner OR possessor are responsible for reporting.

The OP was fined 800 baht and is presumably renting!

You state matter of fact yet you do not have links to the specific laws only second hand information from immigration officers.

Kurt

I quoted the law in post #2. Here it is with a link to the source.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/doc/Immigration_Act.pdf

[nidieunimaitre]

Only the owner of the premises is required to submit the TM30. You a foreigner are not required to submit the TM30 unless you are also the owner.

Kurt

That is not correct.

The owner is always responsible. But anyone considered a house-master or possessor can be jointly responsible with the owner. For example a Thai is renting a house from an owner and her foreign husband lives with her at the address. The wife would be considered the house-master (tenant) and either her or the owner are responsible for submitting the TM30.

A foreigner renting a privately owned condo is considered a possessor and is equally responsible with the owner.

I prefer to get my information from written law and from speaking to immigration officers rather than relying solely on reports on forums. Whether or not your claim is true it doesn't change the law. The law is clear. The only issue is with the inconsistent enforcement of the law.

If a foreigner is renting they occupy the property as the possessor.

Possessor;

LAW

"a person who takes, occupies, or holds something without necessarily having ownership, or as distinguished from the owner."

The immigration law (section 38) says that the house-master OR owner OR possessor are responsible for reporting.

The OP was fined 800 baht and is presumably renting!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

What is the difference between a hotel room and an apartment?

If a tourist rents a hotel room for 1 week, is he then the "possessor"?

If so, is he jointly responsible with the hotel for submitting a tm30?

At the extreme, staying 1 night, and the hotel did not submit a tm30, can the tourist be fined?

We urgently need clarification from the top of immigration!

[BritTim]

Does he have to report my presence again every time I'll do my visa/border runs?

Technically yes but you should ask the immigration office as they might not insist on it every time.

If you are renting the condo you are equally responsible as the POSSESSOR and can submit the report yourself. They might, however, insist that the owner/landlord does it or ask for a signed copy of their ID/house book when you do it. As the possessor you can be fined so it's in your interest to make sure the landlord complies.

Private residences are under the same rules as hotels/guesthouses. Every time you move in a report should be made to immigration. If you were to stay in a hotel for a few days and return to the condo a report should be made (rarely enforced). I assume that as a border run shows you exiting the country and ending your stay that the rules reset on your new entry/permit to stay even though you are returning to the same address.

Technically, it has to be done every time you spend a night away from home. The law today is nutty. It did make some sense 100 years ago when people traveled a lot less.

[elviajero]

What is the difference between a hotel room and an apartment?

If a tourist rents a hotel room for 1 week, is he then the "possessor"?

If so, is he jointly responsible with the hotel for submitting a tm30?

At the extreme, staying 1 night, and the hotel did not submit a tm30, can the tourist be fined?

We urgently need clarification from the top of immigration!

• Hotel and guesthouse managers are responsible for the TM30 not the foreigner (guest).
• No the tourist cannot be fined for not submitting a TM30 if staying in a hotel.

[paz]

• Hotel and guesthouse managers are responsible for the TM30 not the foreigner (guest).
• No the tourist cannot be fined for not submitting a TM30 if staying in a hotel

You are still spreading this misinformation. The foreigner is never responsible for filing a TM30 unless he is the master on the housebook. Certainly not when he's renting. Fining the foreigner is just an abuse plain and simple.

[IMA_FARANG]

I use Sri Racha. Though I almost never do TV extensions. It is usually for certificates of residence concerning vehicle registration.

Anyway, the one and only time I did do a Tourist Visa extension at Sri Racha, I was asked repeatedly if I was working in Thailand. I do not work in Thailand. It seemed a mad conversation. Even the officer thought it was mad, it was as if she was acting a part she had been instructed to do.

So, thanks for the information. I have no idea if my condo owner (never met her - she's about 77 years old) has ever filed a T.M. 30. I will bear this in mind if I ever do a TV extension at Sri Racha.

---------------------------------

I would bet the real problem Is that the condo owner is not reporting you as living there with the TM 30 form as she should because she is also not reporting your INCOME for the rent you paid for that condo you rented to the tax people either.

Just call me a suspicious old f-rt.

In Thailand you should always first find who got the money or kickback and start tracing from there.

[OJAS]

Once again different rules coming out of the Immigration office, it all depends on what office you go to and the Immigration officer you see.

No rules are set in concrete here.

Sri Racha in particular have a number of peculiar rules. For example, I gather that they require completed medical certificates as a condition of granting retirement extensions. The OP would probably be best advised to steer well clear of them in future, if at all possible.

[LivinLOS]

• Hotel and guesthouse managers are responsible for the TM30 not the foreigner (guest).
• No the tourist cannot be fined for not submitting a TM30 if staying in a hotel

You are still spreading this misinformation. The foreigner is never responsible for filing a TM30 unless he is the master on the housebook. Certainly not when he's renting. Fining the foreigner is just an abuse plain and simple.

Abuse it may be.. but this is what they are doing..

Refusing to take a TM28 without the paired TM30..

Fining thai wives of farangs for not reporting, when they are not the house owner..

Just spent a few hours wrangling a TM28 report without a fine.. Only worked because I lied and said I was away from town a few weeks.

[alexlm]

Once again different rules coming out of the Immigration office, it all depends on what office you go to and the Immigration officer you see.

No rules are set in concrete here.

Sri Racha in particular have a number of peculiar rules. For example, I gather that they require completed medical certificates as a condition of granting retirement extensions. The OP would probably be best advised to steer well clear of them in future, if at all possible.

I guess I'll go to Pattaya/Jomtien next time. I never had such problems there.

[moe666]

Once again different rules coming out of the Immigration office, it all depends on what office you go to and the Immigration officer you see.

No rules are set in concrete here.

Not different rules different levels of enforcement

[jollyhangmon]

• Hotel and guesthouse managers are responsible for the TM30 not the foreigner (guest).
• No the tourist cannot be fined for not submitting a TM30 if staying in a hotel

You are still spreading this misinformation. The foreigner is never responsible for filing a TM30 unless he is the master on the housebook. Certainly not when he's renting. Fining the foreigner is just an abuse plain and simple.

According to a lawyer i asked about this irritating matter & who checked the Thai-version of that law you are dead right.

Nobody who is just 'renting' is responsible for submitting this TM-30.

Go figure!

[elviajero]

• Hotel and guesthouse managers are responsible for the TM30 not the foreigner (guest).
• No the tourist cannot be fined for not submitting a TM30 if staying in a hotel

You are still spreading this misinformation. The foreigner is never responsible for filing a TM30 unless he is the master on the housebook. Certainly not when he's renting. Fining the foreigner is just an abuse plain and simple.

According to a lawyer i asked about this irritating matter & who checked the Thai-version of that law you are dead right.

Nobody who is just 'renting' is responsible for submitting this TM-30.

Go figure!

Of course lawyers and Paz are never wrong!

Anyone renting can be considered the Possessor of the property regardless of nationality. A possessor of a property can be fined if either the owner or the possessor fail to submit the TM30 because the law says so. Try speaking to immigration officers.