FBAR, Foreign Bank Account Reporting for U.S. foreign residents

[Dillpickles98]

As all Americans should know anytime a foreign bank account or total of bank accounts exceeds 10,000.00 USD it must be reported by June 30 of the following yr. to IRS. As of 2013 it can only be done online.

I have download the IRS FBAR Reference Guide and watched the video at: https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Report-of-Foreign-Bank-and-Financial-Accounts-FBAR aswell emailed them, though yet to recieve an answer.

Thought I might get a definitive answer here, or atleast someone who would know for sure where I might get that answer.

My wife held a Green Card, and has a Social Security card. We have joint accounts both in the U.S. and here in Thailand, she maintained her maiden name, has a Thai I.D. as well as passport in that name. She also has an account in the U.S. only in her Thai name. All of our account are linked both U.S. & Thai

Now the question, if she opens another Thai account only in her name, am I required to report ACH transfers between her U.S. bank and her Thai bank, both only in her name? As I would have no signature authority over either accounts and is in no way connected to me. She does not meet the definition of what is called a "Person of U.S." as she no longer holds the Green Card, and is not a U.S. citizen

The idea is not to have report accounts in excess of $10,000 for funds just sitting in the bank, but available if need be. I would transfer $$$ to her U.S. bank account, then she would transfer the funds to her Thai account. thus I remain hands free, and believe not required to report it.

So a little help would be appreciated

Thanks, DP

[Gonsalviz]

You really weren't counting on an answer were you?

I mean from the IRS.

Edited December 6, 2015 by Gonsalviz

[Utley]

Based on the "spirit" of the regulation, I would report all bank accounts including the one you described above.

[Dillpickles98]

You really weren't counting on an answer were you?

I mean from the IRS.

Well I kinda didn't think I'd get a reply from the IRS here.

[Srikcir]

I found the following, maybe you can make some professional contacts:

"Now, the other question we get quite a bit is what if my spouse is not a US citizen or not a US person or entity. Now, in these cases, you don’t have to report their foreign financial accounts if you don’t have signing authority over them. So if your spouse is not a US person and they own financial accounts, bank accounts, brokerage accounts overseas that you don’t have access to, that you don’t have signing authority over, then those accounts do not need to be reported." http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/need-report-spouses-account-fbar/

But if you file a joint US tax return with your spouse, things may get a little complicated as to options for FBA. ref. I.J. Zemelman, EA,

http://www.taxesforexpats.com/articles/expat-tax-rules/tax-return-with-foreign-spouse.html

[Dillpickles98]

Thanks Srikcir. My wife had no income while we were in the U.S. but we do file taxes jointly, of course to reduce my tax liability. Watched the video, it appears I do, (as I have done) have to include her in my FBAR since we file jointly in her married name, but her personal U.S. account is in her Thai maiden name. So if she were to open another Thai account transfers would be from her U.S account to her Thai account in her Thai name only.

The only problem I see is since transactions over $10,000.00 are reported, if I transfered say $9,000.00 from our joint account in both our married U.S. names to her U.S. personal account in her Thai name only, then she in turn transferred it to her Thai account here that would release me from having any signature authority over it.

I have filed FBAR in the past, but now online it's a pain I try to avoid by not having more than $10K in any Thai bank accounts at any one time. Occasionally I slip up, those are the times I had to file it.

My wife neither reads or writes English, and speaks little of it, with no computer skills in it, and little concern for matters of money. My reason for wanting to do this is, should something happen to me she would have $$$ here as well as access to our U.S. & Thai ATM cards. My situation is further complicate by the fact I was a city employee which will only deposit my retirement in a U.S. bank and I must have an address local to that bank. Fortunately I have friends that make the trip every 3 mos. who bring our ATM & credit cards, (though never used them more than necessary to keep them activated), my mail, and anything ordered on eBay. We do have a Will in both English & Thai but I can't be sure how long it would take to finalize, and send her survivor's benefits here.

Thanks for the useful info.

DP

[DogNo1]

Your wife has a US Social Security number and you file your taxes jointly so her foreign bank accounts should be reported. What's so onerous? I file my FBAR online once a year and it takes me about ten minutes. Have you looked at the penalties for not filing? What's ten minutes of your time to avoid the possibility of 50% or more of your assets being seized?

[Dillpickles98]

Hi DogNo1, Yes have looked at the penalties, they are heavy indeed, just looking for a way to fly under the radar legally without risk if possible without problems. Have read about citizens in the U.S. having there account seized because of perceived violations, fighting for yrs. to have their funds returned. I am not in a position to go to war with the IRS over what is rightfully mine. What I read so far is it maybe legal to do it my way, possibly with risks. maybe just my interpretations of the law, which could be wrong. With risk I am not willing to take .

I would prefer not drawing any attention to myself, Seems you bring some common sense to the table, when I had filed online instantant reply that it was accepted. Maybe if I want the $$$ here for an emergency, just better get use to the idea of reporting every year. Like filing taxes

I thing I better take your advice to heart, I am great for making my own aggravations, stupid to gamble with scared money.

I will take your advice under serious consideration, and add it to the list of aggravations of living in Thailand.

Thanks

DP

[DogNo1]

Good luck, DP. It's really only a minor aggravation, right?

[Dillpickles98]

Yeah , I guess, I'm old and resistant change, but better get use to it.

Thanks.

DP

[Dillpickles98]

Thanks to all who provided useful info to my thread. I received an answer from SBSE FBAR <[email protected] today. It reads as follows, for anyone wishing to know. As I read it, my wife does not met any of three criteria listed, therefore I would not be required to file for her. If anyone reads something different in my situations as I have posted please reply.

DP

*SBSE FBAR Form <[email protected]>

To 'Dillpickles98' Today at 8:29 PM

Dear Madan\Sir,

If none of the three criteria listed below applies, then the person is not a US Resident for FBAR purposes. Thus, If one of the criteria applies, and the foreign account(s) exceeds the threshold, a FinCEN Form 114 FBAR is required to be E-filed.

Section 7701

(1). Green card test ~ individuals who at any time during the calendar year have been lawfully granted the privilege of residing permanently in the U.S. under the immigration laws automatically meet the definition of resident alien and the green card test; or

(2). Individual who are not lawful permanent resident are defined as resident aliens under the Substantial-Presence Test for and meet the specification contained in IRC 7701 ((3) ; to meet the Substantial Presence Test for the calendar year (January 1 to December 31), individuals must be physically present in the U.S., for at least 31 days during the current year, and at least 183 days during the three year period that includes the current year and the two immediately preceding years.

The following are exempted individuals ~ do not count days in US (Pub 519)

A or G visa – an individual temporarily present in the US as a foreign government- related

J or Q visa – a teacher or trainee temporarily present in the US who substantially complies with the requirement of the visa

F, J, M or Q visa – a student temporarily present in the US who substantially complies with the requirement of the visa

A professional athlete temporarily present in the US to compete in a charitable event

(3). The person files a first year election on his income tax return to be treated as a resident alien under IRC 7701(b)4.

Wanda Hampton

Edited December 7, 2015 by Dillpickles98

[rakman]

One answer from an IRS person does not make a final answer. You could resubmit the question and probably get a different answer.

Ask some of the various people who have (wealthy) spouses in foreign countries and have given up their US citizenship because the IRS wants financial information on the spouses. Tina Turner is married to a Swiss resident and now she's Swiss too, giving up her US citizenship.

A US woman gave up her citzenship to be with her Canadian husband because the IRS wanted detailed financial information from her husband.

You may be able to stay under the radar, but eventually the IRS will be knocking on your door.

[Dillpickles98]

Hi rakman, thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I read where more than ever before wealthy Americans are giving up their citizenship to avoid high taxation, though able to maintain property in the U.S. so long as property tax is paid. Which doesn't relieve them from reporting to FBAR. because they exceed the limit of 10K$. I would assume those people have expert tax consultants. FBAR is not resource for applying any tax, it's just admitting to the IRS that you have foreign holdings.

I do have a wealthy friend of 35 yrs. I don't know how much you would have to have to pay 1M$ in federal tax but he does. An attorney, been retired since we met. Lived together in his house in Santa Monica Ca. for two years, but he does as I do, stays under 10K$ in a Thai bank to avoid FBAR filing. It's safe to assume he has other resources for more holdings in Thailand, but legally, maybe in gold, or other securities not reportable. He travels every three mos. to the U.S. and has for the last 30 yrs.

Unfortunately he would not be the person to ask, as he does have a longtime girlfriend brought her twice to U.S.. How he managed to get two K-1 Fiance visas, a mystery to me, he could not pull the trigger and marry her legally. (Community property issues). She was denied a tourist visa, though I am sure she met the requirement of atleast 2.5M THB in property or business holdings. I was able to secure a 10 yr. tourist visa for my wife, although she owns nothing, based on the fact her survivor's benefits are only payable to her here in Thailand, I have had 6 Married 'O' visas in Thailand, 3 making me eligible for permanent residency.

I would never settle on the word of one FINCEN representative even if her reply is a direct quote of the regulations, which I think it is. I would have to read them myself and have a consultant verify them, which to date I haven't done. I have read and watched all the info provided at the IRS website and that provided by srikcir. But I must have proof beyond a shadow of a doubt before I go ahead, then too I am talking about less than 10K$ even if she did fit the criteria as listed. Unless I don't then I'll just go ahead as DogN01 suggest and file every year.

Thanks for your input.

DP

Edited December 8, 2015 by Dillpickles98

[sas_cars]

What about dual US- Thai Nationals who live in Thailand? Do they have to report their incomes or bank accounts which are opened here with Thai ID card?

[Pib]

What about dual US- Thai Nationals who live in Thailand? Do they have to report their incomes or bank accounts which are opened here with Thai ID card?

Yes, since they are also a U.S. citizen. Same FBAR rules apply. Also being a Thai citizen does not negate U.S. citizen requirements (or vice versa).

[Rama]

I see a misunderstanding running through this thread. The FBAR requirement is not an IRS requirement or form. The FBAR requirement is a US Treasury Dept. requirement, not an IRS requirement. Its purpose is to track funds held overseas by US citizens. If you wife is not a US citizen, there is no requirement.

[Pib]

If Thai bank suspects a person has any citizenship other that Thai (such as any farang walking in the door) during an account opening the bank will whipout a questionnaire for the person's completion and signing which asks if he/she is holds dual citizenship and if one of those dual citizenship is U.S. citizenship. If answering yes in that one of the citizenships is U.S., the bank will then provide you another form where you must enter you U.S. social security number/TIN and sign it. Both forms relate to the bank's due diligence & reporting requirements under FATCA. The bank will then keep these forms on record.

If the U.S. citizen also holding another citizenship such as Thai knowing completes the questionnaire that he/she does not hold U.S. citizenship when he/she does indeed hold U.S. citizenship, then he/she is basically violating U.S. financial reporting/tax laws which may come back to bite hard some day.

The accounts of those with dual citizenship with one of those citizenships being U.S., say a Thai and U.S. citizen, will then be handled in accordance with FATCA requirements in that yearly the account info will be reported to the IRS in accordance with the agreement signed between that country and the U.S.

FBAR is a form a U.S. person must use to report annually to an office (not the IRS) within U.S. Treasury Dept if he/she has an foreign financial account which exceeded $10K at any time during the year. Banks are not involved in any way in this FBAR reporting. If not solely owning and/or jointly owning any account(s) with over $10K then no FBAR is required for that year. But the Thai bank that U.S. person (or dual U.S. and XX citizenship) will still be reporting account info under FATCA....actually the Thai bank will provide the info to the Bank of Thailand who in turns consolidates the info from all Thai banks and then provides it to the IRS. There seems to be a gray area under the FATCA due diligence requirements if the banks "must" reports accounts with less than $50K equivalent...amounts less than that may not have to be reported unless the bank just wants to report all such accounts whether they have $1 or $1M or more in them.

I fully expect since the IRS a bureau of the U.S. Treasury Dept there will surely be information/data exchanged to identify folks not reporting/paying tax on taxable income in foreign financial accounts. Like it or not, that's the way it is....call it a downside that comes with dual citizenship sometimes to be balanced against the upside.

[Dillpickles98]

Yes Rama, it seems the info on both the IRS website and U.S. Treasury Dept. website are the same, and the FBAR does not go the IRS, but to the Treasury Dept. When I do have to file FBAR it's only because we file taxes jointly, the funds are held jointly both in the U.S. and here. They even remind you that none of the info required is reported to the IRS.

Since not possible for her to open an account in her married name, (which I would then have to report if the combined total exceeded 10K$) but because she does not hold a "person of the U.S.", or dual citizenship status, or met any of the criteria, from what have read I don't. Until I did this research I was thinking red flags could go up should I transfer $$$ to her U.S. acount then to her Thai account. That I must include her $$$ in Thai name only as combined with our $$$ for FBAR purposes. Apparently I don't, which was my main concern.

Thanks Pib for your input, Yes I read where things could become complicated in those cases particular to dual citizenship, or a jointly owned business if that business is in the U.S. then FBAR reporting falls on the person with signature authority, or all person with it, others involved are not required to fille a separate FBAR but must be included with the filing of the first person.

I hope all this info is useful to any other readers who may have questions, at least know where to find it.

We will be in the U.S. this spring where I will speak with a specialist in this field. Any other input is welcomed.

DP.

[DogNo1]

Why take a chance? Your wife holds a green card and you file your taxes jointly. Maybe it is entertaining to you to try and tease out an exception to the FBAR rule for your wife but why bother? Including her accounts on your FBAR costs you nothing but a few minutes of your time. Leaving her off could potentially cost you quite a lot.

[Dillpickles98]

I suppose you're right, she does not hold a Green Card any longer, as it was invalidated after two yrs. outside the U.S. and was turned in to Homeland Security as a condition of her tourist visa, with signed affidavit stating she must apply all over again should she ever seek another. I'll probably do just as you suggest in the end, the easy way out, just one more entry on the FBAR form, but my curiosity will not be satisfied until I know for sure.

I should know by now, I am great at making problems for myself, where no problem exist until I create one.

Thanks DogNo1 for the touch of reality.

DP

[Pib]

If she is not a U.S. citizen nor holds a green card U.S. FATCA, FBAR requirements do not apply to her for accounts only in her name...and I surely would not be submitting any FBAR with her name anywhere on it.

Now, back to your original post. If you are doing money transfers from her or your U.S. bank account to her Thai bank account that is really not FBAR related. FBAR deals with a U.S. Person who has over $10K in foreign accounts...you wife is no longer a U.S. person (citizen or resident alien) based on what you have said. FBAR does not deal with funds transfers.

Now I'm sure if Uncle Sam feels you are just trying to hide taxable financial assets by putting them in a foreign account in only your foreign spouse's name then he may have something to say about that but it won't be FBAR related it will just be tax evasion related. But for the small amount you seem to be talking about I can't see Uncle Sam getting upset.

Now how you handle your "tax return" is a completely different issue as now you get into the land how your file your tax return...what filing status you can use with a nonresident spouse. Your original post is really a tax return question and not a FBAR question.

[Dillpickles98]

Hi Pib, my wife was a person of U.S., Green Card, Social Security card holder, and spouse of a U.S. citizen so our filing status hasn't changed, according to my tax guy in the U.S. who has been doing our returns for 15 yrs. Just because she is no longer a U.S. person does not negate the fact she is legally married to a citizen living in a foreign country. Same as any married couple living abroad. I tend to agree with you, she has no FBAR requirements.

Doubtful Uncle Sam could consider me trying to hide funds from IRS as the funds are direct deposited from the City of L.A. all income including withdrawal from mutual funds are recorded on W-2's, 1099's, etc. I am certain they check, as the first yr. I retired got notice I had 16K$ of unreported income from disability payments. The company responsible didn't send me that W-2, or it was lost in the mail, however I paid the tax due immediately. Wrote the company and received that paperwork later.

Thinking about it, I would be better off not to deposit $$$ in her Thai account, if I had to report it to FBAR. As many of you may do, I transfer funds here as needs be, usually 3 times a yr. first checking the exchange rate, then optimum amount for the next few months. With say $5,000.00 sitting her bank account for emergencies only, I would be over the 10K$ limit several times a yr. In 6 yrs. I have had to report FBAR twice, because I miss calculated by few $100's.

So I guess you've answered my question along with confirmation, from FBAR questions help desk.

Thanks for letting me tap your knowledge, I hope someone else can find it useful.

offer still stands, all useful replies welcome.

DP.

[hhgz]

"I read where more than ever before wealthy Americans are giving up their citizenship to..."

Yeah, you're correct. The number has exploded to 3000 last year.

[Dillpickles98]

Hi hhgz, May have some impact on tax revenue collected, but given the big tax breaks given Corp. it will absorbed. Don't really know the ramifications of one giving up their citizenship, other than forfeiture of Soc Sec. benefits. Never even considered it. As far as I know, here one can only obtain permanent residency, and no advantages I know of other than no 90 day Imm reporting. at a cost $8,000 or $4,000 if married.

My wealthy buddy who is cheap beyond belief, must have holdings in the U.S. he would lose as he is in no way patriotic, not a vet, never married, and no kids. His life is devoted to protecting his money. But the best friend you could have. Tax time last yr. he asked me of all people how he could avoid his property tax. Of course I had no answer for him, all I ever owned was a few brownstones in Brooklyn in the 70's & 80's.

DP

[Pib]

"I read where more than ever before wealthy Americans are giving up their citizenship to..."

Yeah, you're correct. The number has exploded to 3000 last year.

Yeap, that is correct...approx 3K folks out of approx 330 million Americans...and those 3K folks represents 0.0009% of the population. Plus each year approx 682K immigrants become naturalized U.S. citizens. And most of those 3K folks giving up their U.S. citizenship are folks who have lived most of their lives outside the U.S./deciding to return to their home country vs facing the possibility of paying U.S. taxes. So, I guess when the dust settles we probably should subtract 3K from 682K to get a more accurate of picture of new, naturalized U.S. citizens each year.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states#Naturalization

From a historical perspective, the number of naturalizations has increased dramatically in recent decades. On average, 141,000 LPRs became citizens each year between 1970 and 1979, 205,000 in the 1980s, 498,000 in the 1990s, and 682,000 during the 2000s.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-07/americans-abroad-top-quarterly-record-for-giving-up-citizenship

More Americans living outside the U.S. gave up their citizenship in the first quarter of 2015 than ever before, according to data released Thursday by the IRS.

The 1,335 expatriations topped the previous record by 18 percent, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. Those Americans are driven to turn in their passports in part because of laws that have expanded bank reporting and tax compliance requirements for expatriates.

The increase in early 2015 follows an annual record in 2014, when 3,415 Americans gave up their citizenship.

An estimated 6 million U.S. citizens are living abroad, and the U.S. is the only country within the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development that taxes citizens wherever they reside.

In many cases, those choosing to give up their citizenship have limited connections to the U.S. and have lived outside of the country for most of their lives.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Pib

[JimGant]

(3). The person files a first year election on his income tax return to be treated as a resident alien under IRC 7701(b)4.

OP, the IRS, in their above, has said -- albeit obliquely -- that if you want to treat your non resident alien spouse as a US person for the purposes of filing jointly -- then, yes, she would be subject to filing a FBAR. Normally, this means the issuing of an ITIN to the non resident alien -- but if the NRA has obtained a Social Security number, as is the case with your wife, then she would use that, not an ITIN.

My wife had no income while we were in the U.S. but we do file taxes jointly, of course to reduce my tax liability. Watched the video, it appears I do, (as I have done) have to include her in my FBAR since we file jointly in her married name, but her personal U.S. account is in her Thai maiden name. So if she were to open another Thai account transfers would be from her U.S account to her Thai account in her Thai name only.

Transfers aren't ,by themselves,relevant to filing a FBAR. If she opened an account in Thailand (solely in her name, maiden or married -- makes no difference, as this account would be identified by her SSN in the FBAR) -- and if this account in conjunction with your joint account(s) ever exceeded $10k at any moment during the year, then, yes, she would have to file a FBAR. Now, if you have no individual accounts yourself, then the only FBAR filed need only be hers, with you now becoming the "principal joint account holder" (not the filer), thus your SSN would apply.

Anyway, as others have said, just file the FBAR(s). Not that hard -- in fact Treasury has done a great job streamlining the efiling software. Previously, the biggest problem had been using an outdated version of Adobe Reader.

And, of course, you're reporting all the interest you and the wife are earning in Thailand on your joint 1040 filing. Which means you have to file Schedule B, where you're required to indicate you're familiar with FBAR filing. So, all in all, just file the FBARs -- if you've exceeded the $10k threshold.

[taxout]

No, the OP's wife is presumably not making an election under Section 7701( b )( 4 ). Presumably she's making an election under Section 6013(g), which covers the election by a non-resident alien spouse to be treated as a resident for purposes of Chapters 1 and 24 of the Code.

And surprisingly, perhaps, the introduction to the 2011 FBAR regulations is explicit that a Section 6013(g) election does not make the electing spouse a U.S. resident for FBAR purposes. "FinCEN wishes to clarify that the determination of whether an individual is a United States resident should be made without regard to elections under section 6013(g) or 6013(h) of the Internal Revenue Code."

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2011-02-24/pdf/2011-4048.pdf (see page 10238).

Nonetheless, the OP should note that the obligation to file an FBAR is not -- as he keeps stating -- based solely on the existence of signature authority over a foreign account, but on the existence of EITHER signature authority OR a financial interest in a foreign account. These terms are broadly defined, and depending on the facts, it's possible he could be found to have signature authority or a financial interest in Thai accounts standing in his wife's name.

Myself, I'd file including my wife's accounts if I were the OP, not so much because it's clear there's an obligation to file but simply as a protective measure.

Note that there some complex ways in which those who've given up their citizenship or green cards can still get enmeshed in the U.S. tax system in later years, but I haven't looked at those rules to see whether they create any problem for you.

Finally, in addition to FBAR, there's also Form 8938, which has a higher filing threshold than FBAR, covers more types of foreign assets than FBAR, and is filed with Form 1040. In this case, the rules are clear that a spouse making an election under Section 6013(g) IS required to file Form 8938, when the other filing requirements are met:

"Individuals required to file Form 8938, 'Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets.' For section 6038D purposes, a specified individual is a U.S. citizen, a resident alien of the United States . . . or a nonresident alien who has elected under section 6013(g) or (h) to be taxed as a U.S. resident."

https://www.irs.gov/irb/2012-08_IRB/ar10.html

Edited December 10, 2015 by taxout

[Dillpickles98]

Hi guys, there seems to be different trends of thought on whether or not how we file could affect FBAR. While I have not read the codes of JimGant and taxout, I tend to agree with you both. It seems I should be required to file including my wife's accounts. Given she is a not resident alien, and not a person of U.S. but reduces my tax liability, by the fact we are married, and I claim married filing jointly.

The last time I filed a FBAR was June 2014 for the calendar year of 2013, unfortunately I did not take a screenshot, so I don't remember whether both names were required. I do know the bank account number and the bank were required, that was due to our joint account exceeding 10K$. Upon that filing, instantly I did receive a confirmation of acceptance email.

I have read those special circumstances involving a larger threshold for FBAR filing, but those are our case. Maybe I can clear up some matters by including the exact email as I sent it, and their answer.

To: *SBSE FBAR Form

Subject: Questions of a foreign spouse filing requirement

My wife is a Thai national, she held a U.S. Green Card for four years, then we retired to Thailand. She surrendered her Green Card as it was invalid after two years, outside the U.S. continuously. We have no intentions of ever residing in the U.S. but will return for visits as she now has a 10 year tourist visa.

We have a joint saving account, a checking account only in my name, and her personal saving account, in her maiden name, same as her passport, in a U.S. bank. She holds a CA. I.D. along with a Social Security Card.

We also have a joint saving account, in both our names, and personal accounts of which her's is in her Thai name in a Thai bank. My question is if she transfers funds from her U.S. account to her Thai account must she file the FBAR? She is no longer a resident of the U.S. and I have no signature authority over the accounts, but will effect the transfer as she neither reads or writes English.

In previous FBAR reporting, she has been included as my spouse, as we file taxes jointly, and I am controlling that account in the U.S..

I would like any information before I effect a transfer which would make her filing necessary. As I read the Reference Guide she would not be required to file, but I must be sure, therefore the purpose of my question.

Thank you.

Their answer;

Dear Madan\Sir,

If none of the three criteria listed below applies, then the person is not a US Resident for FBAR purposes. Thus, If one of the criteria applies, and the foreign account(s) exceeds the threshold, a FinCEN Form 114 FBAR is required to be E-filed.

Section 7701(

(1). Green card test ~ individuals who at any time during the calendar year have been lawfully granted the privilege of residing permanently in the U.S. under the immigration laws automatically meet the definition of resident alien and the green card test; or

(2). Individual who are not lawful permanent resident are defined as resident aliens under the Substantial-Presence Test for and meet the specification contained in IRC 7701((3); to meet the Substantial Presence Test for the calendar year (January 1 to December 31), individuals must be physically present in the U.S., for at least 31 days during the current year, and at least 183 days during the three year period that includes the current year and the two immediately preceding years.

The following are exempted individuals ~ do not count days in US (Pub 519)

A or G visa – an individual temporarily present in the US as a foreign government- related

J or Q visa – a teacher or trainee temporarily present in the US who substantially complies with the requirement of the visa

F, J, M or Q visa – a student temporarily present in the US who substantially complies with the requirement of the visa

A professional athlete temporarily present in the US to compete in a charitable event

(3). The person files a first year election on his income tax return to be treated as a resident alien under IRC 7701(b)4.

Wanda Hampton

BSA Tax Law Specialist

I need more time to read the tax codes provide. Any further input from you guys in the know, is welcome until we reach a satisfactory outcome. I must say, I don't really feel retired. Since June 2010, I have been fighting with disability, until I could not longer. Dealing with our banks on both ends. Social Security filed online, separate deposit only account required, and every two yrs. they want proof of life, or suspend pymts. But because they know us, with a long history at BKK Bank, they let my wife do any transaction. A "Will" in both Thai and English, where to send her survivor benefits, etc. and what's her tax liability and responsibility should go to the great beyond first.

Realizing this may seem like a minor decision, and safe side would be to file it is perplexing. Just have to keep better booking records. Seem everyone is leaning toward filing regardless. OK I'm with that. Have had history with the IRS, not all good. Which Iis why I want as little to do with any govt. entity.

Once again thanks guys.

DP.

Edited December 10, 2015 by Dillpickles98

[Dillpickles98]

Thanks guys for your knowledge, and time spent in my quest for whether, or not I would be required to file a FBAR for my wife. We do met the criteria in #3. IRC 7701(. Which states since we did filed jointly that first year, she will be considered a person of the U.S. whether nonresident or resident forever, unless I change our filing status.

Therefore, if me, she, or combined exceed the 10K$ limit we must file, regardless of what lastname she uses. As her Soc. Sec # is reported on our tax filing.

DP.